I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 am

tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:43 pm
Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:19 am
So...remember when I said
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
Again, I see the Pope saying things to and about Protestants that don't align with what Catholicism teaches (or what I've been told Catholicism teaches whether historically or dogmatically). And I know Catholics hear it too, because they are always rushing to say that the Pope really means 'business as usual'. "Lutherans can take the Eucharist"...not really. "Ecumenism is taking place between Catholics and Lutherans"...not really.
and
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
what happens when the Pope really does say something that is out of bounds?
Two things. A statement and a question.

1) Please forgive me if I feel a smidge justified that, at least, a certain segment of Catholics are seeing what I'm seeing. (However, for what it's worth, I wasn't thinking that Pope saying Lutherans can take the Eucharist is something that propagates heresy.)

2) In regards to my theoretical question about what happens if the Pope really does say something out of bounds...is the Filial Correction the route the Roman Church would take?

Lastly, is the Filial Correction a big deal? Does it have legs? I read somewhere that the last time this happened was in ye olde medieval days and was understood as legit then. Even if it's a political dick move, what are the implications of something like this?

EDIT: should the Filial Correction have it's own thread?
There is not a clean, simple answer to your question. While the Church does indeed have a glorious and formidable bureaucracy, this is not the only tool that the Holy Spirit has in His Divine Tool Box for guiding us on the path of the Divine Truth.
Image

Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Throughout history, the Holy Spirit has raised up great saints to guide us when the human Church seems to heading off the path.

St. Athanasius [and other examples]

It's in God's hands. If we are faithful, we let Him use us.
I actually really appreciate (and more or less agree with) this answer. Pretty much how I view the rise of saints like Hus and Luther.
And how Moslems view Mohammed.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:49 am

Del wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:43 pm
Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:19 am
So...remember when I said
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
Again, I see the Pope saying things to and about Protestants that don't align with what Catholicism teaches (or what I've been told Catholicism teaches whether historically or dogmatically). And I know Catholics hear it too, because they are always rushing to say that the Pope really means 'business as usual'. "Lutherans can take the Eucharist"...not really. "Ecumenism is taking place between Catholics and Lutherans"...not really.
and
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
what happens when the Pope really does say something that is out of bounds?
Two things. A statement and a question.

1) Please forgive me if I feel a smidge justified that, at least, a certain segment of Catholics are seeing what I'm seeing. (However, for what it's worth, I wasn't thinking that Pope saying Lutherans can take the Eucharist is something that propagates heresy.)

2) In regards to my theoretical question about what happens if the Pope really does say something out of bounds...is the Filial Correction the route the Roman Church would take?

Lastly, is the Filial Correction a big deal? Does it have legs? I read somewhere that the last time this happened was in ye olde medieval days and was understood as legit then. Even if it's a political dick move, what are the implications of something like this?

EDIT: should the Filial Correction have it's own thread?
There is not a clean, simple answer to your question. While the Church does indeed have a glorious and formidable bureaucracy, this is not the only tool that the Holy Spirit has in His Divine Tool Box for guiding us on the path of the Divine Truth.
Image

Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Throughout history, the Holy Spirit has raised up great saints to guide us when the human Church seems to heading off the path.

St. Athanasius [and other examples]

It's in God's hands. If we are faithful, we let Him use us.
I actually really appreciate (and more or less agree with) this answer. Pretty much how I view the rise of saints like Hus and Luther.
And how Moslems view Mohammed.
When did the Holy Spirit raise up Mohammed to speak truth to a Church in need of correction?
"You're my kind of stupid" -Mal Reynolds

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

The Reformation Drinking Song

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:21 am

tuttle wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:49 am
Del wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:43 pm
Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:19 am
So...remember when I said
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
Again, I see the Pope saying things to and about Protestants that don't align with what Catholicism teaches (or what I've been told Catholicism teaches whether historically or dogmatically). And I know Catholics hear it too, because they are always rushing to say that the Pope really means 'business as usual'. "Lutherans can take the Eucharist"...not really. "Ecumenism is taking place between Catholics and Lutherans"...not really.
and
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
what happens when the Pope really does say something that is out of bounds?
Two things. A statement and a question.

1) Please forgive me if I feel a smidge justified that, at least, a certain segment of Catholics are seeing what I'm seeing. (However, for what it's worth, I wasn't thinking that Pope saying Lutherans can take the Eucharist is something that propagates heresy.)

2) In regards to my theoretical question about what happens if the Pope really does say something out of bounds...is the Filial Correction the route the Roman Church would take?

Lastly, is the Filial Correction a big deal? Does it have legs? I read somewhere that the last time this happened was in ye olde medieval days and was understood as legit then. Even if it's a political dick move, what are the implications of something like this?

EDIT: should the Filial Correction have it's own thread?
There is not a clean, simple answer to your question. While the Church does indeed have a glorious and formidable bureaucracy, this is not the only tool that the Holy Spirit has in His Divine Tool Box for guiding us on the path of the Divine Truth.
Image

Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Throughout history, the Holy Spirit has raised up great saints to guide us when the human Church seems to heading off the path.

St. Athanasius [and other examples]

It's in God's hands. If we are faithful, we let Him use us.
I actually really appreciate (and more or less agree with) this answer. Pretty much how I view the rise of saints like Hus and Luther.
And how Moslems view Mohammed.
When did the Holy Spirit raise up Mohammed to speak truth to a Church in need of correction?
I'm just saying that the innocent followers of the false prophets do not recognize this. They believe they are following a saint.

Hus and Luther and Mohammed inspired wars and persecutions and schisms. They differ quite a bit from the warrior saints, such as St. Joan of Arc or Don John of Austria or King Jan Sobieski. We know them by their fruits.

The Holy Spirit desires unity among the People of God. When the result is mayhem, schisms, and factions, then it was a chastisement. We are still not ready for the healing.

Most of the world's Christians will be mourning next month's remembrance on the Eve of All Saints.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Skip » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:38 am

Del wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:21 am
tuttle wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:49 am
Del wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:43 pm
Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:19 am
So...remember when I said
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
Again, I see the Pope saying things to and about Protestants that don't align with what Catholicism teaches (or what I've been told Catholicism teaches whether historically or dogmatically). And I know Catholics hear it too, because they are always rushing to say that the Pope really means 'business as usual'. "Lutherans can take the Eucharist"...not really. "Ecumenism is taking place between Catholics and Lutherans"...not really.
and
tuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:32 am
what happens when the Pope really does say something that is out of bounds?
Two things. A statement and a question.

1) Please forgive me if I feel a smidge justified that, at least, a certain segment of Catholics are seeing what I'm seeing. (However, for what it's worth, I wasn't thinking that Pope saying Lutherans can take the Eucharist is something that propagates heresy.)

2) In regards to my theoretical question about what happens if the Pope really does say something out of bounds...is the Filial Correction the route the Roman Church would take?

Lastly, is the Filial Correction a big deal? Does it have legs? I read somewhere that the last time this happened was in ye olde medieval days and was understood as legit then. Even if it's a political dick move, what are the implications of something like this?

EDIT: should the Filial Correction have it's own thread?
There is not a clean, simple answer to your question. While the Church does indeed have a glorious and formidable bureaucracy, this is not the only tool that the Holy Spirit has in His Divine Tool Box for guiding us on the path of the Divine Truth.
Image

Del wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Throughout history, the Holy Spirit has raised up great saints to guide us when the human Church seems to heading off the path.

St. Athanasius [and other examples]

It's in God's hands. If we are faithful, we let Him use us.
I actually really appreciate (and more or less agree with) this answer. Pretty much how I view the rise of saints like Hus and Luther.
And how Moslems view Mohammed.
When did the Holy Spirit raise up Mohammed to speak truth to a Church in need of correction?
I'm just saying that the innocent followers of the false prophets do not recognize this. They believe they are following a saint.

Hus and Luther and Mohammed inspired wars and persecutions and schisms. They differ quite a bit from the warrior saints, such as St. Joan of Arc or Don John of Austria or King Jan Sobieski. We know them by their fruits.

The Holy Spirit desires unity among the People of God. When the result is mayhem, schisms, and factions, then it was a chastisement. We are still not ready for the healing.

Most of the world's Christians will be mourning next month's remembrance on the Eve of All Saints.
WTG, Del! You finally stopped calling Luther a heretic and moved to calling him a "false prophet", equating him with the likes of Mohammed.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am

I can't take anymore. Time out before this goes ballistic.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:06 am

Round two. Marquess of Queensbury Rules.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Skip » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:58 am

And just in case there was any doubt...


Image
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Jester » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:22 pm

I really am starting to like this Pope :pipe3:
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:27 pm

Jester wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:22 pm
I really am starting to like this Pope :pipe3:
Uncle Bob, of all people, turned the best phrase on Pope Francis's appeal.

I'm too lazy to find the original quote, early in this thread.

The gist of Bob's insight is that Francis is twisting the undies of both the left-wing zealots and the right-wing zealots, and that's always a good sign.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Zeitguy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:09 pm

It's best just to never bring up the names of divisive political figures, historical or present.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:00 am

+JMJ+
Zeitguy wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:09 pm
It's best just to never bring up the names of divisive political figures, historical or present.
You startin' to feel unsafe?




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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Zeitguy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:14 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:00 am
+JMJ+
Zeitguy wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:09 pm
It's best just to never bring up the names of divisive political figures, historical or present.
You startin' to feel unsafe?
Yeah.... And no one should have to endure microaggressions from stupid people who don't think right. It's not fair.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Jester » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:20 am

Zeitguy wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:09 pm
It's best just to never bring up the names of divisive political figures, historical or present.
You forgot future.
I smoke a cigar because the body is a temple and the temple needs incense. -Michael Knowles

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:31 am

+JMJ+
Zeitguy wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:14 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:00 am
Zeitguy wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:09 pm
It's best just to never bring up the names of divisive political figures, historical or present.
You startin' to feel unsafe?
Yeah.... And no one should have to endure microaggressions from stupid people who don't think right. It's not fair.
Just checkin'. Yer like the canary in the coal mine of unsafety, ya know.

Okay, I think that puts us at ZEITCON 4.

Image



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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Cleon » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:25 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am
I can't take anymore. Time out before this goes ballistic.
FWIW, I am a Reformation minded Christian. Presbyterian. Calvinist too. I'm even in the midst of planning a community Reformation Day service focusing on the 5 solas. Del's comments are not offensive to me at all. He's a Catholic. He is speaking as a Catholic . I find it refreshing for him to say plainly what he means. It's not a personal attack. I look on the bright side: 500 years later and we aren't killing each other.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 am

Cleon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:25 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am
I can't take anymore. Time out before this goes ballistic.
FWIW, I am a Reformation minded Christian. Presbyterian. Calvinist too. I'm even in the midst of planning a community Reformation Day service focusing on the 5 solas. Del's comments are not offensive to me at all. He's a Catholic. He is speaking as a Catholic . I find it refreshing for him to say plainly what he means. It's not a personal attack. I look on the bright side: 500 years later and we aren't killing each other.
+1
"You're my kind of stupid" -Mal Reynolds

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

The Reformation Drinking Song

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:42 am

tuttle wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 am
Cleon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:25 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am
I can't take anymore. Time out before this goes ballistic.
FWIW, I am a Reformation minded Christian. Presbyterian. Calvinist too. I'm even in the midst of planning a community Reformation Day service focusing on the 5 solas. Del's comments are not offensive to me at all. He's a Catholic. He is speaking as a Catholic . I find it refreshing for him to say plainly what he means. It's not a personal attack. I look on the bright side: 500 years later and we aren't killing each other.
+1
It's not the regulars who enjoy this sort of thing anyone has to worry about, Cleon.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Jester » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:20 am

tuttle wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 am
Cleon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:25 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am
I can't take anymore. Time out before this goes ballistic.
FWIW, I am a Reformation minded Christian. Presbyterian. Calvinist too. I'm even in the midst of planning a community Reformation Day service focusing on the 5 solas. Del's comments are not offensive to me at all. He's a Catholic. He is speaking as a Catholic . I find it refreshing for him to say plainly what he means. It's not a personal attack. I look on the bright side: 500 years later and we aren't killing each other.
+1
+2
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When chaos manifests itself, what makes you think that anyone tame will be good for anything? -Jordan B. Peterson

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Cleon » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:22 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:42 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 am
Cleon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:25 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am
I can't take anymore. Time out before this goes ballistic.
FWIW, I am a Reformation minded Christian. Presbyterian. Calvinist too. I'm even in the midst of planning a community Reformation Day service focusing on the 5 solas. Del's comments are not offensive to me at all. He's a Catholic. He is speaking as a Catholic . I find it refreshing for him to say plainly what he means. It's not a personal attack. I look on the bright side: 500 years later and we aren't killing each other.
+1
It's not the regulars who enjoy this sort of thing anyone has to worry about, Cleon.
Oh, I know. The comment was meant mostly for Del's benefit. I should have quoted him and pointed it at him. Strong convictions and all being what they are, I understand where he's coming from.

It just irks me that big brother has our forum by the cojones and there's nothing that can really be done about it. I wouldn't want to be a moderator at all. My hat is off to you guys who have to deal with it all.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:25 pm

Cleon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:42 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 am
Cleon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:25 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am
I can't take anymore. Time out before this goes ballistic.
FWIW, I am a Reformation minded Christian. Presbyterian. Calvinist too. I'm even in the midst of planning a community Reformation Day service focusing on the 5 solas. Del's comments are not offensive to me at all. He's a Catholic. He is speaking as a Catholic . I find it refreshing for him to say plainly what he means. It's not a personal attack. I look on the bright side: 500 years later and we aren't killing each other.
+1
It's not the regulars who enjoy this sort of thing anyone has to worry about, Cleon.
Oh, I know. The comment was meant mostly for Del's benefit. I should have quoted him and pointed it at him. Strong convictions and all being what they are, I understand where he's coming from.

It just irks me that big brother has our forum by the cojones and there's nothing that can really be done about it. I wouldn't want to be a moderator at all. My hat is off to you guys who have to deal with it all.
+1
"You're my kind of stupid" -Mal Reynolds

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

The Reformation Drinking Song

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