What the Hell Is Going On?

The part of the church where the silliest things happen. Conversations that sound like they belong in the youth room will be moved here.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:00 am

Cleon wrote:What the hell's going on with this thread? You guys just pooped all over it.
This is why we can't have nice things.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:04 am

Florida Atlantic University Fires James Tracy, Professor Who Questioned Sandy Hook Massacre
His removal followed years of controversy over Tracy's off-campus writings, including a personal blog, in which he has questioned the killings at Sandy Hook Elementary School and other mass shootings. The case has raised questions about free speech and academic freedom, and whether Tracy crossed the line from saying something unpopular to doing actual harm.

The firestorm culminated with allegations of harassment by one the parents of one of the children killed at Sandy Hook.

Last month, Lenny and Veronique Pozner, whose 6-year-old son was among 20 children killed at the school, wrote an op-ed in a Florida newspaper saying he'd sent them a certified letter demanding proof their boy ever lived. The Pozners said they complained to the police.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:14 am

UncleBob wrote:
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
tuttle wrote:
An ethnic minority? That's a weird way to look at it. I must have missed that. I can run alongside someone who says they are being portrayed (or portraying themselves) as a religious minority. I would disagree, but it would be semantics in the 'he said she said' kind of way, but I could at least follow it. I'm confused about the identifying with ethnic minorities though. I could be missing something, I'll grant.
WASP as ethnic minority.
I'm pretty sure that you mean "ethnic as a culturally identifiable group."
UncleBob wrote:Finally, "robbing" would have been a much better choice here.
I think you have found the key, right here.

When a child is robbed of his or her sexual innocence before the child is mature enough to understand adequately or give consent, we call this statutory rape. The parent who was mocked in the article understands this connection.
No, Del. When an adult has sex with a minor we call that statutory rape. These adults are trying to play a victim card--any victim card--because their argument is weak. It essentially comes down to "we don't want them to learn about sex/sexual health/cultural issues because Jesus."

BTW-- still waiting on that source.
It's more true probably to say that they played that card not because their argument is weak, but because their religious argument has no sway in public school matters. It's a bad tactic and it does have the sense of desperation about it, likely because this is coming more out of outrage than rational level-headedness. It is a losing battle because LGBTetc is now rooted into the system, and this is a frustration surfacing.
Their argument is weak. They could have a strong argument: We opt out of this class for religious reasons. That's all they need to do. Their kids won't be forced to sit through the classes, the school will send the children to some alternative class, and we are done. This is why they are playing like an ethnic minority: Victim card instead of exercising the rights they already possess.
Ok...my comments until now have only been based on a scan of the article you linked. I went ahead and read about this on another site that didn't have an obvious bias. 1) the school decided to update the sex ed class 2) the school had a town hall in order to hear what parents thought about the proposed changes. 3) statements of one group seems to be getting the headlines rather than individual parents (but it's made up of individual parents to be sure) 4) individual parents are upset or not upset and voicing their opinions in the forum as intended. 5) nothing is implemented yet.

So there isn't any rights yet to be invoked. If this passes, that's when they can use their right to opt out. They aren't trying to force change, but are commenting--actually invited to comment--on possible changes. But as of now, it was just a forum to voice opinions...which is what they are doing, even if some do it rather badly. This isn't a bunch of WASPs acting like an ethnic minority. It's opinions in an open forum on an issue that hasn't been decided yet. But knowing more about it now makes me think we're making much ado about nothing for the moment (what...here on CPS!? no way... :lol: )

So I guess let me know if it passes and the WASPs start acting like an ethnic minority about it and we can pick up where we left off.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Cleon » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:28 am

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:38 am

tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
tuttle wrote:
An ethnic minority? That's a weird way to look at it. I must have missed that. I can run alongside someone who says they are being portrayed (or portraying themselves) as a religious minority. I would disagree, but it would be semantics in the 'he said she said' kind of way, but I could at least follow it. I'm confused about the identifying with ethnic minorities though. I could be missing something, I'll grant.
WASP as ethnic minority.
I'm pretty sure that you mean "ethnic as a culturally identifiable group."
UncleBob wrote:Finally, "robbing" would have been a much better choice here.
I think you have found the key, right here.

When a child is robbed of his or her sexual innocence before the child is mature enough to understand adequately or give consent, we call this statutory rape. The parent who was mocked in the article understands this connection.
No, Del. When an adult has sex with a minor we call that statutory rape. These adults are trying to play a victim card--any victim card--because their argument is weak. It essentially comes down to "we don't want them to learn about sex/sexual health/cultural issues because Jesus."

BTW-- still waiting on that source.
It's more true probably to say that they played that card not because their argument is weak, but because their religious argument has no sway in public school matters. It's a bad tactic and it does have the sense of desperation about it, likely because this is coming more out of outrage than rational level-headedness. It is a losing battle because LGBTetc is now rooted into the system, and this is a frustration surfacing.
Their argument is weak. They could have a strong argument: We opt out of this class for religious reasons. That's all they need to do. Their kids won't be forced to sit through the classes, the school will send the children to some alternative class, and we are done. This is why they are playing like an ethnic minority: Victim card instead of exercising the rights they already possess.
Ok...my comments until now have only been based on a scan of the article you linked. I went ahead and read about this on another site that didn't have an obvious bias. 1) the school decided to update the sex ed class 2) the school had a town hall in order to hear what parents thought about the proposed changes. 3) statements of one group seems to be getting the headlines rather than individual parents (but it's made up of individual parents to be sure) 4) individual parents are upset or not upset and voicing their opinions in the forum as intended. 5) nothing is implemented yet.

So there isn't any rights yet to be invoked. If this passes, that's when they can use their right to opt out. They aren't trying to force change, but are commenting--actually invited to comment--on possible changes. But as of now, it was just a forum to voice opinions...which is what they are doing, even if some do it rather badly. This isn't a bunch of WASPs acting like an ethnic minority. It's opinions in an open forum on an issue that hasn't been decided yet. But knowing more about it now makes me think we're making much ado about nothing for the moment (what...here on CPS!? no way... :lol: )

So I guess let me know if it passes and the WASPs start acting like an ethnic minority about it and we can pick up where we left off.
Stop raping this thread with your facts!
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Del » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:58 am

UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
tuttle wrote:
An ethnic minority? That's a weird way to look at it. I must have missed that. I can run alongside someone who says they are being portrayed (or portraying themselves) as a religious minority. I would disagree, but it would be semantics in the 'he said she said' kind of way, but I could at least follow it. I'm confused about the identifying with ethnic minorities though. I could be missing something, I'll grant.
WASP as ethnic minority.
I'm pretty sure that you mean "ethnic as a culturally identifiable group."
UncleBob wrote:Finally, "robbing" would have been a much better choice here.
I think you have found the key, right here.

When a child is robbed of his or her sexual innocence before the child is mature enough to understand adequately or give consent, we call this statutory rape. The parent who was mocked in the article understands this connection.
No, Del. When an adult has sex with a minor we call that statutory rape. These adults are trying to play a victim card--any victim card--because their argument is weak. It essentially comes down to "we don't want them to learn about sex/sexual health/cultural issues because Jesus."

BTW-- still waiting on that source.
We know what statutory rape is. I am just saying that the parent's hyperbole is an extension of the concept.

I am waiting for a source, too. The original link does not bother to report what, exactly, offends the parents so much about the proposed the sex ed program. Your notion that they are offended "because Jesus" has been pulled out of thin air (possibly exuding your hindquarters).

I am familiar with the sex ed program that Planned Parenthood lobbies to teach in local public schools. A PP employee visits the school as an "expert consultant." This program encourages kindergartners to explore masturbation. It encourages middle schoolers to explore sexual intimacy. They teach that contraception is very effective and safe and good. Abstinence is okay if you want to do that, but teenager sexual activity is just as safe and good and lot more "natural." Teenage homosexuality is another form of natural exploration and expression. It's all good.

If the parents suspect that this sort of program is being taught to their children, then their hyperbolic reaction is reasonable-- whether or not they mention Jesus. (SENTENCE FRAGMENT FOR MORLEY'S ENRAGED AMUSEMENT ONLY.)
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:15 am

Del wrote:
We know what statutory rape is. I am just saying that the parent's hyperbole is an extension of the concept.

I am waiting for a source, too. The original link does not bother to report what, exactly, offends the parents so much about the proposed the sex ed program. Your notion that they are offended "because Jesus" has been pulled out of thin air (possibly exuding your hindquarters).

I am familiar with the sex ed program that Planned Parenthood lobbies to teach in local public schools. A PP employee visits the school as an "expert consultant." This program encourages kindergartners to explore masturbation. It encourages middle schoolers to explore sexual intimacy. They teach that contraception is very effective and safe and good. Abstinence is okay if you want to do that, but teenager sexual activity is just as safe and good and lot more "natural." Teenage homosexuality is another form of natural exploration and expression. It's all good.

If the parents suspect that this sort of program is being taught to their children, then their hyperbolic reaction is reasonable-- whether or not they mention Jesus. (SENTENCE FRAGMENT FOR MORLEY'S ENRAGED AMUSEMENT ONLY.)
Del, you made a specific claim from a specific foundation. Either produce your source or you are full of shite.

The "because Jesus" is my analysis of their weak argument. This is all part of the whole LGBT debate that CPS has been discussing off and on for the last few years. If you need some evidence for my analysis, then here you go:
At a December meeting, a parent complained that the only sex education that should be taught should be limited to heterosexual relationships within the context of marriage.

“I very strongly believe that sexual education for our children should only be about a loving relationship between a man and a woman within the bounds of marriage,” Margarita Hernandez said, according to Omaha.com. “Marriages never make it into the picture of sex education in the schools.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oma ... b6fb6dd505

Other sources:
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/s ... /75785.htm
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/01/woman-s ... cence.html

BTW--A good man would let this comment from a Catholic zealot pass without comment or ironic chuckle: "We know what statutory rape is." I guess I'm just alright.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Del » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:21 am

UncleBob wrote:It's more true probably to say that they played that card not because their argument is weak, but because their religious argument has no sway in public school matters. It's a bad tactic and it does have the sense of desperation about it, likely because this is coming more out of outrage than rational level-headedness. It is a losing battle because LGBTetc is now rooted into the system, and this is a frustration surfacing.
Their argument is weak. They could have a strong argument: We opt out of this class for religious reasons. That's all they need to do. Their kids won't be forced to sit through the classes, the school will send the children to some alternative class, and we are done. This is why they are playing like an ethnic minority: Victim card instead of exercising the rights they already possess.[/quote]

In Nebraska, folks still think about their community.

It isn't sufficient to simply pull one's kids out of a toxic classroom, because the rest of the kids are still taking in the toxins. Now our kids have to live in an atmosphere that has just absorbed the licentious lessons from Planned Parenthood.

If a parent wants her kids to be safe in our public schools, then she has to make sure that Planned Parenthood's message stays out of the school entirely.

The problem is that Planned Parenthood is heavily subsidized by taxpayers, so they can offer to teach "for free." This is very tempting to school administrators, who have long ago forgotten that they serve the local parents.

I know that in Omaha, the Catholic Archdiocese can provide excellent teachers to discuss bioethics with children. The Creighton Institute of Natural Procreative Technology is based there, and they do world-class, cutting edge research. But these charitable operatives are excluded from public schools, "because Jesus."
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Del » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:24 am

UncleBob wrote:Del, you made a specific claim from a specific foundation. Either produce your source or you are full of shite.
I've looked back through the thread and I can't find your question.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:27 am

Del wrote: In Nebraska, folks still think about their community.
A telephone survey of parents showed widespread support for the new curriculum, the school district said. For example, 93.1 percent said the district should teach both abstinence and prevention while just 5.3 percent said the program should teach abstinence only.

In addition, 70 percent of parents said the district should teach "sexual orientation, LGBT inclusion and gender identity," with many respondents saying these issues should be introduced by 7th grade.
Click Here for Survey Results
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:29 am

Del wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Del, you made a specific claim from a specific foundation. Either produce your source or you are full of shite.
I've looked back through the thread and I can't find your question.
That's no surprise.
UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote: Guttmacher Institute reports that there is usually a 50% increase in childhood sexual activity after a Planned Parenthood sex ed program is introduced into a school. This is why the parents are concerned.
I looked up the Guttmacher Institute but I couldn't find that source. So, source?
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Del » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:55 am

UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Del, you made a specific claim from a specific foundation. Either produce your source or you are full of shite.
I've looked back through the thread and I can't find your question.
That's no surprise.
UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote: Guttmacher Institute reports that there is usually a 50% increase in childhood sexual activity after a Planned Parenthood sex ed program is introduced into a school. This is why the parents are concerned.
I looked up the Guttmacher Institute but I couldn't find that source. So, source?
You won't find it. It has been wiped.

Guttmacher is controlled by Planned Parenthood. They used to be part of PP, but nowadays they maintain a thin veil of "independence." Nobody follows Guttmacher except the abortion industry and pro-lifers.

Planned Parenthood wants to know the sexual habits of Americans, and they want to know how effective their programs are at increasing sexual activity and unwanted pregnancies. However, Planned Parenthood does not want the public to know what their real agenda is, opposed to their marketing image.

So most of what Guttmacher reports is about how great Planned Parenthood is. Teen pregnancies are going down, and Guttmacher automatically reports that this is due to the excellence of sex ed and access to contraception.

When Guttmacher releases a report, pro-lifers go through it quickly. When we find a detail that does not suit the pro-abortion narrative, it disappears. A reg'lar guy has to follow the pro-life newsblogs every day to catch it as it passes by.

So we just have to use our common sense: When an "expert" in the school tells kids that their sexual appetites are okay to indulge, that they will be safe from pregnancy and disease by using contraception, and that their parents' moral restraints are just superstitions.... Will the teens trust their parents, who desire their kids to have long lives and happy marriages? Or the "experts," who offer immediate, pleasurable release to their urges?

A small number of impassioned parents see the risk, and a liberal newsblog mocks them for it. Ha ha.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Del » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:36 pm

"Speak of the Devil..."

One of today's pro-life headlines, about the still-cozy relationship of PP and Guttmacher, and taxpayer funding that flows to both:

http://liveactionnews.org/planned-paren ... taxpayers/
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:37 pm

Del wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Del, you made a specific claim from a specific foundation. Either produce your source or you are full of shite.
I've looked back through the thread and I can't find your question.
That's no surprise.
UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote: Guttmacher Institute reports that there is usually a 50% increase in childhood sexual activity after a Planned Parenthood sex ed program is introduced into a school. This is why the parents are concerned.
I looked up the Guttmacher Institute but I couldn't find that source. So, source?
You won't find it. It has been wiped.

Guttmacher is controlled by Planned Parenthood. They used to be part of PP, but nowadays they maintain a thin veil of "independence." Nobody follows Guttmacher except the abortion industry and pro-lifers.

Planned Parenthood wants to know the sexual habits of Americans, and they want to know how effective their programs are at increasing sexual activity and unwanted pregnancies. However, Planned Parenthood does not want the public to know what their real agenda is, opposed to their marketing image.

So most of what Guttmacher reports is about how great Planned Parenthood is. Teen pregnancies are going down, and Guttmacher automatically reports that this is due to the excellence of sex ed and access to contraception.

When Guttmacher releases a report, pro-lifers go through it quickly. When we find a detail that does not suit the pro-abortion narrative, it disappears. A reg'lar guy has to follow the pro-life newsblogs every day to catch it as it passes by.

So we just have to use our common sense: When an "expert" in the school tells kids that their sexual appetites are okay to indulge, that they will be safe from pregnancy and disease by using contraception, and that their parents' moral restraints are just superstitions.... Will the teens trust their parents, who desire their kids to have long lives and happy marriages? Or the "experts," who offer immediate, pleasurable release to their urges?

A small number of impassioned parents see the risk, and a liberal newsblog mocks them for it. Ha ha.
Why did you cite it?

You are full of shite.
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Rusty » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:07 pm

Isn't this the youth room?
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You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by Del » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:28 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Del wrote:So we just have to use our common sense: When an "expert" in the school tells kids that their sexual appetites are okay to indulge, that they will be safe from pregnancy and disease by using contraception, and that their parents' moral restraints are just superstitions.... Will the teens trust their parents, who desire their kids to have long lives and happy marriages? Or the "experts," who offer immediate, pleasurable release to their urges?

A small number of impassioned parents see the risk, and a liberal newsblog mocks them for it. Ha ha.
Why did you cite it?

You are full of shite.
It is a fact.... Guttmacher did report that. But we can only reference data that wants to be found.

Here is something that you might find interesting. Links to actual PP documents, Guttmacher data, and the pro-life rebuttal with data.
http://www.stopp.org/article.php?id=13284

A sample:
Contrary to the PPFA marketing (and lobbying) message, there is no correlation with PPFA community presence and reduced teen pregnancy. In fact, a longitudinal analysis of teen pregnancy rates in the Texas Panhandle over a 17-year period confirmed that, as Planned Parenthood left the area with its sex education and contraceptive programs, teen pregnancy rates declined dramatically, reaching an all-time low within two years of the time the last Planned Parenthood facility in the geographical area disaffiliated with PPFA.
Rusty wrote:Isn't this the youth room?
I agree. I still think the joke was the website, mocking of the parents' heartfelt concerns. Ha ha!
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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by John-Boy » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:05 pm

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by UncleBob » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:45 pm

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by John-Boy » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:06 pm

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On?

Post by philofumo » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:19 pm

At least nobody can say that this thread lacked any halpfull advice.

I give you a wisdom nugget from Popular Science, December 1962, in the instance of you Northerners ever having frozen door locks,
fear not!
Smoke hot!

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The world is our oyster.

I like clam chowder.

Saltines.

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