THE CATHOLIC THREAD

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:05 pm

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:34 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:50 pm
Troubling, if not scandalous:

http://www.lifenews.com/2017/06/14/vati ... e-academy/
Vatican Names Pro-Abortion Philosopher to Pro-Life Academy

....

Biggar, a professor of theology at the University of Oxford in the United Kingdom, has made past statements in support of abortion and possibly even limited euthanasia, The National Catholic Register reports.

During a conversation with pro-abortion, pro-infanticide Professor Peter Singer, Biggar once said he thinks abortions should be legal up to 18 weeks after an unborn baby’s conception, The Catholic Herald reports.

“I would be inclined to draw the line for abortion at 18 weeks after conception, which is roughly about the earliest time when there is some evidence of brain activity, and therefore of consciousness,” Biggar said in 2011.

He continued: “It’s not clear that a human foetus is the same kind of thing as an adult or a mature human being, and therefore deserves quite the same treatment. It then becomes a question of where we draw the line, and there is no absolutely cogent reason for drawing it in one place over another.”
A somewhat unrelated story, to balance the above:

Pope Francis Gives Catholic Church’s Highest Layperson Honor to Top Pro-Life Attorney
Pope Francis has honored Alliance Defending Freedom Founder Alan Sears and his wife, Paula, with the highest honor that the pope can bestow upon laypeople by knighting them into the Order of St. Gregory the Great. The pope bestows the honor upon both Catholic and non-Catholic men and women for having shown, “by their sustained service, extraordinary love for Jesus Christ and His Church” in their communities and countries.
ADF is a pro bono legal charity which helps individuals and groups defend their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and free exercise of religion, as well as pro-life activists who are threatened by legal actions of oppressive governing bodies.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:33 am

+JMJ+

Academy for Life no longer an 'enclave of the ideologically pure'
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The Rev. Nigel Biggar. (Credit: Youtube.)

The chorus of criticism from former members of the Pontifical Academy for Life (PAV) at the new appointees to the pope’s advisory board on life issues illustrates perfectly why the makeover was necessary.

Their fire has been directed, above all, at Rev. Nigel Biggar, an Anglican clergyman and moral theologian who is Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at Christchurch College, Oxford, and director of the McDonald Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Life. He is one of a handful of non-Catholics among the 45 new members from 27 countries announced last week.

Former members, notably the British bioethicist Luke Gormally and Christine Vollmer, president of the Latin-American Alliance for the Family, have described Biggar’s appointment as a “scandal” and “shocking” because the theologian once gave an interview in which he said he could imagine abortion being morally permissible up to 18 weeks from conception (a more conservative position, given that British law allows for abortion up to 24 weeks).

[…]

The new PAV membership is packed with impressive Catholics known for their pro-life witness and fidelity to Catholic doctrine, as well as experts — among them a Nobel Prize in Medicine — who will bring great credibility, as well as intellectual heft, to the PAV. They represent, says Paglia, the academy’s “passion for human life.”

But they also represent an attempt by Francis and Paglia to break free of the stranglehold of a pro-life activism closely tied to traditionalist and conservative family-values politics, which has undermined the PAV’s credibility and hindered its pro-life witness. (Gormally, for example, is one of a number of traditionalist signatories to a letter claiming that Amoris Laetitia contains “dangers to Catholic faith and morals”).

[…]

Rather than the ungracious language of “shocking” and “scandalous,” we should be welcoming the non-Catholic experts such as Biggar, and saying: “thank you for giving your time to the PAV; we — and the pro-life cause — will greatly benefit from your presence.”




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:43 pm

wosbald wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:33 am
+JMJ+

Academy for Life no longer an 'enclave of the ideologically pure'
Image
The Rev. Nigel Biggar. (Credit: Youtube.)

The chorus of criticism from former members of the Pontifical Academy for Life (PAV) at the new appointees to the pope’s advisory board on life issues illustrates perfectly why the makeover was necessary.

Their fire has been directed, above all, at Rev. Nigel Biggar, an Anglican clergyman and moral theologian who is Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at Christchurch College, Oxford, and director of the McDonald Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Life. He is one of a handful of non-Catholics among the 45 new members from 27 countries announced last week.

Former members, notably the British bioethicist Luke Gormally and Christine Vollmer, president of the Latin-American Alliance for the Family, have described Biggar’s appointment as a “scandal” and “shocking” because the theologian once gave an interview in which he said he could imagine abortion being morally permissible up to 18 weeks from conception (a more conservative position, given that British law allows for abortion up to 24 weeks).

[…]

The new PAV membership is packed with impressive Catholics known for their pro-life witness and fidelity to Catholic doctrine, as well as experts — among them a Nobel Prize in Medicine — who will bring great credibility, as well as intellectual heft, to the PAV. They represent, says Paglia, the academy’s “passion for human life.”

But they also represent an attempt by Francis and Paglia to break free of the stranglehold of a pro-life activism closely tied to traditionalist and conservative family-values politics, which has undermined the PAV’s credibility and hindered its pro-life witness. (Gormally, for example, is one of a number of traditionalist signatories to a letter claiming that Amoris Laetitia contains “dangers to Catholic faith and morals”).

[…]

Rather than the ungracious language of “shocking” and “scandalous,” we should be welcoming the non-Catholic experts such as Biggar, and saying: “thank you for giving your time to the PAV; we — and the pro-life cause — will greatly benefit from your presence.”
You chose to cut out some of the subjectively best parts, funny how that happens. Things like:
In its new statutes, Francis broadens out the pro-life stance away from a narrow focus on bioethics and sexuality, calling for “the promotion of a quality of human life that integrates spiritual and material values, with a view to an authentic ‘human ecology,’ which may help to recover the original balance of creation between the human person and the entire universe.”
I would like to hear more about this. What does this really mean?

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:40 pm

Nobody knows, I'm afraid.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:10 pm

+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:43 pm
In its new statutes, Francis broadens out the pro-life stance away from a narrow focus on bioethics and sexuality, calling for “the promotion of a quality of human life that integrates spiritual and material values, with a view to an authentic ‘human ecology,’ which may help to recover the original balance of creation between the human person and the entire universe.”
I would like to hear more about this. What does this really mean?
It may well be that documents like these may be easier to understand by what they are not intending to mean, as I think the previous paragraph shows:
… an attempt by Francis and Paglia to break free of the stranglehold of a pro-life activism closely tied to traditionalist and conservative family-values politics, which has undermined the PAV’s credibility and hindered its pro-life witness.
And if you need more context, here's the original document: Statute of the Pontifical Academy for Life




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:45 pm

wosbald wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:10 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:43 pm
In its new statutes, Francis broadens out the pro-life stance away from a narrow focus on bioethics and sexuality, calling for “the promotion of a quality of human life that integrates spiritual and material values, with a view to an authentic ‘human ecology,’ which may help to recover the original balance of creation between the human person and the entire universe.”
I would like to hear more about this. What does this really mean?
IMO, documents like these are easier understood by what they are not intending to mean, as I think that the previous paragraph shows:
… an attempt by Francis and Paglia to break free of the stranglehold of a pro-life activism closely tied to traditionalist and conservative family-values politics, which has undermined the PAV’s credibility and hindered its pro-life witness.
And if you need more context, here's the original document: Statute of the Pontifical Academy for Life
Right, and this is a perceived problem for the Pope to overcome in hopes of gaining a broader support for other concerns from other groups of people. I'm curious as to how these new appointments are thought to improve that situation. I'm sure there's much I don't know going on that isn't being addressed as you noted.

A quick search found an opinion that resonates with me quite a bit. From a Jesuit publication:

Peer Pressure: A new Catholic wonders how to be pro-life.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:57 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:43 pm
You chose to cut out some of the subjectively best parts, funny how that happens. Things like:
In its new statutes, Francis broadens out the pro-life stance away from a narrow focus on bioethics and sexuality, calling for “the promotion of a quality of human life that integrates spiritual and material values, with a view to an authentic ‘human ecology,’ which may help to recover the original balance of creation between the human person and the entire universe.”
I would like to hear more about this. What does this really mean?
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:40 pm
Nobody knows, I'm afraid.
Francis is not a teacher. Which is fine, as long as we do not expect him to speak with clarity and precision.

Francis wants us to think for ourselves, remembering the love for all things that is central to the Christian Tradition.

So here is what Francis is saying to me:

We must remember love for future generations of our own... so the first thing is that we must not kill our own children. We must be willing to make the sacrifices that it takes to welcome a child, if we are going to do the things that make a child.

And we must show our love for future generations of all families.... and therefore strive to hand them a world that is better than we found it. This means economic and social and environmental improvements.

And we must love the natural creation for its own sake, preserving and improving for future generations the gifts that God has given us.

As with all love, these require me to make sacrifices so that others may enjoy. I have to tend to my duties more, instead of insisting on my rights.

This thinking runs contrary to modern selfishness.
- A woman's duty to preserve the innocent life developing within her surpasses her "right" to "control her own body."
- We have to wear helmets on our motorcycles and bicycles and seatbelts in our cars because our lives belong to the community more than our thrills belong to ourselves.
- Our charity works to the community are more important than our greed to hoard wealth and resources.
- Our hyper-consumptive life styles are rapacious.
And so one.

There is something in here to challenge leftists, capitalists, and libertarians. A holistic worldview is needed.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:11 pm

But you must admit, Del, that's what it means to you. It might mean something very different to the Maryknoll Fathers.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:17 am

+JMJ+

'If you don't think Francis is the cure, you don't grasp the disease,' CL head says
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Father Julián Carrón, leader of the Catholic movement Communion and Liberation. (Credit: Communion and Liberation.)

Although some Catholics, especially the more conservative sort, often find Pope Francis a bit of a shock to the system, the leader of the Church's influential Communion and Liberation movement says that if you don't think this pontiff is the cure, then you don't understand the nature of the disease we're facing in a post-modern, secular world.

MILAN – Probably better than most, Father Julián Carrón, the successor of the legendary Italian Father Luigi Giussani as leader of the influential Communion and Liberation movement, whose natural base is among more conservative Catholics, understands that Pope Francis can be a shock to the system.

Yet he’s still an unabashed Francis fan, who insists that if you don’t think this pope is the cure, then you don’t understand the disease we’re facing in the post-modern world.

[…]

“The changes we’re living through are so radical, so unprecedented, that I get why many people just don’t understand what’s happening or the gestures of Pope Francis,” he said. “But if we don’t understand those gestures now, we will in a time when we see the consequences they’re leading to.”

Carrón argued that what’s happened in modernity is that people have lost site of what it means to be a human being, so the crisis is much deeper than simply the rejection of this or that ethical precept, and that what’s needed now is not so much moral exhortation or theological argument, but the attractive power of a fully Christian life.

[…]

Far from seeing a rupture between Francis and his immediate predecessors, John Paul II and Benedict XVI, Carrón insists that Francis is actually the “radicalization” of Benedict.

“He says the same thing, but in a way that it gets across to everyone in a simple way through gestures, without in any sense reducing the density of what Benedict said,” he said. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by John-Boy » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:26 pm

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Kerdy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:39 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:42 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:11 am
+JMJ+

Immigration arrests stun Detroit’s Chaldean Catholics
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Friends and family view a bus outside the U.S. Detention and Deportation Center in Detroit, Sunday, June 11, 2017. A mass immigration and deportation sweep and arrest of dozens of Chaldeans in southeastern Michigan by U.S. immigration officials prompted the protest outside the detention center. Family members of the Catholics with Iraqi roots who were arrested indicate most had criminal records and were awaiting deportation. (Credit: Gus Burns/Mlive.com via AP.)

DETROIT - Dozens of Chaldean Christians were arrested by federal immigration officials over the weekend in the Detroit metropolitan area, leaving the local Church community with sadness and frustration.

“Yesterday was a very strange and painful day for our community in America,” Bishop Francis Kalabat of the Chaldean Catholic Eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle of Detroit stated Monday in a Facebook post.

“With the many Chaldeans that were awakened by Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents and consequently picked up for deportation, there is a lot of confusion and anger,” he added.

Fr. Anthony Kathawa of St. Thomas Chaldean Church in West Bloomfield, Michigan, told Catholic News Agency June 12 that “As a community, we’re all suffering seeing the loss of our loved ones.”

On Sunday, the Detroit Free Press reported that ICE made around 40 arrests of Chaldeans in the Detroit area, according to community leaders.
ICE explained in a statement that Iraq, in negotiations with the U.S., had “agreed to accept” the individuals, who had criminal records.

“As a result of recent negotiations between the U.S. and Iraq, Iraq has recently agreed to accept a number of Iraqi nationals subject to orders of removal,” ICE stated.

A federal judge had also “ordered them removed,” ICE said, noting that their previous criminal offenses included homicide, rape, sexual assault, kidnapping, and “weapons violations.”

A “majority” of those detained are now at the Northeast Ohio Correctional Center in Youngstown, Ohio.

Many of those with criminal records have served their time in prison and have since become good citizens and members of the community, local church leaders insisted. …
Saw this story on EWTN.

Christians are moving back into bombed-out Mosul.

But in America, the Trump Administration has not moved swiftly or humanely in favor of Christians displaced from Syria or Iraq as we had hoped. It is still as bad as the Obama Administration.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:39 am

+JMJ+

British author challenges dubia cardinals, calls abuse of Pope ‘satanic’
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Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke attends a news conference by the conservative Catholic group "Voice of the Family" in Rome, on October 15, 2015. (Credit: Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Alessandro Bianchi.)

Stephen Walford, a British Catholic author, has challenged the four cardinals who submitted doubts about 'Amoris Laetitita' to Pope Francis to change course, arguing they're largely wrong on the merits and also fueling a 'satanic' form of abuse directed at the pontiff on traditionalist and conservative websites and blogs.

ROME - In an essay published by “Vatican Insider” today in three languages, a British Catholic author has challenged the four cardinals who submitted a set of dubia, or doubts, about Amoris Laetitia to Pope Francis to drop their opposition, arguing they’re largely wrong on the merits and fueling abuse directed at the pontiff and his supporters.

“We cannot come to any other conclusion than Pope Francis …has legitimately made possible the reception of Holy Communion for the divorced and remarried in certain carefully considered cases where grace is working in their souls, and a sincere desire to strive for holiness is present,” Stephen Walford writes.

“If we cannot accept this premise,” Walford adds, “then we are not accepting the teaching of previous popes.”

Walford also warns the four cardinals about forces in the Church their perceived resistance to Pope Francis is encouraging.

“The abuse from many, including those who run websites and traditionalist blogs aimed at the Holy Father and those who are loyal to him, is nothing short of satanic,” he writes.

“In the desire for the unity of the Church around Peter, it is essential to affirm the pope has the authority - ratified in heaven - to make disciplinary changes for the good of some divorced and remarried souls, and so I ask you to bring to an end this situation by accepting the constant tradition of the Church that popes are free from error in matters of faith and morals,” he says. …




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:44 am

wosbald wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:39 am
+JMJ+

British author challenges dubia cardinals, calls abuse of Pope ‘satanic’
Image
Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke attends a news conference by the conservative Catholic group "Voice of the Family" in Rome, on October 15, 2015. (Credit: Photo courtesy of REUTERS/Alessandro Bianchi.)

Stephen Walford, a British Catholic author, has challenged the four cardinals who submitted doubts about 'Amoris Laetitita' to Pope Francis to change course, arguing they're largely wrong on the merits and also fueling a 'satanic' form of abuse directed at the pontiff on traditionalist and conservative websites and blogs.

ROME - In an essay published by “Vatican Insider” today in three languages, a British Catholic author has challenged the four cardinals who submitted a set of dubia, or doubts, about Amoris Laetitia to Pope Francis to drop their opposition, arguing they’re largely wrong on the merits and fueling abuse directed at the pontiff and his supporters.

“We cannot come to any other conclusion than Pope Francis …has legitimately made possible the reception of Holy Communion for the divorced and remarried in certain carefully considered cases where grace is working in their souls, and a sincere desire to strive for holiness is present,” Stephen Walford writes.

“If we cannot accept this premise,” Walford adds, “then we are not accepting the teaching of previous popes.”

Walford also warns the four cardinals about forces in the Church their perceived resistance to Pope Francis is encouraging.

“The abuse from many, including those who run websites and traditionalist blogs aimed at the Holy Father and those who are loyal to him, is nothing short of satanic,” he writes.

“In the desire for the unity of the Church around Peter, it is essential to affirm the pope has the authority - ratified in heaven - to make disciplinary changes for the good of some divorced and remarried souls, and so I ask you to bring to an end this situation by accepting the constant tradition of the Church that popes are free from error in matters of faith and morals,” he says. …
Oy! :?

Dubia are a respectful way for bishops and cardinals to discuss controversial questions with the Pope. They give the Pontiff an opportunity to explain himself.... or to let the issues remain unresolved and open to further discussion.

As Pope Francis has not responded to the dubia, it is okay for a British author to question back and provide his own comments.

But his calling the dubia satanic is a bit extreme, eh? And casually suggesting that those who are concerned about the dubia are being disloyal to the Pope.... sounds like this is a political screed. "Are you loyal to the pope, or are you satanic?"
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:30 pm

+JMJ+

The Incoherence of “Just Clarify Amoris! Answer the Dubia!”
Image
Nikolai Ge, “What is Truth?” (1890)

… So the [“Seeking clarity to Amoris Laetitia, one year later”] conference “challenged Pope Francis’ teaching,” and yet it still says that “clarity” is needed and he must answer the dubia? If those at the conference are unclear, what is there to challenge? The pope hasn’t answered the dubia, so how do they know whether they should challenge Chapter 8 or accept chapter 8? They have “distanced themselves from” the pope? Why? Because they have already made up their minds. They judge him guilty first, then say, “well, we just want answers to honest questions.”

I am afraid that is not how it works. It is not dubia, but duplicity. But all this sheds light, too, on Cardinal Burke’s refrain that, without answers to dubia, he will have no choice but to “formally correct” Pope Francis? On what? If Amoris Laetitia is heretical, why do you submit dubia? For a clarification or a conviction? If Amoris Laetitia is not heretical, what are you correcting? If you don’t know, why do you presume guilt?

Perhaps Pope Francis does not answer the dubia, not because he thinks clarity is bad, but because he can discern when a questioner has malicious intent and is seeking, not clarity, but entrapment. The Pharisees had already judged Jesus guilty; they just wanted grounds to convict him. Even an orthodox answer they would interpet as heresy and guilt. Which—you know the story—is exactly what they did.

Nothing new under the sun.




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by TNLawPiper » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:24 pm

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:41 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by TNLawPiper » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:44 pm

Thunktank wrote:
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#convertproblems

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:59 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:44 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:41 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
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#convertproblems

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:02 am

+JMJ+

Pope dedicates July to praying for those distant from the faith
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Pope Francis leaves at the end of a mass he celebrated in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican, Thursday, June 29, 2017. (Credit: AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia.)

ROME - In his prayer video for the month of July, Pope Francis has asked Christians to join him in praying for those who have strayed from the faith, providing hope to them through the witness of our joy and actions.

“Let us never forget that our joy is Jesus Christ - his faithful and inexhaustible love,” the pope says at the opening of the video, depicting a man in dark-colored clothing sitting on steps outside of a Church.

“When a Christian becomes sad, it means that he has distanced himself from Jesus,” he says, stressing that “we must not leave him alone!”

Rather, “we should offer him Christian hope - with our words, yes, but more with our testimony, with our freedom, with our joy,” Francis says, as a second man, dressed in white, then walks out of the church and sits next to the man on the steps.

The video then shows several images of happy people, including a group smiling while receiving catechesis, youth dancing during World Youth Day and hands praying the rosary.

At the close of the video, the pope makes his appeal, saying “let us pray that our brothers and sisters who have strayed from the faith, through our prayer and witness to the Gospel, may rediscover the beauty of the Christian life.” …




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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