It is pretty easy to make an Evangelical bible-Christian recoil by simply mentioning Mary. The reaction is often reflexive. When Marcus Grodi interviews converts on EWTN, he always asks how they dealt with overcoming their resistance to Mary and how they eventually came to know Mary. Let's not pretend like Evangelicals have a devotion to Mary that Catholics are blindly ignorant of.tuttle wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:08 pmI started to tangle with this, but it was like every other word I was responding to was a tangle. I can only hope that one day you'll actually take the time to read the Reformers or barring that, at the very least read some well reasoned history (not slanted from the RC perspective) about what they did and why they did it, not in order to persuade you, but in order for you to not sound like a dingbat about them on CPS
I would qualify that. Calvinists don't recoil from any mention of Mary, they recoil from interpretations of Mary that aren't supported in the Scriptures. And I'll qualify that even more. Recoil is too strong of a word. Disagree is better. (Again, that's not to say people don't recoil...but I really don't think that's the normal reaction to the mention of Mary)Del wrote:We know that Luther had a great devotion to Mary. Doesn't matter much, nowadays. The descendants of Mr. Calvin's tradition recoil from any mention of Mary.... like vampires from garlic. Why is that?
As far as Mary and the Bible go.... everything we know about Mary is biblical. But if a theology system misunderstands Mary, it's going to get a lot of the Bible wrong as well. I'm going to start a thread that will touch that topic, some day.
But the bigger question is "Where does the Bible belong, in our faith?" Apostolic Christians do not insist that our faith comes from Scripture. We insist that our faith comes from the Apostles and their teaching... and that the Bible was written for Christians who were already taught the basics of our faith. The Bible is rather useless unless a Christian already knows the facts of faith about the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and Transubstantiation.
It is true that much of what we know about Mary (such as her Perpetual Virginity and her Dormition/Assumption) are not founded in Scripture. But Scripture is very consistent with these doctrines of Christian faith.
Now you are talking like a Catholic!tuttle wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:08 pmEternal, sacrificial, perfect love? That's a mighty high bar there, my friend. More power (figuratively speaking) to you if you can achieve itDel wrote:I figure that I am fine, as long as I don't love and honor Mary more than Jesus does.
May I advocate another path to honor Mary? Seek to love Jesus as much as she does.
We say, "To Jesus, through Mary." We study her as an example.... but we also have a relationship with her, and let her guide us.
Here is the real difference: It's not what one believes about Mary, or the biblical arguments one makes about Mary. The real matter is whether one has a personal relationship with Mary. Have you met her?
If you have met Mary, then you have also met Jesus. They are always together.