THE ORTHODOX THREAD

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by serapion » Sun May 17, 2015 12:22 pm

DepartedLight wrote:In Raleigh there several Orthodox communities. I am interested in these 2:

All Saints Antiochian Orthodox Church

and

St. Mary Coptic Orthodox Church
Hopefully you know this already but:
All Saints would be part of the Antiochian archdiocese. Based in Syria/Lebanon (thus under much persecution in the Middle East), the US organization famously welcomed a group of about 2000 evangelicals, former Campus Crusade people about 20 years ago (IIRC - going from memory on the stats so be nice to me.) The Antiochians along with the Greeks and the Russians (OCA), are part of a larger Assembly of Bishops in North America seeking visible unity among the Orthodox in the US.

St Mary would be one of the Oriental Orthodox, based in Egypt, also under much persecution. The Christians beheaded recently by ISIS in Libya were nearly all Coptic. Thoth is your best source here and I defer to him.

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Thoth » Mon May 18, 2015 6:10 am

DepartedLight wrote:In Raleigh there several Orthodox communities. I am interested in these 2:

All Saints Antiochian Orthodox Church

and

St. Mary Coptic Orthodox Church
I know its a bit of a hike from Raleigh but I personally know the priest, Fr. Angelos, in Archangel Raphael $ St. John the Beloved in Chapel Hill. http://chapelhillcoptic.net/dnn/

He would be a good person to talk to since he used to run a catechumen class for converts in Boston, where I served with him. So he would be familiar with soime questions/concerns you might have as an inquirer.

Also feel free to ask me anything.

Like Serapion stated each belongs to a different branch of the Orthodox family of churches, while are overall theology is the same. There are subtle (and occasionally not so subtle) differences how approach and define certain things. Also there are the not quite tangible differences, where an Antiochian parish will tend to be a bit more Americanized culturally than a Coptic one because they have had a presence in the US for much longer 100+ years whereas we only have had one for 45 or so years (but this can differ widely from parish to parish). Also we currently are going through the growing pains that such a cultural shift brings about which the Antiochians have already gone through.

But since both have middle eastern roots the food will be amazing we know how to feast. ;)
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Brigid » Tue May 19, 2015 6:29 pm

True story about the food. And the warmth of the people.
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Del » Tue May 19, 2015 6:48 pm

Brigid wrote:True story about the food. And the warmth of the people.
Yep.

The Catholic bishop of Madison hosts the Coptic Christians in our area.... they use a chapel in the Catholic chancery for Divine Liturgy, then enjoy their fellowship dinner in a hospitality area.

I was visiting the office for some reason on a Sunday, and stumbled upon the fellowship luncheon. Warm and friendly and generous doesn't begin to scratch the surface.

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by OldWorldSwine » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:02 pm

Help me out, here; I'm Roman Catholic, and I'm not interested in conversion, but I might be visiting an Orthodox church (OCA) soon and I'm just wondering if there is any problem with this either from the Catholic or Orthodox side. Am I correct that different Orthodox communities will be more/less open and welcoming to this sort of thing? Of course, I plan to check with my own priest first.

I assume I cannot receive the Lord in the Sacrament. Anything else I ought to know?
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Brigid » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:27 pm

OldWorldSwine wrote:Help me out, here; I'm Roman Catholic, and I'm not interested in conversion, but I might be visiting an Orthodox church (OCA) soon and I'm just wondering if there is any problem with this either from the Catholic or Orthodox side. Am I correct that different Orthodox communities will be more/less open and welcoming to this sort of thing? Of course, I plan to check with my own priest first.

I assume I cannot receive the Lord in the Sacrament. Anything else I ought to know?

Welcome! Visiting is 100% awesome; definitely don't take Communion. Generally people are warm and friendly and delighted to have more folks to feed. Some places are baffled by guests, but rarely are guests unwelcome. Ethnic communities are sometimes like, "Why are you here? Are you Greek? Are you sure you're not Greek? Festival is next week." And, sometimes they welcome you in with open arms and feed you til your belt breaks. It just depends. OCA churches tend to be a little more friendly in my experience, but at my old parish everybody was faceblind so nobody welcomed new people because they genuinely couldn't tell if they were new.

Things to know...if the priest is out of the altar, please stand up. Stand (without walking around) for the Gospel reading. There's generally a lot of standing, a lot of chanting, a lot of incense, a lot of kissing things (crosses, icons, priest's hand, occasionally grandmothers and babies). You're welcome to kiss all those things, but don't kiss grannies unless they go to kiss you first (Russian style—thrice on the cheeks). If somebody hands you bread, eat it. It's blessed but not consecrated.

Also there's this: 12 Things I Wish I'd Known Before Visiting An Orthodox Church

Which OCA church? Where?
Delight yourself also in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Skip » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:34 am

Brigid wrote:
OldWorldSwine wrote:Help me out, here; I'm Roman Catholic, and I'm not interested in conversion, but I might be visiting an Orthodox church (OCA) soon and I'm just wondering if there is any problem with this either from the Catholic or Orthodox side. Am I correct that different Orthodox communities will be more/less open and welcoming to this sort of thing? Of course, I plan to check with my own priest first.

I assume I cannot receive the Lord in the Sacrament. Anything else I ought to know?

Welcome! Visiting is 100% awesome; definitely don't take Communion. Generally people are warm and friendly and delighted to have more folks to feed. Some places are baffled by guests, but rarely are guests unwelcome. Ethnic communities are sometimes like, "Why are you here? Are you Greek? Are you sure you're not Greek? Festival is next week." And, sometimes they welcome you in with open arms and feed you til your belt breaks. It just depends. OCA churches tend to be a little more friendly in my experience, but at my old parish everybody was faceblind so nobody welcomed new people because they genuinely couldn't tell if they were new.

Things to know...if the priest is out of the altar, please stand up. Stand (without walking around) for the Gospel reading. There's generally a lot of standing, a lot of chanting, a lot of incense, a lot of kissing things (crosses, icons, priest's hand, occasionally grandmothers and babies). You're welcome to kiss all those things, but don't kiss grannies unless they go to kiss you first (Russian style—thrice on the cheeks). If somebody hands you bread, eat it. It's blessed but not consecrated.

Also there's this: 12 Things I Wish I'd Known Before Visiting An Orthodox Church

Which OCA church? Where?
That was a great thing to read.
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Thoth » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:14 am

Brigid wrote:
OldWorldSwine wrote:Help me out, here; I'm Roman Catholic, and I'm not interested in conversion, but I might be visiting an Orthodox church (OCA) soon and I'm just wondering if there is any problem with this either from the Catholic or Orthodox side. Am I correct that different Orthodox communities will be more/less open and welcoming to this sort of thing? Of course, I plan to check with my own priest first.

I assume I cannot receive the Lord in the Sacrament. Anything else I ought to know?

Welcome! Visiting is 100% awesome; definitely don't take Communion. Generally people are warm and friendly and delighted to have more folks to feed. Some places are baffled by guests, but rarely are guests unwelcome. Ethnic communities are sometimes like, "Why are you here? Are you Greek? Are you sure you're not Greek? Festival is next week." And, sometimes they welcome you in with open arms and feed you til your belt breaks. It just depends. OCA churches tend to be a little more friendly in my experience, but at my old parish everybody was faceblind so nobody welcomed new people because they genuinely couldn't tell if they were new.

Things to know...if the priest is out of the altar, please stand up. Stand (without walking around) for the Gospel reading. There's generally a lot of standing, a lot of chanting, a lot of incense, a lot of kissing things (crosses, icons, priest's hand, occasionally grandmothers and babies). You're welcome to kiss all those things, but don't kiss grannies unless they go to kiss you first (Russian style—thrice on the cheeks). If somebody hands you bread, eat it. It's blessed but not consecrated.

Also there's this: 12 Things I Wish I'd Known Before Visiting An Orthodox Church

Which OCA church? Where?
If confused with what to do just follow the cue of those around you (especially during the Kiss of Peace, each jurisdiction is a little different in how they do it (Armenians will actually kiss on the cheek which caught my dad off guard when some lady kissed him on the cheek when we visit an Armenian parish)) They stand you stand, they sit you sit (though there is precious little sitting during Orthodox liturgies) et c..

Also if look ethnic (kind of like you belong) people may not approach to welcome you just because you look like you belong. Also feel free to approach people after liturgy and talk to them and ask them stuff.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Del » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:16 am

Skip wrote:
Brigid wrote:
OldWorldSwine wrote:Help me out, here; I'm Roman Catholic, and I'm not interested in conversion, but I might be visiting an Orthodox church (OCA) soon and I'm just wondering if there is any problem with this either from the Catholic or Orthodox side. Am I correct that different Orthodox communities will be more/less open and welcoming to this sort of thing? Of course, I plan to check with my own priest first.

I assume I cannot receive the Lord in the Sacrament. Anything else I ought to know?

Welcome! Visiting is 100% awesome; definitely don't take Communion. Generally people are warm and friendly and delighted to have more folks to feed. Some places are baffled by guests, but rarely are guests unwelcome. Ethnic communities are sometimes like, "Why are you here? Are you Greek? Are you sure you're not Greek? Festival is next week." And, sometimes they welcome you in with open arms and feed you til your belt breaks. It just depends. OCA churches tend to be a little more friendly in my experience, but at my old parish everybody was faceblind so nobody welcomed new people because they genuinely couldn't tell if they were new.

Things to know...if the priest is out of the altar, please stand up. Stand (without walking around) for the Gospel reading. There's generally a lot of standing, a lot of chanting, a lot of incense, a lot of kissing things (crosses, icons, priest's hand, occasionally grandmothers and babies). You're welcome to kiss all those things, but don't kiss grannies unless they go to kiss you first (Russian style—thrice on the cheeks). If somebody hands you bread, eat it. It's blessed but not consecrated.

Also there's this: 12 Things I Wish I'd Known Before Visiting An Orthodox Church

Which OCA church? Where?
That was a great thing to read.
I can echo that Brigid speaks truly: This is how the Orthodox behave in their natural state.

In my case, I had some business to visit the chancery (the diocesan business offices, which has classrooms, a social hall, and a couple of chapels.) on a Sunday. Passing through the dinning hall, I stumbled upon a very ethnic group. It was the Coptic community of Madison, enjoying their weekly potluck fellowship after their Divine Liturgy.

I must have had writing all over my face saying, "Who are you, and why are you here?" Upon learning they were Copts, of course I had to mention my friend Thoth. I think I mentioned that Peter was very generous with sharing samples of pipe tobacco when I was first learning the art. Apparently this was the wrong thing to say, as if I were daring them to display great generosity. I barely got away without having to eat a second lunch!

Father insisted that I must take a generous portion of bread, which he broke from a beautifully formed loaf. Father carefully explained was "blessed, as part of our Liturgy. It is not Consecrated, but it is blessed." It was also delicious. Like a bagel.
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Brigid » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:20 pm

Del wrote:
Skip wrote:
Brigid wrote:
OldWorldSwine wrote:Help me out, here; I'm Roman Catholic, and I'm not interested in conversion, but I might be visiting an Orthodox church (OCA) soon and I'm just wondering if there is any problem with this either from the Catholic or Orthodox side. Am I correct that different Orthodox communities will be more/less open and welcoming to this sort of thing? Of course, I plan to check with my own priest first.

I assume I cannot receive the Lord in the Sacrament. Anything else I ought to know?

Welcome! Visiting is 100% awesome; definitely don't take Communion. Generally people are warm and friendly and delighted to have more folks to feed. Some places are baffled by guests, but rarely are guests unwelcome. Ethnic communities are sometimes like, "Why are you here? Are you Greek? Are you sure you're not Greek? Festival is next week." And, sometimes they welcome you in with open arms and feed you til your belt breaks. It just depends. OCA churches tend to be a little more friendly in my experience, but at my old parish everybody was faceblind so nobody welcomed new people because they genuinely couldn't tell if they were new.

Things to know...if the priest is out of the altar, please stand up. Stand (without walking around) for the Gospel reading. There's generally a lot of standing, a lot of chanting, a lot of incense, a lot of kissing things (crosses, icons, priest's hand, occasionally grandmothers and babies). You're welcome to kiss all those things, but don't kiss grannies unless they go to kiss you first (Russian style—thrice on the cheeks). If somebody hands you bread, eat it. It's blessed but not consecrated.

Also there's this: 12 Things I Wish I'd Known Before Visiting An Orthodox Church

Which OCA church? Where?
That was a great thing to read.
I can echo that Brigid speaks truly: This is how the Orthodox behave in their natural state.

In my case, I had some business to visit the chancery (the diocesan business offices, which has classrooms, a social hall, and a couple of chapels.) on a Sunday. Passing through the dinning hall, I stumbled upon a very ethnic group. It was the Coptic community of Madison, enjoying their weekly potluck fellowship after their Divine Liturgy.

I must have had writing all over my face saying, "Who are you, and why are you here?" Upon learning they were Copts, of course I had to mention my friend Thoth. I think I mentioned that Peter was very generous with sharing samples of pipe tobacco when I was first learning the art. Apparently this was the wrong thing to say, as if I were daring them to display great generosity. I barely got away without having to eat a second lunch!

Father insisted that I must take a generous portion of bread, which he broke from a beautifully formed loaf. Father carefully explained was "blessed, as part of our Liturgy. It is not Consecrated, but it is blessed." It was also delicious. Like a bagel.
The Copts have the best bread and the cutest babies.
Delight yourself also in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Thoth » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:31 pm

Egyptians are a bread culture after all... (and I was cute as a baby :wink: )

Though there is a bit of etiquette with eating the blessed bread distributed after liturgy. Never bite into it directly but break off bite size piece with your hand and put it into your mouth. Unless you get a small piece then just pop the whole thing into your mouth.
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by UncleBob » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:34 pm

Thoth wrote:Egyptians are a bread culture after all... (and I was cute as a baby :wink: )

Though there is a bit of etiquette with eating the blessed bread distributed after liturgy. Never bite into it directly but break off bite size piece with your hand and put it into your mouth. Unless you get a small piece then just pop the whole thing into your mouth.
Oooo... deal breaker: I'm a biter.
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:36 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thoth wrote:Egyptians are a bread culture after all... (and I was cute as a baby :wink: )

Though there is a bit of etiquette with eating the blessed bread distributed after liturgy. Never bite into it directly but break off bite size piece with your hand and put it into your mouth. Unless you get a small piece then just pop the whole thing into your mouth.
That's plain good manners anywhere. One breaks bread, thus the origin of the phrase.

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Thoth » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:27 pm

Figured this thread would as good a place as any to just put things into words which maybe cathartic in its own right or not. Though not sure really how many Orthodox members are still kicking around here. So I made of mention elsewhere at some point I was being eyed for ordination to the priesthood. They way things are playing out it seem an inevitability. I do not have issues with the call per se. I'm at peace with it but yet it scares the crap out of me. Knowing my own flaws and weakness and to be at the altar before the Lord accountable for those entrusted to me, it is a fearsome thing. The question is of when and where, which under normal circumstances is easy enough, except I technically in an area which doesn't belong to any of the north American diocese which technical makes it part of the diocese of the Patriarch for those who knows orthodox church eccleisiology knows this is a bit of an administrative wild west so to speak. So at the moment I have the Bishop of the nearby diocese calling dibs on me (literally) yet has given me no plan, my brother in law who is also a priest is trying to convince him to bring me to his diocese in SoCal. Then there is a church in San Fran which wants me 9i was suggested to them by a local priest here) and I am going out there for the week next week to see if they would be a good fit and a potential place to serve but they are so desperate for priest they almost feel like my ordination for them is a done deal. Praying for guidance and clarity of His will but can't help at times feel like this is a case of no good deed goes unpunished (funnily enough more of close friends have been ordained to the priesthood then not at this point talk about bad company :) )
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Del » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:09 pm

Our Lord paints straight with crooked lines!


We give thanks for your obedience, Peter! The harvest is plenty, and the laborers are so few.


Now... What do we need to do in order to enjoy your ordination? Are you going to tell us where and when?
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:38 pm

Thoth wrote:Figured this thread would as good a place as any to just put things into words which maybe cathartic in its own right or not. Though not sure really how many Orthodox members are still kicking around here. So I made of mention elsewhere at some point I was being eyed for ordination to the priesthood. They way things are playing out it seem an inevitability. I do not have issues with the call per se. I'm at peace with it but yet it scares the crap out of me. Knowing my own flaws and weakness and to be at the altar before the Lord accountable for those entrusted to me, it is a fearsome thing. The question is of when and where, which under normal circumstances is easy enough, except I technically in an area which doesn't belong to any of the north American diocese which technical makes it part of the diocese of the Patriarch for those who knows orthodox church eccleisiology knows this is a bit of an administrative wild west so to speak. So at the moment I have the Bishop of the nearby diocese calling dibs on me (literally) yet has given me no plan, my brother in law who is also a priest is trying to convince him to bring me to his diocese in SoCal. Then there is a church in San Fran which wants me 9i was suggested to them by a local priest here) and I am going out there for the week next week to see if they would be a good fit and a potential place to serve but they are so desperate for priest they almost feel like my ordination for them is a done deal. Praying for guidance and clarity of His will but can't help at times feel like this is a case of no good deed goes unpunished (funnily enough more of close friends have been ordained to the priesthood then not at this point talk about bad company :) )
You certainly have the personality and temperament of an Orthodox priest, Peter. I'm not surprised by any of this. In the last couple of years I really wish you and I could have really talked about stuff, not sure how useful it would have been, but the thought crossed my mind because you do carry the charisma of a spiritual leader. Probably not helpful anyway for a man like myself seemingly destined to be an apostate and heathen or for you, the perpetual man of Christian faith.

If you end up out here I would love to meet you, I wish I could work with you, but I suppose things are just too complicated for that. My youngest son is constantly wanting to go to church. *sigh*

Oh never mind. I really do admire you, Peter. I really do hope the best for you and respect you a great deal. A few years ago I would have asked to be at your ordination.

Good luck.

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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Pepik » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:00 pm

Rgrds,
Joe


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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Brigid » Tue May 31, 2016 1:55 pm

Interesting post about keeping the Paschal season present in our homes. What do y'all do?
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Thoth » Tue May 31, 2016 2:44 pm

Brigid wrote:Interesting post about keeping the Paschal season present in our homes. What do y'all do?
Another thing is just using the paschal greeting through out the season until the Ascension. Its a peeve of mine that people tend to stop using it immediately after the feast

What we do as Copts is not fast (actual forbidden by canon) to fast he Holy 50 days between pascha and Pentecost; and try to finish leftovers from the feast before the Apostles' Fast (we're still working on all the traditional cookies we got).
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Re: THE ORTHODOX THREAD

Post by Brigid » Tue May 31, 2016 3:45 pm

Thoth wrote:
Brigid wrote:Interesting post about keeping the Paschal season present in our homes. What do y'all do?
Another thing is just using the paschal greeting through out the season until the Ascension. Its a peeve of mine that people tend to stop using it immediately after the feast

What we do as Copts is not fast (actual forbidden by canon) to fast he Holy 50 days between pascha and Pentecost; and try to finish leftovers from the feast before the Apostles' Fast (we're still working on all the traditional cookies we got).
The Antiochians skip fasting til Pentecost too, which I'm jealous of. I think it's a fantastic idea, but apparently I'm supposed to obey my bishop or something. *mumbles about Old Country monks being in charge* Actually my bishop's pretty lovely, he insists on cleaning his own apartment because otherwise he "doesn't feel like a monk".

Unrelated funny story time. When my friends were getting married, they had a(nother) Old Country bishop do a hierarchical service. At the end their priest leans over and says, "Your Grace, may they kiss?" And the bishop's eyes lit up and he said, "Ah, yes, yes, they may kiss" and he brings out the icon for them to kiss. After the priest says, "OK, Your Grace, but may they kiss each other?" And the bishop shrugged, in an "oh fine" way.
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