What the hell, Wisconsin?

Where Fellowship and Camaraderie lives: that place where the CPS membership values fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community
User avatar
infidel
kthxbai
kthxbai
Posts: 6267
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm

Post by infidel » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:11 am

Briar_Bowl wrote:As a u*ion man myself, I support their protest. If not for my u*ion & the collective bargaining process, I wouldn't be able to make a descent wage in my line of work. I know what my non-U***n counterparts are making on average, and it's really quite sad. :?
The problem here isn't yoonyuns and collective bargaining, it's public yoonyuns and their unsustainable (i.e. pyramid scheme) defined-benefit pensions, primarily.
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

"One man's saint is another man's infidel." - hugodrax

"Total. Freaking. Win." - Skip

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35996
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Post by Del » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:26 am

Roadmaster wrote:
Del wrote:I've had several people claim that "Big Business bought this election with a bunch of ad campaigns and lies."

Which offends the heck out of me, because I don't think Americans are that stupid.
That's what I think, if the ads didn't work millions of dollars wouldn't be spent on them.
On the other hand, I've never met a person who admits that he was persuaded by a campaign ad.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
7formy1911
Sick of being a butthead
Sick of being a butthead
Posts: 4910
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by 7formy1911 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:49 am

TNLawPiper wrote:
7formy1911 wrote:The government is the driving force behind monopolies and greed. Corporations can only consolidate power and wealth with the government being complicit. Unfettered free market capitalism evens the playing field. Look at GM, Fannie, Freddie... only possible with government intervention and putting rules in place that only help them. Allow freedom in the market place and you will find freedom in our daily choices.
As far as monopolies go, this is the case in some circumstances, but monopolies and oligopolies form when the government ignores the industry, as well. The companies competing against Standard Oil, US Steel, and Microsoft weren't driven out of the market by the government. Corporations have been consolidating power and wealth via both free-market and anti-competitive practices since our government was still in its relative infancy.

But greed? Come on, 7. Greed has been around for all of human history -- long before anything even looking like a government was formed. If anything, governments typically step in to correct the adverse effects caused by greed.

Governments often overreach, and they sometimes hurt the free market by hindering competition, but they're not driving monopolies or greed.
I'm not speaking of greed in the sense of it being caused by government but being driven by government. I certainly would think you would give me more credit than to think I would infer government alone causes greed :wink:

I think that the free market is the best system we have. While it is imperfect I think of it this way: Christ gave us the freedom to choose Him. We can do great harm to ourselves and others by our choices but God has allowed that because He knows only through us choosing Him can we attain salvation. So it is with the free market, let us choose where we put our treasure so that we can do good if we so choose. Our Constitution is an anomaly in the history of man kind since it focuses on limiting the government and maximizing the freedom of its citizens. This has led to American exceptionalism and while we have wandered off course at times God will always correct us with His Providence.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis De Tocqueville

"Speed is fine. Accuracy is final."

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:54 am

7formy1911 wrote:
I think that the free market is the best system we have.
We don't have a free market by any stretch.
Rich Corinthian Leather

User avatar
Cliff
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 4179
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: A Galaxy Far, Far Away
Contact:

Post by Cliff » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:54 am

The problem is the collapsing American Empire and unsustainable cost of simultaneously having 4 wars and military occupations while trying to pay the cost of being the world policeman. We could take care of our own citizens if we chose to do so. The Empire is rapidly collapsing anyway.
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOUR PIPE
What is a rebel?-A man who says No- Albert Camus

"I have set my course for uncharted seas." Paradisio, Canto II, v 9, Dante

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:58 am

infidel wrote:
Briar_Bowl wrote:As a u*ion man myself, I support their protest. If not for my u*ion & the collective bargaining process, I wouldn't be able to make a descent wage in my line of work. I know what my non-U***n counterparts are making on average, and it's really quite sad. :?
The problem here isn't yoonyuns and collective bargaining, it's public yoonyuns and their unsustainable (i.e. pyramid scheme) defined-benefit pensions, primarily.
The Washington Post wrote:The unions have already agreed to the benefit concessions Walker has asked for, as long as he doesn't roll back their bargaining rights. Walker has refused. The sticking point has nothing to do with benefits.
Mind if I ask where you are getting your info?
Rich Corinthian Leather

User avatar
7formy1911
Sick of being a butthead
Sick of being a butthead
Posts: 4910
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by 7formy1911 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:00 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
7formy1911 wrote:
I think that the free market is the best system we have.
We don't have a free market by any stretch.
I would definitely agree with you on that point. I mean that it's there for us to get to but we have strayed so far from the path of the course our founding fathers set for us that they wouldn't recognize our economy at all.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis De Tocqueville

"Speed is fine. Accuracy is final."

User avatar
infidel
kthxbai
kthxbai
Posts: 6267
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm

Post by infidel » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:07 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
infidel wrote:
Briar_Bowl wrote:As a u*ion man myself, I support their protest. If not for my u*ion & the collective bargaining process, I wouldn't be able to make a descent wage in my line of work. I know what my non-U***n counterparts are making on average, and it's really quite sad. :?
The problem here isn't yoonyuns and collective bargaining, it's public yoonyuns and their unsustainable (i.e. pyramid scheme) defined-benefit pensions, primarily.
The Washington Post wrote:The unions have already agreed to the benefit concessions Walker has asked for, as long as he doesn't roll back their bargaining rights. Walker has refused. The sticking point has nothing to do with benefits.
Mind if I ask where you are getting your info?
I get most of my information from Mish. I wasn't speaking specifically about the WI "problem" per se, but about the general "problem" of public yoonyuns throughout the US, and the defined-benefit pension systems being a significant factor in financial crises across the land.
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

"One man's saint is another man's infidel." - hugodrax

"Total. Freaking. Win." - Skip

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:13 pm

7formy1911 wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:
7formy1911 wrote:
I think that the free market is the best system we have.
We don't have a free market by any stretch.
I would definitely agree with you on that point. I mean that it's there for us to get to but we have strayed so far from the path of the course our founding fathers set for us that they wouldn't recognize our economy at all.
There was a push in congress to give Washington a pension. He refused stating once we open up that can of worms where do we stop?
Washington was very wise.

The question as I see it where do we go from here? We cannot get the worms back in the can and start again.
Rich Corinthian Leather

User avatar
7formy1911
Sick of being a butthead
Sick of being a butthead
Posts: 4910
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by 7formy1911 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:21 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
7formy1911 wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:
7formy1911 wrote:
I think that the free market is the best system we have.
We don't have a free market by any stretch.
I would definitely agree with you on that point. I mean that it's there for us to get to but we have strayed so far from the path of the course our founding fathers set for us that they wouldn't recognize our economy at all.
There was a push in congress to give Washington a pension. He refused stating once we open up that can of worms where do we stop?
Washington was very wise.

The question as I see it where do we go from here? We cannot get the worms back in the can and start again.
I think we can get back to a free market economy. It will be a long and difficult journey that must focus on removing entitlements as well as entitlement spending in D.C. and the focus on those programs and moving to fiscal responsibility that starts from the individual and goes all the way to the politicians in D.C. We need men of integrity in the House and Senate, we need men with a sense of morality, we need men who will stand up for the Constitution and its limits placed on the Federal government. Most of all we need to get down on our knees and pray for guidance from God. Written in all of our hearts is a deep seated yearning for freedom. Freedom to follow the path that Christ has etched on all of our hearts. My favorite flag from the Revolutionary War simply says: Appeal to Heaven. That is what we must do.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis De Tocqueville

"Speed is fine. Accuracy is final."

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:22 pm

infidel wrote:
I get most of my information from Mish. I wasn't speaking specifically about the WI "problem" per se, but about the general "problem" of public yoonyuns throughout the US, and the defined-benefit pension systems being a significant factor in financial crises across the land.
A large part of the pension problem is the thieves on wall street who stole the pension money through junk bonds and the like.
Rich Corinthian Leather

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:26 pm

7formy1911 wrote: We need men of integrity in the House and Senate, we need men with a sense of morality
Couldn't agree more with this.
Rich Corinthian Leather

User avatar
7formy1911
Sick of being a butthead
Sick of being a butthead
Posts: 4910
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Indiana

Post by 7formy1911 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:29 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
7formy1911 wrote: We need men of integrity in the House and Senate, we need men with a sense of morality
Couldn't agree more with this.
This starts with us. We can all do this starting now. When we are examples for others it will spread like wildfire. Either the protests and chaos will spread or our example will spread. It's all up to us.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis De Tocqueville

"Speed is fine. Accuracy is final."

User avatar
Briarpatch
Usher
Usher
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Where ever I happen to be.

Re: Seems to me

Post by Briarpatch » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:00 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
Briarpatch wrote:Could it not be said that the Democrat state senators have abandoned their offices by refusing to participate?

Then I say appoint new ones and get on with the thing.

Walker is making a huge mistake by allowing this to drag on.
In your view would we be better off if had only one party the Repubican Party?
I didn't say that.

However,fact is the Democrats that have abandoned their offices. Not Republicans. Democrats have turned it into a one party system. Wisconsin is effectively without senatorial representation in these districts. The gov. should act and take advantage of the situation.

To answer your question about one party rule. No. I think we should keep a minimum number of Democrats around as examples of what America should shun like the plague.

Let me ask you a question...do you seriously think the Democrat Party would hesitate to institute one party Democrat rule ,if they had half a chance? :lol:
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church. (Matthew Ch 16)


Anyone who resists this truth perishes."
-Saint Louis Marie de Montfort (1673-1716)

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Re: Seems to me

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:19 pm

Briarpatch wrote:
Let me ask you a question...do you seriously think the Democrat Party would hesitate to institute one party Democrat rule ,if they had half a chance? :lol:
I'm sure here are some maybe many Dems that would love one party rule. Same could be said of Reps. I don't want one party rule regardless of the party.
Rich Corinthian Leather

User avatar
FredS
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Posts: 19632
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: NoCo (Northern Colorado)

Re: Seems to me

Post by FredS » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:53 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
Briarpatch wrote:Could it not be said that the Democrat state senators have abandoned their offices by refusing to participate?

Then I say appoint new ones and get on with the thing.

Walker is making a huge mistake by allowing this to drag on.
In your view would we be better off if had only one party the Repubican Party?
You didn't ask me RM, but let me take a stab at this one . . .

HELL YES we'd be better off if we only had the Republican party! :wink:
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Re: Seems to me

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:55 pm

FredS wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:
Briarpatch wrote:Could it not be said that the Democrat state senators have abandoned their offices by refusing to participate?

Then I say appoint new ones and get on with the thing.

Walker is making a huge mistake by allowing this to drag on.
In your view would we be better off if had only one party the Repubican Party?
You didn't ask me RM, but let me take a stab at this one . . .

HELL YES we'd be better off if we only had the Republican party! :wink:
I knew better that ask you! :D
Rich Corinthian Leather

User avatar
FredS
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Posts: 19632
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: NoCo (Northern Colorado)

Post by FredS » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:09 pm

BTW folks - This is just the opening round, in just the first state. There will be many "aggrieved" parties in the coming months and years.

Cops & firefighters will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
University students will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Subsidized farmers will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Retirees will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
The mentally ill will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
The guys who mow grass in the park will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Corrections officers will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Paving contractors will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Bridge builders will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Flight controllers will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Garbage collectors will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Parents of state subsidized preschoolers will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
Unemployed workers will feel the pinch of budget cuts.
And taxpayers will feel the pinch of tax increases.

We should expect riots in every state capital as the legislatures face unpopular budget cuts and tax increases. As I said in an earlier post, everybody needs to share this burden. Unfortunately those most dependent upon (or employed by) the government will feel it the most. Being neither, you could take away 20% of my government funded services tomorrow and I'd be OK. But the single mother living in subsidized housing, eating subsidized food, sending her kids to subsidized daycare while she attends state schools on government grants will be hit pretty hard.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

User avatar
Roadmaster
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Ornery one-eyed tick farming weiner dog
Posts: 12695
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Post by Roadmaster » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:23 pm

FredS wrote: But the single mother living in subsidized housing, eating subsidized food, sending her kids to subsidized daycare while she attends state schools on government grants will be hit pretty hard.
Let us not forget all the cats drawing disability who are able to work. I know a couple who ride their motorcycle all over the country, camping out and staying gone for weeks at a time. They take their horses on trail rides and camp out as well.
They both draw disability because they are unable to work. 8O :x

With all due respect as long as we are watching each other we're more likely to ignore the ruling class.
Rich Corinthian Leather

TNLawPiper
BrotherOfTheBriar YouHeartlessBastards
BrotherOfTheBriar YouHeartlessBastards
Posts: 16962
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Seems to me

Post by TNLawPiper » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:38 pm

FredS wrote:
Roadmaster wrote:
Briarpatch wrote:Could it not be said that the Democrat state senators have abandoned their offices by refusing to participate?

Then I say appoint new ones and get on with the thing.

Walker is making a huge mistake by allowing this to drag on.
In your view would we be better off if had only one party the Repubican Party?
You didn't ask me RM, but let me take a stab at this one . . .

HELL YES we'd be better off if we only had the Republican party! :wink:
We all know the TNLP Party is the best party.

Post Reply