When did Dinosaurs get feathers?

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When did Dinosaurs get feathers?

Post by darthsaturn » Tue May 17, 2011 9:04 am

My daughter was watching a show on PBS called, "Dinosaur Train". It is usually a fun show. Well today, the little dinosaurs were on the hunt, looking for the dinosaur that belonged to the feathers they found. Well, they found a velicaraptor who had feathers and was showing them how colorful they were.

Really? When did this happen? Have scientist found fosilized feathers? Have they found dinosaur feathers perfectly preserved, showing their colors? I have never seen such proof, not saying it doesn't exist.

I think what gets me is, I watch shows on dinosaurs, and they tell you how they hunted, acted, mated, and lived. And they conclude all this from bones, and not documenting a real live dinosaur. Something stinks in subarbia.

It just seems they are making up "facts" to prove their theory's.
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Re: When did Dinosaurs get feathers?

Post by tobacco_tenderfoot » Tue May 17, 2011 9:09 am

darthsaturn wrote: It just seems they are making up "facts" to prove their theory's.
+1,000,000

A lot of scientists/archeologists come to conclusions, based on flimsy evidence, that become to be seen as 100% fact (due to regular assumptions) over the course of the years.

G.K. Chesterton's first few chapters in The Everlasting Man touches on this subject, mainly in reference to the daily activities of early civilizations.

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Post by Thoth » Tue May 17, 2011 9:15 am

There are fossil imprints of elongated feather like scales on velociraptor like dinosaurs.

The color is a b it of artistic liscense but they did find in very well perserved fossils of pigment bodies which in modern bird feathers leads to an orange/red color, so we can say that there were at least orange ones around. Though not definitively because actual feather structure plays a large role in its color by light diffraction. For example the blue on Blue Jays is not from a pigment but mainly light diffraction.
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Post by darthsaturn » Tue May 17, 2011 9:22 am

Thoth wrote:There are fossil imprints of elongated feather like scales on velociraptor like dinosaurs.

The color is a b it of artistic liscense but they did find in very well perserved fossils of pigment bodies which in modern bird feathers leads to an orange/red color, so we can say that there were at least orange ones around. Though not definitively because actual feather structure plays a large role in its color by light diffraction. For example the blue on Blue Jays is not from a pigment but mainly light diffraction.
That makes sense.
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Post by Irish-Dane » Tue May 17, 2011 9:23 am

I have deep respect (and a little jeolousy) for archeologists and the things they do. But even with all the technology and research we have, I have to question how they come to their conclusions.

When I was young I read a National Geographic article on the destruction of Pompeii (sp?) by the volcano. My Dad made the following observation which has stuck with me forever:

"What if a volcano instantly buried us, you and me, right now in our living room? And then a thousand years from now, archeologists find us perfectly preserved in that same living room but everything around us had been destroyed; what would they say/explain how we lived? You're reading a book so they might say we didn't have access to electronics and thus were primitive in our reading skills. The volcano probably burnt our clothes so they might say we lived naked. Since the living room was the only room not destroyed they might say everyone lived in one room houses. And finally, since it was just you and me and not your Mom and sisters, they might say our culture lived seperately from the opposite sex or worse, we killed all the women. See how things can be misinterpreted?"

Scientists may actually have proof that dinosaurs once had feathers, or it could just be a misinterpretation.
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Post by Bigwill » Tue May 17, 2011 9:29 am

Darth, I've watched that show FAR too many times (my son LOVES it), and am familiar with the exact episode you're referencing.

Me thinks you're skipping over the greatest artistic license (or unverified theory, depending on perspective) of the writers: dinosaurs didn't speak English. (Or have trains. Or time travel, for that matter.)

Sometimes a cartoon is just a cartoon. ;)
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Post by Thoth » Tue May 17, 2011 9:35 am

Irish-Dane wrote:I have deep respect (and a little jeolousy) for archeologists and the things they do. But even with all the technology and research we have, I have to question how they come to their conclusions.

When I was young I read a National Geographic article on the destruction of Pompeii (sp?) by the volcano. My Dad made the following observation which has stuck with me forever:

"What if a volcano instantly buried us, you and me, right now in our living room? And then a thousand years from now, archeologists find us perfectly preserved in that same living room but everything around us had been destroyed; what would they say/explain how we lived? You're reading a book so they might say we didn't have access to electronics and thus were primitive in our reading skills. The volcano probably burnt our clothes so they might say we lived naked. Since the living room was the only room not destroyed they might say everyone lived in one room houses. And finally, since it was just you and me and not your Mom and sisters, they might say our culture lived seperately from the opposite sex or worse, we killed all the women. See how things can be misinterpreted?"

Scientists may actually have proof that dinosaurs once had feathers, or it could just be a misinterpretation.
There is a hilarious book about that where a 1000 years from now an archaelogist digs up a motel and the conclusions he reaches are pretty funny yet seem almost reasonable. Its called the "Motel of Mysteries" by David Macauly. Be worth see if your library has a copy.
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Post by Irish-Dane » Tue May 17, 2011 9:36 am

Thoth wrote:
Irish-Dane wrote:I have deep respect (and a little jeolousy) for archeologists and the things they do. But even with all the technology and research we have, I have to question how they come to their conclusions.

When I was young I read a National Geographic article on the destruction of Pompeii (sp?) by the volcano. My Dad made the following observation which has stuck with me forever:

"What if a volcano instantly buried us, you and me, right now in our living room? And then a thousand years from now, archeologists find us perfectly preserved in that same living room but everything around us had been destroyed; what would they say/explain how we lived? You're reading a book so they might say we didn't have access to electronics and thus were primitive in our reading skills. The volcano probably burnt our clothes so they might say we lived naked. Since the living room was the only room not destroyed they might say everyone lived in one room houses. And finally, since it was just you and me and not your Mom and sisters, they might say our culture lived seperately from the opposite sex or worse, we killed all the women. See how things can be misinterpreted?"

Scientists may actually have proof that dinosaurs once had feathers, or it could just be a misinterpretation.
There is a hilarious book about that where a 1000 years from now an archaelogist digs up a motel and the conclusions he reaches are pretty funny yet seem almost reasonable. Its called the "Motel of Mysteries" by David Macauly. Be worth see if your library has a copy.
That sounds like an interesting read.
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Post by Bigwill » Tue May 17, 2011 9:37 am

Dinosaur Train (woot woot)

Once upon a time, there was a Mom.
Her name was Mrs. Pteranadon.
Sitting in her nest, she heard a scratching, she said:
'Oh boy, my eggs are hatching!'

Then one by one her kids popped free.
Baby Pteranadons 1, 2, 3.
'I'll name you Tiny, Shiny, and Don'.
But Tiny said, 'Wait, there's one more, Mom!'

The last little bugger was a different size.
With teeth and a tail and big green eyes.
He didn't look anything like the rest.
'What am I doing in a pteranadon nest?!?'

But dear old Mrs. Pteranadon said,
'This is your family, and I'm your Mom.
You may be different, but we're all creatures.
ALL dinosaurs have different features.
Come on, Buddy, we'll take a vacation.
I'll get us some tickets at the Pteranadon station.
We'll travel the world through sunshine and rain,
And meet ALL the species on the'

Dinosaur Train!
Dinosaur Train!
Dinosaur Train!
Dinosaur Train!

We're gonna ride
ride
ride
ride
ride
the Dinosaur Train (woot woot)!
And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good? Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

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Post by Irish-Dane » Tue May 17, 2011 9:38 am

Bigwill wrote:Dinosaur Train (woot woot)

Once upon a time, there was a Mom.
Her name was Mrs. Pteranadon.
Sitting in her nest, she heard a scratching, she said:
'Oh boy, my eggs are hatching!'

Then one by one her kids popped free.
Baby Pteranadons 1, 2, 3.
'I'll name you Tiny, Shiny, and Don'.
But Tiny said, 'Wait, there's one more, Mom!'

The last little bugger was a different size.
With teeth and a tail and big green eyes.
He didn't look anything like the rest.
'What am I doing in a pteranadon nest?!?'

But dear old Mrs. Pteranadon said,
'This is your family, and I'm your Mom.
You may be different, but we're all creatures.
ALL dinosaurs have different features.
Come on, Buddy, we'll take a vacation.
I'll get us some tickets at the Pteranadon station.
We'll travel the world through sunshine and rain,
And meet ALL the species on the'

Dinosaur Train!
Dinosaur Train!
Dinosaur Train!
Dinosaur Train!

We're gonna ride
ride
ride
ride
ride
the Dinosaur Train (woot woot)!
:youcrazy:
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Post by darthsaturn » Tue May 17, 2011 9:48 am

Bigwill wrote:Darth, I've watched that show FAR too many times (my son LOVES it), and am familiar with the exact episode you're referencing.

Me thinks you're skipping over the greatest artistic license (or unverified theory, depending on perspective) of the writers: dinosaurs didn't speak English. (Or have trains. Or time travel, for that matter.)

Sometimes a cartoon is just a cartoon. ;)
So true. :lol:
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Post by tuttle » Tue May 17, 2011 10:20 am

darth, I assume you have missed the 'banter' twixt infidel and I on this matter? :lol:

I love you man. Sometimes as I spar with infi on this I feel like the only one who thinks my view is 'sane'. But now that you and others have basically expressed alot of the same things I have I feel like I got some back :wink:

as to the feather like scales on a velociraptor... I believe the key words here are like and scales. Not feathers.

and as to a cartoon just being a cartoon... I would probably be ok with this on a cartoon aside from the fact that evolutionists are trying to shove this theory down young throats. There is no evolutionary theory that dinosaurs spoke english or rode on trains...but there is for feathers and that's just as 'fantastical' in my book. Kids know the difference though, and feathered dinos aren't presented as 'fun kid time fantasy' like dino train rides. They are supposed to come away from this with the idea that, yes, dinosaurs did have feathers.

Evolutionists want dinosaurs to have feathers because it fits into their theory that 'Dinosaurs evolved into birds'. Until there are actual evidence for feathers found I'll continue to rail against this. I'm not just talking about fossilized bird creatures either. If they want to put feathers on raptors and other large dinosaurs then they need to have substantial evidence before it is taught as fact.

bah! I could go on but I'll stop. I'll just end it by saying that I like Dinosaur Train and watch it with my kids (and Dino Dan). and anytime 'millions of years' or 'feathered dinos' comes up (or any other evolutionary theory touted as fact) then I have the opportunity to talk to my kids about it.
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Post by infidel » Tue May 17, 2011 10:21 am

Tuttle should be all over this thread :-P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velociraptor#Feathers

For some species they've found feather impressions in the fossils. For others, like velociraptor, they've inferred feathers from skeletal features like "quill knobs"
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Post by infidel » Tue May 17, 2011 10:23 am

tuttle wrote:darth, I assume you have missed the 'banter' twixt infidel and I on this matter? :lol:
Ah, there you are :-P
tuttle wrote:Until there are actual evidence for feathers found I'll continue to rail against this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feathered_ ... f_feathers

Somehow I think you'll continue to rail against it no matter what.
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Post by Bigwill » Tue May 17, 2011 10:23 am

The short (and bluntly serious) answer to Darth's question: It's PBS.

As but another example of their 'agenda' (which the liberal media wants the average American to think is nothing but a right-wing conspiracy theory) is Arthur. In one episode, one of Arthur's friends is going to have a baby brother or sister, and Arthur asks his Mom if he can have one too. Her answer, I kid you not, was 'babies are nice, but if we had one, we wouldn't have enough money to go on vacation and buy you toys.' I told my son 'no more Arthur'.
Last edited by Bigwill on Tue May 17, 2011 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by infidel » Tue May 17, 2011 10:25 am

tuttle wrote:Evolutionists want dinosaurs to have feathers because it fits into their theory that 'Dinosaurs evolved into birds'.
Yes it's all part of the Vast Darwinian Conspiracy.
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Post by Bigwill » Tue May 17, 2011 10:28 am

infidel wrote:
tuttle wrote:Evolutionists want dinosaurs to have feathers because it fits into their theory that 'Dinosaurs evolved into birds'.
Yes it's all part of the Vast Darwinian Conspiracy.
True or false: a scientist who interprets the data for himself and determines that there is a Creator who intelligently designed the world will most likely be denied tenure at the non-Christian university where he works, on the basis of said conclusion.
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Post by Thunktank » Tue May 17, 2011 10:34 am

Good grief! There is right wing nuts and left wing nuts with motivation to take over the world. Unfortunately, there's little room for balanced common sense. If people can believe that Eve was created using a rib from Adam, why the heck can't they believe that God gave a dinosaur feathers?

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Post by darthsaturn » Tue May 17, 2011 10:41 am

infidel wrote:
tuttle wrote:Evolutionists want dinosaurs to have feathers because it fits into their theory that 'Dinosaurs evolved into birds'.
Yes it's all part of the Vast Darwinian Conspiracy.
<redacted_emoji>

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Post by infidel » Tue May 17, 2011 10:51 am

Bigwill wrote:
infidel wrote:
tuttle wrote:Evolutionists want dinosaurs to have feathers because it fits into their theory that 'Dinosaurs evolved into birds'.
Yes it's all part of the Vast Darwinian Conspiracy.
True or false: a scientist who interprets the data for himself and determines that there is a Creator who intelligently designed the world will most likely be denied tenure at the non-Christian university where he works, on the basis of said conclusion.

So what you're saying is Christian universities employ "scientists" who make up their own conclusions which are not scientifically valid? Interesting.
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