North Korea

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Re: North Korea

Post by Goose55 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:54 am

I heard a funny comment on the news the other day. A journalist asked a U.S. Military expert if N. Korea could strike any U.S. Naval vessels that may be in the vicinity. He said "They can't even find them."
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Re: North Korea

Post by Sir Moose » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:16 am

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:54 am
I heard a funny comment on the news the other day. A journalist asked a U.S. Military expert if N. Korea could strike any U.S. Naval vessels that may be in the vicinity. He said "They can't even find them."
I saw this article the other day that discusses that and other problems with their threat.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Rusty » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm

infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Japan needs to build a mighty military again.
Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
... and they're short and have buck teeth. Americans used to say that before WWII. China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
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Re: North Korea

Post by infidel » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Japan needs to build a mighty military again.
Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
Well there's a difference between building/buying nukes and building a world-class mighty military.

And no I have no Japanese DNA
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Re: North Korea

Post by Rusty » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm

infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Japan needs to build a mighty military again.
Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
Well there's a difference between building/buying nukes and building a world-class mighty military.

And no I have no Japanese DNA
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. Your armed forces were small at the time. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. There are nations that have been down and never really recovered to significant status ever again eg Italy, Spain and there are likely others. But some we should not discount. Among them are the Russians and the Japanese. Both have recovered from amazing setbacks and seem to have a measure of resilience. Are you of Chinese descent?
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Re: North Korea

Post by infidel » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:07 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. Are you of Chinese descent?
Nope, no Chinese blood either.

Japan leads the world in Debt to GDP. They are borrowing from their grandchildren and great grandchildren and great-great grandchildren who aren't even going to be born.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Sir Moose » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:11 pm

Off Topic
Since it seems to be an issue, Ancestry.com offers DNA testing
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Rusty » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:16 pm

infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:07 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. Are you of Chinese descent?
Nope, no Chinese blood either.

Japan leads the world in Debt to GDP. They are borrowing from their grandchildren and great grandchildren and great-great grandchildren who aren't even going to be born.
They've been making progress dealing with their debt. You're presuming that they are like America though. American public debt is something like 100% of your GDP and what are doing about it? Despite some serious disasters Japan has been making progress reducing their debt and that seems to be ongoing. When, if ever, will we see any sign of America making progress likewise?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -the-world

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Re: North Korea

Post by infidel » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:28 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:16 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:07 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. Are you of Chinese descent?
Nope, no Chinese blood either.

Japan leads the world in Debt to GDP. They are borrowing from their grandchildren and great grandchildren and great-great grandchildren who aren't even going to be born.
They've been making progress dealing with their debt. You're presuming that they are like America though. American public debt is something like 100% of your GDP and what are doing about it? Despite some serious disasters Japan has been making progress reducing their debt and that seems to be ongoing. When, if ever, will we see any sign of America making progress likewise?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -the-world

Image
You call that progress? The private sector is deleveraging and the government is picking up the slack. Government debt has tripled in two decades.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Sir Moose » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:29 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:16 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:07 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. Are you of Chinese descent?
Nope, no Chinese blood either.

Japan leads the world in Debt to GDP. They are borrowing from their grandchildren and great grandchildren and great-great grandchildren who aren't even going to be born.
They've been making progress dealing with their debt. You're presuming that they are like America though. American public debt is something like 100% of your GDP and what are doing about it? Despite some serious disasters Japan has been making progress reducing their debt and that seems to be ongoing. When, if ever, will we see any sign of America making progress likewise?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -the-world

Image
Really? American public debt is 100% of our GDP (it appears it's actually 104.7%) - why aren't we making like the Japanese where it's 283% of their GDP? I understand that your point was that they're trending downward, but when you plug the actual percentages in, it sounds kind of ridiculous.
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Re: North Korea

Post by infidel » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:31 pm

Sir Moose wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:11 pm
Off Topic
Since it seems to be an issue, Ancestry.com offers DNA testing
I know where my ancestors came from and I have no desire to volunteer my DNA for the Big Data machine.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Skip » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Off Topic
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:31 pm
Sir Moose wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:11 pm
Off Topic
Since it seems to be an issue, Ancestry.com offers DNA testing
I know where my ancestors came from and I have no desire to volunteer my DNA for the Big Data machine.
I know where my ancestors say they come from and I've considered taking the test just to found out how full of crap they truly are.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Del » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:45 pm

infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Japan needs to build a mighty military again.
Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
And they were talking in 2013 about adult diapers gonna outsell baby diapers.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101003141

They crossed that milestone in 2016.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Onyx » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:31 pm

One freakin day someone is gonna come along and suggest that we can love our neighbours as ourselves... we're going to believe that the Koreans, the Japanese, the Chinese are our brothers and sisters. I have no freakin idea where this leadership will come from.
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Re: North Korea

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:19 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Japan needs to build a mighty military again.
Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
Well there's a difference between building/buying nukes and building a world-class mighty military.

And no I have no Japanese DNA
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. Your armed forces were small at the time. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. There are nations that have been down and never really recovered to significant status ever again eg Italy, Spain and there are likely others. But some we should not discount. Among them are the Russians and the Japanese. Both have recovered from amazing setbacks and seem to have a measure of resilience. Are you of Chinese descent?
Rusty, the Japanese Health Minister had to remind women that they could have babies. An unbelievable percentage of the population thinks that dating and sex are a waste of time. Their birth rate is pathetically low. Add to that the idea of the "grass eating man" and you'll see his point.

This doesn't mean I'd discount the Japanese, just say that right now they don't have the manpower. I'd never let them rearm, either, or steam out of homewaters, because they're unrepentant xenophobic bastards. Think the Cricketers from Hitchiker's Guide.

And no, I don't have any Japanese ancestry. But my children do. And I spend a lot of time within the culture, both in the US and in Japan, just in case you think I'm spitballing.

Also, the standard of dentistry is appalling. Certain stereotypes are quite true.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Rusty » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:09 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:19 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Japan needs to build a mighty military again.
Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
Well there's a difference between building/buying nukes and building a world-class mighty military.

And no I have no Japanese DNA
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. Your armed forces were small at the time. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. There are nations that have been down and never really recovered to significant status ever again eg Italy, Spain and there are likely others. But some we should not discount. Among them are the Russians and the Japanese. Both have recovered from amazing setbacks and seem to have a measure of resilience. Are you of Chinese descent?
Rusty, the Japanese Health Minister had to remind women that they could have babies. An unbelievable percentage of the population thinks that dating and sex are a waste of time. Their birth rate is pathetically low. Add to that the idea of the "grass eating man" and you'll see his point.

This doesn't mean I'd discount the Japanese, just say that right now they don't have the manpower. I'd never let them rearm, either, or steam out of homewaters, because they're unrepentant xenophobic bastards. Think the Cricketers from Hitchiker's Guide.

And no, I don't have any Japanese ancestry. But my children do. And I spend a lot of time within the culture, both in the US and in Japan, just in case you think I'm spitballing.

Also, the standard of dentistry is appalling. Certain stereotypes are quite true.
I'm happy that you wouldn't discount them. That's good enough. I'm good with that. There was a tone to infidel's remarks that I didn't like. A suggestion that maybe they're not worth the effort. I suspect Onyx got the same message.
If you want to suggest improvements to build Japanese culture 2.0 that's fine with me. You're closer to it than I am.
You might include all of western civilization in your improvement suggestions because virtually all have lower than replacement fertility rates incl. the US, so most have aging societies but for immigration. I think the Health Ministers of most western nations might also remind the women in their country that they can also have babies. Japan doesn't have the lowest fertility rate either and they have five times the population of N. Korea and 175% of the Japanese population in 1940. By active military personnel their armed forces are larger than those in France, Germany, Israel, etc. Plus like the others they have the US to help, by treaty.
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Re: North Korea

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:56 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:09 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:19 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Japan needs to build a mighty military again.
Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
Well there's a difference between building/buying nukes and building a world-class mighty military.

And no I have no Japanese DNA
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. Your armed forces were small at the time. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. There are nations that have been down and never really recovered to significant status ever again eg Italy, Spain and there are likely others. But some we should not discount. Among them are the Russians and the Japanese. Both have recovered from amazing setbacks and seem to have a measure of resilience. Are you of Chinese descent?
Rusty, the Japanese Health Minister had to remind women that they could have babies. An unbelievable percentage of the population thinks that dating and sex are a waste of time. Their birth rate is pathetically low. Add to that the idea of the "grass eating man" and you'll see his point.

This doesn't mean I'd discount the Japanese, just say that right now they don't have the manpower. I'd never let them rearm, either, or steam out of homewaters, because they're unrepentant xenophobic bastards. Think the Cricketers from Hitchiker's Guide.

And no, I don't have any Japanese ancestry. But my children do. And I spend a lot of time within the culture, both in the US and in Japan, just in case you think I'm spitballing.

Also, the standard of dentistry is appalling. Certain stereotypes are quite true.
I'm happy that you wouldn't discount them. That's good enough. I'm good with that. There was a tone to infidel's remarks that I didn't like. A suggestion that maybe they're not worth the effort. I suspect Onyx got the same message.
If you want to suggest improvements to build Japanese culture 2.0 that's fine with me. You're closer to it than I am.
You might include all of western civilization in your improvement suggestions because virtually all have lower than replacement fertility rates incl. the US, so most have aging societies but for immigration. I think the Health Ministers of most western nations might also remind the women in their country that they can also have babies. Japan doesn't have the lowest fertility rate either and they have five times the population of N. Korea and 175% of the Japanese population in 1940. By active military personnel their armed forces are larger than those in France, Germany, Israel, etc. Plus like the others they have the US to help, by treaty.
Yes, but we are allowing the home defence fleet to steam out of home waters. They're flying the rising sun. I don't approve. I'd never remove a single base.

I'd let them die out. They're dangerous. I wouldn't trust them to stick by their treaty obligations, either. Then again, I wouldn't have let German reunification occur, either. Maybe I'm a reactionary, after all.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: North Korea

Post by Rusty » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:04 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:56 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:09 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:19 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 pm


Japan is way past its prime there.
Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
Well there's a difference between building/buying nukes and building a world-class mighty military.

And no I have no Japanese DNA
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. Your armed forces were small at the time. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. There are nations that have been down and never really recovered to significant status ever again eg Italy, Spain and there are likely others. But some we should not discount. Among them are the Russians and the Japanese. Both have recovered from amazing setbacks and seem to have a measure of resilience. Are you of Chinese descent?
Rusty, the Japanese Health Minister had to remind women that they could have babies. An unbelievable percentage of the population thinks that dating and sex are a waste of time. Their birth rate is pathetically low. Add to that the idea of the "grass eating man" and you'll see his point.

This doesn't mean I'd discount the Japanese, just say that right now they don't have the manpower. I'd never let them rearm, either, or steam out of homewaters, because they're unrepentant xenophobic bastards. Think the Cricketers from Hitchiker's Guide.

And no, I don't have any Japanese ancestry. But my children do. And I spend a lot of time within the culture, both in the US and in Japan, just in case you think I'm spitballing.

Also, the standard of dentistry is appalling. Certain stereotypes are quite true.
I'm happy that you wouldn't discount them. That's good enough. I'm good with that. There was a tone to infidel's remarks that I didn't like. A suggestion that maybe they're not worth the effort. I suspect Onyx got the same message.
If you want to suggest improvements to build Japanese culture 2.0 that's fine with me. You're closer to it than I am.
You might include all of western civilization in your improvement suggestions because virtually all have lower than replacement fertility rates incl. the US, so most have aging societies but for immigration. I think the Health Ministers of most western nations might also remind the women in their country that they can also have babies. Japan doesn't have the lowest fertility rate either and they have five times the population of N. Korea and 175% of the Japanese population in 1940. By active military personnel their armed forces are larger than those in France, Germany, Israel, etc. Plus like the others they have the US to help, by treaty.
Yes, but we are allowing the home defence fleet to steam out of home waters. They're flying the rising sun. I don't approve. I'd never remove a single base.

I'd let them die out. They're dangerous. I wouldn't trust them to stick by their treaty obligations, either. Then again, I wouldn't have let German reunification occur, either. Maybe I'm a reactionary, after all.
Dangerous. Now you're seeing it the way China does. They do not want to see a nuclear-armed Japan. These are not people that one characterizes as spent.
For some reason they didn't go through the national guilt and soul searching that Germany did.
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Del
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Re: North Korea

Post by Del » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:14 pm

Onyx wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:31 pm
One freakin day someone is gonna come along and suggest that we can love our neighbours as ourselves... we're going to believe that the Koreans, the Japanese, the Chinese are our brothers and sisters. I have no freakin idea where this leadership will come from.
It is loving to the people of all nations that a rogue regime is prevented from developing nuclear weapons.

If Obama cared about the world more than his own reputation and legacy, this might have been resolved before it got this far.
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Re: North Korea

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:26 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:04 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:56 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:09 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:19 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm
Rusty wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:19 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:33 am
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:02 pm


Not at all! Japan has significant ability to raise a world class military. I think you know that too. Not sure what you're getting at with that comment.
Their population is aging and shrinking, their economy is slowing down, they're in deeper debt than we are. I'm not so sure.
China does not share your view of Japan. One of China's complaints about NK developing nuclear weapons is that it may start an arms race in the region. China has been fairly clear; they do not want to face a nuclear-armed Japan. Two Japanese destroyers have joined the American carrier group. Guess who has a treaty obligation to cooperate with and provide security for Japan?
I have to ask; are you of Japanese descent?
Well there's a difference between building/buying nukes and building a world-class mighty military.

And no I have no Japanese DNA
If you look at the state of Germany in the 1920's you might never think that they could have a world-class military. Nazi Germany, likewise thought America was soft and somewhat effete - nothing to worry about. Your armed forces were small at the time. They stupidly declared war on America, 11 days after Pearl Harbour, in part because of this belief. I think these sweeping generalizations are usually too hasty and usually wrong. There are nations that have been down and never really recovered to significant status ever again eg Italy, Spain and there are likely others. But some we should not discount. Among them are the Russians and the Japanese. Both have recovered from amazing setbacks and seem to have a measure of resilience. Are you of Chinese descent?
Rusty, the Japanese Health Minister had to remind women that they could have babies. An unbelievable percentage of the population thinks that dating and sex are a waste of time. Their birth rate is pathetically low. Add to that the idea of the "grass eating man" and you'll see his point.

This doesn't mean I'd discount the Japanese, just say that right now they don't have the manpower. I'd never let them rearm, either, or steam out of homewaters, because they're unrepentant xenophobic bastards. Think the Cricketers from Hitchiker's Guide.

And no, I don't have any Japanese ancestry. But my children do. And I spend a lot of time within the culture, both in the US and in Japan, just in case you think I'm spitballing.

Also, the standard of dentistry is appalling. Certain stereotypes are quite true.
I'm happy that you wouldn't discount them. That's good enough. I'm good with that. There was a tone to infidel's remarks that I didn't like. A suggestion that maybe they're not worth the effort. I suspect Onyx got the same message.
If you want to suggest improvements to build Japanese culture 2.0 that's fine with me. You're closer to it than I am.
You might include all of western civilization in your improvement suggestions because virtually all have lower than replacement fertility rates incl. the US, so most have aging societies but for immigration. I think the Health Ministers of most western nations might also remind the women in their country that they can also have babies. Japan doesn't have the lowest fertility rate either and they have five times the population of N. Korea and 175% of the Japanese population in 1940. By active military personnel their armed forces are larger than those in France, Germany, Israel, etc. Plus like the others they have the US to help, by treaty.
Yes, but we are allowing the home defence fleet to steam out of home waters. They're flying the rising sun. I don't approve. I'd never remove a single base.

I'd let them die out. They're dangerous. I wouldn't trust them to stick by their treaty obligations, either. Then again, I wouldn't have let German reunification occur, either. Maybe I'm a reactionary, after all.
Dangerous. Now you're seeing it the way China does. They do not want to see a nuclear-armed Japan. These are not people that one characterizes as spent.
For some reason they didn't go through the national guilt and soul searching that Germany did.
I think there are at least two reasons behind that, Rusty. One is the fact that the much vaunted "face saving" really means "I can do no wrong and you are rude for questioning me". The second is the fact that we bought their medical information and tried very few people, thus legitimizing the whole affair. We should have hung the Showa Emperor from the nearest tree.

You're quite right that they're not spent yet. But they're on their way and we should encourage it.

I don't bear them hatred or ill will. Individual Japanese are wonderful. Collectively, they're the Borg. But I don't trust a culture where lying to your face is seen as great strength and obeying the highest caste in the room is seen as a source of personal honor.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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