North Korea

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Re: North Korea

Post by A_Morley » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:14 am

Del, you are an awkward, obsolete ignoramus and what you think about this issue simply does not matter. You are destroying CPS with your constant ranting and I have come to genuinely dislike you.

I think that I dislike Goose even more, but I will address that later. I will not rest until one of us is brought to heel. Your kind of mindset is not only annoying, it is dangerous.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Rusty » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:19 am

Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:34 am

You could offer your own thoughts... or at least comment on the article you posted.

Thunktank thinks that Trump is a "war-lord."

TNLP thinks that Trump is a snowflake who requires dossiers of constant affirmation.

Tuttle is disconcerted that there are people who support our President with pride and enthusiasm.

What do you think?

I am cautiously hoping that the world's strategy of threats against Korean violence, along with offers of peaceful resolution, will prevail and achieve peace. But know one knows what Kim Jong-un will do. All we know is that the Left will blame Trump if it turns out badly. They will not give him credit if it ends peacefully.

Meanwhile, Trump is doing exactly what Kennedy did during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Ultimatums up front, combined with offers for peace. I hope is works again this time.
I try not to think about Trump. But I will think about the problems he is facing.

Trump's off the cuff freelancing (it was not a speech and it's not clear that it was even policy) seemed to be a little like Truman's verbal ultimatum to the Japanese. And Truman's comments were off the cuff as well. Kennedy was articulating policy from a written speech. That was not off the cuff or freelancing at all.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Del » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:21 am

A_Morley wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:14 am
Del, you are an awkward, obsolete ignoramus and what you think about this issue simply does not matter. You are destroying CPS with your constant ranting and I have come to genuinely dislike you.

I think that I dislike Goose even more, but I will address that later. I will not rest until one of us is brought to heel. Your kind of mindset is not only annoying, it is dangerous.

You have an air of danger about you.
Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.
I am not dangerous. I have let one CPS bully goad me into bad behavior. It will not happen again.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: North Korea

Post by durangopipe » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:27 am

A timeline of North Korea's nuclear program for perspective:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin ... ar_program

An article exploring the US's options and the likely consequences of acting on those options:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... th/528717/

I agree with Del that this situation is serious and requires thoughtfulness in the electorate beyond simple "blame." This situation has been decades in the making.

But regarding where we stand today, I also agree with those who are deeply concerned that our current president's often demonstrated lack of understanding of complex matters and distrust of those who have spent their lives in service to the nation gaining that understanding, his propensity for unvetted and ill-considered outbursts and this administration's failure to properly staff critical embassies and agencies like the DOE and the State Department are cause for legitimate concern regarding an unintended and catastrophic nuclear exchange.

I'll be asked for sources. There are far too many to cite and too little time, but this is not a bad start:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07 ... hael-lewis
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Re: North Korea

Post by A_Morley » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:30 am

Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:21 am
A_Morley wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:14 am
Del, you are an awkward, obsolete ignoramus and what you think about this issue simply does not matter. You are destroying CPS with your constant ranting and I have come to genuinely dislike you.

I think that I dislike Goose even more, but I will address that later. I will not rest until one of us is brought to heel. Your kind of mindset is not only annoying, it is dangerous.

You have an air of danger about you.
Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.
I am not dangerous. I have let one CPS bully goad me into bad behavior. It will not happen again.
My intransigence to your soapboxing isn't bullying. I do not oppose you out of philosophical difference. What more would you have me do? Why, why, why, Del? Why do you insist on making this place your political echo chamber? The more than demonstrated fact of an overwhelming majority of the members of CPS agreeing with you politically has never been enough. So what would you rather have happen? The few stragglers to kowtow to you? Is that what you want? Will we continue to be held hostage until then?
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Re: North Korea

Post by Del » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:32 am

Rusty wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:19 am
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:34 am

You could offer your own thoughts... or at least comment on the article you posted.

Thunktank thinks that Trump is a "war-lord."

TNLP thinks that Trump is a snowflake who requires dossiers of constant affirmation.

Tuttle is disconcerted that there are people who support our President with pride and enthusiasm.

What do you think?

I am cautiously hoping that the world's strategy of threats against Korean violence, along with offers of peaceful resolution, will prevail and achieve peace. But know one knows what Kim Jong-un will do. All we know is that the Left will blame Trump if it turns out badly. They will not give him credit if it ends peacefully.

Meanwhile, Trump is doing exactly what Kennedy did during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Ultimatums up front, combined with offers for peace. I hope is works again this time.
I try not to think about Trump. But I will think about the problems he is facing.

Trump's off the cuff freelancing (it was not a speech and it's not clear that it was even policy) seemed to be a little like Truman's verbal ultimatum to the Japanese. And Truman's comments were off the cuff as well. Kennedy was articulating policy from a written speech. That was not off the cuff or freelancing at all.
FYI -- In his day, Truman was ridiculed, lampooned, and disrespected as badly as Trump is now.

You are not alone in comparing Trump's "Fire & Fury" to Harry Truman's speech announcing the atomic bomb:
http://theweek.com/speedreads/717284/tr ... -hiroshima


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Ib4wTq0jY
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: North Korea

Post by Jester » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:35 am

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Re: North Korea

Post by A_Morley » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:37 am

Admit it. You like upsetting people.

Am I a fool and a traitor because I like having a place I can go online where I can talk about and learn about pipes and tobacco? It will never be enough that I am a conservative, a Christian, and a pipe smoker. There is this sore spot in your brain that you cannot stop poking at and every place where your presence is known will have to continuously endure and placate this special madness of yours.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Jester » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:41 am

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Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

When chaos manifests itself, what makes you think that anyone tame will be good for anything? -Jordan B. Peterson

Every morning get alone with God and preach his Word into your mind until your heart sings with confidence that you are new and cared for. -John Piper

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Re: North Korea

Post by A_Morley » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:50 am

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Re: North Korea

Post by TNLawPiper » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:53 am

Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:32 am
Rusty wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:19 am
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:34 am

You could offer your own thoughts... or at least comment on the article you posted.

Thunktank thinks that Trump is a "war-lord."

TNLP thinks that Trump is a snowflake who requires dossiers of constant affirmation.

Tuttle is disconcerted that there are people who support our President with pride and enthusiasm.

What do you think?

I am cautiously hoping that the world's strategy of threats against Korean violence, along with offers of peaceful resolution, will prevail and achieve peace. But know one knows what Kim Jong-un will do. All we know is that the Left will blame Trump if it turns out badly. They will not give him credit if it ends peacefully.

Meanwhile, Trump is doing exactly what Kennedy did during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Ultimatums up front, combined with offers for peace. I hope is works again this time.
I try not to think about Trump. But I will think about the problems he is facing.

Trump's off the cuff freelancing (it was not a speech and it's not clear that it was even policy) seemed to be a little like Truman's verbal ultimatum to the Japanese. And Truman's comments were off the cuff as well. Kennedy was articulating policy from a written speech. That was not off the cuff or freelancing at all.
FYI -- In his day, Truman was ridiculed, lampooned, and disrespected as badly as Trump is now.

You are not alone in comparing Trump's "Fire & Fury" to Harry Truman's speech announcing the atomic bomb:
http://theweek.com/speedreads/717284/tr ... -hiroshima


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Ib4wTq0jY
I sincerely doubt President Truman needed the constant affirmation and groveling Trump needs.

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Re: North Korea

Post by A_Morley » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:01 pm

If Del were to change anyone's mind do you think that that would satisfy him? I submit that his behavior is evidence of a pathological compulsion that we all abet him in playing out.

While one might say that I am only further abetting I think that the community conversation, if it must reflect concerns other than pipes and tobacco, should reflect Del's pathology as it is, I think, an issue of direct concern.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Del » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:01 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:27 am
A timeline of North Korea's nuclear program for perspective:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin ... ar_program

An article exploring the US's options and the likely consequences of acting on those options:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... th/528717/

I agree with Del that this situation is serious and requires thoughtfulness in the electorate beyond simple "blame." This situation has been decades in the making.

But regarding where we stand today, I also agree with those who are deeply concerned that our current president's often demonstrated lack of understanding of complex matters and distrust of those who have spent their lives in service to the nation gaining that understanding, his propensity for unvetted and ill-considered outbursts and this administration's failure to properly staff critical embassies and agencies like the DOE and the State Department are cause for legitimate concern regarding an unintended and catastrophic nuclear exchange.

I'll be asked for sources. There are far too many to cite and too little time, but this is not a bad start:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07 ... hael-lewis
I have my own reasons for respecting Vanity Fair. I will give this article a good study.

Meanwhile.... I have not observed any "unvetted and ill-considered outbursts." He usually seems to know what he is doing, and with great effect. (well, there was that hilarious "covfefe" tweet.)

However, I have seen the leftist media accuse President Trump of these things, almost daily. These same people keep telling me that the Trump Administration is in "chaos." They also say "unhinged" a lot.

And now that there is a real international crisis confronting us (not just some empty-word "Paris Accord"), the media have no vocabulary to say "stand together for America."

A paranoid, psychotic dictator with a god-complex has ICBM's with atomic warheads, and he is pointing them at America.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: North Korea

Post by A_Morley » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:03 pm

While your pathology and psychological hangups continue to hold CPS hostage.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Del » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:04 pm

A_Morley wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:30 am
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:21 am
A_Morley wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:14 am
Del, you are an awkward, obsolete ignoramus and what you think about this issue simply does not matter. You are destroying CPS with your constant ranting and I have come to genuinely dislike you.

I think that I dislike Goose even more, but I will address that later. I will not rest until one of us is brought to heel. Your kind of mindset is not only annoying, it is dangerous.

You have an air of danger about you.
Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.
I am not dangerous. I have let one CPS bully goad me into bad behavior. It will not happen again.
My intransigence to your soapboxing isn't bullying. I do not oppose you out of philosophical difference. What more would you have me do? Why, why, why, Del? Why do you insist on making this place your political echo chamber? The more than demonstrated fact of an overwhelming majority of the members of CPS agreeing with you politically has never been enough. So what would you rather have happen? The few stragglers to kowtow to you? Is that what you want? Will we continue to be held hostage until then?
If there are any stragglers kowtowing to me, I have not noticed them.

Bullying is not about arguing "philosophy." It is making the conflict personal.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: North Korea

Post by Thunktank » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:08 pm

Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:34 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 am
+JMJ+

I hereby pronounce this thread …
Image
You could offer your own thoughts... or at least comment on the article you posted.

Thunktank thinks that Trump is a "war-lord."

TNLP thinks that Trump is a snowflake who requires dossiers of constant affirmation.

Tuttle is disconcerted that there are people who support our President with pride and enthusiasm.

What do you think?

I am cautiously hoping that the world's strategy of threats against Korean violence, along with offers of peaceful resolution, will prevail and achieve peace. But know one knows what Kim Jong-un will do. All we know is that the Left will blame Trump if it turns out badly. They will not give him credit if it ends peacefully.

Meanwhile, Trump is doing exactly what Kennedy did during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Ultimatums up front, combined with offers for peace. I hope is works again this time.
Del, don't put words in my mouth. I said, "I couldn't believe how war-lord like Trump spoke the other day." Hyphen and all even! Then you swashbuckle right on through and call me a liberal, which is again, not true. I'm a centrist, not that you care or understand, because your binary approach to all things, disables your ability to succinctly understand that what people actually believe that isn't the straw people you create in your mind about them.

Now to clarify, I only commented on his little off the cuff speech of fire and destruction. Nothing more. But, I oppose such rethoric because I believe it escalates the problem, not de escalate it as is appropriate for an American president to try to do. If North Korea actually bombs someone, then and only then shall we act with fire and destruction against the enemy, we need not beat our chest and open our collective mouth through our President like this. The solution to this problem is clear to me. We quietly prepare to defend and destroy while saying as little as possible to or about North Korea accept with other countries who act as part of the solution, we carry out UN sanctions and ignore this despotic regime as much as possible, while making very clear that any attack from him will be responded appropriately to.

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Re: North Korea

Post by A_Morley » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:09 pm

Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:04 pm
A_Morley wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:30 am
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:21 am
A_Morley wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:14 am
Del, you are an awkward, obsolete ignoramus and what you think about this issue simply does not matter. You are destroying CPS with your constant ranting and I have come to genuinely dislike you.

I think that I dislike Goose even more, but I will address that later. I will not rest until one of us is brought to heel. Your kind of mindset is not only annoying, it is dangerous.

You have an air of danger about you.
Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.
I am not dangerous. I have let one CPS bully goad me into bad behavior. It will not happen again.
My intransigence to your soapboxing isn't bullying. I do not oppose you out of philosophical difference. What more would you have me do? Why, why, why, Del? Why do you insist on making this place your political echo chamber? The more than demonstrated fact of an overwhelming majority of the members of CPS agreeing with you politically has never been enough. So what would you rather have happen? The few stragglers to kowtow to you? Is that what you want? Will we continue to be held hostage until then?
If there are any stragglers kowtowing to me, I have not noticed them.

Bullying is not about arguing "philosophy." It is making the conflict personal.
And I say that there wouldn't be conflict if you didn't keep generating it for your own pathological gratification. These issues and these arguments arise from disorders in your personality and so it was personal from the beginning.
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Re: North Korea

Post by Jester » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:16 pm

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Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

When chaos manifests itself, what makes you think that anyone tame will be good for anything? -Jordan B. Peterson

Every morning get alone with God and preach his Word into your mind until your heart sings with confidence that you are new and cared for. -John Piper

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Re: North Korea

Post by Del » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:27 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:08 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:34 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 am
+JMJ+

I hereby pronounce this thread …
Image
You could offer your own thoughts... or at least comment on the article you posted.

Thunktank thinks that Trump is a "war-lord."

TNLP thinks that Trump is a snowflake who requires dossiers of constant affirmation.

Tuttle is disconcerted that there are people who support our President with pride and enthusiasm.

What do you think?

I am cautiously hoping that the world's strategy of threats against Korean violence, along with offers of peaceful resolution, will prevail and achieve peace. But know one knows what Kim Jong-un will do. All we know is that the Left will blame Trump if it turns out badly. They will not give him credit if it ends peacefully.

Meanwhile, Trump is doing exactly what Kennedy did during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Ultimatums up front, combined with offers for peace. I hope is works again this time.
Del, don't put words in my mouth. I said, "I couldn't believe how war-lord like Trump spoke the other day." Hyphen and all even! Then you swashbuckle right on through and call me a liberal, which is again, not true. I'm a centrist, not that you care or understand, because your binary approach to all things, disables your ability to succinctly understand that what people actually believe that isn't the straw people you create in your mind about them.

Now to clarify, I only commented on his little off the cuff speech of fire and destruction. Nothing more. But, I oppose such rethoric because I believe it escalates the problem, not de escalate it as is appropriate for an American president to try to do. If North Korea actually bombs someone, then and only then shall we act with fire and destruction against the enemy, we need not beat our chest and open our collective mouth through our President like this. The solution to this problem is clear to me. We quietly prepare to defend and destroy while saying as little as possible to or about North Korea accept with other countries who act as part of the solution, we carry out UN sanctions and ignore this despotic regime as much as possible, while making very clear that any attack from him will be responded appropriately to.
Hmmm.... I call myself a centrist, too. And we would probably sort this out well over a pipe or two.

I am tired of our buddy Wosbald posting a link to an article, no comment provided.... then declaring a thread "Delled" as we talk about it.

I didn't mean to mis-represent you. Just pointing out that you expressed a clear opinion, using a memorable word from your post. And I am thankful for it.

I am especially glad that you propose some real plan of action. To me, your plan sounds exactly like what Trump is doing. Trump was not "beating our chest." He was "making very clear that any attack from [Kim] will be responded appropriately to."

Two points to consider:
- We have tried peaceful appeasement. Clear threats are the only language that these terrorist states and despots understand.
- Would we be any better off if Hillary were in charge? Are there any American leaders whom you would rather see us through this?

We look at peaceful de-escalations of history, and they often started with threats of massive retaliation. (Contrast with Neville Chamberlain's peace accord with Hitler.) How much more time do we give North Korea to build up their arsenal? And remember that Iran is watching this closely.

I look at Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy.... Our enemies have learned to respect America when we state our clear firmness of will.
Last edited by Del on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: North Korea

Post by Rusty » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:30 pm

Del wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:01 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:27 am
A timeline of North Korea's nuclear program for perspective:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin ... ar_program

An article exploring the US's options and the likely consequences of acting on those options:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... th/528717/

I agree with Del that this situation is serious and requires thoughtfulness in the electorate beyond simple "blame." This situation has been decades in the making.

But regarding where we stand today, I also agree with those who are deeply concerned that our current president's often demonstrated lack of understanding of complex matters and distrust of those who have spent their lives in service to the nation gaining that understanding, his propensity for unvetted and ill-considered outbursts and this administration's failure to properly staff critical embassies and agencies like the DOE and the State Department are cause for legitimate concern regarding an unintended and catastrophic nuclear exchange.

I'll be asked for sources. There are far too many to cite and too little time, but this is not a bad start:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07 ... hael-lewis
I have my own reasons for respecting Vanity Fair. I will give this article a good study.

Meanwhile.... I have not observed any "unvetted and ill-considered outbursts." He usually seems to know what he is doing, and with great effect. (well, there was that hilarious "covfefe" tweet.)

However, I have seen the leftist media accuse President Trump of these things, almost daily. These same people keep telling me that the Trump Administration is in "chaos." They also say "unhinged" a lot.

And now that there is a real international crisis confronting us (not just some empty-word "Paris Accord"), the media have no vocabulary to say "stand together for America."

A paranoid, psychotic dictator with a god-complex has ICBM's with atomic warheads, and he is pointing them at America.
Why would Trump point warheads at America? This is his latest madness, right?
Chaos and unhinged are commonly accepted words that do describe the White House. It's not just respected journalists, but respected Senators have also used those terms. Many in Canada are nervous about Trump and we use those terms too. Britain uses those terms, so do France and Germany. I think there's a good chance that some translation of them is used in Russia and China too to describe the White House.
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