THE CATHOLIC THREAD

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:18 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:35 pm
+JMJ+
Del wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:06 pm
"Political correctness." It's not about goodness or truth. It's about controlling what people can't say or think.

Yes, Dred Scott is as bad as Roe v. Wade. Try saying that to the people who want this statue removed.
Bingo.
They don't all perceive the parallel as easily as you fellows can. They may even see oppression in your Pro-life stance, the same kind of oppression slavery was. Hope and faith is more convincing than condemnation. Even political correctness has some well intentioned ideas.

Judge Taney reminds me of a modern day liberal Catholic from the San Francisco area. Maybe we ought to make a statue of her someday? :P

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:13 am

A big, fat zederation right here.

Also a friendly reminder that the terms of service have changed as of August 21, 2017. Please read them and govern yourselves accordingly.




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:48 am

wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:13 am
A big, fat zederation right here.

Also a friendly reminder that the terms of service have changed as of August 21, 2017. Please read them and govern yourselves accordingly.
I became aware of the new changes late last night.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:56 am

+JMJ+

Pope calls for an end to ‘collective and arbitrary’ expulsion of migrants
Image
Pope Francis poses for a photo with a group of refugees he invited to join him on the steps of St. Peter's Basilica during his weekly general audience in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, Wednesday, June 22, 2016. The banner reads "The refugees for a future together." (Credit: Fabio Frustaci/AP.)

In a message for the Vatican-sponsored "World Day of Migrants and Refugees," set for Jan. 14, Pope Francis called the “lamentable situation” of migrants and refugees fleeing war, persecution, natural disasters and poverty a “sign of the times,” and called for nations to rise up to the challenge of "Welcoming, protecting, promoting and integrating migrants and refugees."

ROME - As the United State’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE) continues to increase the number of deportations, Pope Francis said that collective and arbitrary expulsions of migrants and refugees don’t resolve the world’s immigrant crisis.

He also called for programs fostering family reunification, including grandparents, children, and siblings.

Quoting his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI, Francis also said that the centrality of the human person “obliges us to always prioritize personal safety over national security.”

The pope’s words came in a message for the Vatican-sponsored “World Day of Migrants and Refugees,” set for January 14. The message was released by the Vatican’s press office on Monday. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Pepik » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:40 am

wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:56 am
+JMJ+

Pope calls for an end to ‘collective and arbitrary’ expulsion of migrants
Image
Pope Francis poses for a photo with a group of refugees he invited to join him on the steps of St. Peter's Basilica during his weekly general audience in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, Wednesday, June 22, 2016. The banner reads "The refugees for a future together." (Credit: Fabio Frustaci/AP.)

In a message for the Vatican-sponsored "World Day of Migrants and Refugees," set for Jan. 14, Pope Francis called the “lamentable situation” of migrants and refugees fleeing war, persecution, natural disasters and poverty a “sign of the times,” and called for nations to rise up to the challenge of "Welcoming, protecting, promoting and integrating migrants and refugees."

<SNIP>

The pope’s words came in a message for the Vatican-sponsored “World Day of Migrants and Refugees,” set for January 14. The message was released by the Vatican’s press office on Monday. …
wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:13 am
Also a friendly reminder that the terms of service have changed as of August 21, 2017. Please read them and govern yourselves accordingly.
While this has humanitarian purposes, it does so through an appeal to influence Political Policy - we're bumping up against Policy here. Fair warning.
Rgrds,
Joe


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"I drank what?" - Socrates

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:10 pm

+JMJ+

Amid monument debate, statue of St. Junipero Serra defaced in L.A.
Image
An image of a defaced statue of St. Junipero Serra that appeared on social media on Aug. 17. The damage to the statue, located in northern Los Angeles, was quickly repaired. (Credit: Screen capture.)

Many people are debating whether or not to remove statues considered offensive by many from public places after the violence in Charlottesville. In the wake of that debate, a statue of St. Junipero Serra, praised as the "Apostle of California" but linked by critics with abuses of Native Americans, was defaced last week near the San Fernando Mission in northern Los Angeles.

As debate spread across America about removing statues and monuments of figures associated with painful chapters of history, a statue of St. Junipero Serra, canonized by Pope Francis during his U.S. visit in 2015 but linked by critics to abuses of Native Americans, reportedly was defaced in northern Los Angeles this week. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:48 am

You've Delled this thread good, Wosbald. Sucked the life right out of it, you have.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:11 am

+JMJ+

Papal confidante says ‘Amoris’ critics locked in ‘death-trap’ logic
Image
Archbishop Víctor Manuel Fernández and then-Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, now Pope Francis, appear together in this 2010 photo. (Credit: Stock image.)

Archbishop Víctor Manuel Fernández, rector of the Catholic University in Buenos Aires and sometimes described as the pope’s amanuensis, has issued a systematic defense of "Amoris Laetitia," Francis's controversial document on the family, saying its critics are locked in a "death-trap" logic and their approach risks “a betrayal of the heart of the Gospel.”

… Fernández, who is sometimes described as the pope’s amanuensis, is widely considered to have helped draft Amoris, and is therefore in a unique position to comment on it after what he calls months of “intense activity” by a “small but hyperactive” group of critics.

He begins by asserting the pope himself gave an authoritative interpretation of chapter eight of Amoris, where the footnote on Communion is found, in a letter to the bishops of Buenos Aires on Sept 9, 2016.

In the letter, Francis thanked the bishops for guidelines they had drafted allowing for discernment leading in some cases to the sacraments, and said there was “no other interpretation” of Amoris than the one they had given.

Responding to critics that the pope cannot make an authoritative statement in such a format, Fernández cites past instances of papal correspondence to bishops being quoted in teaching documents (for example, in a note by Pope Pius IX cited in Lumen Gentium, a document of the Second Vatican Council).

Those precedents prove the “hermeneutical authority” of his letter to the Buenos Aires bishops, Fernández said. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:54 am

+JMJ+

Pope invokes 'magisterial authority' to declare liturgy changes 'irreversible'
Image
Pope Francis rises the holy host during a Mass prior to the Corpus Domini procession from St. John at the Lateran Basilica to St. Mary Major Basilica to mark the feast of the Body and Blood of Christ, in Rome, Sunday, June 18, 2017. (Credit: AP Photo/Andrew Medichini.)

Although acknowledging that more than fifty years after the Second Vatican Council there are still tensions and unfinished business in terms of implementing its vision for the liturgy, Pope Francis in a session with Italian liturgists on Thursday nevertheless invoked his "magisterial authority" to declare, "The liturgical reform is irreversible."

ROME - Addressing a group of liturgical experts on Thursday, Pope Francis said that after the teaching of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) and a long path of experience, “We can affirm with certainty and magisterial authority that the liturgical reform is irreversible.”

[…]

He began by highlighting some of the cornerstones of the liturgical movement of the 20th century, a reminder that the ongoing reform is rooted in tradition, and was actually kick-started by two popes often seen as “conservative”: Pius X, who created a commission for renewal in 1913, and Pius XII, with his encyclical Mediator Dei and changes to the liturgy of Holy Week.

According to Francis, these changes came to fruition with the 1963’s Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy of the Second Vatican Council, the application of which is still ongoing, including overcoming “unfounded and superficial interpretations, partial revelations and practices that disfigure” [the liturgy].

[…]

Also using the words of his predecessor, Francis called Catholics - priests and laity alike - to leave behind “disruptive ferments, which are equally pernicious in on sense and the other,” and to “apply integrally” the reform approved by the bishops who took part in the Council.

[…]

Towards the end of his remarks, Francis told those gathered that it must be remembered the wealth of the Catholic Church’s prayer life goes beyond the Roman Rite. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:06 am

+JMJ+

On liturgy, ignore the Ultramontanists of both left and right
Image
Pope Francis this week delivered an important address on liturgy, which was pounced on by the emerging Ultramontanists of the left — among other things, because it doesn't cite Benedict XVI. But to see it through the lens of one's political biases misses the real point, which is a call to discernment about how successful the liturgical reform actually has been.

On August 24, Pope Francis gave an important address to participants in the National Italian Liturgical Week. We all, of course, read papal documents through our own personal and theological lenses, hopefully seeking not only confirmation of our own views, but also challenges to them.

I find it amusing, however, to note that several commentators, representing the emergent ultramontanism of the Left, immediately pounced upon this statement by Francis: “We can affirm with certainty and with magisterial authority that the liturgical reform is irreversible.”

[Note: “Ultramontanism” was a movement emphasizing the authority of the pope that crested in 1870 at the First Vatican Council with the declaration of papal infallibility, and today refers to Catholics who accent the primacy of the pope and the Vatican over local churches.]

One commentator even seemed to relish that, among authorities cited in the document’s footnotes, no reference was made to Benedict XVI, thus implicitly, and insouciantly, pitting one magisterial authority against another. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:01 am

+JMJ+

Bishop apologizes for procession of Hindu deity in a Catholic church
Image
A Hindu procession venerating the pagan god Ganesh entered a Catholic Church in Spain's Ceuta and Melilla, where they were welcome by the vicar general. Afterwards, the diocese issued a statement of apology, saying that it was a mistake that shouldn't have been allowed. (Credit: Screen caption/YouTube FatoTV Ceuta.)

After the Vicar General of a Catholic diocese in a Spanish territory in North Africa welcomed a Hindu religious procession involving the deity Ganesh into the local cathedral, with Catholics sang a Marian hymn while looking at the image, the local bishop has apologized, saying the Church has to be "faithful to our Christian tradition," and the priest has resigned.

ROME - A bishop in Spain has issued a public apology after one of his priests allowed the local Hindu community to parade inside his church with an image of Ganesh, a Hindu deity easy to identify because of his elephant head.

The priest who allowed the event to happen subsequently offered his resignation as the Vicar General of the diocese, which was accepted.
On Sunday, the Hindu community of Ceuta and Melilla, two autonomous Spanish communities located on the coast of North Africa, was finishing celebrations for Ganesh, deity with the body of a child and an elephant head that’s worshiped as the god of protection and good luck.

[…]

According to the note issued by the diocese, the Hindu community only intended to leave a floral offering outside the Catholic Church, and that they had no plans of doing a joint interreligious event.

A video available in YouTube of the events, shows how the image of the pagan deity is first venerated at the door of the church, with the community that paraded it around the city’s center singing a salve intended for the Virgin Mary.

The objection, some observed in Spain, wasn’t that the group wanted to stop at the church and pay its respects to Mary, but that the vicar opened the doors for the deity to be carried in a procession towards the altar, where they were openly welcome by Mateos.

[…]

The entrance of the pagan deity into the Church of Our Lady of Africa begins around minute 20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGMsFpHtpk8




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:09 am

Does John-Boy know about this thread? Better speak in code, fellows.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:41 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:09 am
Does John-Boy know about this thread? Better speak in code, fellows.
There seems to be little of interest to Catholic discussion here. Just a bunch of links to articles from Crux.

I am well pleased with the liturgical renewal in our diocese. Mostly restoration -- tabernacles returned to the center of the sanctuary, altar rails or kneelers provided so folks can receive Our Lord kneeling if they wish, encouraging the faithful to receive on the tongue, establishment of more schola choirs, many young priests who celebrate Mass with reverence.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:09 am

Del wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:41 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:09 am
Does John-Boy know about this thread? Better speak in code, fellows.
There seems to be little of interest to Catholic discussion here. Just a bunch of links to articles from Crux.

I am well pleased with the liturgical renewal in our diocese. Mostly restoration -- tabernacles returned to the center of the sanctuary, altar rails or kneelers provided so folks can receive Our Lord kneeling if they wish, encouraging the faithful to receive on the tongue, establishment of more schola choirs, many young priests who celebrate Mass with reverence.
Sounds like you're doing it right. We've gone the opposite direction--fundraising drives with the highest income meaning your home parish will stay in existence (except it didn't), votes on amalgamation being set aside because parishes didn't vote for what the bishop wanted, really ticked off priests so busy running between various churches that they don't have time to bless a home or accommodate meeting requests--essentially focusing on the Mass rather than Mass plus parish.

We could use a renewal here. I like Bishop Zubik and believe he's a man of God, he's just a business as usual administrative-oriented bishop where we could really use a dynamic preacher.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:13 am

+JMJ+

St. Padre Pio’s relics are touring the United States
Image
Padre Pio. (Credit: patterned via Flickr CC BY NC ND 2.0.)

A tour of Padre Pio's relics is taking place to commemorate the 130th anniversary of the saint's birth, and the 15th anniversary of his canonization. It is being sponsored by the Saint Pio Foundation, which works to promote awareness of the saintly priest and continue his work.

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Relics of St. Padre Pio will soon be touring the United States, as the second half of a two-part tour reaches a number of dioceses across the country next month.

After being on display for veneration at cathedrals across America from May 6-21, the relics will again be visiting dioceses from September 16 - October 1 this year.

The tour is taking place to commemorate the 130th anniversary of Padre Pio’s birth, and the 15th anniversary of his canonization. It is being sponsored by the Saint Pio Foundation, which works to promote awareness of the saintly priest and continue his work. The foundation raises funds for American Catholic healthcare as well as educational, social, religious, and cultural organizations. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:14 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:09 am
Del wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:41 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:09 am
Does John-Boy know about this thread? Better speak in code, fellows.
There seems to be little of interest to Catholic discussion here. Just a bunch of links to articles from Crux.

I am well pleased with the liturgical renewal in our diocese. Mostly restoration -- tabernacles returned to the center of the sanctuary, altar rails or kneelers provided so folks can receive Our Lord kneeling if they wish, encouraging the faithful to receive on the tongue, establishment of more schola choirs, many young priests who celebrate Mass with reverence.
Sounds like you're doing it right. We've gone the opposite direction--fundraising drives with the highest income meaning your home parish will stay in existence (except it didn't), votes on amalgamation being set aside because parishes didn't vote for what the bishop wanted, really ticked off priests so busy running between various churches that they don't have time to bless a home or accommodate meeting requests--essentially focusing on the Mass rather than Mass plus parish.

We could use a renewal here. I like Bishop Zubik and believe he's a man of God, he's just a business as usual administrative-oriented bishop where we could really use a dynamic preacher.
It seems like the experiment has been done, and we know the results.

Dioceses with traditional worship and customs are thriving and sustainable (Lincoln, Nebraska).
Turning from modern fads and restoring reverence in worship can turn a diocese around (Madison, WI).

Just have to endure push-back from the lavender mafia, the EMHC's, the guitar strummers and piano bangers, and the parents of those cute little girl altar boys.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:33 pm

wosbald wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:13 am
+JMJ+

St. Padre Pio’s relics are touring the United States
Image
Padre Pio. (Credit: patterned via Flickr CC BY NC ND 2.0.)

A tour of Padre Pio's relics is taking place to commemorate the 130th anniversary of the saint's birth, and the 15th anniversary of his canonization. It is being sponsored by the Saint Pio Foundation, which works to promote awareness of the saintly priest and continue his work.

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Relics of St. Padre Pio will soon be touring the United States, as the second half of a two-part tour reaches a number of dioceses across the country next month.

After being on display for veneration at cathedrals across America from May 6-21, the relics will again be visiting dioceses from September 16 - October 1 this year.

The tour is taking place to commemorate the 130th anniversary of Padre Pio’s birth, and the 15th anniversary of his canonization. It is being sponsored by the Saint Pio Foundation, which works to promote awareness of the saintly priest and continue his work. The foundation raises funds for American Catholic healthcare as well as educational, social, religious, and cultural organizations. …

I got to see them! Well, not see them. I had to get back to court. But I heard the Mass said in their presence and my mother brought a giant fistful of rosaries to bless.

I like Padre Pio. I like Pier Giorgio Frassati. Different lives. Same faith. We could use more focus on both of them, if you ask me.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:24 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:33 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:13 am
+JMJ+

St. Padre Pio’s relics are touring the United States
Image
Padre Pio. (Credit: patterned via Flickr CC BY NC ND 2.0.)

A tour of Padre Pio's relics is taking place to commemorate the 130th anniversary of the saint's birth, and the 15th anniversary of his canonization. It is being sponsored by the Saint Pio Foundation, which works to promote awareness of the saintly priest and continue his work.

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Relics of St. Padre Pio will soon be touring the United States, as the second half of a two-part tour reaches a number of dioceses across the country next month.

After being on display for veneration at cathedrals across America from May 6-21, the relics will again be visiting dioceses from September 16 - October 1 this year.

The tour is taking place to commemorate the 130th anniversary of Padre Pio’s birth, and the 15th anniversary of his canonization. It is being sponsored by the Saint Pio Foundation, which works to promote awareness of the saintly priest and continue his work. The foundation raises funds for American Catholic healthcare as well as educational, social, religious, and cultural organizations. …

I got to see them! Well, not see them. I had to get back to court. But I heard the Mass said in their presence and my mother brought a giant fistful of rosaries to bless.

I like Padre Pio. I like Pier Giorgio Frassati. Different lives. Same faith. We could use more focus on both of them, if you ask me.
We had a guest speaker at our men's renewal group, a year or two ago. They guy had a fierce devotion to St. Padre Pio, and dozens of great stories of his life and miracles.

His grandfather had served in Italy during WWII. He met Padre Pio, had his soul read and made confession, experienced a tremendous conversion then.

Grandfather used to spend time with the friars of San Giovanni Rotondo. He persuaded some of the younger friars to secretly give him some bloody bandages from Padre Pio's stigmata. Padre Pio scolded Grandfather for this, although no one knows how Padre Pio found out. (Lesson:Don't hide secrets from a guy who can read your soul.)

The guest speaker brought the blood-stained gauze to the talk, so we could see and touch out rosaries and such to these first-class relics.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:21 am

+JMJ+

‘Shalom alechem!’ Pope Francis greets rabbis at the Vatican, praises ‘fruitful dialogue’
Image
Argentine Rabbi Abraham Skorka embraced Pope Francis as they left after praying at the Western Wall in Jerusalem in May, 2014. (Credit: Paul Haring / CNS.)

Pope Francis welcomed rabbis from the Unites States, Europe and Israel at the Vatican, pointing to the ‘fruitful dialogue’ between the two faiths and mutual commitment to peace and cooperation. The pope also wished the delegation a happy Jewish New Year, which will begin in a few weeks.

[…]

Pope Francis referred to the fourth chapter of the document [Nostra Aetate] as the “Magna Charta of our dialogue with the Jewish world,” adding, “the ongoing implementation of the Council’s Declaration has enabled our relations to become increasingly friendly and fraternal.”

Nostra Aetate, the pope continued, illustrates that the origins of Christianity are to be found in the Patriarchs, Moses and the Prophets, which represent the mutual spiritual heritage between Catholics and Jews and pave the way for “reciprocal knowledge and respect.”

“In recent decades, we have been able to draw closer to one another and to engage in an effective and fruitful dialogue,” the pope said. “We have grown in mutual understanding and deepened our bonds of friendship.”

The statement ‘Between Jerusalem and Rome’ is not blind to the theological differences that distinguish the two faiths, however - the pope continued - “it expresses a firm resolve to collaborate more closely, now and in the future.”

Pope Francis praised the declaration’s emphasis on cooperation between Catholics and Jews toward peace, social justice and security in light of the common belief that religious and moral education - not war, coercion or social pressure - are the essential tools of religions. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:21 am

+JMJ+

Pope Francis tells Korean religious leaders to oppose “rhetoric of hatred”
Image
Members of the Daegu "Pueri Cantores" choir from South Korea play bells as Pope Francis greets the crowd during his general audience in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican May 20, 2015. (Credit: Paul Haring/CNS.)

Amidst rising tensions between North Korea and the United States, Pope Francis told an interfaith gathering of religious leaders from South Korea that they are called to be "heralds of peace, proclaiming and embodying a nonviolent style, a style of peace, with words clearly different from the narrative of fear, and with gestures opposed to the rhetoric of hatred."

[…]

“It looks to us for answers and a shared commitment to various issues: The sacred dignity of the human person, the hunger and poverty which still afflict too many peoples, the rejection of violence, in particular that violence which profanes the name of God and desecrates religion, the corruption that gives rise to injustice, moral decay, and the crisis of the family, of the economy and, not least of all, the crisis of hope,” he said.

“We are called to be heralds of peace, proclaiming and embodying a nonviolent style, a style of peace, with words clearly different from the narrative of fear, and with gestures opposed to the rhetoric of hatred,” the pope said.

Although not mentioning the North Korean threat specifically, the pope said interreligious dialogue is directed to the common good and peace, and must always be open and respectful.

“Open, that is to say warm and sincere, carried forward by persons willing to walk together with esteem and honesty,” Francis explained. “Respectful, because mutual respect is at once the condition and the goal of interreligious dialogue: Indeed, it is in respecting the right to life, physical integrity and fundamental freedoms, such as those of conscience, religion, thought and expression, that the foundations are laid for building peace, for which each of us is called to pray and work.” …




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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