A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by FredS » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:07 am

hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:02 am
I live in Pittsburgh.
Yet Jesus loves you.
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:14 am

FredS wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:07 am
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:02 am
I live in Pittsburgh.
Yet Jesus loves you.
What a uniquely Protestant phrase.

Remember the effing aitch, people. It isn't hard. It might be harder for goat herders from Kansas, but it is not really that difficult.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by infidel » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:43 am

hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:14 am
FredS wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:07 am
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:02 am
I live in Pittsburgh.
Yet Jesus loves you.
What a uniquely Protestant phrase.

Remember the effing aitch, people. It isn't hard. It might be harder for goat herders from Kansas, but it is not really that difficult.
I never realized it was pronounced Pits-burf. Learn something new every day
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by infidel » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:49 am

TNLawPiper wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:53 am
Do you want sects? Because this is how you get sects.
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by infidel » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:59 am

Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:58 pm
I thought anything related to mirth or laughter was burned down in the library by the creepy blind monk before Sean Connery could get his hands on it.
FTW
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Thoth » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:05 am

infidel wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:59 am
Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:58 pm
I thought anything related to mirth or laughter was burned down in the library by the creepy blind monk before Sean Connery could get his hands on it.
FTW
I was worried no one would get the reference (though probably most people didn't care).
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Sir Moose » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:20 am

Thoth wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:05 am
infidel wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:59 am
Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:58 pm
I thought anything related to mirth or laughter was burned down in the library by the creepy blind monk before Sean Connery could get his hands on it.
FTW
I was worried no one would get the reference (though probably most people didn't care).
I would have gotten the reference, but somehow missed the post until infidel brought it up. I used to have a copy of the book--not sure what I ever did with that.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:30 am

Sir Moose wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:20 am
Thoth wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:05 am
infidel wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:59 am
Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:58 pm
I thought anything related to mirth or laughter was burned down in the library by the creepy blind monk before Sean Connery could get his hands on it.
FTW
I was worried no one would get the reference (though probably most people didn't care).
I would have gotten the reference, but somehow missed the post until infidel brought it up. I used to have a copy of the book--not sure what I ever did with that.
Bah, a rose by any other name just wouldn't sound right.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Onyx » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:13 pm

Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:20 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:57 pm
Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:41 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:39 pm
For instance. . .
As much as he may sometimes deserve it, I find it impossible to hate Del. I've hung out with the real-life Del. We ate and drank together. We've shared tobacco and car rides. Our spouses have met. We've prayed together and played together..
Image

You are so right about life generally. It's so good to meet, share, work and enjoy the good times with different sorts. Muslims, atheists, gays, even Chestertonians.
Those Chestertonians are such a dour lot, right?

Which reminds me of something.... Chesterton never claimed to be a theologian, and few people think of him as such. He was a humorist, journalist, philosopher, novelist, essayist, writer of mystery detective stories, cartoonist, economist, Christian apologist, historian, biographer, lecturer, debater, and all-around absent-minded fellow.... but not a theologian.

But at a recent Chesterton conference, a real-life academic theologian gave a talk on the topic of Chesterton as a theologian. And it seems that Chesterton made a significant contribution with his unique insight into God's "mirth." God's sense of play, His child-like delight with His creation. It is found in the final paragraphs of Orthodoxy.
I'll see if I can scrape a layer of dust of that little volume and check those final pages.
So I re-read the last page of Orthodoxy. Lord, spare me from that tedious, self-assured drivel.
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by hugodrax » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:21 pm

Onyx wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:13 pm
Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:20 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:57 pm
Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:41 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:39 pm
For instance. . .
As much as he may sometimes deserve it, I find it impossible to hate Del. I've hung out with the real-life Del. We ate and drank together. We've shared tobacco and car rides. Our spouses have met. We've prayed together and played together..
Image

You are so right about life generally. It's so good to meet, share, work and enjoy the good times with different sorts. Muslims, atheists, gays, even Chestertonians.
Those Chestertonians are such a dour lot, right?

Which reminds me of something.... Chesterton never claimed to be a theologian, and few people think of him as such. He was a humorist, journalist, philosopher, novelist, essayist, writer of mystery detective stories, cartoonist, economist, Christian apologist, historian, biographer, lecturer, debater, and all-around absent-minded fellow.... but not a theologian.

But at a recent Chesterton conference, a real-life academic theologian gave a talk on the topic of Chesterton as a theologian. And it seems that Chesterton made a significant contribution with his unique insight into God's "mirth." God's sense of play, His child-like delight with His creation. It is found in the final paragraphs of Orthodoxy.
I'll see if I can scrape a layer of dust of that little volume and check those final pages.
So I re-read the last page of Orthodoxy. Lord, spare me from that tedious, self-assured drivel.
Good lord, man. Stop trolling Del. You're becoming his opposite number. You both say things just to set off the other fellow.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Del » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:29 pm

Onyx wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:13 pm
Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:20 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:57 pm
Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:41 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:39 pm
For instance. . .
As much as he may sometimes deserve it, I find it impossible to hate Del. I've hung out with the real-life Del. We ate and drank together. We've shared tobacco and car rides. Our spouses have met. We've prayed together and played together..
Image

You are so right about life generally. It's so good to meet, share, work and enjoy the good times with different sorts. Muslims, atheists, gays, even Chestertonians.
Those Chestertonians are such a dour lot, right?

Which reminds me of something.... Chesterton never claimed to be a theologian, and few people think of him as such. He was a humorist, journalist, philosopher, novelist, essayist, writer of mystery detective stories, cartoonist, economist, Christian apologist, historian, biographer, lecturer, debater, and all-around absent-minded fellow.... but not a theologian.

But at a recent Chesterton conference, a real-life academic theologian gave a talk on the topic of Chesterton as a theologian. And it seems that Chesterton made a significant contribution with his unique insight into God's "mirth." God's sense of play, His child-like delight with His creation. It is found in the final paragraphs of Orthodoxy.
I'll see if I can scrape a layer of dust of that little volume and check those final pages.
So I re-read the last page of Orthodoxy. Lord, spare me from that tedious, self-assured drivel.
I sometimes have difficulty laughing at myself, too.
So easy to take ourselves too seriously.
Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly.

It is easy to be heavy: hard to be light.
Satan fell by the force of gravity.
We see this in spectacular saints, like St. Joseph of Cupertino, whose heart was so light that we was frequently witnessed levitating.
A modern levitating saint, Padre Pio, was also fond of playing practical jokes on his fellow friars.
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Onyx » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:01 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:21 pm
Onyx wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:13 pm
Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:20 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:57 pm
Onyx wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:41 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:39 pm
For instance. . .
As much as he may sometimes deserve it, I find it impossible to hate Del. I've hung out with the real-life Del. We ate and drank together. We've shared tobacco and car rides. Our spouses have met. We've prayed together and played together..
Image

You are so right about life generally. It's so good to meet, share, work and enjoy the good times with different sorts. Muslims, atheists, gays, even Chestertonians.
Those Chestertonians are such a dour lot, right?

Which reminds me of something.... Chesterton never claimed to be a theologian, and few people think of him as such. He was a humorist, journalist, philosopher, novelist, essayist, writer of mystery detective stories, cartoonist, economist, Christian apologist, historian, biographer, lecturer, debater, and all-around absent-minded fellow.... but not a theologian.

But at a recent Chesterton conference, a real-life academic theologian gave a talk on the topic of Chesterton as a theologian. And it seems that Chesterton made a significant contribution with his unique insight into God's "mirth." God's sense of play, His child-like delight with His creation. It is found in the final paragraphs of Orthodoxy.
I'll see if I can scrape a layer of dust of that little volume and check those final pages.
So I re-read the last page of Orthodoxy. Lord, spare me from that tedious, self-assured drivel.
Good lord, man. Stop trolling Del. You're becoming his opposite number. You both say things just to set off the other fellow.
Ok. I'd just woken up. No coffee yet. Not an excuse... there is none. Just context.
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Thunktank » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:34 pm

Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:43 pm
" A hunter in the desert saw Father Anthony enjoying himself with the brothers and he was shocked. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brothers, the elder said to him, “Put an arrow in your bow and shoot it.” So he did. The elder then said, “Shoot another,” and he did so. Then the elder said, “Shoot yet again,” and the hunter replied, “If I bend my bow so much I will break it.” Then the elder said to him, “It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brothers beyond measure they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their needs.” When he heard these words the hunter was pierced by remorse and, greatly edified by the elder, he went away. As for the brothers, they went home strengthened." - from the sayings of St. Antony the Great
Did Saint Anthony play or did he condescend to brothers who play?

It often seems that tradition raise up those as most holy, who were also most serious and seem least likely to "play" unless it was with children. My perspective of Christian faith definitely leans toward play as immature. The mature and holy subsist off of being barefoot in the snow in prayer with so little appetite they forget to eat bread for days.

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Del » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:22 am

Thunktank wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:34 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:43 pm
" A hunter in the desert saw Father Anthony enjoying himself with the brothers and he was shocked. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brothers, the elder said to him, “Put an arrow in your bow and shoot it.” So he did. The elder then said, “Shoot another,” and he did so. Then the elder said, “Shoot yet again,” and the hunter replied, “If I bend my bow so much I will break it.” Then the elder said to him, “It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brothers beyond measure they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their needs.” When he heard these words the hunter was pierced by remorse and, greatly edified by the elder, he went away. As for the brothers, they went home strengthened." - from the sayings of St. Antony the Great
Did Saint Anthony play or did he condescend to brothers who play?

It often seems that tradition raise up those as most holy, who were also most serious and seem least likely to "play" unless it was with children. My perspective of Christian faith definitely leans toward play as immature. The mature and holy subsist off of being barefoot in the snow in prayer with so little appetite they forget to eat bread for days.
There is nothing in that story which suggests there is anything bad about wholesome play.

Most of us are immature in our spiritual growth.

St. Benedict instituted a time for daily recreation for his monks.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by coco » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:00 pm

Image
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Thunktank » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:08 pm

Del wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:22 am
Thunktank wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:34 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:43 pm
" A hunter in the desert saw Father Anthony enjoying himself with the brothers and he was shocked. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brothers, the elder said to him, “Put an arrow in your bow and shoot it.” So he did. The elder then said, “Shoot another,” and he did so. Then the elder said, “Shoot yet again,” and the hunter replied, “If I bend my bow so much I will break it.” Then the elder said to him, “It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brothers beyond measure they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their needs.” When he heard these words the hunter was pierced by remorse and, greatly edified by the elder, he went away. As for the brothers, they went home strengthened." - from the sayings of St. Antony the Great
Did Saint Anthony play or did he condescend to brothers who play?

It often seems that tradition raise up those as most holy, who were also most serious and seem least likely to "play" unless it was with children. My perspective of Christian faith definitely leans toward play as immature. The mature and holy subsist off of being barefoot in the snow in prayer with so little appetite they forget to eat bread for days.
There is nothing in that story which suggests there is anything bad about wholesome play.

Most of us are immature in our spiritual growth.

St. Benedict instituted a time for daily recreation for his monks.
I have a hunch that I'm plagued by a very faulty perception about some things.

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Del » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:32 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:08 pm
Del wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:22 am
Thunktank wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:34 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:43 pm
" A hunter in the desert saw Father Anthony enjoying himself with the brothers and he was shocked. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brothers, the elder said to him, “Put an arrow in your bow and shoot it.” So he did. The elder then said, “Shoot another,” and he did so. Then the elder said, “Shoot yet again,” and the hunter replied, “If I bend my bow so much I will break it.” Then the elder said to him, “It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brothers beyond measure they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their needs.” When he heard these words the hunter was pierced by remorse and, greatly edified by the elder, he went away. As for the brothers, they went home strengthened." - from the sayings of St. Antony the Great
Did Saint Anthony play or did he condescend to brothers who play?

It often seems that tradition raise up those as most holy, who were also most serious and seem least likely to "play" unless it was with children. My perspective of Christian faith definitely leans toward play as immature. The mature and holy subsist off of being barefoot in the snow in prayer with so little appetite they forget to eat bread for days.
There is nothing in that story which suggests there is anything bad about wholesome play.

Most of us are immature in our spiritual growth.

St. Benedict instituted a time for daily recreation for his monks.
I have a hunch that I'm plagued by a very faulty perception about some things.
A loving father gets down on the floor and plays with his children. He may not need Candyland or Shoots & Ladders, but he knows this is what his children need.

St. Anthony may have been able to survive on little more than prayer and the Eucharist. And his followers aspired to receive that grace. But for now, let's laugh and roll some dice around.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by hugodrax » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:36 pm

I wouldn't go that far. I just think that these images don't put rears in pews as much as the fear of eternal damnation. Image
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by FredS » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

. . .talk about a divine waste of time. . .
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Re: A Divine Waste of Time - Theology of Play

Post by Thunktank » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:12 pm

Del wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:32 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:08 pm
Del wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:22 am
Thunktank wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:34 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:43 pm
" A hunter in the desert saw Father Anthony enjoying himself with the brothers and he was shocked. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brothers, the elder said to him, “Put an arrow in your bow and shoot it.” So he did. The elder then said, “Shoot another,” and he did so. Then the elder said, “Shoot yet again,” and the hunter replied, “If I bend my bow so much I will break it.” Then the elder said to him, “It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brothers beyond measure they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their needs.” When he heard these words the hunter was pierced by remorse and, greatly edified by the elder, he went away. As for the brothers, they went home strengthened." - from the sayings of St. Antony the Great
Did Saint Anthony play or did he condescend to brothers who play?

It often seems that tradition raise up those as most holy, who were also most serious and seem least likely to "play" unless it was with children. My perspective of Christian faith definitely leans toward play as immature. The mature and holy subsist off of being barefoot in the snow in prayer with so little appetite they forget to eat bread for days.
There is nothing in that story which suggests there is anything bad about wholesome play.

Most of us are immature in our spiritual growth.

St. Benedict instituted a time for daily recreation for his monks.
I have a hunch that I'm plagued by a very faulty perception about some things.
A loving father gets down on the floor and plays with his children. He may not need Candyland or Shoots & Ladders, but he knows this is what his children need.

St. Anthony may have been able to survive on little more than prayer and the Eucharist. And his followers aspired to receive that grace. But for now, let's laugh and roll some dice around.
So then my perception was right? St. Benedict and St. Anthony condescended to play but didn't have a good time themselves. Those guys aren't normal. I don't want to play Candyland, I just want liquor with my candy once in a while. There are monks of all stripes and religions that just seem to exist in another part of the mind than anyone else.

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