A Question from the Cellar

Questions, Reviews, Storage, Etc.
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John-Boy
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by John-Boy » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:22 pm

FredS wrote:
Rusty wrote:
Del wrote:
FredS wrote:This quintessential Del. He says it aint rocket science then he writes a bunch of sciencey procedural steps to follow.
Simple stuff is science too.

The trivia is fun. Just don't take it all so seriously.
He's disciplining you, gently. FredS has a style for his stories about how things work and how they should work. It's compelling even though he knows little about tobacco, less about astronomy, etc. He'd like you to do the same. I especially liked his denial of American culture and the only pipe shape that qualifies as American. It's compelling even though he is wrong.
Oh dear. Rusty makes me sound kind of . . .Kerdyish. If I ever go off the deep end (or even get close really), please give me a Pope Slap. I'm giving you all permission right now to do that.

And you're free to slap me if you ever see me wearing pajama pants to Walmart too.
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Del
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Del » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:24 pm

John-Boy wrote:I store everything in cottage cheese containers.

1) Get a large or small curd cottage cheese container
2) Eat or dump about about 1/2 the cottage cheese
3) Dump in your tobacco
4) Close up and return to the fridge
That's called Wisconsin Cavendish.
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by FredS » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:26 pm

Del wrote:
John-Boy wrote:I store everything in cottage cheese containers.

1) Get a large or small curd cottage cheese container
2) Eat or dump about about 1/2 the cottage cheese
3) Dump in your tobacco
4) Close up and return to the fridge
That's called Wisconsin Cavendish.
I think we've finally discovered a tobacco worthy of a corn cob pipe.
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Irish-Dane
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Irish-Dane » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:32 pm

FredS wrote:
Del wrote:
John-Boy wrote:I store everything in cottage cheese containers.

1) Get a large or small curd cottage cheese container
2) Eat or dump about about 1/2 the cottage cheese
3) Dump in your tobacco
4) Close up and return to the fridge
That's called Wisconsin Cavendish.
I think we've finally discovered a tobacco worthy of a corn cob pipe.
No. And no.
It's not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body. --Colton

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Pepik » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:47 pm

Irish-Dane wrote:
FredS wrote:
Del wrote:
John-Boy wrote:I store everything in cottage cheese containers.

1) Get a large or small curd cottage cheese container
2) Eat or dump about about 1/2 the cottage cheese
3) Dump in your tobacco
4) Close up and return to the fridge
That's called Wisconsin Cavendish.
I think we've finally discovered a tobacco worthy of a corn cob pipe.
Yes. And Hells Yes.
Fixed it for you.
Rgrds,
Joe


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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Irish-Dane » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:47 pm

Pepik wrote:
Irish-Dane wrote:
FredS wrote:
Del wrote:
John-Boy wrote:I store everything in cottage cheese containers.

1) Get a large or small curd cottage cheese container
2) Eat or dump about about 1/2 the cottage cheese
3) Dump in your tobacco
4) Close up and return to the fridge
That's called Wisconsin Cavendish.
I think we've finally discovered a tobacco worthy of a corn cob pipe.
Yes. And Hells Yes.
Fixed it for you.
There it is.
It's not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body. --Colton

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by coco » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:51 pm

Irish-Dane wrote:
Pepik wrote:
Irish-Dane wrote:
FredS wrote:
Del wrote:
John-Boy wrote:I store everything in cottage cheese containers.

1) Get a large or small curd cottage cheese container
2) Eat or dump about about 1/2 the cottage cheese
3) Dump in your tobacco
4) Close up and return to the fridge
That's called Wisconsin Cavendish.
I think we've finally discovered a tobacco worthy of a corn cob pipe.
Yes. And Hells Yes.
Fixed it for you.
There it is.
Image
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by coco » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:52 pm

Pepik wrote:
coco wrote:I vacuum seal, but I'm a weirdo.
I do too. I'm using the same hockey-puck jar lid sealer with the attachment hose off my VaccuSeal machine. Works fine as far as I've seen in terms of popping the lids on 'baccy I've laid up, and finding it enjoyable.
Click the link above for an explanation.
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by MrPiper » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:12 pm

xxxxxx
Last edited by MrPiper on Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Irish-Dane » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:35 pm

I'm with you Piper. I've heard a lot of stuff over the years about only being able to cellar Aro's for a max of five years, but I've had a few jars of Blue Diamond keep for 7 or 8 years with no issue. It certainly has nothing on aged VA's, but still surpassed the previous expectations laid out.
It's not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body. --Colton

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Haroldt » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:00 pm

coco wrote:I vacuum seal, but I'm a weirdo.
Silly me - I just noticed the link in your post. I'll check it out.
Mr T

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by StatHaldol » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:12 pm

Haroldt wrote:
StatHaldol wrote:We smoke about the same amount Harold. I keep mine in different sized mason jars.
do you mean that you transfer it to a smaller jar; or are you saying that you cellar in small jars fro the get-go?
I just cellar in jars from the start. I haven't noticed any change in flavor over a couple of years. I do have some English I keep on the patio outside. It's in a regular tin with a plastic lid. I have noticed the change in taste over a couple of months, but the change is pleasant to me.
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Haroldt » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:03 pm

First off let me thank all of you that have given me your thoughts.

Let me ask, since Coco and others use a vacuum sealer. I do have a food saver. Any reason while I could not use it with the heavey plastic food saver bags? Those units will most certainly suck all the air out and lay down a solid seal.

Others in the past have suggested they be concerned of the use of plastic. I'm not sure that's an issue.

Your thoughts?
Mr T

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Rusty » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:15 pm

StatHaldol wrote:
Haroldt wrote:
StatHaldol wrote:We smoke about the same amount Harold. I keep mine in different sized mason jars.
do you mean that you transfer it to a smaller jar; or are you saying that you cellar in small jars fro the get-go?
I just cellar in jars from the start. I haven't noticed any change in flavor over a couple of years. I do have some English I keep on the patio outside. It's in a regular tin with a plastic lid. I have noticed the change in taste over a couple of months, but the change is pleasant to me.
He's asking about the size of your jars. Are you determined not to share that info?
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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by saltedplug » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:24 am

Tobacco is an organic substance, albeit curing arrests its rate of decay.
It's slow and steady decay is also called fermentation.
The organic changes wrought by fermentation that are prized by smokers is called aging.
It ferments inside any aging vessel, but Ball/Mason jars with the ring and top seal the most dependably. Still, rings may loosen, so periodically checking them is important.
I would never trust a spaghetti jar designed to seal only once with my tobacco. Some of you may have had fine results doing so, but why risk expensive tobacco that you are going to age to a jar that is only designed to seal once? Mason jars aren’t expensive.
Everything that I've read insists that vacuum bags do not provide optimal aging. I bought a 10 y/o bag of Two Friends "Redwood" that had deteriorated, not aged.
Tobacco ferments differently in the presence or absence of oxygen. GL Pease stated the issue repeatedly in the early 2000s but then stopped doing so; but at that time he favored anaerobic aging.
Occasionally he still says so now. Now he says that with or without air, both are good, just different.
My point is however that if we take a sealed tin as the paragon of aging, we don’t do so with the understanding that it has been opened and resealed during the aging. To evaluate this tobacco we always want to know how long it’s been sealed.
Thus much of what we think we know is based on anaerobic aging.
When tobacco is sealed a certain amount of air is in the vessel. The aging that occurs is aerobic until it is gone and then becomes anaerobic, which continues until it is opened.
My money then is on anaerobic aging as this is what has occurred with the products whose aging has been described by those who spend money on vintage tobacco. Often they call the results sublime.
I haven’t smoked aged tobacco that I would call sublime, but I would call it quite good.
If one intends to age, I would think we would want to reproduce the conditions that typically effect aging.
That means that no, it’s not a good practice to open a jar and dig out two ounces for immediate smoking pleasure. This is tobacco storage, not aging.
Why make the tobacco in which you have invested cash and think you are aging it but force it to cycle through aerobic and anaerobic phases when the results of aging that have been identified as worth the wait have been wrought by prolonged anaerobic aging?
Guys who age typically have no dearth of tobacco on hand that they are storing. Why not smoke that?
I have three pounds of Haddos aging, and I won’t open the first canister until 2017. With this tobacco, the wait is well worth the while.
Finally, the melding and smoothing of aged tobacco are not favored by all. A clerk in a liquor store told me he’s drank some 20 y/o whiskey so different that it didn’t resemble fresh stock.
He didn’t like it. You might not like aged tobacco, either.

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by Haroldt » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:46 pm

Mike - thanks for the insight. I guess I need to get some more mason jars.
Mr T

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by saltedplug » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:18 pm

You're welcome.

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Re: A Question from the Cellar

Post by plainview » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:40 pm

saltedplug wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:24 am
Tobacco is an organic substance, albeit curing arrests its rate of decay.
It's slow and steady decay is also called fermentation.
The organic changes wrought by fermentation that are prized by smokers is called aging.
It ferments inside any aging vessel, but Ball/Mason jars with the ring and top seal the most dependably. Still, rings may loosen, so periodically checking them is important.
I would never trust a spaghetti jar designed to seal only once with my tobacco. Some of you may have had fine results doing so, but why risk expensive tobacco that you are going to age to a jar that is only designed to seal once? Mason jars aren’t expensive.
Everything that I've read insists that vacuum bags do not provide optimal aging. I bought a 10 y/o bag of Two Friends "Redwood" that had deteriorated, not aged.
Tobacco ferments differently in the presence or absence of oxygen. GL Pease stated the issue repeatedly in the early 2000s but then stopped doing so; but at that time he favored anaerobic aging.
Occasionally he still says so now. Now he says that with or without air, both are good, just different.
My point is however that if we take a sealed tin as the paragon of aging, we don’t do so with the understanding that it has been opened and resealed during the aging. To evaluate this tobacco we always want to know how long it’s been sealed.
Thus much of what we think we know is based on anaerobic aging.
When tobacco is sealed a certain amount of air is in the vessel. The aging that occurs is aerobic until it is gone and then becomes anaerobic, which continues until it is opened.
My money then is on anaerobic aging as this is what has occurred with the products whose aging has been described by those who spend money on vintage tobacco. Often they call the results sublime.
I haven’t smoked aged tobacco that I would call sublime, but I would call it quite good.
If one intends to age, I would think we would want to reproduce the conditions that typically effect aging.
That means that no, it’s not a good practice to open a jar and dig out two ounces for immediate smoking pleasure. This is tobacco storage, not aging.
Why make the tobacco in which you have invested cash and think you are aging it but force it to cycle through aerobic and anaerobic phases when the results of aging that have been identified as worth the wait have been wrought by prolonged anaerobic aging?
Guys who age typically have no dearth of tobacco on hand that they are storing. Why not smoke that?
I have three pounds of Haddos aging, and I won’t open the first canister until 2017. With this tobacco, the wait is well worth the while.
Finally, the melding and smoothing of aged tobacco are not favored by all. A clerk in a liquor store told me he’s drank some 20 y/o whiskey so different that it didn’t resemble fresh stock.
He didn’t like it. You might not like aged tobacco, either.
How was the Haddos after a few years?

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