Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Goose55 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Thoth wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:55 pm
Wonder if he could get Dolly Parton to sing this.

https://www.facebook.com/39171898761/videos/10155713771658762/
Wow. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

But of course, Osteen likely sees his white teeth, slick hair, expensive suits, and multi-million dollar house as his fruits.
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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Sir Moose » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:52 pm

The next day John seeth Joel coming unto him, and saith, Behold the wolf in sheep's clothing, which fleeceth the world and taketh away the money of the desperate.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.

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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Goose55 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Sir Moose wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:52 pm
The next day John seeth Joel coming unto him, and saith, Behold the wolf in sheep's clothing, which fleeceth the world and taketh away the money of the desperate.
It's really a paradox. The very text Osteen harps on, about "have it more abundantly," is the very one that warns against his false gospel. The abundant life Jesus spoke of is something above and beyond material.

John 10:10

"The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by A_Morley » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am

Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by hugodrax » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:43 am

A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am
Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
But we all do this to some extent, no? Many scriptural passages are open to more than one interpretation. And many men have fought and died for their interpretations over the years.

It's for this reason that I believe tradition to be so important for me. I believe as my fathers' did as much as possible. I believe this saves me from theological error, but it does nothing to assure me of Heaven. And all the theology in the world doesn't save me from my own sinful actions, many of which you guys get to witness.

I think we should have moved past this by now. I know I joke about heretics and schismatics and all the fun words, but maybe I shouldn't. People I consider in theological error...well, at the end of the day they may be living the intent of the Word better than I do.

Theology alone does not save. And if you shall know me by my works, I've produced plenty of rotten fruit in my life and I'm really hoping that some of the less worm eaten stuff is better than I think it is.

The long and the short of it for me is I'd like to stop myself from reacting adversely to different theologies. Saint Nicholas might have punched him out, but both theologies lived on. I need to stop punching so hard. My children never stopped believing they were right just because I spanked them, they only learned to not do or think that way in my presence.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by A_Morley » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:11 am

It's my duty as a young fogey to be harshly dismissive of rednecks and I'm not going to stop. I know that their legions have all but carried the day, but don't expect for me to roll over them, Hugo. I see this as a clash of culture and of essential temperament.
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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by hugodrax » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:33 am

A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:11 am
It's my duty as a young fogey to be harshly dismissive of rednecks and I'm not going to stop. I know that their legions have all but carried the day, but don't expect for me to roll over them, Hugo. I see this as a clash of culture and of essential temperament.
Two different philosophies, I suppose. It is infra dig to wrangle with hoi polloi. In the very best case scenario, it plays merry hell with one's laundry bills.
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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Skip » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:52 am

A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am
Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
Someone complained about this post.

Complaint over-ruled. This general statement is about as accurate as you can get for the history of theology.
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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Skip » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:58 am

Skip wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:52 am
A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am
Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
Someone complained about this post.

Complaint over-ruled. This general statement is about as accurate as you can get for the history of theology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym-k5viJ7tA
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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Goose55 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:10 pm

A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am
Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
from gotquestions.org....

Question: "What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?"

Answer: Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

Second Timothy 2:15 commands us to use exegetical methods: “Present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” An honest student of the Bible will be an exegete, allowing the text to speak for itself. Eisegesis easily lends itself to error, as the would-be interpreter attempts to align the text with his own preconceived notions. Exegesis allows us to agree with the Bible; eisegesis seeks to force the Bible to agree with us.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Skip » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:14 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:10 pm
A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am
Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
from gotquestions.org....

Question: "What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?"

Answer: Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

Second Timothy 2:15 commands us to use exegetical methods: “Present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” An honest student of the Bible will be an exegete, allowing the text to speak for itself. Eisegesis easily lends itself to error, as the would-be interpreter attempts to align the text with his own preconceived notions. Exegesis allows us to agree with the Bible; eisegesis seeks to force the Bible to agree with us.
Thanks for the definitions, Goose. Please note that it's been suggested that you are prone to eisegetical tendencies, so your post is wondrously ironic.
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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Goose55 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:57 pm

Skip wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:14 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:10 pm
A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am
Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
from gotquestions.org....

Question: "What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?"

Answer: Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

Second Timothy 2:15 commands us to use exegetical methods: “Present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” An honest student of the Bible will be an exegete, allowing the text to speak for itself. Eisegesis easily lends itself to error, as the would-be interpreter attempts to align the text with his own preconceived notions. Exegesis allows us to agree with the Bible; eisegesis seeks to force the Bible to agree with us.
Thanks for the definitions, Goose. Please note that it's been suggested that you are prone to eisegetical tendencies, so your post is wondrously ironic.
And sometimes I can be a total a-s. I admit and confess.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Joel Osteen & John the Baptist; A Conversation

Post by Skip » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:03 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:57 pm
Skip wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:14 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:10 pm
A_Morley wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:51 am
Imagine, scripture explicitly saying one thing only to have a self-important ignoramus alter and twist it to fit their own heretical interpretations.
from gotquestions.org....

Question: "What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?"

Answer: Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

Second Timothy 2:15 commands us to use exegetical methods: “Present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” An honest student of the Bible will be an exegete, allowing the text to speak for itself. Eisegesis easily lends itself to error, as the would-be interpreter attempts to align the text with his own preconceived notions. Exegesis allows us to agree with the Bible; eisegesis seeks to force the Bible to agree with us.
Thanks for the definitions, Goose. Please note that it's been suggested that you are prone to eisegetical tendencies, so your post is wondrously ironic.
And sometimes I can be a total a-s. I admit and confess.
But in this place, you must know that there are those whose opinions differ from yours, and they hold those opinions no less firmly as truths than do you yourself. Some challenge others quietly and meekly, and others with style and even bombast. Here, we meet each other as we are.

(And some of us are a-holes).
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