Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

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Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Goose55 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:22 pm

I sometimes fail to remember to sip a pipe slowly, & will smoke my pipes too hot. It has been brought to my attention that Corsican and Sardinian briar is known for it's hardness & fine grain. Does this mean that Corsican and Sardinian briar is less prone to burnouts?

I imagine such briar may be quite rare nowadays, and expensive.

I have a Bartlett & Bickley/ Piccadilly bent panel some of you may remember I refurbed last summer. A ton of cake was removed from it and I posted pictures of that. Found it for only $16 and that pipe seems to have very hard briar. No mater how hot I smoke it, its indestructible.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Cleon » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:55 pm

My money would be on 100+ year old oil cured Algerian briar.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by SlowToke » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:26 pm

I've not seen evidence that supports any particular geographically located briar is better or worse than any others. Consider that some of the more reputable briar mills import briar burls from several different locations around the Mediterranean. One could certainly argue that how they cut and process the briar could have some influence on the smoking qualities and the density of the briar, however. Having used briar from several of the more notable and reputable mills, I can say that they do, to some degree, exhibit different qualities. Of course, you'll hear opinions from pipe smokers about briar from such and such is the best or most dense or whatever but that's mostly based on ignorance and rumors rather than any objective data.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Rusty » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:55 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:22 pm
I sometimes fail to remember to sip a pipe slowly, & will smoke my pipes too hot. It has been brought to my attention that Corsican and Sardinian briar is known for it's hardness & fine grain. Does this mean that Corsican and Sardinian briar is less prone to burnouts?
I suspect that the variation in response to heat is pretty much the same independent of the burl source. The density of the material may, and probably does, vary from piece to piece. If burnout was more common we'd hear a lot more about it. It's comparatively rare I think.

If you reduce the chamber cake back to wood you will see that it's scorched in pretty much any pipe. So under what circumstances does it actually burn and what does a burnout look like?

I actually bought a burnout in progress years ago just to find out more. The burnout seems to be quite localized to a small area on the wall of the chamber (it's less than an inch across) and it has blackened the exterior bowl wall now. It doesn't seem to grow to consume the whole bowl or even a whole side of the bowl. Which is interesting. It is perforating the wall ... slowly (because it's an experiment in progress). All the other burnouts that I have seen were very similar. I've probed the wall on mine and I can't find an obvious flaw, fissure, or cavity either. But that location burns readily. No other location seems to burn so easily. I light it up and try this every now and then and it still burns. I don't have to smoke it hot either. It lights up readily and I can taste it. I've talked to people who have experienced burnout and most of them say they did nothing unusual and it is the pipe that is the problem.

I think there is some kind of flaw because it is so localized but I still don't know what it is.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by sweetandsour » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:06 pm

I have two pipes with burn outs, and both are estate k-woodies. One I retired, and one I still smoke on very rare occasion.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by JimVH » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:50 pm

I have never burned-out a pipe, not even the one I made out of firewood.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by SlowToke » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:41 am

Rusty wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:55 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:22 pm
I sometimes fail to remember to sip a pipe slowly, & will smoke my pipes too hot. It has been brought to my attention that Corsican and Sardinian briar is known for it's hardness & fine grain. Does this mean that Corsican and Sardinian briar is less prone to burnouts?
I suspect that the variation in response to heat is pretty much the same independent of the burl source. The density of the material may, and probably does, vary from piece to piece. If burnout was more common we'd hear a lot more about it. It's comparatively rare I think.

If you reduce the chamber cake back to wood you will see that it's scorched in pretty much any pipe. So under what circumstances does it actually burn and what does a burnout look like?

I actually bought a burnout in progress years ago just to find out more. The burnout seems to be quite localized to a small area on the wall of the chamber (it's less than an inch across) and it has blackened the exterior bowl wall now. It doesn't seem to grow to consume the whole bowl or even a whole side of the bowl. Which is interesting. It is perforating the wall ... slowly (because it's an experiment in progress). All the other burnouts that I have seen were very similar. I've probed the wall on mine and I can't find an obvious flaw, fissure, or cavity either. But that location burns readily. No other location seems to burn so easily. I light it up and try this every now and then and it still burns. I don't have to smoke it hot either. It lights up readily and I can taste it. I've talked to people who have experienced burnout and most of them say they did nothing unusual and it is the pipe that is the problem.

I think there is some kind of flaw because it is so localized but I still don't know what it is.
I think this is an accurate assessment of most burnouts. I believe there are, on rare occasion, spots in briar that are softer but imperceptible to the naked eye that are susceptible to burning. As Rusty states, it's typically one spot on a pipe that burns out. It's a natural "flaw" in the briar and no briar from any location or mill is immune.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by DepartedLight » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:10 pm

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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by FredS » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:44 am

I s'pect the micro-location of the briar bush has more (way more) impact on the briar root and the eventual pipe than does the country it happens to grow in. North or south facing slope, shade from larger trees nearby, whether that shade is from a deciduous or coniferous tree, particularly wet or dry seasons when the plant was young. There are dozens of factors that effect how plants grow. I suppose a region that tends to have more positive conditions than another would produce 'better' briar, but all the countries in the region probably have similar conditions.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Corsican and Sardinian Briar Boards spread the information that their island grown briar is better than others, similar to the way the California Raisin Board and Idaho Potato Boards run ads that say their products are the best. I can't tell (and don't care) where my raisins or fried taters come from.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Goose55 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:49 am

The briar bush that grows slow, in poor soil, with less rain would seem to me to have the most dense and hard wood. I have often wondered about what is termed "sea rock" briar. I imagine in my minds eye, the bush growing among rocky soil, on a slope, above a Mediterranean shoreline.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by durangopipe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:03 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:49 am
The briar bush that grows slow, in poor soil, with less rain would seem to me to have the most dense and hard wood. I have often wondered about what is termed "sea rock" briar. I imagine in my minds eye, the bush growing among rocky soil, on a slope, above a Mediterranean shoreline.
It's a style of rustication, Goose.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Cleon » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:30 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:03 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:49 am
The briar bush that grows slow, in poor soil, with less rain would seem to me to have the most dense and hard wood. I have often wondered about what is termed "sea rock" briar. I imagine in my minds eye, the bush growing among rocky soil, on a slope, above a Mediterranean shoreline.
It's a style of rustication, Goose.
Will you look at that!
Image
Image
BTW, this looks dangerous.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Bloodhound » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:16 pm

I am in the same club as Jim, I have never burned one out. I have smoked with a few here and they can attest to me being a puffer...yup I smoke em hot. I am one of those "Busy" smokers...sometimes I sip slowly but most of my smokes are steady puffing but no burned out pipes yet. I bought a Parker once that had a dark spot on the exterior when I bought it. I smoked it for about a year and the spot seemed like it darkened, but it didn't grow in size and I sold it on e-bay as a burned spot...but not burned out and the buyer listed A+++ feedback for me.

I have 3 or 4 that have seen a lot of smokes but they seem solid and still smoke well
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by FredS » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:44 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:22 pm
I have a Bartlett & Bickley/ Piccadilly . . . that pipe seems to have very hard briar. No mater how hot I smoke it, its indestructible.
How, why, or even frequency/commonality of burnouts is a whole different discussion than whether briar from different regions are more or less prone to burnout.

Like others have said, I've never burned out a pipe. I think it's not really all that frequent an occurrence. I know all the artisans and perhaps even the factories guarantee against burnout, but that warranty is only a tiny bit more risky than one for a failure due to a zombie apocalypse.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by UncleBob » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 pm

I have seen pipes burnout at JFH and there was a customer we called "molten" as he would often burnout a pipe.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by FredS » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:59 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 pm
I have seen pipes burnout at JFH and there was a customer we called "molten" as he would often burnout a pipe.
OK, this could go somewhere. . .

Of the thousands of pipes you've handled, how many have you seen burned out?

What was it about how or what "Molten" smoked that made him particularly destructive?

Did "Molten" care or did he simply see pipes as consumables?

Did JFH replace any/all pies he returned?
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by UncleBob » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:07 pm

FredS wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:59 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 pm
I have seen pipes burnout at JFH and there was a customer we called "molten" as he would often burnout a pipe.
OK, this could go somewhere. . .

Of the thousands of pipes you've handled, how many have you seen burned out?

What was it about how or what "Molten" smoked that made him particularly destructive?

Did "Molten" care or did he simply see pipes as consumables?

Did JFH replace any/all pies he returned?
In 15 years at the shop, I have seen less than 10 pipes burnout, apart from "molten" Mounts' work. He puffed harder and faster than anyone I have ever seen! He would inhale (see what I did there?) a bowlful in less than five minutes. It was both amazing and terrifying to watch. We started to replace his burned-out pipes until he came back with the third pipe in a row with a burn out. Then we set him down and watched him smoke a pipe in the shop. That did it--no more replacements for him.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Bloodhound » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:36 am

UncleBob wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:07 pm
FredS wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:59 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 pm
I have seen pipes burnout at JFH and there was a customer we called "molten" as he would often burnout a pipe.
OK, this could go somewhere. . .

Of the thousands of pipes you've handled, how many have you seen burned out?

What was it about how or what "Molten" smoked that made him particularly destructive?

Did "Molten" care or did he simply see pipes as consumables?

Did JFH replace any/all pies he returned?
In 15 years at the shop, I have seen less than 10 pipes burnout, apart from "molten" Mounts' work. He puffed harder and faster than anyone I have ever seen! He would inhale (see what I did there?) a bowlful in less than five minutes. It was both amazing and terrifying to watch. We started to replace his burned-out pipes until he came back with the third pipe in a row with a burn out. Then we set him down and watched him smoke a pipe in the shop. That did it--no more replacements for him.
Wow...I am a self admitted puffer, but that is crazy smoking. I normally have a bowl in a normal sized pipe last 20 to 25 min. I like to taste the tobacco and I hate tongue burn
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by Gabriel » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:34 pm

SlowToke wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:26 pm
Of course, you'll hear opinions from pipe smokers about [all sorts of things] but that's mostly based on ignorance and rumors rather than any objective data.
I'd say that about sums up most conversations about pipe smoking on social media.
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Re: Corsican and Sardinian briar. Less Prone To Burnout?

Post by UncleBob » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:43 pm

Bloodhound wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:36 am
UncleBob wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:07 pm
FredS wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:59 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 pm
I have seen pipes burnout at JFH and there was a customer we called "molten" as he would often burnout a pipe.
OK, this could go somewhere. . .

Of the thousands of pipes you've handled, how many have you seen burned out?

What was it about how or what "Molten" smoked that made him particularly destructive?

Did "Molten" care or did he simply see pipes as consumables?

Did JFH replace any/all pies he returned?
In 15 years at the shop, I have seen less than 10 pipes burnout, apart from "molten" Mounts' work. He puffed harder and faster than anyone I have ever seen! He would inhale (see what I did there?) a bowlful in less than five minutes. It was both amazing and terrifying to watch. We started to replace his burned-out pipes until he came back with the third pipe in a row with a burn out. Then we set him down and watched him smoke a pipe in the shop. That did it--no more replacements for him.
Wow...I am a self admitted puffer, but that is crazy smoking. I normally have a bowl in a normal sized pipe last 20 to 25 min. I like to taste the tobacco and I hate tongue burn
It was something like this:
Image
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

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