Sola Scriptura=Unconditional Election?

For those deep thinkers out there.

Moderator: tuttle

Post Reply
User avatar
Skip
Everything in Moderatoration
Everything in Moderatoration
Posts: 24182
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Slightly East of Pepik
Contact:

Post by Skip » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:05 pm

wosbald wrote:Otherwise, this thread is dead.
IF ONLY WE COULD BE SO BLESSED !!!!

Hey, others have said it to me privately, I'm just lettin' the opinions be known. Now, if you'll excuse me -- and even if you won't -- I'm going back to my glass of Jamesons. With just a TAD bit of water.
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 Winner of the CPS Award: "Most Likely to be Found Without Pants at Any Given Moment"

2017 Curmudgeon of the Year

"No man is peer to Skip, peasant." -A_Morley

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36265
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Post by Del » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:09 pm

PipeAndPint wrote:
Dug wrote:It's either impressive or disturbing how much you can say while biting your tongue, Del.
His secret is the use of italics. :wink:
Ah... you can see right thru me!

I also noticed that no matter how sturdily I clenched upon my tongue (using some very desperate pipe-smoking techniques!), somehow my fingers remained free to access the keyboard....

I tip my hat to PipeandPint, Dug, and Wosbald... for clear thinking, and especially for having such marvelous resources and scholarship at your fingertips!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36265
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Post by Del » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:11 pm

Skip wrote:
wosbald wrote:Otherwise, this thread is dead.
IF ONLY WE COULD BE SO BLESSED !!!!
Yes... we must remain EVER vigilant for..

ZOMBIE THREADS!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
colton
Spiffy Enough
Spiffy Enough
Posts: 8154
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:00 pm
Contact:

Post by colton » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:20 pm

Skip wrote:
wosbald wrote:Otherwise, this thread is dead.
IF ONLY WE COULD BE SO BLESSED !!!!

Hey, others have said it to me privately, I'm just lettin' the opinions be known. Now, if you'll excuse me -- and even if you won't -- I'm going back to my glass of Jamesons. With just a TAD bit of water.
Nobody's making you click the link. Some of us like our horses good and dead.

User avatar
PipeAndPint
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 11889
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Post by PipeAndPint » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:22 pm

colton wrote:
Skip wrote:
wosbald wrote:Otherwise, this thread is dead.
IF ONLY WE COULD BE SO BLESSED !!!!

Hey, others have said it to me privately, I'm just lettin' the opinions be known. Now, if you'll excuse me -- and even if you won't -- I'm going back to my glass of Jamesons. With just a TAD bit of water.
Hey, nobody's makin' you click the link. Some of us like our horses good and dead.
Theology threads take up space on the leaderboard that could be used by word/phrase associations, youth room stuff, and other valuable topics. I'm with Skip on this one.
"Cigarettes are like indulgences. They promise a lot, but in the end are just paper for burning."

User avatar
Dug
Biff
Biff
Posts: 8991
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:00 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Dug » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:32 pm

PipeAndPint wrote:Theology threads take up space on the leaderboard that could be used by word/phrase associations, youth room stuff, and other valuable topics. I'm with Skip on this one.
Er, yeah, I'm on Skip's team, too. Always have been. That's the ticket...

Anyhoo, I hear that Jamesons goes well with a side of dead horse.

User avatar
Skip
Everything in Moderatoration
Everything in Moderatoration
Posts: 24182
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Slightly East of Pepik
Contact:

Post by Skip » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:04 pm

colton wrote:
Skip wrote:
wosbald wrote:Otherwise, this thread is dead.
IF ONLY WE COULD BE SO BLESSED !!!!

Hey, others have said it to me privately, I'm just lettin' the opinions be known. Now, if you'll excuse me -- and even if you won't -- I'm going back to my glass of Jamesons. With just a TAD bit of water.
Nobody's making you click the link. Some of us like our horses good and dead.
Fine. PnP and Dug get the Jamesons. And whatever else I have in my cabinet. You can suck down whatever cheap, watered-down booze that you can afford on your non-existent student allowance. Heck, even have some Bud Light for all I don't care.

Harrumph.
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 Winner of the CPS Award: "Most Likely to be Found Without Pants at Any Given Moment"

2017 Curmudgeon of the Year

"No man is peer to Skip, peasant." -A_Morley

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36265
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Post by Del » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:10 pm

YOU SEE?!!? I warned you...

Freshly dead threads coming back to life...

It's a ZOMBIE THREAD!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18447
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Post by wosbald » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:46 pm

+JMJ+
PipeAndPint wrote:Theology threads take up space on the leaderboard that could be used by word/phrase associations, youth room stuff, and other valuable topics.
:lol:




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
LieutenantGibGib
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 1670
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:00 pm

Post by LieutenantGibGib » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:24 pm

Well if we're taking sides then I'm with Colton. I prefer my distractions to at least attempt to be intellectually stimulating (ie. theology threads). If I want base sillyness I can simply recoil into my own psyche; I have little need for additional daftness.

As for drinks, I'm already well stocked. I have both whisky and whiskey in my cabinet.

User avatar
colton
Spiffy Enough
Spiffy Enough
Posts: 8154
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:00 pm
Contact:

Post by colton » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:36 pm

LieutenantGibGib wrote:Well if we're taking sides then I'm with Colton. I prefer my distractions to at least attempt to be intellectually stimulating (ie. theology threads). If I want base sillyness I can simply recoil into my own psyche; I have little need for additional daftness.

As for drinks, I'm already well stocked. I have both whisky and whiskey in my cabinet.
Awright then! I wasn't actually meaning to start a side, only to jokingly snub my nose at Skip, but the Lieutenant live across the pond, and so by birth has better taste, particularly in matters of drink. Therefore, Lieutenant, I expect you'll be sending me a plane ticket to your island so that you may drink with your leader. I'm going to need you to take care of my food and lodging too if that's not too much of a bother. Gee, this is a nifty turn of events; I should be flippant more often.

Cheers!

User avatar
deacondan
Congregation
Congregation
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Colorado

Post by deacondan » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:45 am

I just joined and am coming to this topic late, but for what it's worth:

The articles of religion of the United Methodist Church to which I belong states that Scripture is primary in that it contains "all things necessary for salvation."

It doesn't say inerrant in the sense that Scripture is omnicompetent in all areas NOT pertaining to salvation.

This is a wise position to me: b/c first of all, there are factual discrepencies in the Bible that just can't be got around. For example, there are two different accounts about how King Saul dies in the OT: one says his servant ran him through with a sword and then David has the servant executed. The other account claims Saul killed himself and a servant isn't mentioned. The point being, the Bible is sacred literature, not a scientific textbook.

2nd: The Bible as we know it didn't come about until almost 300 years after Jesus died........what books got in and which ones didn't was a matter for the early church fathers and councils: for example, both the Gospel of John and the book of Revelation almost didn't make it in.

So Methodists say the Scripture is "primary", but we also use three other resources for our theology: Tradition, reason, and experience. Together with Scripture they make up what we call the "Wesleyan Quadrilateral". But Scripture still remains primary........so while we are not "sola scripturaists", the Bible remains quite central in matters of faith.


As for unconditional election, it has never made sense to me, even if you just focus on Scripture alone, there seems to be plenty of scriptures that would point you toward a radical free choice in terms of one's eternal destination. Just one example: In Matthew 7:21 (i think it is), Christ says "not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven will enter." That to me makes salvation wide open to everyone.

Peace.
"Faith is not believing without proof but trusting without reservation." --William Sloane Coffin.

User avatar
LieutenantGibGib
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 1670
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:00 pm

Post by LieutenantGibGib » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:00 pm

colton wrote:
LieutenantGibGib wrote:Well if we're taking sides then I'm with Colton. I prefer my distractions to at least attempt to be intellectually stimulating (ie. theology threads). If I want base sillyness I can simply recoil into my own psyche; I have little need for additional daftness.

As for drinks, I'm already well stocked. I have both whisky and whiskey in my cabinet.
I wasn't actually meaning to start a side
I know but...
PipeAndPint wrote:I'm with Skip on this one.
Dug wrote:Er, yeah, I'm on Skip's team
So you see, you are simply 'the opposition' by default. You may not have started a side but you have one anyway.

User avatar
colton
Spiffy Enough
Spiffy Enough
Posts: 8154
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:00 pm
Contact:

Post by colton » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:08 pm

LieutenantGibGib wrote:
colton wrote:
LieutenantGibGib wrote:Well if we're taking sides then I'm with Colton. I prefer my distractions to at least attempt to be intellectually stimulating (ie. theology threads). If I want base sillyness I can simply recoil into my own psyche; I have little need for additional daftness.

As for drinks, I'm already well stocked. I have both whisky and whiskey in my cabinet.
I wasn't actually meaning to start a side
I know but...
PipeAndPint wrote:I'm with Skip on this one.
Dug wrote:Er, yeah, I'm on Skip's team
So you see, you are simply 'the opposition' by default. You may not have started a side but you have one anyway.
So the plane tickets are probably in the mail by now right? because me going to England is the essential part of taking sides thing.

User avatar
LieutenantGibGib
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 1670
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:00 pm

Post by LieutenantGibGib » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:22 am

Colton, I am afraid my conscience simply won't allow me to welcome anyone into our country as long as the smoking ban is still in effect. It just wouldn't be civilised.

So I suggest you form your own segment of England and/or Yorkshire over there. Here's a starter pack to get you going:

1. Tea

Image

2. Crumpets

Image

3. Roast beef and Yorkshire pudding

Image

4. Pint of Tetley's

Image

5. Benny Hill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs2Uc-2vJwE

6. Mr Bean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqOJE9wc7ew

User avatar
Dug
Biff
Biff
Posts: 8991
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:00 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Dug » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:32 am

LieutenantGibGib wrote: 2. Crumpets

Image
Aha! I see you folks are now trying to market your own substandard knockoffs under some new name. They're properly called "English muffins" and they're as American as mango chutney.

[And BTW, I'm very proud of the new threadjacking heights which to which we've ascended here. The thread title/content disjunction is enough to give me goosebumps. No, not "goose flesh" or "goose pimples"; goosebumps.]

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36265
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Post by Del » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:48 am

Dug wrote:
LieutenantGibGib wrote: 2. Crumpets
Aha! I see you folks are now trying to market your own substandard knockoffs under some new name. They're properly called "English muffins" and they're as American as mango chutney.

[And BTW, I'm very proud of the new threadjacking heights which to which we've ascended here. The thread title/content disjunction is enough to give me goosebumps. No, not "goose flesh" or "goose pimples"; goosebumps.]
That's the thing about ZOMBIE THREADS... they can make you break out with all sorts of eruptions.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

User avatar
LieutenantGibGib
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 1670
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:00 pm

Post by LieutenantGibGib » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:18 pm

Dug wrote:
LieutenantGibGib wrote: 2. Crumpets

Image
Aha! I see you folks are now trying to market your own substandard knockoffs under some new name. They're properly called "English muffins" and they're as American as mango chutney.

[And BTW, I'm very proud of the new threadjacking heights which to which we've ascended here. The thread title/content disjunction is enough to give me goosebumps. No, not "goose flesh" or "goose pimples"; goosebumps.]
Oh is that right? The internet begs to differ:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumpet

If you're interested many Northerners call them pikelets anyway.

Also on offer is plenty of crumpet in the other sense of the word, if that so takes your fancy.

User avatar
LieutenantGibGib
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 1670
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:00 pm

Post by LieutenantGibGib » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:23 pm

And I'm not even convinced mango chutney is specifically American either:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mango_Chutney

User avatar
Dug
Biff
Biff
Posts: 8991
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:00 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Dug » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:24 pm

(I trust that you picked up on the fact that I was being completely facetious, Lieutenant, and overplaying the role of the Ugly American.)

Post Reply