Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by mont974x4 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:44 pm

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The times when Christ seems to be absent are often the times when he's hanging on the cross right next to yours.
Thank you, Hov, for not mentioning the single set of footprints in the sand.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Goose55 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:37 pm

Ether wrote:
Fainn wrote:
Goose55 wrote:
Fainn wrote:I really want to hear your thoughts on this.
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Also what exactly is the unpardonable sin?
A Christian is sealed with the Holy Spirit of God, and our Lord said He would never leave us or forsake us.

I think the unpardonable sin is callously, and relentlessly calling the presence and influence of God, of the devil.

God initiated and continues to be the One who brings peace from and with God.

Lastly, I don't think you have committed the unpardonable sin. Otherwise, you would not be here posting and asking about it.
So you think its like a movement of the Holy Spirit, like at church, and saying its from G-d's enemy?
Most likely it isn't a spiritual matter at all. Human nature has its own strange ways, and blasphemic thoughts often occur as easy as this:

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I think you are just trying to take faith seriously, which is good, but there is not any unpardonable thought on earth.

Unpardonable is, if you forever don't want to be pardoned.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Fainn » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:29 am

Goose55 wrote:
Ether wrote:
Fainn wrote:
Goose55 wrote:
Fainn wrote:I really want to hear your thoughts on this.
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Also what exactly is the unpardonable sin?
A Christian is sealed with the Holy Spirit of God, and our Lord said He would never leave us or forsake us.

I think the unpardonable sin is callously, and relentlessly calling the presence and influence of God, of the devil.

God initiated and continues to be the One who brings peace from and with God.

Lastly, I don't think you have committed the unpardonable sin. Otherwise, you would not be here posting and asking about it.
So you think its like a movement of the Holy Spirit, like at church, and saying its from G-d's enemy?
Most likely it isn't a spiritual matter at all. Human nature has its own strange ways, and blasphemic thoughts often occur as easy as this:

Image

I think you are just trying to take faith seriously, which is good, but there is not any unpardonable thought on earth.

Unpardonable is, if you forever don't want to be pardoned.
"When a man is getting better he understands more and more clearly the evil that is still left in him. When a man is getting worse, he understands his own badness less and less." ~ C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Thanks Ether. Goose, are you saying that it may the result of sin or unsurrendered area of evil that I'm becoming more aware of?
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Del » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:49 am

Fainn wrote:Also what exactly is the unpardonable sin?
Did you ever get a straight answer to this one?

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is not some magic thought or phrase that separates one from God forever.

The only "unpardonable sin" is to die and face judgment while clinging firmly to some sin, refusing to be sorry, and refusing God's mercy. This is called "final impenitence."

A guy can be addicted to some sin, hating it and fighting a losing battle all of his life to kicking the habit, and still enjoy hope for mercy. His purgatory may last until the End of Time, but there is always hope.

But the guy to revels in his addiction, insisting that God and His Church are dead wrong about human nature, demanding that Hell with this vice would be better than Heaven without it.... that is the unpardonable sin.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Fainn » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:30 am

Del wrote:
Fainn wrote:Also what exactly is the unpardonable sin?
Did you ever get a straight answer to this one?

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is not some magic thought or phrase that separates one from God forever.

The only "unpardonable sin" is to die and face judgment while clinging firmly to some sin, refusing to be sorry, and refusing God's mercy. This is called "final impenitence."

A guy can be addicted to some sin, hating it and fighting a losing battle all of his life to kicking the habit, and still enjoy hope for mercy. His purgatory may last until the End of Time, but there is always hope.

But the guy to revels in his addiction, insisting that God and His Church are dead wrong about human nature, demanding that Hell with this vice would be better than Heaven without it.... that is the unpardonable sin.
Like someone who is given to a reprobate mind? They'd rather sin and oppose G-d rather than accept his mercy?
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by hugodrax » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:00 am

Fainn wrote:
Del wrote:
Fainn wrote:Also what exactly is the unpardonable sin?
Did you ever get a straight answer to this one?

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is not some magic thought or phrase that separates one from God forever.

The only "unpardonable sin" is to die and face judgment while clinging firmly to some sin, refusing to be sorry, and refusing God's mercy. This is called "final impenitence."

A guy can be addicted to some sin, hating it and fighting a losing battle all of his life to kicking the habit, and still enjoy hope for mercy. His purgatory may last until the End of Time, but there is always hope.

But the guy to revels in his addiction, insisting that God and His Church are dead wrong about human nature, demanding that Hell with this vice would be better than Heaven without it.... that is the unpardonable sin.
Like someone who is given to a reprobate mind? They'd rather sin and oppose G-d rather than accept his mercy?
Yes, Fainn, it's simpler than you think. Sins must be repented and confessed. The sin of blasphemy is only unforgivable if you stick to it, thinking you were right and you continue to do it without repentance. Whatever you did, you confessed and repented. You can relax a bit.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Fainn » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:28 pm

Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by coco » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:18 pm

Fainn wrote:Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
That's just how it is sometimes.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Thunktank » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:58 pm

Fainn wrote:Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
Expectations rarely pan out. You pray to the Holy Trinity, right? I did too. I stopped because I couldn't believe anymore. But you know what? I "felt" something went missing when I did. Perhaps part of BEING a Christian can't be reduced to feelings alone. Just a thought.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Jocose » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:49 am

Feelings are unreliable. The word of God is not unreliable. Continue to read and rest in God's promises and continue trusting and seeking him no matter what you may or may not "feel"
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Fainn » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:36 am

I've been doing some research and think I have found the most suitable answer.
According to http://www.independencebaptist.org/Arti ... le_sin.htm
1. There must be an unmistakable work of the Spirit. Our text clearly indicates that a miracle had been performed which the Jews could not deny. They knew God performed this miracle, but accused Jesus of casting out devils by Beelzebub, the prince of devils.

2. There must be a knowledge that the work is of God. In I Tim. 1:13, Paul obtained forgiveness of blasphemy because he did it ignorantly in unbelief, but these Pharisees were not ignorant. Thos. Goodwyn, one of the Puritans, says that two things are necessary in committing the unpardonable sin: "Light in the mind and malice in the heart.
In the first statement, it appears that attributing a miracle, including the presence of G-d, to Satan is the unpardonable sin. In which case, I recognize the miracles of the Holy Spirit as coming from G-d and attribute them accordingly.
In the second statement, it must be done with full and conscious knowledge the work or miracle is from G-d. There have been times I thought G-d was doing something and I was wrong. But it was in ignorance.

Although I called the Holy Spirit something terrible in my mind, it was under heavy demonic oppressison and the thought just popped in my mind. Maybe it didn't even originate with me.

In any case, it does not appear that I have committed the unpardonable sin, but my life is still not where it needs to be.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Del » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:37 am

coco wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:18 pm
Fainn wrote:Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
That's just how it is sometimes.
This inability to feel the presence of God is a common spiritual experience. It is called "desolation" and "darkness," and it is a trial that all of us go through on our way to holiness.

Most of us cycle through periods of consolation and desolation.

Consolation is a time for growing in the spiritual life.... when we are given graces toward deeper devotion and experience of God.

Desolation is a time for strengthening in the spiritual life. It is like a boot camp. Can we carry on without the training wheels? Will we persevere, without the perks and fuzzy feelings?

Many great saints experienced long and deep desolation. Desolation is not the sign of some unpardonable sin.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by durangopipe » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:11 am

Del wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:37 am
coco wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:18 pm
Fainn wrote:Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
That's just how it is sometimes.
This inability to feel the presence of God is a common spiritual experience. It is called "desolation" and "darkness," and it is a trial that all of us go through on our way to holiness.

Most of us cycle through periods of consolation and desolation.

Consolation is a time for growing in the spiritual life.... when we are given graces toward deeper devotion and experience of God.

Desolation is a time for strengthening in the spiritual life. It is like a boot camp. Can we carry on without the training wheels? Will we persevere, without the perks and fuzzy feelings?

Many great saints experienced long and deep desolation. Desolation is not the sign of some unpardonable sin.
So many great thinkers and well-known "spiritual authorities" have written on the subject, but you've said it as well or better and more understandably than any of them, Del.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Rusty » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:23 am

durangopipe wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:11 am
Del wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:37 am
coco wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:18 pm
Fainn wrote:Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
That's just how it is sometimes.
This inability to feel the presence of God is a common spiritual experience. It is called "desolation" and "darkness," and it is a trial that all of us go through on our way to holiness.

Most of us cycle through periods of consolation and desolation.

Consolation is a time for growing in the spiritual life.... when we are given graces toward deeper devotion and experience of God.

Desolation is a time for strengthening in the spiritual life. It is like a boot camp. Can we carry on without the training wheels? Will we persevere, without the perks and fuzzy feelings?

Many great saints experienced long and deep desolation. Desolation is not the sign of some unpardonable sin.
So many great thinkers and well-known "spiritual authorities" have written on the subject, but you've said it as well or better and more understandably than any of them, Del.
Agreed. Even atheists can understand that. We don't call it desolation and darkness though.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Del » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:24 pm

Rusty wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:23 am
durangopipe wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:11 am
Del wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:37 am
coco wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:18 pm
Fainn wrote:Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
That's just how it is sometimes.
This inability to feel the presence of God is a common spiritual experience. It is called "desolation" and "darkness," and it is a trial that all of us go through on our way to holiness.

Most of us cycle through periods of consolation and desolation.

Consolation is a time for growing in the spiritual life.... when we are given graces toward deeper devotion and experience of God.

Desolation is a time for strengthening in the spiritual life. It is like a boot camp. Can we carry on without the training wheels? Will we persevere, without the perks and fuzzy feelings?

Many great saints experienced long and deep desolation. Desolation is not the sign of some unpardonable sin.
So many great thinkers and well-known "spiritual authorities" have written on the subject, but you've said it as well or better and more understandably than any of them, Del.
Agreed. Even atheists can understand that. We don't call it desolation and darkness though.
That makes sense. The spiritual life is similar to our natural relationships. We start with a certain thrill of attraction or infatuation, but that wears off. Then we have to make a decision to friendship or love, and stick with it even when the relationship becomes strained at times. Or dealing with separation and distance.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Rusty » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:04 pm

Del wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:24 pm
Rusty wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:23 am
durangopipe wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:11 am
Del wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:37 am
coco wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:18 pm
Fainn wrote:Its crazy. I still can't feel the presence of G-d, yet he keeps sending me people to witness to. A neighbor I'd never talked to about G-d asked me to pray with him to help his alcohol addiction and another neighbor has been dealing with all kinds of spiritual strongholds.
That's just how it is sometimes.
This inability to feel the presence of God is a common spiritual experience. It is called "desolation" and "darkness," and it is a trial that all of us go through on our way to holiness.

Most of us cycle through periods of consolation and desolation.

Consolation is a time for growing in the spiritual life.... when we are given graces toward deeper devotion and experience of God.

Desolation is a time for strengthening in the spiritual life. It is like a boot camp. Can we carry on without the training wheels? Will we persevere, without the perks and fuzzy feelings?

Many great saints experienced long and deep desolation. Desolation is not the sign of some unpardonable sin.
So many great thinkers and well-known "spiritual authorities" have written on the subject, but you've said it as well or better and more understandably than any of them, Del.
Agreed. Even atheists can understand that. We don't call it desolation and darkness though.
That makes sense. The spiritual life is similar to our natural relationships. We start with a certain thrill of attraction or infatuation, but that wears off. Then we have to make a decision to friendship or love, and stick with it even when the relationship becomes strained at times. Or dealing with separation and distance.
This better reflects the extremes we may feel on occassion.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Goose55 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:57 pm

Matthew 12:31 is rendered by Eugene Peterson, in The Message as:

"When you reject the Holy Spirit, you’re sawing off the branch on which you’re sitting."

How does one know whether they have, are rejecting the Holy Spirit? If one is still wondering if they have or not, they have not.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by Fainn » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:06 pm

I still very much struggle with it. A few weeks ago, I cursed the Father with a bunch of obscenities.
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by hugodrax » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:58 am

Fainn wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:06 pm
I still very much struggle with it. A few weeks ago, I cursed the Father with a bunch of obscenities.
Who the heck hasn't? Fainn, you're a close friend. Ill tell you when I think you're out of line. Haven't you ever argued with your father? Why should your Father be any different?
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Re: Can a True Christian Commit the Unpardonable Sin?

Post by jruegg » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:02 am

Fainn wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:06 pm
I still very much struggle with it. A few weeks ago, I cursed the Father with a bunch of obscenities.
Jeremiah 20
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