Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Thoth » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm

So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Jocose » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:44 pm

Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
Sad.

I do hope that this Story of Hank and his conversion will bring many people home to the Ancient Church.
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Del » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:14 pm

Jocose wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:44 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
Sad.

I do hope that this Story of Hank and his conversion will bring many people home to the Ancient Church.
From the link:
His sin in their eyes [Bible-loving Evangelicals]: Converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, the world’s second largest Christian denomination and one steeped in rituals, icons and mysticism – aspects of faith that seem foreign to many evangelical Protestants.
Not only is Orthodoxy the "second largest" Christian Church (technically, Orthodoxy is not a "denomination"), but it is also the oldest Christian Church... She was established by Jesus Christ, Himself.
Instead of tradition, they look to the Bible as the only infallible guide and the final authority on matters of Christian faith and practice.
That is their tradition, yes.... The problem is, that tradition is not biblical.

Jesus established a Church, and the New Testament Scriptures were given to this Church. The Bible is meant to be read by persons who have already been taught the Sacred Teaching of the Apostles, which is inspired by the Holy Spirit every bit as much as the Bible is.
2 Thess 2:15, as St. Paul wrote:So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
The Bible Answer Man wants to follow the bible completely. He wants to live in the Scripture... and so, he does what the earliest Christians did.
Let God arise! Let His enemies be scattered! And let all who hate Him flee before His Holy Face! - Ps 67

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Goose55 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:26 pm

Jocose wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:44 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
Sad.

I do hope that this Story of Hank and his conversion will bring many people home to the Ancient Church.
When we speak of the Ancient Church, or the Church Fathers, we really must speak of the Apostolic Church which is described in the Book of Acts.

Note the dates, before Constantine. The earliest Apostolic Fathers were:

Clement of Rome (? – ca. 98)
Ignatius of Antioch (? – ca. 98/110)
Polycarp (ca. 70 – ca.155/167)
Didache
Epistle of Barnabas
Shepherd of Hermas
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Thunktank » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:16 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:26 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:44 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
Sad.

I do hope that this Story of Hank and his conversion will bring many people home to the Ancient Church.
When we speak of the Ancient Church, or the Church Fathers, we really must speak of the Apostolic Church which is described in the Book of Acts.

Note the dates, before Constantine. The earliest Apostolic Fathers were:

Clement of Rome (? – ca. 98)
Ignatius of Antioch (? – ca. 98/110)
Polycarp (ca. 70 – ca.155/167)
Didache
Epistle of Barnabas
Shepherd of Hermas
That limitation isn't part of Apostolic faith, Goose. The Apostolic faith and church is believed to be the faith and church that is carried on through the ages from the days of the Apostles, protected by the Holy Spirt. Constantine couldn't and didn't end it. That's a weird perspective of Evangelicals who somehow seem to believe that the Apostolic faith was destroyed by a single emperor, yet their faith is superior and capable of withstanding the modern social and political trappings of 21 century America. Also, the church doesn't die according to Apostolic Christians, it's the same church today as the early church was. To some Orthodox, they read the book of Acts and see the very same exact church they attend now. It's not merely an ancient church that was, but it's an ancient church that is.

Oh dear, I did it again.

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by wosbald » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:40 pm

+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:16 pm
That limitation isn't part of Apostolic faith, Goose. The Apostolic faith and church is believed to be the faith and church that is carried on through the ages from the days of the Apostles, protected by the Holy Spirt. Constantine couldn't and didn't end it. That's a weird perspective of Evangelicals who somehow seem to believe that the Apostolic faith was destroyed by a single emperor, yet their faith is superior and capable of withstanding the modern social and political trappings of 21 century America. Also, the church doesn't die according to Apostolic Christians, it's the same church today as the early church was. To some Orthodox, they read the book of Acts and see the very same exact church they attend now. It's not merely an ancient church that was, but it's an ancient church that is.

Oh dear, I did it again.
According to Peter Kreeft's telling of it:
When Napoleon kidnapped the pope, he said, "We will destroy you." The pope said, "Ha. We haven't been able to destroy ourselves for two thousand years. You won't be able to do it, either."




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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Goose55 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:44 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:16 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:26 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:44 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
Sad.

I do hope that this Story of Hank and his conversion will bring many people home to the Ancient Church.
When we speak of the Ancient Church, or the Church Fathers, we really must speak of the Apostolic Church which is described in the Book of Acts.

Note the dates, before Constantine. The earliest Apostolic Fathers were:

Clement of Rome (? – ca. 98)
Ignatius of Antioch (? – ca. 98/110)
Polycarp (ca. 70 – ca.155/167)
Didache
Epistle of Barnabas
Shepherd of Hermas
That limitation isn't part of Apostolic faith, Goose. The Apostolic faith and church is believed to be the faith and church that is carried on through the ages from the days of the Apostles, protected by the Holy Spirt. Constantine couldn't and didn't end it. That's a weird perspective of Evangelicals who somehow seem to believe that the Apostolic faith was destroyed by a single emperor, yet their faith is superior and capable of withstanding the modern social and political trappings of 21 century America. Also, the church doesn't die according to Apostolic Christians, it's the same church today as the early church was. To some Orthodox, they read the book of Acts and see the very same exact church they attend now. It's not merely an ancient church that was, but it's an ancient church that is.
Well said. Agreed.
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:16 pm
through the ages from the days of the Apostles, protected by the Holy Spirit.
I love that.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Jocose » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:30 am

Goose55 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:26 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:44 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
Sad.

I do hope that this Story of Hank and his conversion will bring many people home to the Ancient Church.
When we speak of the Ancient Church, or the Church Fathers, we really must speak of the Apostolic Church which is described in the Book of Acts.

...
Yes, that is what I was talking about, the Apostolic Church described in the Book of Acts.
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Goose55 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:08 am

Jocose wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:30 am
Goose55 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:26 pm
Jocose wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:44 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
Sad.

I do hope that this Story of Hank and his conversion will bring many people home to the Ancient Church.
When we speak of the Ancient Church, or the Church Fathers, we really must speak of the Apostolic Church which is described in the Book of Acts.

...
Yes, that is what I was talking about, the Apostolic Church described in the Book of Acts.
But today, when we look at this, it seems the Christian Church, at large, is a far cry from the way it was:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... %202:42-47

But perhaps Jesus's words to the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well, helps us. I like the way Eugene Peterson, in his The Message translation renders this:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=MSG
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by tuttle » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm

Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
I was glad they included a video of Hank's explanation of why he went EO. It was his belief in the real presence of Christ that sealed the deal. Now I'm here to tell you that I don't find this hard to understand whatsoever. That is, that a man who has dedicated his life to understanding and explaining the Scriptures would 'discover' that Christ is present in the supper via the Scriptures. That is to say, regardless of where one stands on trying to interpret Hank's move from evangelicalism to Eastern Orthodoxy, you can't straight up say his move or his reasons for moving are unbiblical. But here's another thing-- that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. It is no secret that the Table has been slighted and ignored within Evangelicalism. In some Evangelical Neighborhoods the idea of Christ's presence is a down-right dangerous position to hold. Hank's newfound belief and subsequent move is akin to movin' on up to the East side because he'd rather not deal with all the Memorialist thugs. The living is better and healthier and there aren't any of those unsightly Baptist bullet holes in his property. Some folks stick around because it's home and for others it's probably wiser to find a different location. Especially for someone who has name recognition like Hank. And speaking as one who still lives in the ghetto, I can only hope this reason for his moving sparks more than just resentment and name calling and helps draw attention to the real problems evangelicalism has with their Supper theology and practice. Along those lines, pray for me, a missionary feeling fruitless among my own people.
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by mustangii » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:43 pm

tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
I was glad they included a video of Hank's explanation of why he went EO. It was his belief in the real presence of Christ that sealed the deal. Now I'm here to tell you that I don't find this hard to understand whatsoever. That is, that a man who has dedicated his life to understanding and explaining the Scriptures would 'discover' that Christ is present in the supper via the Scriptures. That is to say, regardless of where one stands on trying to interpret Hank's move from evangelicalism to Eastern Orthodoxy, you can't straight up say his move or his reasons for moving are unbiblical. But here's another thing-- that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. It is no secret that the Table has been slighted and ignored within Evangelicalism. In some Evangelical Neighborhoods the idea of Christ's presence is a down-right dangerous position to hold. Hank's newfound belief and subsequent move is akin to movin' on up to the East side because he'd rather not deal with all the Memorialist thugs. The living is better and healthier and there aren't any of those unsightly Baptist bullet holes in his property. Some folks stick around because it's home and for others it's probably wiser to find a different location. Especially for someone who has name recognition like Hank. And speaking as one who still lives in the ghetto, I can only hope this reason for his moving sparks more than just resentment and name calling and helps draw attention to the real problems evangelicalism has with their Supper theology and practice. Along those lines, pray for me, a missionary feeling fruitless among my own people.
I feel the same Tuttle, The further Protestants have moved away from the apostolic Church the more we lost. we have gotten to the point that we come to the Lord's table and eat crackers and Grape juice as an remembrance of him. We no longer partake of His body and His blood.
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Thoth » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:26 pm

mustangii wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:43 pm
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
Thoth wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:21 pm
So apparently Bott thought the show wasn't biblical anymore after Hank's conversion

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living ... 30349.html
I was glad they included a video of Hank's explanation of why he went EO. It was his belief in the real presence of Christ that sealed the deal. Now I'm here to tell you that I don't find this hard to understand whatsoever. That is, that a man who has dedicated his life to understanding and explaining the Scriptures would 'discover' that Christ is present in the supper via the Scriptures. That is to say, regardless of where one stands on trying to interpret Hank's move from evangelicalism to Eastern Orthodoxy, you can't straight up say his move or his reasons for moving are unbiblical. But here's another thing-- that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. It is no secret that the Table has been slighted and ignored within Evangelicalism. In some Evangelical Neighborhoods the idea of Christ's presence is a down-right dangerous position to hold. Hank's newfound belief and subsequent move is akin to movin' on up to the East side because he'd rather not deal with all the Memorialist thugs. The living is better and healthier and there aren't any of those unsightly Baptist bullet holes in his property. Some folks stick around because it's home and for others it's probably wiser to find a different location. Especially for someone who has name recognition like Hank. And speaking as one who still lives in the ghetto, I can only hope this reason for his moving sparks more than just resentment and name calling and helps draw attention to the real problems evangelicalism has with their Supper theology and practice. Along those lines, pray for me, a missionary feeling fruitless among my own people.
I feel the same Tuttle, The further Protestants have moved away from the apostolic Church the more we lost. we have gotten to the point that we come to the Lord's table and eat crackers and Grape juice as an remembrance of him. We no longer partake of His body and His blood.
This reminds me of a funny story, when I was in second grade my parents were in a bad car accident and were hospitalized for several months in that time we live with my aunt and uncle, who prayed in an evangelical church and would take us to the services until one Sunday it was Communion Sunday and they passed the out the juice and crackers. The pastor after asked how I liked communion and I told him that wasn't communion that was just juice and cracker and not Jesus' body and blood. And 7 year old self insisted it was not communion despite the pastors insistence it was. After that they stopped taking us to their services.

How much do you fight to reform and when do you pack up and "move on up to the east side"? Im not asking to be a jerk but to me it seems within your system of church governance you would be able to do than I would within mine, which works both for good and bad.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by wosbald » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:42 pm

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
… that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. …
Huh? What else is the Protestant distinctive predicated upon other than a rejection of Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism? If one affirms these, is there, beyond simply the world of Evangelicalism, room for them anywhere within Protestantism?




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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by tuttle » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:04 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:42 pm
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
… that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. …
Huh? What else is the Protestant distinctive predicated upon other than a rejection of Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism? If one affirms these, is there, beyond simply the world of Evangelicalism, room for them anywhere within Protestantism?
One does not need to affirm Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism in order to affirm the real presence of Christ in the Supper. (It was precisely those things the Reformers sought to reform.) Nor does one need to affirm a specified how Christ is present in order to affirm that Christ is really present.
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by tuttle » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:10 am

Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:26 pm
How much do you fight to reform and when do you pack up and "move on up to the east side"? Im not asking to be a jerk but to me it seems within your system of church governance you would be able to do than I would within mine, which works both for good and bad.
It's a good question. Honestly, I think it mostly derives on, first, the local situation and probably more details than we'd be able to assess around here. For me, I've not reached any kind of point yet where I don't see cracks in the wall that I can keep chipping away at. Maybe the fight leads to flight only after I've exhausted my resources or have come to the point of realization that pearls are being cast before swine...which might be where Hank was at?

But you are right, in a 'free church' structure, there is much more wiggle room, much more ability to grow a body in sound teaching/worship/etc. (But you're also right that it can work for bad...as evidenced in the current communion drought)
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by wosbald » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:24 am

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:04 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:42 pm
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
… that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. …
Huh? What else is the Protestant distinctive predicated upon other than a rejection of Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism? If one affirms these, is there, beyond simply the world of Evangelicalism, room for them anywhere within Protestantism?
One does not need to affirm Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism in order to affirm the real presence of Christ in the Supper. (It was precisely those things the Reformers sought to reform.) Nor does one need to affirm a specified how Christ is present in order to affirm that Christ is really present.
But one does have to affirm for whom he is present.

Is he present for all men without exception? Or present only for the Elect/Regenerate?

That, right there, is the difference that makes Sacramentalism/Sacerdotalism.




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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by tuttle » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:49 am

wosbald wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:24 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:04 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:42 pm
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
… that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. …
Huh? What else is the Protestant distinctive predicated upon other than a rejection of Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism? If one affirms these, is there, beyond simply the world of Evangelicalism, room for them anywhere within Protestantism?
One does not need to affirm Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism in order to affirm the real presence of Christ in the Supper. (It was precisely those things the Reformers sought to reform.) Nor does one need to affirm a specified how Christ is present in order to affirm that Christ is really present.
But one does have to affirm for whom he is present.

Is he present for all men without exception? Or present only for the Elect/Regenerate?

That, right there, is the difference that makes Sacramentalism/Sacerdotalism.
No one has to affirm anything. The command is to eat and drink, not to eat and understand or affirm.

That said, I think we can find enough evidence in the Apostle's writings to affirm that all those who partake are to do so in faith.
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by wosbald » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:55 am

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:49 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:24 am
tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:04 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:42 pm
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
… that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. …
Huh? What else is the Protestant distinctive predicated upon other than a rejection of Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism? If one affirms these, is there, beyond simply the world of Evangelicalism, room for them anywhere within Protestantism?
One does not need to affirm Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism in order to affirm the real presence of Christ in the Supper. (It was precisely those things the Reformers sought to reform.) Nor does one need to affirm a specified how Christ is present in order to affirm that Christ is really present.
But one does have to affirm for whom he is present.

Is he present for all men without exception? Or present only for the Elect/Regenerate?

That, right there, is the difference that makes Sacramentalism/Sacerdotalism.
No one has to affirm anything. The command is to eat and drink, not to eat and understand or affirm.

That said, I think we can find enough evidence in the Apostle's writings to affirm that all those who partake are to do so in faith.
'Tis true enough that no one would've had to affirm anything had some not denied that Jesus is really present for all men without exception.




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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by tuttle » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:12 am

wosbald wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:55 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:49 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:24 am
tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:04 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:42 pm
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
… that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. …
Huh? What else is the Protestant distinctive predicated upon other than a rejection of Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism? If one affirms these, is there, beyond simply the world of Evangelicalism, room for them anywhere within Protestantism?
One does not need to affirm Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism in order to affirm the real presence of Christ in the Supper. (It was precisely those things the Reformers sought to reform.) Nor does one need to affirm a specified how Christ is present in order to affirm that Christ is really present.
But one does have to affirm for whom he is present.

Is he present for all men without exception? Or present only for the Elect/Regenerate?

That, right there, is the difference that makes Sacramentalism/Sacerdotalism.
No one has to affirm anything. The command is to eat and drink, not to eat and understand or affirm.

That said, I think we can find enough evidence in the Apostle's writings to affirm that all those who partake are to do so in faith.
'Tis true enough that no one would've had to affirm anything had some not denied that Jesus is really present for all men without exception.
Not really the case. The reformers were rather denying that a priest was needed to do the ol' switcheroo, which ultimately resulted in negating the faith of the partaker. No need to eat and drink in faith if the priest can do it for you.
"You're my kind of stupid" -Mal Reynolds

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Del
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Re: Hank Hanegraaff "The Bible Answer Man" has gone Orthodox

Post by Del » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:33 am

tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:49 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:24 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:04 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:42 pm
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 pm
… that Hank finds Christ to be present in the Eucharist to be true doesn't mean such a belief can only be maintained outside of Evangelicalism and therefore must automatically mean someone must jump to another ship.

What I think validates Hank's move isn't the fact that he now believes something that is un-believable within Evangelicalism, but rather he now believes something that is cherished and highlighted within another tradition. …
Huh? What else is the Protestant distinctive predicated upon other than a rejection of Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism? If one affirms these, is there, beyond simply the world of Evangelicalism, room for them anywhere within Protestantism?
One does not need to affirm Sacramentalism and Sacerdotalism in order to affirm the real presence of Christ in the Supper. (It was precisely those things the Reformers sought to reform.) Nor does one need to affirm a specified how Christ is present in order to affirm that Christ is really present.
But one does have to affirm for whom he is present.

Is he present for all men without exception? Or present only for the Elect/Regenerate?

That, right there, is the difference that makes Sacramentalism/Sacerdotalism.
No one has to affirm anything. The command is to eat and drink, not to eat and understand or affirm.

That said, I think we can find enough evidence in the Apostle's writings to affirm that all those who partake are to do so in faith.
Jesus: Take this, and eat it.

Apostles: Why?

Jesus: Because this is My Body.

Jesus: Take this, and drink it.

Apostles: Why?

Jesus: Because this is my Blood. The Blood of the New Covenant. Whenever you eat My Flesh and drink My Blood, you remember this Covenant.
Last edited by Del on Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Let God arise! Let His enemies be scattered! And let all who hate Him flee before His Holy Face! - Ps 67

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