Where are my sugar crystals?

Open forum for all subject for smokers in general
User avatar
Spyderweb
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 2481
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Sanford FL

Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by Spyderweb » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:32 pm

I have purchased a few well aged tins, and really did like the flavor and color of the tobacco inside, even though it was the tin I was buying, and not the tobacco :wink:

But those tins were aromatics mostly, generally containing a lot of burley or cavendish. So, I was not expecting a lot, and certainly wasn't expecting the highly sought after sugar crystals (or crystals of something shiny).

This time though I purchased a tin of all Virginia tobacco, the holy grail of aged tobacco. With 11 years of age on it. I opened the tin, and it was still obviously perfectly sealed. It smelled good, and looked good as well. But the expected crystals were no where to be found. I lit it up, and it was good, but not really awe inspiring.

So, are these sugar crystals a rarity, even with a lot of age, and with Virginia tobacco? I was pretty much thinking it was a given, but apparently not.

User avatar
Steverino
Gentleman of the Briar and Tiny Tim Wannabe
Gentleman of the Briar and Tiny Tim Wannabe
Posts: 7957
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Lexington, NC, near the Walmart
Contact:

Post by Steverino » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:42 pm

It might help to know what blend you are working with. I'm sure there are others that have opened a lot more vintage tins that I have but I have opened a few (maybe a dozen) and I have yet to see any crystalline structure on the leaf. Actually, I have seen some of this on few "fresh" blends but not on any of the vintage blends I've opened. I have a few put back that I haven't opened yet so I may yet get to see this phenomenon in a vintage tin.
Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Isaiah 55:6,7 ESV

User avatar
Rusty
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Posts: 24969
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Beelzebub's Rare Tobacco Emporium

Post by Rusty » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:05 pm

11 years may still be a toddler for Virginias? I think they have no horizon after which decline occurs. But it may not take long age anyway.

Also it may not be crystals of sugar. If it is a result of fermenting then it's possibly an acetate crystal ie a derivative downstream from acetic acid which occurs as a product of fermentation. As one might expect McClelland's already have a vinegar nose so they do develop these crystals with some age. They particularly suggested an acetate crystal. I've noticed it on a number of them and I remember it on some of the British flakes too (Rattray's Marlin Flake), but never on my old Erinmore nor St. Bruno flake. Old St. Bruno flake became more like silky soft leather with a very flat matte finish - very fruity but no crystals. Interestingly the crystals that I have encountered weren't dissolved by water. I tried that and the crystals remained. I even licked them (some of us taste everything). Nothing happened. I should have tried alcohol.

If that is so (acetate crystal) then tobaccos that are stabilized to prevent fermentation completely may not develop any crystals.

This is mostly speculation. I've never read of anybody analyzing the crystals. But listen, you can sprinkle some powdered sugar on them and pretend it's cocaine. 8)
Last edited by Rusty on Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You're out of the woods
You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light

User avatar
Spyderweb
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 2481
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Sanford FL

Post by Spyderweb » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:18 pm

Steverino wrote:It might help to know what blend you are working with.
It's a 2002 Christmas Cheer. And I've heard a lot of comments saying they had crystals on Christmas Cheer. So I don't think it uncommon, maybe not just as common as I had thought.

User avatar
JohnnyMcPiperson
I want one of those
I want one of those
Posts: 7025
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: In the woods, VA

Post by JohnnyMcPiperson » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:13 pm

I have a tin of 2002 Christmas Cheer, but have not opened it yet...

On the other hand, I've had FVF, Erinmore Flake, and Louisiana Flake that all had crystals after just a few years... so I dunno what to tell ya... could have something to do with storage conditions and just the tobacco in that particular tin...
"Pleasures are shafts of the glory as it strikes our sensibility... Make every pleasure into a channel of adoration." ~C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Spyderweb
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 2481
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Sanford FL

Post by Spyderweb » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:11 pm

Don't know what this means, but the can was pressurized and had expanded. I had heard of this in aged tins, but don't know if it's a good or bad thing.

User avatar
philofumo
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
Posts: 978
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: NW Georgia, USA

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by philofumo » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:35 pm

Esoterica Blackpool is really good for developing the cosmic stardust,
this is after only one year jarred:

Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35648
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by Del » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:29 pm

Spyderweb wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:32 pm
But those tins were aromatics mostly, generally containing a lot of burley or cavendish.
And propylene glycol.

Aromatics have propylene glycol to carry the flavoring agents, and to maintain the moisture -- characteristic of "freshness," -- and to inhibit mold.

And.... PG prevents the fermentation that results in "bloom" and the other benefits of aging.

Virginias have a lot of natural sugars, so crystals happen.

Burley does not have the natural surgars. Some old cavendishes had added sugar, to provide for the the natural deficiency.

But modern propylene glycol is cheaper than sugar. it's a math thing.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 35648
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re:

Post by Del » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:31 pm

Spyderweb wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:11 pm
Don't know what this means, but the can was pressurized and had expanded. I had heard of this in aged tins, but don't know if it's a good or bad thing.
Fermentation happens.

Good thing.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
DepartedLight
That boy's got a Thorazine deficiency.
Posts: 25416
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Tobacco Fairy HQ, North Carolina

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by DepartedLight » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:54 am

ebay has baccky crystals for sale. I've not tried them, however.
DL Jake

All my posts should be viewed from a position of, this guy is nuts.

I missed throwing up in 2016. » tuttle

User avatar
philofumo
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
Posts: 978
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: NW Georgia, USA

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by philofumo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:03 am

DepartedLight wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:54 am
ebay has baccky crystals for sale. I've not tried them, however.
Don't trust ebay!

Those baccky crystals are likely bath salts!

Image

User avatar
Jester
Elder
Elder
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:10 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by Jester » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:15 am

Image
I smoke a cigar because the body is a temple and the temple needs incense. -Michael Knowles

Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

When chaos manifests itself, what makes you think that anyone tame will be good for anything? -Jordan B. Peterson

User avatar
sweetandsour
Minister of Pipe Breaking
Minister of Pipe Breaking
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Bayou Self
Contact:

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by sweetandsour » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:56 am

Del wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:29 pm
Spyderweb wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:32 pm
But those tins were aromatics mostly, generally containing a lot of burley or cavendish.
And propylene glycol.

Aromatics have propylene glycol to carry the flavoring agents, and to maintain the moisture -- characteristic of "freshness," -- and to inhibit mold.

And.... PG prevents the fermentation that results in "bloom" and the other benefits of aging.

Virginias have a lot of natural sugars, so crystals happen.

Burley does not have the natural surgars. Some old cavendishes had added sugar, to provide for the the natural deficiency.

But modern propylene glycol is cheaper than sugar. it's a math thing.
I always enjoy seeing Del's chemistry roots, particularly evident by use of "sugars", plural.
As thus we sat in darkness
Each one busy with his prayers,
"We are lost!" the captain shouted,
As he staggered down the stairs.

O love the Lord, all ye His saints: for the Lord preserveth the faithful. Psalm 31:23

User avatar
Goose55
Del's Love Child
Del's Love Child
Posts: 4745
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:44 pm
Location: Southern Arizona, U.S.A.

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by Goose55 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:38 am

philofumo wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:35 pm
Esoterica Blackpool is really good for developing the cosmic stardust,
this is after only one year jarred:

Image
ImageImageImageImageImage
That is amazing. Like a science experiment.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

User avatar
philofumo
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
Posts: 978
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: NW Georgia, USA

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by philofumo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:13 am

Goose55 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:38 am
That is amazing. Like a science experiment.
Indeed it is.

The best photographs I've seen of bloom were taken by a gent named cgrd who used a pocket microscope to capture some stunning crystallization on Stonehaven.

Original thread here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PipeTobacco/co ... stigation/

ImageImage
ImageImage

Here's an interesting thread which speculates on what exactly it is --- I think that it's still up for debate...

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/r ... acco-bloom

:?:

User avatar
Jester
Elder
Elder
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:10 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by Jester » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:24 am

philofumo wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:13 am
Goose55 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:38 am
That is amazing. Like a science experiment.
Indeed it is.

The best photographs I've seen of bloom were taken by a gent named cgrd who used a pocket microscope to capture some stunning crystallization on Stonehaven.

Original thread here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PipeTobacco/co ... stigation/

ImageImage
ImageImage

Here's an interesting thread which speculates on what exactly it is --- I think that it's still up for debate...

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/r ... acco-bloom

:?:
Back in my marijuana days we called them trichomes.
Image
Trichomes from the Greek τρίχωμα (trikhōma) meaning "hair", are fine outgrowths or appendages on plants, algae, lichens, and certain protists. They are of diverse structure and function. Examples are hairs, glandular hairs, scales, and papillae. A covering of any kind of hair on a plant is an indumentum, and the surface bearing them is said to be pubescent.
I smoke a cigar because the body is a temple and the temple needs incense. -Michael Knowles

Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

When chaos manifests itself, what makes you think that anyone tame will be good for anything? -Jordan B. Peterson

User avatar
philofumo
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
BROTHERSMOKE, Bizarrely Packaged Wealth of Information
Posts: 978
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: NW Georgia, USA

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by philofumo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:32 am

Jester wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:24 am

Back in my marijuana days we called them trichomes.
Image
Trichomes from the Greek τρίχωμα (trikhōma) meaning "hair", are fine outgrowths or appendages on plants, algae, lichens, and certain protists. They are of diverse structure and function. Examples are hairs, glandular hairs, scales, and papillae. A covering of any kind of hair on a plant is an indumentum, and the surface bearing them is said to be pubescent.
Interesting about the sticky buds.

If my tobacco was sticky though,
I'd trip out!
:smoke:

User avatar
sweetandsour
Minister of Pipe Breaking
Minister of Pipe Breaking
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Bayou Self
Contact:

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by sweetandsour » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:51 pm

philofumo wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:32 am
Jester wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:24 am

Back in my marijuana days we called them trichomes.
Image
Trichomes from the Greek τρίχωμα (trikhōma) meaning "hair", are fine outgrowths or appendages on plants, algae, lichens, and certain protists. They are of diverse structure and function. Examples are hairs, glandular hairs, scales, and papillae. A covering of any kind of hair on a plant is an indumentum, and the surface bearing them is said to be pubescent.
Interesting about the sticky buds.

If my tobacco was sticky though,
I'd trip out!
:smoke:
What if it was pubescent? I think I'd have to think about that.
As thus we sat in darkness
Each one busy with his prayers,
"We are lost!" the captain shouted,
As he staggered down the stairs.

O love the Lord, all ye His saints: for the Lord preserveth the faithful. Psalm 31:23

User avatar
JohnnyMcPiperson
I want one of those
I want one of those
Posts: 7025
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: In the woods, VA

Re: Where are my sugar crystals?

Post by JohnnyMcPiperson » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:38 pm

As long as it isn't nubile...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"Pleasures are shafts of the glory as it strikes our sensibility... Make every pleasure into a channel of adoration." ~C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Thoth
Never had a corndog taco shake
Never had a corndog taco shake
Posts: 12116
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Jersey City, World's Greatest City
Contact:

Re:

Post by Thoth » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:13 pm

Rusty wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:05 pm
11 years may still be a toddler for Virginias? I think they have no horizon after which decline occurs. But it may not take long age anyway.


Decline can happen.Smoked some 30 year old virginas (it was Dunhill can remember the exact blend at the moment) with Kaydens and ChildofGod (who was generous enough to bring and open the tin with us). To say we were underwhelmed would be an understatement, definitely past its prime. Maybe that particular lot was off or something unique to that blend but it was definitely past its prime.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

Post Reply