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UncleBob
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Post by UncleBob » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:28 pm

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Post by Thoth » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:27 am

He hasn't alter crap. Alot of how an embryo develops is based on gradients of proteins or hormones. For example the way your fingers develop is a bud on the proto-hand starts to produce a protein the section closest to it develops into a thumb and the furthest a pinkie and everything in between. If you (and they have done the experiments on primate embryos) put a bead with the same protein on the opposite side of the the hand you end up with two thumbs.

He just manipulated that or how and when certain genes are expressed. altering the the protein gradient or signal cascade. Actually the tolerances (to put it in engineering terms) in a forming a properly formed embryo are so tight its amazing that the number of health babies that are born is as high as it is.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:49 am

I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!

For years scientists have pounded into our heads evolution works a specific way, even though that way is in constant flux, meaning they (scientists) change it all the time. But when man, artificially alters this specific way, they still claim it as part of evolution, even though evolution is supposedly natural. Sometimes being the smartest person in the room means you are also the dumbest person in the room.

In caveman talk I will explain how human manipulation of "evolution" is not evolution.

If I take an axe and manipulate a sheep into two halves, that is not evolution. It’s called making dinner.

If I take an axe and cut a sheep into two parts and all by itself it grows into two sheep...now you have something to talk about.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

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Post by wosbald » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:15 am

+JMJ+
Thoth wrote:
He hasn't alter crap. Alot of how an embryo develops is based on gradients of proteins or hormones. For example the way your fingers develop is a bud on the proto-hand starts to produce a protein the section closest to it develops into a thumb and the furthest a pinkie and everything in between. If you (and they have done the experiments on primate embryos) put a bead with the same protein on the opposite side of the the hand you end up with two thumbs.

He just manipulated that or how and when certain genes are expressed. altering the the protein gradient or signal cascade. Actually the tolerances (to put it in engineering terms) in a forming a properly formed embryo are so tight its amazing that the number of health babies that are born is as high as it is.
Interesting. But please start using commas, because I have a hard time following your sentence structure without them.
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Post by gaining_age » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:19 am

Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:46 am

gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

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Post by gaining_age » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:52 am

Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Out of control odd rare old man (or possibly an hobbyist). -- Label by The Big R.
The 6s of 1st John:
2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked
3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning

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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:55 am

gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Depends, I suppose. Is there something specific you are looking for I can research? I normally research things that are of personal interest, but I can make an exception.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Post by gaining_age » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:56 am

Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Depends, I suppose. Is there something specific you are looking for I can research? I normally research things that are of personal interest, but I can make an exception.
How about Snell's law?
Out of control odd rare old man (or possibly an hobbyist). -- Label by The Big R.
The 6s of 1st John:
2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked
3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning

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Post by Rusty » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:57 am

gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Why on earth would you care at all?
You know that his education isn't in the sciences. So pulling him into an area where you have far more expertise isn't really really going to effect the outcome. Unless you're just looking for an argument?
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gaining_age
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Post by gaining_age » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:07 am

Rusty wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Why on earth would you care at all?
You know that his education isn't in the sciences. So pulling him into an area where you have far more expertise isn't really really going to effect the outcome. Unless you're just looking for an argument?
:)

Not looking for an argument-- but perhaps some balance. Maybe Kerdy can have two bins for science:

1) silly

2) boring

If I know he has two bins then he can just file all the stuff I'm an expert on into the boring bin and I'll know he's not picking on those scientists that also fall into that bin.

G.
Out of control odd rare old man (or possibly an hobbyist). -- Label by The Big R.
The 6s of 1st John:
2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked
3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning

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Thoth
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Post by Thoth » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:46 am

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+
Interesting. But please start using commas, because I have a hard time following your sentence structure without them.

Mea culpa. It was written late at night and in a fit of pique at the lousy science reporting. My grammar is bad enough with out those compounding factors. Mea maxima culpa.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:49 am

Rusty wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Why on earth would you care at all?
You know that his education isn't in the sciences. So pulling him into an area where you have far more expertise isn't really really going to effect the outcome. Unless you're just looking for an argument?
Dats riet. I don't be dun gots no edjumication in dem dar sciences so I caints have no informed opiniouns.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Thoth
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Post by Thoth » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:49 am

Aliens Will Destroy the Earth ??!!

This Kerdy is silly stupid science, the other example was just lousy science reporting.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:50 am

gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Depends, I suppose. Is there something specific you are looking for I can research? I normally research things that are of personal interest, but I can make an exception.
How about Snell's law?
What about it?
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:54 am

Thoth wrote:Aliens Will Destroy the Earth ??!!

This Kerdy is silly stupid science, the other example was just lousy science reporting.
So we are using different language and expressions to say the same thing. Scientists who use lousy science and report lousy results of lousy research are still part of the scientific community. Why does everyone think I dismiss science as evil? I don't. Only dishonest science which gives possibilities as fact, which is a lie.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:58 am

gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Depends, I suppose. Is there something specific you are looking for I can research? I normally research things that are of personal interest, but I can make an exception.
How about Snell's law?
Don't they use this when making eyeglasses? If so, I suspect its a fairly solid law. I wear glasses when driving and benefit greatly from them.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Post by Rusty » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:06 am

Kerdy wrote:
Rusty wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Why on earth would you care at all?
You know that his education isn't in the sciences. So pulling him into an area where you have far more expertise isn't really really going to effect the outcome. Unless you're just looking for an argument?
Dats riet. I don't be dun gots no edjumication in dem dar sciences so I caints have no informed opiniouns.
You are welcome to your opinions. But I think it's pointless discussing any of it with you. If we're talking about an area in your expertise then you're quite coherent and rational. But on science you appear not even to have the fundamentals. And some of the science articles seem to assault your sense of the way things work. If, as GA as done, we take discussion into a relatively neutral area of science ie fundamentals of optics then it has no interest to you. It's your peculiar interpretation plus some of the more sensational media reporting of science that gets you going. Enjoy! Rave on.

GA's attitude, approach, etc contrasts dramatically with yours. It's not that either of you is wrong or somehow prohibited from having an opinion. I know that there are lots of areas of science that pose a bit of challenge to GA's faith as well. But he just refrains from discussing them. He's very gentle in his responses too.
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Post by UncleBob » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:56 am

Kerdy wrote:
Thoth wrote:Aliens Will Destroy the Earth ??!!

This Kerdy is silly stupid science, the other example was just lousy science reporting.
So we are using different language and expressions to say the same thing. Scientists who use lousy science and report lousy results of lousy research are still part of the scientific community. Why does everyone think I dismiss science as evil? I don't. Only dishonest science which gives possibilities as fact, which is a lie.
Poor or sensational reporting is a major problem with the public understanding of science. Most people want to digest science in "sound bites" or "bullet points." Often these issues are more complex or taken to some imagined extreme in order to drive web traffic.

As an example (in some other area than science) consider the idea of national "no fly" lists for homeland security. The media often portray extreme examples (ie the 8 year old that is on the list) or simplify complex issues into an either/or construct or some other simplistic means for public outrage--a way of generating traffic or "discussion". Often these have little impact on serious issues once one begins to fairly investigate the issue and many times they are simply incorrect. This happens A LOT with science reporting.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Post by Kerdy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:40 pm

Rusty wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
Rusty wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
gaining_age wrote:
Kerdy wrote:I find the scientific world silly at times. An example? Certainly!
Can you pick on physics or chemistry? Biology is getting a bit of a bruised ego.

:)
G.
I'm not picking on biology or any other field. I'm just pointing out the dishonesty.
Right... except your dishonesty assessment lingers over evolution and biology (perhaps global climate too). Let's dig into chemistry and physics-- what's your assessment there?

G.
Why on earth would you care at all?
You know that his education isn't in the sciences. So pulling him into an area where you have far more expertise isn't really really going to effect the outcome. Unless you're just looking for an argument?
Dats riet. I don't be dun gots no edjumication in dem dar sciences so I caints have no informed opiniouns.
You are welcome to your opinions. But I think it's pointless discussing any of it with you.
Let me put it to you this way. You know how you are sitting on the sidelines waiting for something to convince you God exists and such? Good, now apply that feeling to me when people in the scientific community attempt to convince me of things without that same sort of proof you are looking for about God. Oh, sure, there is a lot of stuff that suggests possibilities that could be, etc., but until there is real proof…

Unless the same principles are not allowed for those who do not blindly accept scientific mythology.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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