THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Where Fellowship and Camaraderie lives: that place where the CPS membership values fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:01 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:26 pm
+JMJ+

To be fair, Cupich's comments about "infantility" were in the context of Weinady's "open letter" (a context I'd redacted in the interest of spatial economy), which might help to blunt some of Cupich's apparent broad-brushedness. Maybe the pushback of the next few weeks will prompt Cupich to a greater clarity.
This is my hope, as well. I am not yet ready to discard Cardinal Cupich, just because NCReporter likes him.

Here is NCReporter, celebrating a petition telling Pope Francis what to do:
Petition asks Francis to remove Madison's Bishop Morlino
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am

+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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hugodrax
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am

wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am

hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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hugodrax
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:47 am

Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
You're Irish, aren't you?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Del
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:07 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:47 am
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
You're Irish, aren't you?
Not at all. I love the Irish... their music, their culture, their dying faith, their haunted land. But I am not Irish.

Just War theology is a theology of peace. It reasons that war is NOT a moral choice, unless ALL of the tests are met:
- The cause of conflict must be just (defending one's homeland, for example)
- All avenues for peaceful resolution must be exhausted
- The likelihood of winning the war must be probable
- The damage of war must not be greater than the damage of enduring the current situation.

The D-Day invasion of Europe in WWII was a just war. As massive as the damage and loss of life was, it would have been worse to let the Nazis control Europe. We knew that we could win, by isolating Germany and starving Hitler's ability to continue waging war. The peaceful negotiations of Neville Chamberlain had already failed. Europe had to be set free, so American Christians volunteered by the thousands to fight.

In Ireland, there wasn't a single item on the moral list that qualified the Troubles as moral or just. Southern Ireland had received their independence. The regions of the North had legislated democratically their choice to remain under English rule. They could have lived with this in peace and the result would be exactly as it is today. But partisans on both sides wanted to wage a feud of terror.... unjust, ignoring peace, unable to make any change, causing immense damage and suffering.

So why is this woman invoking "Just War Theology" as the cause of her trouble?
- Because it is presently stylish among liberals to blame Christianity for all the world's problems, past and present.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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hugodrax
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:25 pm

Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:07 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:47 am
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
You're Irish, aren't you?
Not at all. I love the Irish... their music, their culture, their dying faith, their haunted land. But I am not Irish.

Just War theology is a theology of peace. It reasons that war is NOT a moral choice, unless ALL of the tests are met:
- The cause of conflict must be just (defending one's homeland, for example)
- All avenues for peaceful resolution must be exhausted
- The likelihood of winning the war must be probable
- The damage of war must not be greater than the damage of enduring the current situation.

The D-Day invasion of Europe in WWII was a just war. As massive as the damage and loss of life was, it would have been worse to let the Nazis control Europe. We knew that we could win, by isolating Germany and starving Hitler's ability to continue waging war. The peaceful negotiations of Neville Chamberlain had already failed. Europe had to be set free, so American Christians volunteered by the thousands to fight.

In Ireland, there wasn't a single item on the moral list that qualified the Troubles as moral or just. Southern Ireland had received their independence. The regions of the North had legislated democratically their choice to remain under English rule. They could have lived with this in peace and the result would be exactly as it is today. But partisans on both sides wanted to wage a feud of terror.... unjust, ignoring peace, unable to make any change, causing immense damage and suffering.

So why is this woman invoking "Just War Theology" as the cause of her trouble?
- Because it is presently stylish among liberals to blame Christianity for all the world's problems, past and present.
Good gravy, but you're something else. Is your catholicism so in thrall to your politics that you cant even see when someone might agree with you, such is your haste to make a "point."

It won't work, you know. I don't think enough of you to get angry. I laugh and laugh and laugh, though. I think that part where you went all ad hominem and accused her of thinking with her emotions was probably your crowning achievement in unintentional hilarity and I sincerely thank you.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Del
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:45 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:25 pm
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:07 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:47 am
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
You're Irish, aren't you?
Not at all. I love the Irish... their music, their culture, their dying faith, their haunted land. But I am not Irish.

Just War theology is a theology of peace. It reasons that war is NOT a moral choice, unless ALL of the tests are met:
- The cause of conflict must be just (defending one's homeland, for example)
- All avenues for peaceful resolution must be exhausted
- The likelihood of winning the war must be probable
- The damage of war must not be greater than the damage of enduring the current situation.

The D-Day invasion of Europe in WWII was a just war. As massive as the damage and loss of life was, it would have been worse to let the Nazis control Europe. We knew that we could win, by isolating Germany and starving Hitler's ability to continue waging war. The peaceful negotiations of Neville Chamberlain had already failed. Europe had to be set free, so American Christians volunteered by the thousands to fight.

In Ireland, there wasn't a single item on the moral list that qualified the Troubles as moral or just. Southern Ireland had received their independence. The regions of the North had legislated democratically their choice to remain under English rule. They could have lived with this in peace and the result would be exactly as it is today. But partisans on both sides wanted to wage a feud of terror.... unjust, ignoring peace, unable to make any change, causing immense damage and suffering.

So why is this woman invoking "Just War Theology" as the cause of her trouble?
- Because it is presently stylish among liberals to blame Christianity for all the world's problems, past and present.
Good gravy, but you're something else. Is your catholicism so in thrall to your politics that you cant even see when someone might agree with you, such is your haste to make a "point."

It won't work, you know. I don't think enough of you to get angry. I laugh and laugh and laugh, though. I think that part where you went all ad hominem and accused her of thinking with her emotions was probably your crowning achievement in unintentional hilarity and I sincerely thank you.
We should chat on the phone again. I don't think I've ever heard you laugh.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
hugodrax
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:21 pm

Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:45 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:25 pm
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:07 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:47 am
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
You're Irish, aren't you?
Not at all. I love the Irish... their music, their culture, their dying faith, their haunted land. But I am not Irish.

Just War theology is a theology of peace. It reasons that war is NOT a moral choice, unless ALL of the tests are met:
- The cause of conflict must be just (defending one's homeland, for example)
- All avenues for peaceful resolution must be exhausted
- The likelihood of winning the war must be probable
- The damage of war must not be greater than the damage of enduring the current situation.

The D-Day invasion of Europe in WWII was a just war. As massive as the damage and loss of life was, it would have been worse to let the Nazis control Europe. We knew that we could win, by isolating Germany and starving Hitler's ability to continue waging war. The peaceful negotiations of Neville Chamberlain had already failed. Europe had to be set free, so American Christians volunteered by the thousands to fight.

In Ireland, there wasn't a single item on the moral list that qualified the Troubles as moral or just. Southern Ireland had received their independence. The regions of the North had legislated democratically their choice to remain under English rule. They could have lived with this in peace and the result would be exactly as it is today. But partisans on both sides wanted to wage a feud of terror.... unjust, ignoring peace, unable to make any change, causing immense damage and suffering.

So why is this woman invoking "Just War Theology" as the cause of her trouble?
- Because it is presently stylish among liberals to blame Christianity for all the world's problems, past and present.
Good gravy, but you're something else. Is your catholicism so in thrall to your politics that you cant even see when someone might agree with you, such is your haste to make a "point."

It won't work, you know. I don't think enough of you to get angry. I laugh and laugh and laugh, though. I think that part where you went all ad hominem and accused her of thinking with her emotions was probably your crowning achievement in unintentional hilarity and I sincerely thank you.
We should chat on the phone again. I don't think I've ever heard you laugh.
Breeding, old top. It wouldn't do to laugh at you in conversation. Behind the mask provided by electronic communication, however, all bets are off.

And I don't really laugh. I smile sometimes. Chuckle occasionally. Rarely full laughter. If you want to hear a belly laugh, we're going to have to watch something like the Pink Panther.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
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Posts: 35619
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:25 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:21 pm
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:45 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:25 pm
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:07 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:47 am
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out
Image
Mairead Maguire was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles (Paul Faith/PA)

She told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the Northern Ireland Troubles.

Mairead Maguire, who was awarded the accolade in 1976 after founding the Peace People campaign during the Northern Ireland Troubles, told a conference in the Vatican that lessons can be learned from the conflict.

“We need to throw out the ‘just war’ theory, a phony piece of morality,” she said.

“Instead, we can develop a new theology of peace and non-violence and articulate a clear, unambiguous rejection of violence. Religion cannot be used to justify war or armed struggle.” …
FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
You're Irish, aren't you?
Not at all. I love the Irish... their music, their culture, their dying faith, their haunted land. But I am not Irish.

Just War theology is a theology of peace. It reasons that war is NOT a moral choice, unless ALL of the tests are met:
- The cause of conflict must be just (defending one's homeland, for example)
- All avenues for peaceful resolution must be exhausted
- The likelihood of winning the war must be probable
- The damage of war must not be greater than the damage of enduring the current situation.

The D-Day invasion of Europe in WWII was a just war. As massive as the damage and loss of life was, it would have been worse to let the Nazis control Europe. We knew that we could win, by isolating Germany and starving Hitler's ability to continue waging war. The peaceful negotiations of Neville Chamberlain had already failed. Europe had to be set free, so American Christians volunteered by the thousands to fight.

In Ireland, there wasn't a single item on the moral list that qualified the Troubles as moral or just. Southern Ireland had received their independence. The regions of the North had legislated democratically their choice to remain under English rule. They could have lived with this in peace and the result would be exactly as it is today. But partisans on both sides wanted to wage a feud of terror.... unjust, ignoring peace, unable to make any change, causing immense damage and suffering.

So why is this woman invoking "Just War Theology" as the cause of her trouble?
- Because it is presently stylish among liberals to blame Christianity for all the world's problems, past and present.
Good gravy, but you're something else. Is your catholicism so in thrall to your politics that you cant even see when someone might agree with you, such is your haste to make a "point."

It won't work, you know. I don't think enough of you to get angry. I laugh and laugh and laugh, though. I think that part where you went all ad hominem and accused her of thinking with her emotions was probably your crowning achievement in unintentional hilarity and I sincerely thank you.
We should chat on the phone again. I don't think I've ever heard you laugh.
Breeding, old top. It wouldn't do to laugh at you in conversation. Behind the mask provided by electronic communication, however, all bets are off.

And I don't really laugh. I smile sometimes. Chuckle occasionally. Rarely full laughter. If you want to hear a belly laugh, we're going to have to watch something like the Pink Panther.
Maybe it's just the double-martini, but I'm laughing now. :lol:
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 14540
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:27 pm

Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:25 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:21 pm
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:45 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:25 pm
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:07 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:47 am
Del wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire: Concept of ‘just wars’ must be thrown out



FTR, this is more troubling than the Troubles.
The Irish are so cute when they pretend they can think like real people.
What????

This is an example of refusing to think. She is leading with her emotions.

And it is not "acting like real people." It is a cute version of "acting like Americans."

- She knows what she wants, in opposition to long-established wisdom.
- And she wants someone else to justify it for her, probably in a podcast or something.
- So she doesn't have to think for herself.

If the Irish partisans had ever bothered with Just War theology, then they would have reasoned that their senseless feud was not just.
You're Irish, aren't you?
Not at all. I love the Irish... their music, their culture, their dying faith, their haunted land. But I am not Irish.

Just War theology is a theology of peace. It reasons that war is NOT a moral choice, unless ALL of the tests are met:
- The cause of conflict must be just (defending one's homeland, for example)
- All avenues for peaceful resolution must be exhausted
- The likelihood of winning the war must be probable
- The damage of war must not be greater than the damage of enduring the current situation.

The D-Day invasion of Europe in WWII was a just war. As massive as the damage and loss of life was, it would have been worse to let the Nazis control Europe. We knew that we could win, by isolating Germany and starving Hitler's ability to continue waging war. The peaceful negotiations of Neville Chamberlain had already failed. Europe had to be set free, so American Christians volunteered by the thousands to fight.

In Ireland, there wasn't a single item on the moral list that qualified the Troubles as moral or just. Southern Ireland had received their independence. The regions of the North had legislated democratically their choice to remain under English rule. They could have lived with this in peace and the result would be exactly as it is today. But partisans on both sides wanted to wage a feud of terror.... unjust, ignoring peace, unable to make any change, causing immense damage and suffering.

So why is this woman invoking "Just War Theology" as the cause of her trouble?
- Because it is presently stylish among liberals to blame Christianity for all the world's problems, past and present.
Good gravy, but you're something else. Is your catholicism so in thrall to your politics that you cant even see when someone might agree with you, such is your haste to make a "point."

It won't work, you know. I don't think enough of you to get angry. I laugh and laugh and laugh, though. I think that part where you went all ad hominem and accused her of thinking with her emotions was probably your crowning achievement in unintentional hilarity and I sincerely thank you.
We should chat on the phone again. I don't think I've ever heard you laugh.
Breeding, old top. It wouldn't do to laugh at you in conversation. Behind the mask provided by electronic communication, however, all bets are off.

And I don't really laugh. I smile sometimes. Chuckle occasionally. Rarely full laughter. If you want to hear a belly laugh, we're going to have to watch something like the Pink Panther.
Maybe it's just the double-martini, but I'm laughing now. :lol:
:D
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:09 am

+JMJ+

Pope Francis: The future of the world depends on the family
Image
Pope Francis at the general audience in St. Peter's Square on Nov. 8, 2017. (Credit: Daniel Ibanez for CNA.)

In a video message on Saturday, Pope Francis said, “The love between a man and woman is one of the most generative human experiences, it is the ferment of the culture of encounter and brings to the present world an injection of sociality.”

VATICAN CITY - The future of the Church and the world is dependent on the good of the family, said Pope Francis in a video message Saturday.

“The love between a man and woman is one of the most generative human experiences, it is the ferment of the culture of encounter and brings to the present world an injection of sociality,” the pope said.

“The family born of marriage creates fruitful bonds, which reveal themselves to be the most effective antidote against the individualism that currently runs rampant.”

[…]

Speaking about the role of the properly formed conscience, Francis warned against the temptation to turn to a sort of egoism or “cult of self.”

“The contemporary world risks confusing the primacy of conscience, which is always to be respected, with the exclusive autonomy of the individual in relation to the relationships he lives,” he said.

This is why, he said, there is a need to form consciences - not substitute them - and to accompany spouses and parents in learning to “apply the Gospel to the concreteness of life.”

In the reality of the family and of marital love, there may come situations which require “arduous choices,” he continued, and these should be made “with righteousness.” Therefore, divine grace, “which illuminates and strengthens married love and parental mission,” is absolutely necessary for spouses and the family. …




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:48 pm

+JMJ+

Was It Better Back Then?
Image
Session of the Council of Trent by Matthias Burglechner, 16th century

On October 31 Catholics and Protestants marked with ecumenical spirit or with polemical tone the anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation. Just a few days later—November 4—came the feast of St. Charles Borromeo, one of the great saints of the counter-reformation, or “Catholic Reform,” or “early modern Catholicism,” depending on your preferred historical-theological interpretation of that very long period. He along with St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Philip Neri, and others were once associated with “the golden age” of confessional Catholicism, but now that age does not seem so golden anymore. Some of the reactions against Pope Francis seem to be the expression of (or to express a new enchantment with) medieval Christendom.

The current debate on the pontificate of Francis reveals an interesting approach to history, especially among those who accuse the pope of fostering chaos in the forms of disciplinary instability and theological uncertainty among the faithful. This assumes a particular view of this pontificate and of so-called “Vatican II Catholicism” in opposition to the historical narrative of the pre-Vatican II period as a time of stability and certainty. There are those who believe Vatican II ushered in an era of crisis and existential challenge for Catholicism. They cite data on declining religious affiliation, the drop in the number of clergy and religious, and the wave of sexual-abuse and financial scandals. But it is really the change in sexual mores that drives Vatican II critics to see the collapse of Catholicism as a fruit of the council. Further, their views of the popes of these last fifty years have solidified: Paul VI is seen as an enigma, at best a victim of his own naïveté about the possibility of rescuing Catholicism from radical progressivism; John Paul II is spared the association with Vatican II and post-Vatican II through his identification with anti-Communism and anti-abortion message; while Benedict XVI has been subjected to a neo-traditionalist appropriation. As for Pope John Paul I—who served only thirty-three days and whom Francis recently recognized for “living the Christian virtues in a heroic way” and therefore is on his way to possible sainthood—it remains to be seen if the Church will rediscover the “Vatican II centrism” with which he identified. …




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:05 pm

+JMJ+

Why Naumann's big win isn't necessarily all about Pope Francis
Image
Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas. (Credit: Archdiocese of Kansas City.)

Elections within the U.S. bishops' conference are more akin to races for department chairs at a university, or officers in a social club, than a U.S. congressional race, meaning that the personal often triumphs over the political. As a result, yesterday's victory of Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas over Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago may have been in part a referendum on Pope Francis, but that's hardly the only way to read it.

Yesterday’s big Catholic news in the States was the election of Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas, over Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago as chair of the Committee for Pro-Life Activities at the U.S. bishops’ fall meeting.

It was the tightest vote of the six races for committee chairs at the 2017 meeting, with Naumann prevailing 96-82. Going in the thought was that Cupich might have the edge, in part because of the bishops’ tendency to choose cardinals to lead the committee to give it a higher profile.

In many media outlets, including Crux, the vote was presented in part as a referendum on the broader direction of the U.S. bishops in the Pope Francis era, indicating a preference for a more conservative line. There’s certainly something to be said for that reading, since Naumann and Cupich do seem to embody quite different options, and not just in their approach to pro-life advocacy.

On the other hand, before applying an exclusively political lens to the outcome – as if it were somehow a “no” vote to the entire Pope Francis agenda, sort of the U.S. bishops’ equivalent of Brexit – there probably are a few other factors to consider. …




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:15 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:05 pm
+JMJ+

Why Naumann's big win isn't necessarily all about Pope Francis
Image
Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas. (Credit: Archdiocese of Kansas City.)

Elections within the U.S. bishops' conference are more akin to races for department chairs at a university, or officers in a social club, than a U.S. congressional race, meaning that the personal often triumphs over the political. As a result, yesterday's victory of Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas over Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago may have been in part a referendum on Pope Francis, but that's hardly the only way to read it.

Yesterday’s big Catholic news in the States was the election of Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas, over Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago as chair of the Committee for Pro-Life Activities at the U.S. bishops’ fall meeting.

It was the tightest vote of the six races for committee chairs at the 2017 meeting, with Naumann prevailing 96-82. Going in the thought was that Cupich might have the edge, in part because of the bishops’ tendency to choose cardinals to lead the committee to give it a higher profile.

In many media outlets, including Crux, the vote was presented in part as a referendum on the broader direction of the U.S. bishops in the Pope Francis era, indicating a preference for a more conservative line. There’s certainly something to be said for that reading, since Naumann and Cupich do seem to embody quite different options, and not just in their approach to pro-life advocacy.

On the other hand, before applying an exclusively political lens to the outcome – as if it were somehow a “no” vote to the entire Pope Francis agenda, sort of the U.S. bishops’ equivalent of Brexit – there probably are a few other factors to consider. …
I take this as John Allen's effort to remind us that Catholicism is not about politics -- because currently his readers are overwhelmingly tempted to think that everything is about politics.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:18 am

wosbald wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:48 pm
+JMJ+

Was It Better Back Then?
Image
Session of the Council of Trent by Matthias Burglechner, 16th century

On October 31 Catholics and Protestants marked with ecumenical spirit or with polemical tone the anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation. Just a few days later—November 4—came the feast of St. Charles Borromeo, one of the great saints of the counter-reformation, or “Catholic Reform,” or “early modern Catholicism,” depending on your preferred historical-theological interpretation of that very long period. He along with St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Philip Neri, and others were once associated with “the golden age” of confessional Catholicism, but now that age does not seem so golden anymore. Some of the reactions against Pope Francis seem to be the expression of (or to express a new enchantment with) medieval Christendom.

The current debate on the pontificate of Francis reveals an interesting approach to history, especially among those who accuse the pope of fostering chaos in the forms of disciplinary instability and theological uncertainty among the faithful. This assumes a particular view of this pontificate and of so-called “Vatican II Catholicism” in opposition to the historical narrative of the pre-Vatican II period as a time of stability and certainty. There are those who believe Vatican II ushered in an era of crisis and existential challenge for Catholicism. They cite data on declining religious affiliation, the drop in the number of clergy and religious, and the wave of sexual-abuse and financial scandals. But it is really the change in sexual mores that drives Vatican II critics to see the collapse of Catholicism as a fruit of the council. Further, their views of the popes of these last fifty years have solidified: Paul VI is seen as an enigma, at best a victim of his own naïveté about the possibility of rescuing Catholicism from radical progressivism; John Paul II is spared the association with Vatican II and post-Vatican II through his identification with anti-Communism and anti-abortion message; while Benedict XVI has been subjected to a neo-traditionalist appropriation. As for Pope John Paul I—who served only thirty-three days and whom Francis recently recognized for “living the Christian virtues in a heroic way” and therefore is on his way to possible sainthood—it remains to be seen if the Church will rediscover the “Vatican II centrism” with which he identified. …
Why are you linking us Commonweal and National Catholic Reporter?
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:45 pm

+JMJ+

Christians & the Death Penalty
Image

There Is No Patron Saint of Executioners

I would be lying if I claimed that my initial approach to By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed was an unprejudiced one—I am firmly convinced that no Christian who truly understands his or her faith can possibly defend the practice of capital punishment—but I was not unwilling to give the book a fair hearing. My convictions on the matter may be fixed, but they are not always passionate. There have been various occasions over the years when I have found myself desiring the deaths of some especially vicious criminals, including two who casually murdered an exceptionally gentle friend of mine when I was in college. And I have never shed a tear over the Nazis executed by the Allies after the Second World War. I am quite able to be heartless toward the heartless. But this book would exhaust the ruthlessness of Torquemada.

I might have guessed that something was terribly amiss just from the title. There is nothing especially mysterious about it: it is more or less inevitable that any substantial attempt at a Christian defense of capital punishment will repeat two tediously persistent exegetical errors—a misuse of Genesis 9:6 (hence the title) and a misreading of Romans 13:1–7. But it makes some difference which of the two is accorded priority. If the latter, then in all likelihood the argument being made is merely that the death penalty is theologically licit; if the former, that it is morally necessary. And so it is in this case: the claim Feser and Bessette advance is not simply that Catholics may approve of capital punishment, but that they must, and that it actually borders on heresy not to do so. Needless to say, an assertion that bold requires a formidable array of corroborating evidence, and this Feser and Bessette fail to provide. What they have produced instead is relentlessly ill-conceived. Its arguments, philosophical and historical, are feeble. Its treatment of biblical texts is crude, its patristic scholarship careless. And all too often it exhibits a moral insensibility that is truly repellant. …




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:25 am

wosbald wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:45 pm
+JMJ+

There Is No Patron Saint of Executioners
St Evilasius, executioner, convert and martyr

St. Alban & Companion

St. Apronian
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:45 pm

Del wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:45 pm
+JMJ+

There Is No Patron Saint of Executioners
St Evilasius, executioner, convert and martyr

St. Alban & Companion

St. Apronian
None of those are patron saints of executioners.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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