Joined: Dec 28, 2007
Posts: 11393
Location: Jersey City, World's Greatest City
Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:23 pm
Del wrote:
Thoth wrote:
Bigwill wrote:
In the new translation of the Mass, the Nicene Creed will be spoken as a community of individuals ('I believe') rather than as a mere community ('We believe').
This is a MOMENTOUS change, especially for Joe Pewsitter who hasn't spent much time studying the faith (or the Creed).
Forgive the interloping but why do you see this as significant?
I've seen arguments for both the "I" and the "We" for the creed used liturgically. and they strike me as opposite side of the same coin. Though I do understand the the need the for "I believe.." type liturgical responses.
This is significant because the modern, squishy, cafeteria-Catholic can too comfortably sit himself behind the concept of "we." "The Catholic Church teaches
x,
and I am comfortable with my opinion on
x + some liberties - some challenging parts.
But I'm still a good Catholic, because we believe
x.
"
The change in the Creed to an accurate translation of
Credo
will hopefully lead to a few sermons on taking personal ownership of what my Church believes. Hopefully.
The original translation, back in the early 70's, was marked by the spirit of the era -- when emphasis was on "community" and "inclusion" and the "all-together-ness" of churchy things. That mood is passed.
Okay, I was curious because with in the Coptic rite at the start the Liturgy of the Faithful the creed is prayed starting with "We believe..." indicating those who are now attending are of the believers, i.e. the baptised a carry over from the early church liturgy where the catechumen were made to leave after the Liturgy of the Word and also had no right to pray either "The Lord's Prayer" or "Creed" until baptised. Thanks.
_________________ "Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III
wosbald What's the funny part?
Joined: Feb 26, 2008
Posts: 12532
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:42 pm
+JMJ+
Thoth wrote:
Del wrote:
Thoth wrote:
Bigwill wrote:
In the new translation of the Mass, the Nicene Creed will be spoken as a community of individuals ('I believe') rather than as a mere community ('We believe').
This is a MOMENTOUS change, especially for Joe Pewsitter who hasn't spent much time studying the faith (or the Creed).
Forgive the interloping but why do you see this as significant?
I've seen arguments for both the "I" and the "We" for the creed used liturgically. and they strike me as opposite side of the same coin. Though I do understand the the need the for "I believe.." type liturgical responses.
This is significant because the modern, squishy, cafeteria-Catholic can too comfortably sit himself behind the concept of "we." "The Catholic Church teaches
x,
and I am comfortable with my opinion on
x + some liberties - some challenging parts.
But I'm still a good Catholic, because we believe
x.
"
The change in the Creed to an accurate translation of
Credo
will hopefully lead to a few sermons on taking personal ownership of what my Church believes. Hopefully.
The original translation, back in the early 70's, was marked by the spirit of the era -- when emphasis was on "community" and "inclusion" and the "all-together-ness" of churchy things. That mood is passed.
Okay, I was curious because with in the Coptic rite at the start the Liturgy of the Faithful the creed is prayed starting with "We believe..." indicating those who are now attending are of the believers, i.e. the baptised a carry over from the early church liturgy where the catechumen were made to leave after the Liturgy of the Word and also had no right to pray either "The Lord's Prayer" or "Creed" until baptised. Thanks.
It has to do with the purpose behind the changes. In isolation, some, maybe even most, of the Novus Ordo changes could have an argument made on their behalf. But when you add them all up and mix liberally with the spirit of Vat II, it was devastating.
_________________ "In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima
Del Crosby's squeeze toy
Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 23978
Location: Madison, WI
Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:47 pm
This is a clock, with images of all twelve popes named
Pius
(I suppose they would be the "Popes Pii")
This is how the clock looks on a typical Catholic wall:
_________________ This is a chastisement from God.
It is no longer Democrats v. Republicans; it's the Ruling Class v. the Rest of Us.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners...
Rainman498 Brother of the Briar
Joined: Apr 28, 2011
Posts: 970
Location: St. Joseph, MO
_________________ "I don't understand how you can call yourself a Christian and lead such an idle, useless life. Have you forgotten Christ's life of toil?" - St. Josemaria Escriva
That's a real shock. I might need a whole half of a second to recover from that.
If you can stomach reading the remarks after the article, you'll find that the commentors on the
Washington Post
forum are enlighteningly clueless.
The secular persecutions have started, and we're first in line.
_________________ This is a chastisement from God.
It is no longer Democrats v. Republicans; it's the Ruling Class v. the Rest of Us.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners...
Hovannes one lone Wollensak
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Posts: 11245
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Posts: 11245
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley
Posted:
Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:43 pm
The Diocese of Orange bought the Chrystal Cathederal!
Apparently they were jealous over tasteless cathederal in Los Angeles and likely wanted to show them that when it comes to tacky architecture, Orange is a force with which to be reckoned!
God help the church in California!
Del Crosby's squeeze toy
Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 23978
Location: Madison, WI
Posted:
Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:48 pm
Hovannes wrote:
The Diocese of Orange bought the Chrystal Cathederal!
Apparently they were jealous over tasteless cathederal in Los Angeles and likely wanted to show them that when it comes to tacky architecture, Orange is a force with which to be reckoned!
God help the church in California!
That is heinous.
Can that Evangelical idol to iconoclasm even be wreckovated?
_________________ This is a chastisement from God.
It is no longer Democrats v. Republicans; it's the Ruling Class v. the Rest of Us.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners...
Hovannes one lone Wollensak
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Posts: 11245
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley
Posted:
Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:12 pm
Del wrote:
Hovannes wrote:
The Diocese of Orange bought the Chrystal Cathederal!
Apparently they were jealous over tasteless cathederal in Los Angeles and likely wanted to show them that when it comes to tacky architecture, Orange is a force with which to be reckoned!
God help the church in California!
That is heinous.
Can that Evangelical idol to iconoclasm even be wreckovated?
Well, if it were green it would bear an uncanny resemblence to the Emerald City. Perhaps the Diocese of Orange is playing the munchkin card?
Rainman498 Brother of the Briar
Joined: Apr 28, 2011
Posts: 970
Location: St. Joseph, MO
Posted:
Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:34 am
I really prefer the old school Gothic look, myself.
_________________ "I don't understand how you can call yourself a Christian and lead such an idle, useless life. Have you forgotten Christ's life of toil?" - St. Josemaria Escriva
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Posts: 11245
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley
Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:07 pm
Is Bosco more Catholic (for the obvious reason) than Ovaltine?
Del Crosby's squeeze toy
Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 23978
Location: Madison, WI
Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:28 pm
I have been waiting for the three-and-a-half years, for the corrected translation of the Mass.
It is finally here, this Sunday, the First Sunday of Advent, 2011.
WHOO-HOO!
_________________ This is a chastisement from God.
It is no longer Democrats v. Republicans; it's the Ruling Class v. the Rest of Us.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners...
tobacco_tenderfoot Minister of Forward-slashing
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
Posts: 2062
Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:26 pm
Went to the local Catholic Bookstore to pick up a Daily Missal.
Me: I'm shocked that you guys still have these in stock.
Clerk: Well we just got a new shipment in, some people are waiting for the burgundy ones, and some want the editions that just have English with them and no Latin.
Me: Latin is fine with me, maybe I'll even learn some Latin one day.
Customer hanging out at register: [Starts saying something in Latin I don't understand]
Me: Well I'm way far away from that. I just came into the Church last spring.
Customer: Well you missed a lot then.
Me: That's what I hear.
Clerk: Well they are starting to move back to some of the Latin
Customer: I've missed the Latin, I wish we'd go back to it. Vatican II was like cutting our own throats. The whole world would be a better place if the 60's and 70's never happened.
Me: This is a story of a friend of a friend type thing, but I knew someone who was talking to an older priest that said they used to hold mass with a cheeseburger and pop.
Customer: Well all those guys are dead or dying now.
Me: It will be interesting to see where the Church goes in the next few years.
[Group agreement and small talk]
Wos - Did I just meet your dad? It was at St. Clarence bookstore in North Olmsted.
_________________ Involuntary ignorance is not charged against you as a fault; but your fault is this---you neglect to inquire into the things you are ignorant of. -St. Augustine-
colton Spiffy Enough
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Posts: 7830
Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:10 pm
tobacco_tenderfoot wrote:
Customer: The whole world would be a better place if the 60's and 70's never happened.
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