ATF Homepage...

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JMG
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ATF Homepage...

Post by JMG » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:20 pm

I had to look up something on the ATF website today. Take a look at the photo they use on the homepage for the main link to the tobacco page...not a cigarette, you know that represents the vast majority of tobacco in this country if not the world. Nope. Our lowly pipe stands as the representative.

Image
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by FredS » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm

You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by Bloodhound » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:37 pm

Crazy subtle use of photo to spread an idea...Gun, explosive, arson and a pipe and a drink - EVIL
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by coco » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:43 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm
You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
Okay
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by JMG » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:02 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm
You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
Yep.
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by UncleBob » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:04 pm

Dagnab hipsters! They ruin everything.
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by FredS » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:11 pm

JMG wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:02 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm
You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
Yep.
'Cause you'd rather portray alcohol and tobacco use as a pastime of rednecks?

Hell, the image they use makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by JimVH » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:01 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:11 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:02 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm
You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
Yep.
'Cause you'd rather portray alcohol and tobacco use as a pastime of rednecks?

Hell, the image they use makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
Everything I see makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
Image

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by FredS » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:05 pm

JimVH wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:01 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:11 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:02 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm
You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
Yep.
'Cause you'd rather portray alcohol and tobacco use as a pastime of rednecks?

Hell, the image they use makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
Everything I see makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
I'm starting to realize that's the default setting for geezers. It may not help, but it sure as hell won't hurt so lets give it a shot.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by hugodrax » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:42 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:05 pm
JimVH wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:01 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:11 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:02 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm
You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
Yep.
'Cause you'd rather portray alcohol and tobacco use as a pastime of rednecks?

Hell, the image they use makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
Everything I see makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
I'm starting to realize that's the default setting for geezers. It may not help, but it sure as hell won't hurt so lets give it a shot.
You need to be a geezer to want to bathe in Scotch?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by JMG » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:47 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:42 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:05 pm
JimVH wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:01 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:11 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:02 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:33 pm
You'd prefer a Winston and Natty Light?
Yep.
'Cause you'd rather portray alcohol and tobacco use as a pastime of rednecks?

Hell, the image they use makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
Everything I see makes me want to smoke a pipe and drink scotch.
I'm starting to realize that's the default setting for geezers. It may not help, but it sure as hell won't hurt so lets give it a shot.
You need to be a geezer to want to bathe in Scotch?
For real? If someone ever tries to murder me, I hope it's by trying to drown me in a tub of Lagavulin and I have to drink my way out to survive.
"No reserves, no retreats, no regrets."
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by StoicDetective » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:43 pm

The ATF is alcohol in name and legacy only.
They barely ever touch/investigate alcohol, ... it is all a leftover from the years of prohibition.
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by DepartedLight » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:32 pm

The US gov’t uses propeganda and phy-ops to forward their agenda to any that will listen knowing or otherwise?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo way.
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by FredS » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:53 am

Bloodhound wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:37 pm
Crazy subtle use of photo to spread an idea...Gun, explosive, arson and a pipe and a drink - EVIL
DepartedLight wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:32 pm
The US gov’t uses propeganda and phy-ops to forward their agenda to any that will listen knowing or otherwise?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo way.
I contend that the DARE program is the largest reprogramming program the US government has ever undertaken. And I'm not a wingnut that see's conspiracy behind ever rock.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by Eruannu » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:02 pm


FredS wrote: I contend that the DARE program is the largest reprogramming program the US government has ever undertaken. And I'm not a wingnut that see's conspiracy behind ever rock.
Depending largely on the officer facilitating it of course. I never remember it being anymore than a discussion of gangs and illegal drugs. We did discuss drinking too. But it was more of an encouragement to color inside the lines. Not to discuss how many guns our parents owned or any of that business. The dare program where I live now is taught by the county sheriff who is very professional but is also a good ol boy including most of what that entails.

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by FredS » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:41 pm

Eruannu wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:02 pm
FredS wrote: I contend that the DARE program is the largest reprogramming program the US government has ever undertaken. And I'm not a wingnut that see's conspiracy behind ever rock.
Depending largely on the officer facilitating it of course. I never remember it being anymore than a discussion of gangs and illegal drugs. We did discuss drinking too. But it was more of an encouragement to color inside the lines. Not to discuss how many guns our parents owned or any of that business. The dare program where I live now is taught by the county sheriff who is very professional but is also a good ol boy including most of what that entails.

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They convinced my youngest daughter (now 21) that I was going to drop dead at any minute because I dipped snuff. Scared her to tears. Tobacco use is now on their list of "dangerous behaviors".
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by venator260 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:41 pm

Eruannu wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:02 pm
FredS wrote: I contend that the DARE program is the largest reprogramming program the US government has ever undertaken. And I'm not a wingnut that see's conspiracy behind ever rock.
Depending largely on the officer facilitating it of course. I never remember it being anymore than a discussion of gangs and illegal drugs. We did discuss drinking too. But it was more of an encouragement to color inside the lines. Not to discuss how many guns our parents owned or any of that business. The dare program where I live now is taught by the county sheriff who is very professional but is also a good ol boy including most of what that entails.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

Bit o thread necromancy here, but the DARE program has been shown to slightly increase the behaviors it targets. I guess once kids figure out they're not a hopeless addict who's street homeless after their first puff of a joint, the other stuff they learned in the program gets similarly tossed from their mind.

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by JMG » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:08 pm

venator260 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:41 pm
Eruannu wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:02 pm
FredS wrote: I contend that the DARE program is the largest reprogramming program the US government has ever undertaken. And I'm not a wingnut that see's conspiracy behind ever rock.
Depending largely on the officer facilitating it of course. I never remember it being anymore than a discussion of gangs and illegal drugs. We did discuss drinking too. But it was more of an encouragement to color inside the lines. Not to discuss how many guns our parents owned or any of that business. The dare program where I live now is taught by the county sheriff who is very professional but is also a good ol boy including most of what that entails.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

Bit o thread necromancy here, but the DARE program has been shown to slightly increase the behaviors it targets. I guess once kids figure out they're not a hopeless addict who's street homeless after their first puff of a joint, the other stuff they learned in the program gets similarly tossed from their mind.
More recently it’s been R.A.T. “Reject All Tobacco”
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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by Thunktank » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:27 pm

venator260 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:41 pm
Eruannu wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:02 pm
FredS wrote: I contend that the DARE program is the largest reprogramming program the US government has ever undertaken. And I'm not a wingnut that see's conspiracy behind ever rock.
Depending largely on the officer facilitating it of course. I never remember it being anymore than a discussion of gangs and illegal drugs. We did discuss drinking too. But it was more of an encouragement to color inside the lines. Not to discuss how many guns our parents owned or any of that business. The dare program where I live now is taught by the county sheriff who is very professional but is also a good ol boy including most of what that entails.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

Bit o thread necromancy here, but the DARE program has been shown to slightly increase the behaviors it targets. I guess once kids figure out they're not a hopeless addict who's street homeless after their first puff of a joint, the other stuff they learned in the program gets similarly tossed from their mind.
Interesting. I would love to see the studies that support this. Given what I’ve seen, I don’t doubt it. Part of the reason I’m moving out of state is because of the gross increase of addicted homeless (most coming from out of the area) that is plaguing my city in the last few years. It’s negatively changing the very character of my city and the safety. I’m leaving before my home value falls from it. We have rehab centers everywhere that don’t work and DARE didn’t seem to work either. All the effort the FDA and ATF put toward pipe tobacco makes no sense to me. People abuse things because they make series of poor choices that culminate into deadly activity. Chronic bad choices come from a seriously deficient lack of knowlege and understood better choices. Pipe smoking isn’t a major contributor to the death beds. We have evidence of that. A complete lack of sophistication coming from the powers that be when they try to teach the public things that should have been learned by more effective means. Simplistic programs like DARE just might make things worse, especially when those teaching it suggest broadly, things that aren’t true. It will discredit everything they teach to people who also don’t have enough sophistication to think through things more specifically. It’s lazy.
Image

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Re: ATF Homepage...

Post by venator260 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 pm

Here's one:

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/f ... .94.6.1027

And here's a longish article that references several:

https://priceonomics.com/dare-the-anti- ... -actually/

When one Googles DARE effectivness, one finds pages from the DARE organization supporting DARE. All of the other results tell how useless the program is.

I observed this effect in my own life. DARE and health classes scared me for awhile, but when I observed peers engage in the behaviors with supposedly rather immediate and disastrous consequences and not experience disastrous and immediate consequences, I began to believe that all I had been told was merely a scare tactic aimed at shaping my behavior. Turns out, that's pretty much what it was.

I can't seemed to find the study that advocated a harm reduction type approach. Basically, as in all things, honesty about things like drugs is the best idea. Rather than using an "all drugs are bad" approach, it's better to be honest about effects and have kids understand that there's a continuum of harm to themselves and others, depending upon the choices that they make.

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