I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Where Fellowship and Camaraderie lives: that place where the CPS membership values fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community
Post Reply
User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35996
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:46 am

hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:09 am
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:23 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:57 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:53 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:47 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:08 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:06 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:58 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:47 am


No, no, no. It's "Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care." An admirable sentiment if properly expressed.
You’re wrong and the Massa is dead too.
My, my. Have we failed again?
Lol! I don’t know, have you?

The church hierarchy sure does when it comes to sexual abuse though. Again and again from one corner of the world to the next. I’m waiting to see if bishop Barros gets a promotion next. I lied, I do care.
Lol. Every day I screw something up. Luckily, my wife is usually there to tell me.

I'm with you, btw. The church doesn't root out and pillory the people that need it. Turn them over to the secular arm and let justice take its course.
Do you know any expensive lawyers they could turn to for salvation?
No, but I can introduce them to a putz in Wisconsin that isn't quite as bright as he thinks he is.
Who, me?

I don't even try to be bright.

Mostly, I just state the obvious.
Don't be so vain, my friend. Nor sell yourself so short. I've never thought you to state the obvious.

I meant Father Greiten.
:lol: Well played, my friend! :lol:

I would love to see you and Giant Ninja spar over pipes and drinks sometime. We could sell tickets!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 15757
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:35 am

Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:46 am
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:09 am
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:23 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:57 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:53 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:47 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:08 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:06 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:58 am


You’re wrong and the Massa is dead too.
My, my. Have we failed again?
Lol! I don’t know, have you?

The church hierarchy sure does when it comes to sexual abuse though. Again and again from one corner of the world to the next. I’m waiting to see if bishop Barros gets a promotion next. I lied, I do care.
Lol. Every day I screw something up. Luckily, my wife is usually there to tell me.

I'm with you, btw. The church doesn't root out and pillory the people that need it. Turn them over to the secular arm and let justice take its course.
Do you know any expensive lawyers they could turn to for salvation?
No, but I can introduce them to a putz in Wisconsin that isn't quite as bright as he thinks he is.
Who, me?

I don't even try to be bright.

Mostly, I just state the obvious.
Don't be so vain, my friend. Nor sell yourself so short. I've never thought you to state the obvious.

I meant Father Greiten.
:lol: Well played, my friend! :lol:

I would love to see you and Giant Ninja spar over pipes and drinks sometime. We could sell tickets!
With no insult, I have no desire. I would like to perhaps meet him some day, but I have no desire to spar with him for the amusement of the unwashed.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35996
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:18 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:35 am
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:46 am
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:09 am
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:23 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:57 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:53 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:47 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:08 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:06 pm


My, my. Have we failed again?
Lol! I don’t know, have you?

The church hierarchy sure does when it comes to sexual abuse though. Again and again from one corner of the world to the next. I’m waiting to see if bishop Barros gets a promotion next. I lied, I do care.
Lol. Every day I screw something up. Luckily, my wife is usually there to tell me.

I'm with you, btw. The church doesn't root out and pillory the people that need it. Turn them over to the secular arm and let justice take its course.
Do you know any expensive lawyers they could turn to for salvation?
No, but I can introduce them to a putz in Wisconsin that isn't quite as bright as he thinks he is.
Who, me?

I don't even try to be bright.

Mostly, I just state the obvious.
Don't be so vain, my friend. Nor sell yourself so short. I've never thought you to state the obvious.

I meant Father Greiten.
:lol: Well played, my friend! :lol:

I would love to see you and Giant Ninja spar over pipes and drinks sometime. We could sell tickets!
With no insult, I have no desire. I would like to perhaps meet him some day, but I have no desire to spar with him for the amusement of the unwashed.
the tickets were a joke, of course.

You two would enjoy each other, very much.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 15757
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:30 pm

Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:18 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:35 am
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:46 am
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:09 am
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:23 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:57 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:53 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:47 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:08 pm


Lol! I don’t know, have you?

The church hierarchy sure does when it comes to sexual abuse though. Again and again from one corner of the world to the next. I’m waiting to see if bishop Barros gets a promotion next. I lied, I do care.
Lol. Every day I screw something up. Luckily, my wife is usually there to tell me.

I'm with you, btw. The church doesn't root out and pillory the people that need it. Turn them over to the secular arm and let justice take its course.
Do you know any expensive lawyers they could turn to for salvation?
No, but I can introduce them to a putz in Wisconsin that isn't quite as bright as he thinks he is.
Who, me?

I don't even try to be bright.

Mostly, I just state the obvious.
Don't be so vain, my friend. Nor sell yourself so short. I've never thought you to state the obvious.

I meant Father Greiten.
:lol: Well played, my friend! :lol:

I would love to see you and Giant Ninja spar over pipes and drinks sometime. We could sell tickets!
With no insult, I have no desire. I would like to perhaps meet him some day, but I have no desire to spar with him for the amusement of the unwashed.
the tickets were a joke, of course.

You two would enjoy each other, very much.
I know, brother. I just find no victory in sparring over religious matters. Especially with a fellow Catholic--we are all of the same faith. It's usually more of an eye opening experience, to be frank--revelatory, a perspective change.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18243
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:14 am

+JMJ+

Pope Francis sends special prosecutor to Chile to investigate charges against Bishop Barros
Image
Pope Francis meets with Bishops at the Sacristy of the Cathedral of Santiago, Chile, Tuesday, Jan. 16, 2018. (Luca Zennaro/Pool via AP)

In a stunning move of the utmost importance, the Vatican today announced that Pope Francis has decided to send Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta to Chile to listen to the victims that accuse Bishop Juan Barros of being present when they were abused by the country’s most notorious predator, the Rev. Fernando Karadima, and of covering this up.

The Vatican statement, issued in Italian and Spanish, said:
As a result of some information received recently regarding the case of Monsignor Juan de La Cruz Barros Madrid, Bishop of Osorno (Chile), the Holy Father has decided that Msgr. Charles Scicluna, the archbishop of Malta and President of the College for the examination of appeals (“in materia delicta graviora,” “in matters of grave crimes”) in the Ordinary Session of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is to go to Chile to hear those who have expressed their wish to submit elements in their possession.
Sources told America that Francis made the crucial decision a few days after returning to the Vatican from his weeklong visit to Chile and Peru during which he had staunchly defended Bishop Barros against those who accused him of cover-up, saying they had not yet produced proof or evidence for such charges, and consequently the allegations can be considered “calumny.”

[…]

Pope Francis’ choice of Archbishop Scicluna is highly significant. He enjoys great credibility among survivors because of his work from 2002 to 2012 as promoter of justice (chief prosecutor) at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith against priests and religious who sexually abused minors.

Archbishop Scicluna first gained prominence on the world stage in 2002 when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, then prefect of the C.D.F., called the Maltese civil and canon lawyer to work at his side in the C.D.F. as promoter of justice in cases of abuse of minors by clergy and religious. His appointment came as the abuse scandal was hitting the church in the United States like an earthquake.

In the following 10 years, no fewer than 3,000 priests were removed from ministry under the new zero tolerance policy.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35996
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 am

wosbald wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:14 am
+JMJ+

Pope Francis sends special prosecutor to Chile to investigate charges against Bishop Barros
Image
Pope Francis meets with Bishops at the Sacristy of the Cathedral of Santiago, Chile, Tuesday, Jan. 16, 2018. (Luca Zennaro/Pool via AP)

In a stunning move of the utmost importance, the Vatican today announced that Pope Francis has decided to send Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta to Chile to listen to the victims that accuse Bishop Juan Barros of being present when they were abused by the country’s most notorious predator, the Rev. Fernando Karadima, and of covering this up.

The Vatican statement, issued in Italian and Spanish, said:
As a result of some information received recently regarding the case of Monsignor Juan de La Cruz Barros Madrid, Bishop of Osorno (Chile), the Holy Father has decided that Msgr. Charles Scicluna, the archbishop of Malta and President of the College for the examination of appeals (“in materia delicta graviora,” “in matters of grave crimes”) in the Ordinary Session of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is to go to Chile to hear those who have expressed their wish to submit elements in their possession.
Sources told America that Francis made the crucial decision a few days after returning to the Vatican from his weeklong visit to Chile and Peru during which he had staunchly defended Bishop Barros against those who accused him of cover-up, saying they had not yet produced proof or evidence for such charges, and consequently the allegations can be considered “calumny.”

[…]

Pope Francis’ choice of Archbishop Scicluna is highly significant. He enjoys great credibility among survivors because of his work from 2002 to 2012 as promoter of justice (chief prosecutor) at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith against priests and religious who sexually abused minors.

Archbishop Scicluna first gained prominence on the world stage in 2002 when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, then prefect of the C.D.F., called the Maltese civil and canon lawyer to work at his side in the C.D.F. as promoter of justice in cases of abuse of minors by clergy and religious. His appointment came as the abuse scandal was hitting the church in the United States like an earthquake.

In the following 10 years, no fewer than 3,000 priests were removed from ministry under the new zero tolerance policy.

[…]
I am in complete agreement with the National Catholic Reporter and America Magazine: Swift & direct action with zero tolerance for those accused of abuse or covering up.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18243
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:01 pm

+JMJ+

Once again, bishops around the world differ on ‘Amoris’
Image
A couple gets married in Stockholm, Sweden, in this 2013 file photo. (Credit: CNS photo/Fredrik Sandberg via EPA.)

[…]

Debate was seemingly put to rest when Francis asked that a private letter he sent to a group of bishops from Buenos Aires, Argentina, regarding the prelates’ guidelines on Amoris Laetitia, be included on the Vatican’s website and in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the official record of Vatican documents. That letter endorsed a draft set of guidelines permitting Communion for the divorced and civilly remarried after a process of discernment with a pastor.

Both the pope’s letter and the guidelines from the bishops are considered “authentic magisterium” by Francis. Dated Sept. 5, 2016, the papal letter says that the bishops’ document “explains precisely the meaning of Chapter VIII of Amoris Laetitita. There are no other interpretations.”

The Buenos Aires document said the path of discernment proposed by Francis “does not necessarily end in the sacraments,” but should, first of all, help the couple recognize their situation, understand Church teaching on the permanence of marriage and take steps toward living a more Christian life.

[…]

Recent voices against Communion for the divorced and remarried

On Dec. 31 three bishops of Kazakhstan - Tomash Peta, Archbishop of Saint Mary in Astana; Jan Pawel Lenga, Archbishop-Bishop of Karaganda; and Athanasius Schneider, Auxiliary Bishop of Saint Mary in Astana - released a statement titled “Profession of the Immutable Truths about Sacramental Marriage.”

Published by several news sites, it was later supported by two Italian prelates, Archbishop Carlo Vigano, former papal representative to the United States, and Archbishop Emeritus Luigi Negri.

[…]

This month, Cardinal Wim Eijk of Utrecht, in the Netherlands, called on Francis to issue a document stating that marriage is “one and unbreakable,” and that the pontiff should also clarify if divorced and remarried Catholics can receive Communion or not, because “people are confused, and that is not good.”

[…]

Two set of guidelines open the doors to the sacraments

[T]he latest guideline to be released, that of the bishops of the Italian Piedmont region, made public on Jan. 29, […] sees the matter as a “case by case situation.”

[…]

In a similar vein, the diocese of Braga in Portugal, released its own, broadly permissive set of guidelines in late 2017, even suggesting a timeline for the discerning path: From the beginning of the pastoral year, in October-November, to Easter, “perhaps Holy Thursday, could be an adequate day for those for whom the discernment dictates so to receive Eucharistic communion.”

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18243
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:17 am

+JMJ+

Pope gets practical on homilies: ‘No more than 10 minutes, please!’
Image

Pope Francis delivers his speech during the weekly general audience in the Paul VI Hall at the Vatican, Wednesday, Dec. 20, 2017. (Credit: AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino.)
ROME - While Catholic insiders may hash it out over complicated political and theological matters such as the precise meaning of Amoris Laetitia, the pope’s document on the family, or the proper approach to relations with China, at the grassroots such questions are often seen as abstract and of little immediate importance.

Instead, few complaints are more chronic than the uneven quality of Catholic preaching, especially in the priest’s homily at Sunday Mass.

[…]

“If sometimes there’s reason to get annoyed about an overly long homily, or one that lacks focus or that’s incomprehensible, other times it’s actually the prejudice [of the listener] that creates obstacles,” the pope said.

[…]

“The homily is not a casual discourse, nor a conference or a lesson, but a way of ‘taking up anew that dialogue which has already been opened between the Lord and his people,’” the pope said, quoting his own document.

In an extemporaneous flourish, Francis then dished up some practical advice for homilists.

“The one who gives the homily has to remember he isn’t doing something of his own,” the pope said. “He’s preaching, he’s giving a voice to Jesus, he’s preaching the Word of Jesus. It has to be well-prepared and brief, brief.”

On the subject of brevity, Francis told a story.

“A priest said to me once that he had gone to another city, where his parents lived. His dad told him, ‘You know, I’m happy, because me and my friends found a church where they do the Mass without a homily.’ How many times have we seen people sleeping during a homily, or chatting among themselves, or outside smoking a cigarette?”

When people laughed at the image, Francis said, “It’s true, you all know it … it’s true!”

Concluding that line of reflection, Francis said, “Please be brief … no more than 10 minutes, please!”

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
Thunktank
Terminal Lance. Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Terminal Lance.  Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Posts: 20912
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Ad Orientem

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:17 am
+JMJ+

Pope gets practical on homilies: ‘No more than 10 minutes, please!’
Image

Pope Francis delivers his speech during the weekly general audience in the Paul VI Hall at the Vatican, Wednesday, Dec. 20, 2017. (Credit: AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino.)
ROME - While Catholic insiders may hash it out over complicated political and theological matters such as the precise meaning of Amoris Laetitia, the pope’s document on the family, or the proper approach to relations with China, at the grassroots such questions are often seen as abstract and of little immediate importance.

Instead, few complaints are more chronic than the uneven quality of Catholic preaching, especially in the priest’s homily at Sunday Mass.

[…]

“If sometimes there’s reason to get annoyed about an overly long homily, or one that lacks focus or that’s incomprehensible, other times it’s actually the prejudice [of the listener] that creates obstacles,” the pope said.

[…]

“The homily is not a casual discourse, nor a conference or a lesson, but a way of ‘taking up anew that dialogue which has already been opened between the Lord and his people,’” the pope said, quoting his own document.

In an extemporaneous flourish, Francis then dished up some practical advice for homilists.

“The one who gives the homily has to remember he isn’t doing something of his own,” the pope said. “He’s preaching, he’s giving a voice to Jesus, he’s preaching the Word of Jesus. It has to be well-prepared and brief, brief.”

On the subject of brevity, Francis told a story.

“A priest said to me once that he had gone to another city, where his parents lived. His dad told him, ‘You know, I’m happy, because me and my friends found a church where they do the Mass without a homily.’ How many times have we seen people sleeping during a homily, or chatting among themselves, or outside smoking a cigarette?”

When people laughed at the image, Francis said, “It’s true, you all know it … it’s true!”

Concluding that line of reflection, Francis said, “Please be brief … no more than 10 minutes, please!”

[…]
Amen.

Ten good minutes is better than 30 minutes of fluffy talk too.
It’s almost believable, but I love it most of the time whether it’s true or not.

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35996
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:16 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am
Amen.

Ten good minutes is better than 30 minutes of fluffy talk too.
Aye. How many times have we forgotten what the gospel reading or the sermon was about before we even get home?
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
infidel
kthxbai
kthxbai
Posts: 6267
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by infidel » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:30 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:16 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am
Amen.

Ten good minutes is better than 30 minutes of fluffy talk too.
Aye. How many times have we forgotten what the gospel reading or the sermon was about before we even get home?
Somewhere there's a Copt rolling his eyes at you all.
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

"One man's saint is another man's infidel." - hugodrax

"Total. Freaking. Win." - Skip

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35996
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:03 pm

infidel wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:30 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:16 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am
Amen.

Ten good minutes is better than 30 minutes of fluffy talk too.
Aye. How many times have we forgotten what the gospel reading or the sermon was about before we even get home?
Somewhere there's a Copt rolling his eyes at you all.
We deserve it. Catholic worship in America sucks... our worship often falls very short of the glory of heaven. We don't open that window into glory that our worship is supposed to be, and we aren't rocking and uplifting like our Evangelical brethren. We are just lame, most of the time.

It's not about the "minutes" -- don't short the important stuff, as if our time with Jesus should be limited. And our quality of time with Jesus shouldn't be insipid.

10 minutes of lame sermon is still a waste of time. If the pastor can't find a worthy point to stress in today's gospel.... then just read the gospel again! Let Jesus teach.

On the other hand... Our bishop has a real gift for preaching. When we get a chance to worship with him, we often talk about his homily afterwards. He has great points to make, and he sticks them in our heads like a good teacher does. Worth our time, and 10 minutes is not enough.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
Thunktank
Terminal Lance. Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Terminal Lance.  Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Posts: 20912
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Ad Orientem

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:30 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:03 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:30 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:16 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am
Amen.

Ten good minutes is better than 30 minutes of fluffy talk too.
Aye. How many times have we forgotten what the gospel reading or the sermon was about before we even get home?
Somewhere there's a Copt rolling his eyes at you all.
We deserve it. Catholic worship in America sucks... our worship often falls very short of the glory of heaven. We don't open that window into glory that our worship is supposed to be, and we aren't rocking and uplifting like our Evangelical brethren. We are just lame, most of the time.

It's not about the "minutes" -- don't short the important stuff, as if our time with Jesus should be limited. And our quality of time with Jesus shouldn't be insipid.

10 minutes of lame sermon is still a waste of time. If the pastor can't find a worthy point to stress in today's gospel.... then just read the gospel again! Let Jesus teach.

On the other hand... Our bishop has a real gift for preaching. When we get a chance to worship with him, we often talk about his homily afterwards. He has great points to make, and he sticks them in our heads like a good teacher does. Worth our time, and 10 minutes is not enough.
Copts usually have short length homilies too. Their liturgies are very long. The modern Ordinary Form of Roman Rite Mass is very short, even by Eastern Orthodox standards, and it seems, sadly, that most Byzantine rite Divine Liturgies are truncated versions of their Orthodox counterparts. What few Tridentine Masses there are around here however are as solemn, if not more so than anything Orthodox. Veils are worn by more women in our local Tridentine Masses than by local Eastern Orthodox women. Not a smile will cross anyone’s face, ever. The same Roman Catholic parishes two hours previously will have a rather casual ordinary form. Down the street yet another parish without any Tridentine Mass will be down right playful. The Fransican priest will try his hand as a comedian, alter girls will even giggle! Not that I have any problem with alter girls mind you.

There are other times to preach outside Mass/Divine Liturgy. I often enjoy listening to Bishop Barron who actually says a lot in a relatively short period of time.
It’s almost believable, but I love it most of the time whether it’s true or not.

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 32868
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Image
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"You guys are weird." - Mrs. FredS

User avatar
Cleon
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 13935
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Indiana - South of 40
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Cleon » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:43 pm

Image
Image
Image
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

"More people need to put their big boy britches on." - JMG

"Dang, a pipe slap." - JimVH

User avatar
Thunktank
Terminal Lance. Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Terminal Lance.  Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Posts: 20912
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Ad Orientem

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:14 pm

So why the pirate Bob?
It’s almost believable, but I love it most of the time whether it’s true or not.

User avatar
tuttle
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 12101
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Middle-west
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:02 am

Del wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:03 pm
10 minutes of lame sermon is still a waste of time.
Bingo.

The length of time rarely matters compared to the sermon content itself. I've listened to an hour-plus long sermon that felt like 10 minutes and I wanted it to keep going. I've sat under a 30 minute sermon that felt like 4 hours.

Protestants typically preach sermons for much longer than 10 minutes. Sometimes there are churches that tend to think an hour and a half sermon is some kind of proof that the pastor/flock is pretty hardcore and loves Jesus bunches, but again, sometimes it's just an hour and a half of bloviating. Frankly a good, crisp, 10 minute blast of gospel would likely do a lot of these marathon-sermon churches a heap of good.
Freedom is here! (If you want it)...

"You're my kind of stupid" -Mal Reynolds

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18243
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:57 am

+JMJ+

In abuse scandal, Pope stakes his case on evidence, not authority
Image
Juan Carlos Cruz reads from his tablet during an interview with The Associated Press in Philadelphia, Sunday Feb. 4, 2017. Cruz says Pope Francis received a letter he wrote in 2015 detailing the sexual abuse he suffered at the hands of a priest and efforts by the Chilean church to cover it up. (Credit: AP Photo/Yvonne Lee.)

[…]

Now, however, the romance [twixt Pope Francis and the media] appears to be in crisis, amid intense criticism currently swirling around the pope’s statement on his return flight from a trip to Chile and Peru in late January that sexual victims in Chile asserting that a bishop knew about their abuse and covered it up had not “come forward,” contrasted with aggressive reporting by the Associated Press that a letter from victims outlining those charges had been presented to the pontiff through Cardinal Sean O’Malley of Boston in 2015.

As a textual matter, the pope didn’t really say “come forward” in the usual English sense of “go public.” What he said, literally, in the original Italian, was, “Non sono venuti, non hanno dato le evidenze per il giudizio,” meaning, “They did not come, they did not give evidence for the judgment.” It seems clear in context he meant they “did not come” to him, meaning placing evidence directly in his hands.

By way of contrast, the fact that the pope actually was presented with details of the charges against Bishop Juan Barros of the Diocese of Osorno three years ago has been known for a long time.

Several media outlets, including Crux, reported in the spring of 2015 that victims of Chile’s most notorious pedophile priest, Fernando Karadima, had traveled to Rome to discuss the Barros appointment with members of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, the group created by Pope Francis to advise him on anti-abuse efforts. Later, a member of the commission at the time, Irish abuse survivor Marie Collins, gave a letter from the victims to O’Malley, which he vowed to relay to the pope.

So, it’s long been on record that Francis had access to the victims’ accounts, making the current frenzy seem a bit like the rest of the world catching up.

(For the record, the accusation is that Barros knew of the abuse but covered it up at a time when he was still a priest, so, strictly speaking, this isn’t a case of “episcopal accountability.” It’s also worth noting that the fact someone placed a letter in the pope’s hands, which happens about a 100 times a day, is no guarantee he read it, although it’s difficult to imagine he hasn’t since.)

The face-value interpretation of what Francis has been saying on the Barros case, therefore, would seem to be that he’s aware of the charges but does not believe they rise to the level of evidence warranting punishment.

In the current focus on “What did the pope know, and when did he know it?”, a key point about the way this is unfolding risks being lost: To wit, that Francis has staked the Barros debate on the grounds of evidence rather than authority.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18243
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:13 pm

+JMJ+

Benedict XVI writes of his “pilgrimage towards Home” during “last, tiring” stage of his journey
Image
Pope Francis greets Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI at the retired pope's residence after a consistory for the creation of five new cardinals at the Vatican June 28, 2017. (Credit: CNS photo/L'Osservatore Romano.)

Pope emeritus Benedict XVI spoke about the “slow waning” of his physical strength and his “pilgrimage towards Home” in a letter sent to an Italian newspaper on Tuesday.

“It’s a great grace, in this last, at times tiring, stage of my journey, to be surrounded by a love and goodness that I could have never imagined,” Benedict wrote.

The letter, dated Feb. 5, was hand-delivered to Massimo Franco, a columnist for Corriere della Sera, the most prestigious newspaper in Italy, which takes the role of “newspaper of record” that the New York Times does in the United States.

The pope emeritus was responding to a question sent to him by the newspaper about his well-being, and Benedict said he “cannot but be thankful” to the readers and others for their concern.

Image
Letter sent by Pope emeritus Benedict XVI to an Italian newspaper this week. (Credit: Corriere della Sera.)

In his Feb. 7 column accompanying the letter, Franco noted that the signature of Benedict is “now tiny, almost shrinking along with his physical force.”

The newspaperman said the pope emeritus “accepts his fragility” and said Benedict’s words are “a thanksgiving, and at the same time, almost a farewell.”

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35996
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:31 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:13 pm
+JMJ+

Benedict XVI writes of his “pilgrimage towards Home” during “last, tiring” stage of his journey
Image
Pope Francis greets Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI at the retired pope's residence after a consistory for the creation of five new cardinals at the Vatican June 28, 2017. (Credit: CNS photo/L'Osservatore Romano.)

Pope emeritus Benedict XVI spoke about the “slow waning” of his physical strength and his “pilgrimage towards Home” in a letter sent to an Italian newspaper on Tuesday.

“It’s a great grace, in this last, at times tiring, stage of my journey, to be surrounded by a love and goodness that I could have never imagined,” Benedict wrote.

The letter, dated Feb. 5, was hand-delivered to Massimo Franco, a columnist for Corriere della Sera, the most prestigious newspaper in Italy, which takes the role of “newspaper of record” that the New York Times does in the United States.

The pope emeritus was responding to a question sent to him by the newspaper about his well-being, and Benedict said he “cannot but be thankful” to the readers and others for their concern.

Image
Letter sent by Pope emeritus Benedict XVI to an Italian newspaper this week. (Credit: Corriere della Sera.)

In his Feb. 7 column accompanying the letter, Franco noted that the signature of Benedict is “now tiny, almost shrinking along with his physical force.”

The newspaperman said the pope emeritus “accepts his fragility” and said Benedict’s words are “a thanksgiving, and at the same time, almost a farewell.”

[…]
The world has not been thankful enough for Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

Post Reply