THE CATHOLIC THREAD

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:13 am

+JMJ+

Reading ‘Amoris Laetitia’ in the New Light of Easter
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Copies of the post-synodal apostolic exhortation 'Amoris Laetitia' (The Joy of Love) at the Vatican press office. (Credit: Andrew Medichini/AP.)

Jesuit Father James F. Keenan says Easter week is the perfect time to re-read Pope Francis’s 'Amoris Laetitia' - or read it for the first time. He says for Christians, newness is not a contradiction of the past; it’s born from it. The newness of 'Amoris Laetitia' brilliantly brings the tradition into the present, for the sake of the future.

[…]

For Christians, newness is not a contradiction of the past; it’s born from it. The newness of Amoris brilliantly brings the tradition into the present, for the sake of the future. Our tradition must always develop, as the great theologian Marie Dominique Chenu taught; otherwise we cannot bear it into the future.

As you read Amoris, let me offer what I think is new in Amoris.
  • Amoris marks a turning point.
  • The fruit of a synodal church.
  • Pace, doctrine! It’s a pastoral exhortation.
  • The marital theology is profoundly concrete and relational.
  • Not surprisingly you need a primer to read it.
  • Moral Theology has a new task: To accompany others in the formation of their own consciences.
  • The habit of invoking one’s conscience is moral discernment.
  • Accompaniment is the model of Amoris’s ministry.
  • This accompaniment engages and does not suppress the Catholic conscience.
  • This ministry of accompaniment is not unlike the pastoral teachings of Pope John Paul II.
  • It accompanies the consciences even of the divorced and remarried Catholics.
  • Restorer of mercy.

NOTE: There's a lot of text twixt the bullet points, so reading the actual article would prolly be quite beneficial.




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:19 am

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:26 am

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It’s time for Francis and the Vatican to get tough on Venezuela
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Nuns hold placards reading "No More Dictatorship" during an opposition rally April 6 in Caracas, Venezuela. In response to a renewed constitutional crisis in the country, the Venezuelan bishops' conference has called for "peaceful civil disobedience" to restore constitutional order. (Credit: Marco Bello/Reuters via CNS.)

… It would therefore seem time for a thunderous denunciation from Francis against the Maduro regime. Certainly, the government has brought to Venezuela an “economy that kills,” with people dying for lack of food and medicine, to say nothing of protesters dying in the streets. The path of dialogue has long been abandoned by a regime that sends armed men into churches to intimidate the Church by threatening people at prayer.

[…]

More is at stake for Vatican diplomacy than the situation in Venezuela. Francis has got a wide hearing for his trenchant criticisms of economic inequality and exploitation.

He has given rhetorical and moral support to those opposed to a globalized, neo-liberal economic order. He has put his personal support behind the world meetings of popular movements, which emphasize the people in the streets and slums against elite financial interests.

His credibility on these key aspects of teaching would be compromised if he did not apply them against the Maduro regime, which has despoiled the people to protect its own political power.

If the Holy See does not adopt a tougher line against Maduro, it would make Francis’s economic interventions appear ideologically leftist rather than rooted in Catholic social teaching.

The silence of the Urbi et Orbi suggests that the Holy See has not yet figured out how it wants to proceed.




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:16 am

+JMJ+

The ‘Benedict Option’ is not enough
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This is the cover of "The Benedict Option: A Strategy for Christians in a Post-Christian Nation" by Rod Dreher. (Credit: CNS.)

Theologian Michael Baxter offers a critique of “The Benedict Option,” in which writer Rod Dreher proposes Christians withdraw from political life in America. Baxter says Dreher is right to seek a more robust form of Christian commitment shaping how we live, but has a flawed understanding of how “Christian” the United States has been in the past.

[…]

But no, I don’t agree that this all came to a head in 2013 with the Indiana religious freedom statue being rescinded and then the Supreme Court decision affirming the right for gays to marry. Dreher sees 2013 and gay marriage as the point of no return. I don’t see it that way.

How do you see it?

Christians should be as troubled, indeed more troubled, by war, poverty, racism in the United States than Dreher seems to be. Writing as a “conservative Christian,” as a “values voter,” as he calls himself at one point, Dreher’s timeline and plotline are warped accordingly.

[…]

How would you rewrite the timeline?

One point of no return would be firebombing German and Japanese cities in World War II, followed by dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Another, earlier point of no return would be the U.S. entering into the wholesale human catastrophe we call World War I.


But in reality, I don’t think there was a time when America was Christian and thus I don’t think of this story in terms of decline, falling away, losing the Christian values “we” once cherished. The United States was founded as a slave nation. It was “settled” by massacring the peoples living on the land or relocating them, deporting them from what was their homeland. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri May 05, 2017 5:55 am

+JMJ+

Trump to meet Pope Francis on May 24
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Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, OH, July 18-21, 2016. (Credit: Addie Mena / CNA.)

ROME - The Vatican confirmed on Thursday what has long been rumored, which is that President Donald Trump will indeed meet Pope Francis when he comes to Italy for a G7 summit in late May.

The long-anticipated tête-à-tête between Francis and Trump will take place on Wednesday, May 24, at 8:30 am Rome time, meaning 2:30 am on the East Coast of the United States, in the Vatican’s Apostolic Palace. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sat May 06, 2017 9:20 am

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American Padre Pio moves a step closer to sainthood
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Capuchin Father Solanus Casey at a Detroit soup kitchen. On May 4, Pope Francis approved a miracle clearing the way for Casey's beatification. (Credit: Solanus Casey Center.)

… Padre Pio is the famous Capuchin saint of the 20th century, renowned for having the stigmata, for his other thaumaturgical abilities, for his mammoth commitment to the confessional, and for his general compassion for simple people, especially the suffering and the sick.

Now, Pope Francis has moved an American Capuchin with the same basic profile a step closer to sainthood, approving a miracle that clears the way for the beatification of Solanus Casey, who was born in Wisconsin and who spent most of his career in Detroit.

The announcement came on Thursday, as part of a crop of sainthood decisions that also included a recognition of heroic virtue for Cardinal Nguyên Van Thuân of Vietnam, one of the towering figures of 20th century Catholicism, allowing him now to be referred to as “venerable.” …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sat May 06, 2017 11:15 am

wosbald wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 9:20 am
+JMJ+

American Padre Pio moves a step closer to sainthood
Image
Capuchin Father Solanus Casey at a Detroit soup kitchen. On May 4, Pope Francis approved a miracle clearing the way for Casey's beatification. (Credit: Solanus Casey Center.)

… Padre Pio is the famous Capuchin saint of the 20th century, renowned for having the stigmata, for his other thaumaturgical abilities, for his mammoth commitment to the confessional, and for his general compassion for simple people, especially the suffering and the sick.

Now, Pope Francis has moved an American Capuchin with the same basic profile a step closer to sainthood, approving a miracle that clears the way for the beatification of Solanus Casey, who was born in Wisconsin and who spent most of his career in Detroit.

The announcement came on Thursday, as part of a crop of sainthood decisions that also included a recognition of heroic virtue for Cardinal Nguyên Van Thuân of Vietnam, one of the towering figures of 20th century Catholicism, allowing him now to be referred to as “venerable.” …
Good. No question in my mind these men are saints. I love Solanus.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Jocose » Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm

Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sat May 06, 2017 12:38 pm

Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
Very, very rare and the Church is always very skeptical. Some are just so united to the Passion that they ask to share His pain. Rarely, rarely does it happen, often to those who seek to repent for us all.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Jocose » Sat May 06, 2017 2:12 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:38 pm
Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
Very, very rare and the Church is always very skeptical. Some are just so united to the Passion that they ask to share His pain. Rarely, rarely does it happen, often to those who seek to repent for us all.
Interesting, thanks for the thoughts.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue May 09, 2017 12:13 pm

Just got a chance to hear mass and venerate the relics of Padre Pio. I saw a dude that looked like Wosbald.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by DepartedLight » Tue May 09, 2017 6:26 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 12:13 pm
Just got a chance to hear mass and venerate the relics of Padre Pio. I saw a dude that looked like Wosbald.
Nice.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by DepartedLight » Tue May 09, 2017 6:33 pm

Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
The point is up to to Christ.

He meets us where we are. He decides what He places upon His faithful forHis own good purpose.

Jo. Love you, bro. You continue to fall into a path well traveled into us v.them. Flee from it!

I can't be more serious.

Pray and fast. Ponder and meditate.
DL Jake

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Jocose » Tue May 09, 2017 6:35 pm

DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:33 pm
Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
The point is up to to Christ.

He meets us where we are. He decides what He places upon His faithful forHis own good purpose.

Jo. Love you, bro. You continue to fall into a path well traveled into us v.them. Flee from it!

I can't be more serious.

Pray and fast. Ponder and meditate.
What the deuce? I was asking a question in the Catholic thread. Not stirring the pot or going us vs. them.
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by DepartedLight » Tue May 09, 2017 7:01 pm

Jocose wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:35 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:33 pm
Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
The point is up to to Christ.

He meets us where we are. He decides what He places upon His faithful forHis own good purpose.

Jo. Love you, bro. You continue to fall into a path well traveled into us v.them. Flee from it!

I can't be more serious.

Pray and fast. Ponder and meditate.
What the deuce? I was asking a question in the Catholic thread. Not stirring the pot or going us vs. them.
The deuce is the red flags I am seeing. From my personal experiences. Jo. You are in a very unique place. Be careful. Be cautious.
DL Jake

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Jocose » Tue May 09, 2017 7:40 pm

DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 7:01 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:35 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:33 pm
Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
The point is up to to Christ.

He meets us where we are. He decides what He places upon His faithful forHis own good purpose.

Jo. Love you, bro. You continue to fall into a path well traveled into us v.them. Flee from it!

I can't be more serious.

Pray and fast. Ponder and meditate.
What the deuce? I was asking a question in the Catholic thread. Not stirring the pot or going us vs. them.
The deuce is the red flags I am seeing. From my personal experiences. Jo. You are in a very unique place. Be careful. Be cautious.
Uh, ok, thanks. I had a serious question and what better thread to ask it in. Not sure I'm following.
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

I've crossed the Bosphorus.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Skip » Tue May 09, 2017 9:01 pm

Jocose wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 7:40 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 7:01 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:35 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:33 pm
Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
The point is up to to Christ.

He meets us where we are. He decides what He places upon His faithful forHis own good purpose.

Jo. Love you, bro. You continue to fall into a path well traveled into us v.them. Flee from it!

I can't be more serious.

Pray and fast. Ponder and meditate.
What the deuce? I was asking a question in the Catholic thread. Not stirring the pot or going us vs. them.
The deuce is the red flags I am seeing. From my personal experiences. Jo. You are in a very unique place. Be careful. Be cautious.
Uh, ok, thanks. I had a serious question and what better thread to ask it in. Not sure I'm following.
Me either.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Tue May 09, 2017 9:44 pm

Skip wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 9:01 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 7:40 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 7:01 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:35 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:33 pm
Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
The point is up to to Christ.

He meets us where we are. He decides what He places upon His faithful forHis own good purpose.

Jo. Love you, bro. You continue to fall into a path well traveled into us v.them. Flee from it!

I can't be more serious.

Pray and fast. Ponder and meditate.
What the deuce? I was asking a question in the Catholic thread. Not stirring the pot or going us vs. them.
The deuce is the red flags I am seeing. From my personal experiences. Jo. You are in a very unique place. Be careful. Be cautious.
Uh, ok, thanks. I had a serious question and what better thread to ask it in. Not sure I'm following.
Me either.
*sigh*

I'm not taking sides here, just sharing my own experience as well. DL also has his own extensive experience on this and I make no refute of that. First of all there WILL be some "us vs them" AND "some us and them" when dealing with Orthodox/Catholic interaction. That's the reality of the situation. That's my opinion and experience on the matter.

It is normal for many Orthodox in America, especially formerly Protestant/Evangelical converts to Orthodoxy to wonder about the Roman Church and it's practices. Most of the time Orthodox converts of that type usually adopt a more friendly and open position toward Rome than what they had before because they recognize a kindred spirit of sorts most of the time. Of course, some things remain weird to them, things like the stigmata for example. So Jo's question may well be purely based in curiousity. I know I fealt intensely curious about both communions in those early years and it continued throughout.

It is also possible and my own experience that a decision or choice had to be made between those two traditions. That wreaked havoc on me personally for years. I found it incredibly hard to place 100 percent of my faith in "the church" because I personally never fully trusted either because of the other's existence. More precisely, I never fully trusted my choice and never believed that God made it very clear to me. Both claimed the same basic thing, and both existed together since the time of the early church. Both could make some really good justifications for their respective positions.

So as DL knows it very often ends up in an "us vs them" impasse sooner or later if for no other reason justification for why Orthodoxy claims to be the church. What I don't understand is how DL believes this can be avoided unless he believes there isn't an actual schism between them.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by GiantNinja » Tue May 09, 2017 9:48 pm

Jocose wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm
Just curious guys, What's the point of Stigmata? This doesn't happen in The Orthodox Church AFAIK and the church doesn't have any official opinions on it.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'the point', Jo. It *sounds* like you're suggesting there was some thought/intention by Popes and/or Catholic theologians into whether there SHOULD BE Stigmata.

DL's answer above (I believe/interpret) was suggesting that (from a Catholic perspective) Stigmata ARE. They are a gift from Christ. We don't pretend to know why Christ gave them to us. We can theorize on it. But we can't *know* why He chose to gift some of His disciples with the Stigmata.

Does that help?
And what is good, Phaedrus? And what is not good?
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue May 09, 2017 9:56 pm

You people are why I can't have nice things.
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