THE CATHOLIC THREAD

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:59 pm

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:34 am

Thunktank wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:59 pm
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Made me think of Ratatouille. Also of Winston Churchill.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:15 pm

+JMJ+

Quasi-Defectibility and Phil Lawler vs. Pope Francis
Image
Neither the Church nor the pope can fall away from the faith. It’s never yet happened in 2000 years, and will not. This is the doctrine of indefectibility. (Credit: Wikimedia Commons)

Catholics believe in the indefectibility of the Church, which includes the pope, on a biblical basis, as well as a traditional one. St. Robert Bellarmine (in teaching that was reiterated by the First Vatican Council in 1870) taught that the pope could never bind the faithful to heresy; that it would and could never happen.

Yet, lo and behold, today we hear a growing loud, relentless, chorus of naysaying, faith-challenged folks who seem to think this can happen. We have people like Phil Lawler (who studied political philosophy in college and later became a prominent Catholic journalist), author of the upcoming book, Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock, stating in its Introduction:
I did my best to provide assurance—for my readers and sometimes for myself—that despite his sometimes alarming remarks, Francis was not a radical, was not leading the Church away from the ancient sources of the Faith. But gradually, reluctantly, I came to the conclusion that he was. . . .

I found I could no longer pretend that Francis was merely offering a novel interpretation of Catholic doctrine. No, it was more than that. He was engaged in a deliberate effort to change what the Church teaches.
What exactly is Lawler claiming? What teaching of the Church is Pope Francis supposedly going to change? Well, we don’t know for sure yet. The book comes out next February 26th. I’m quoting these portions from the glowing review given to the book by Catholic apologist and one of the fathers of the modern apologetics movement (and my good friend), Karl Keating.

[…]

If Phil Lawler is claiming that Pope Francis is going to overturn an actual dogma of the Church, that’s an assertion of defectibility: a thing that has never happened in the history of the Church, and which faithful Catholics believe never would or could happen. I think he’s sharp enough to realize the utterly radical, alarming nature of that claim, and so he steps back and adopts the reactionary tactic of quasi-defectibility: allowing him to have it both ways, and talk out of two sides of his mouth. He can sound the alarm and play the prophet (like Voris, Sungenis, Ferrara, The Remnant, 1 Peter 5, Lifesite News, Rorate Caeli, the reactionary-dominated Correctio, and others have been doing) about how terrible things are without — like Gandalf — going over the hopeless cliff of defectibility.

[…]




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by DepartedLight » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:35 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:34 am
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:59 pm
Image
Made me think of Ratatouille. Also of Winston Churchill.
Hugo, you rube.

The Thunk is from the Eastern Tradition.

It’s a mouse gnawing a dried banana peal. That’s a dried banana peal.

What is the significance of these images in the ancient Christian Economy?

That is the question, friends.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:46 pm

DepartedLight wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:35 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:34 am
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:59 pm
Image
Made me think of Ratatouille. Also of Winston Churchill.
Hugo, you rube.

The Thunk is from the Eastern Tradition.

It’s a mouse gnawing a dried banana peal. That’s a dried banana peal.

What is the significance of these images in the ancient Christian Economy?

That is the question, friends.
A mouse with a banana peel is just setting a trap; that's all.

Image
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:18 am

+JMJ+

On New Year’s Eve, Pope Francis delivers his ‘silent majority’ speech
Image
Pope Francis kisses a statue of the Divine Infant as he celebrates a new year's eve vespers service in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, Sunday, Dec. 31, 2017. (Credit: AP Photo/Andrew Medichini.)

ROME - A pope is also the Bishop of Rome, and every once in a while, Romans expect to hear something special from their shepherd. On Sunday Pope Francis delivered, offering a New Year’s Eve homily expressing gratitude for his own Roman flock - although in terms, however, which will have resonance well beyond the Eternal City.

In effect, this was Pope Francis’s version of the famous 1969 “silent majority” speech by U.S. President Richard Nixon, suggesting that the concerns of ordinary people aren’t necessarily reflected in the rattle and hum of media coverage.

While Nixon meant the phrase as an assertion of support for his own conservative politics, Francis appeared to set up the silent majority in Rome as an alternative to politics of all sorts - meaning people, the pope said, who serve their communities not through noisy words, but quiet deeds.

The pope spoke during a vespers service in St. Peter’s Basilica intended to offer thanks for the year coming to a close.

[…]




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:13 am

wosbald wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:18 am
+JMJ+

On New Year’s Eve, Pope Francis delivers his ‘silent majority’ speech
Image
Pope Francis kisses a statue of the Divine Infant as he celebrates a new year's eve vespers service in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, Sunday, Dec. 31, 2017. (Credit: AP Photo/Andrew Medichini.)

ROME - A pope is also the Bishop of Rome, and every once in a while, Romans expect to hear something special from their shepherd. On Sunday Pope Francis delivered, offering a New Year’s Eve homily expressing gratitude for his own Roman flock - although in terms, however, which will have resonance well beyond the Eternal City.

In effect, this was Pope Francis’s version of the famous 1969 “silent majority” speech by U.S. President Richard Nixon, suggesting that the concerns of ordinary people aren’t necessarily reflected in the rattle and hum of media coverage.

While Nixon meant the phrase as an assertion of support for his own conservative politics, Francis appeared to set up the silent majority in Rome as an alternative to politics of all sorts - meaning people, the pope said, who serve their communities not through noisy words, but quiet deeds.

The pope spoke during a vespers service in St. Peter’s Basilica intended to offer thanks for the year coming to a close.

[…]
Pope Francis hits the nail on our problem here in CPS, and especially in this thread. The matters of most concern Catholic men and Catholic families in our daily lives -- are not the topics of news articles, even in the Catholic press.

This thread does not get much discussion because the news links don't have much to do with Catholic life.
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"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:19 pm

+JMJ=

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:20 am

+JMJ+

"Pope of Mercy" talks penance in opening public act of 2018
Image
Pope Francis is cheered by faithful as he arrives in the Paul VI hall on the occasion of the weekly general audience at the Vatican, Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2018. (Credit: AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia.)

ROME - Resuming a series of talks he began before the Christmas holidays on the various parts of the Mass, the “Pope of Mercy” in his first General Audience of 2018 focused on the importance of the Act of Penance at the beginning of Mass, saying, “only those who recognize their sins and ask forgiveness can receive the understanding and forgiveness of others.”

The centrality of God’s mercy, and the importance of penance, have been important themes for Pope Francis since his election in March 2013, culminating in the special Jubilee Year of Mercy called by the pontiff to run from December 2015 to late November 2016.

On Wednesday, Francis was back at it, trying to stress the centrality of the Act of Penance to everything that follows in the Mass.

“What can the Lord give to someone whose heart is full of themselves, of their own success?” he asked. “Nothing, because the presumptuous person is incapable of receiving forgiveness, satisfied as they are with their presumed justice.”

The pope then stepped through the elements of the Act of Penance, including the request for forgiveness for “what I have done and what I have failed to do.”

[…]

Francis noted that while the Act of Penance at the Mass ends with absolution from the priest, it doesn’t have the same value as the absolution offered in the sacrament of confession.

“There are, in fact, grave sins, the so-called ‘mortal sins’ because they cause the eternal life in us to die,” Francis said. “For those sins, in order to be forgiven, confession and sacramental absolution are necessary.”

[…]




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:52 am

+JMJ+

Conservative Catholic dissidents attack Popes Francis and Benedict
Image
Pope Francis, left, embraces Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI before opening the Holy Door to mark the opening of the Catholic Holy Year, or Jubilee, in St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, on Dec. 8, 2015. Photo courtesy of Osservatore Romano/Handout via Reuters

(RNS) — Conservative Catholic dissidents, who have been attacking Pope Francis, showed their true colors recently by attacking retired Pope Benedict, calling his writings “subversive” and “modernist.” That’s right, they think Benedict is a heretic.

In his new book, “Al Cuore di Ratzinger, Al Cuore del Mondo,” the Italian philosopher Enrico Maria Radaelli goes after Joseph Ratzinger’s “Introduction to Christianity,” one of Pope Benedict’s most popular books. Radaelli accuses him of embracing modern subjectivism by dabbling in Kant’s transcendentalism and Hegel’s “dialectical idealism.”

Radaelli is joined in this attack by Monsignor Antonio Livi, dean emeritus of the faculty of philosophy of the Pontifical Lateran University. What is noteworthy is that last summer both of these academics signed a letter of correction addressed to Pope Francis asking him to change his “erroneous” views.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 am

wosbald wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:52 am
+JMJ+

Conservative Catholic dissidents attack Popes Francis and Benedict
Image
Pope Francis, left, embraces Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI before opening the Holy Door to mark the opening of the Catholic Holy Year, or Jubilee, in St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, on Dec. 8, 2015. Photo courtesy of Osservatore Romano/Handout via Reuters

(RNS) — Conservative Catholic dissidents, who have been attacking Pope Francis, showed their true colors recently by attacking retired Pope Benedict, calling his writings “subversive” and “modernist.” That’s right, they think Benedict is a heretic.

In his new book, “Al Cuore di Ratzinger, Al Cuore del Mondo,” the Italian philosopher Enrico Maria Radaelli goes after Joseph Ratzinger’s “Introduction to Christianity,” one of Pope Benedict’s most popular books. Radaelli accuses him of embracing modern subjectivism by dabbling in Kant’s transcendentalism and Hegel’s “dialectical idealism.”

Radaelli is joined in this attack by Monsignor Antonio Livi, dean emeritus of the faculty of philosophy of the Pontifical Lateran University. What is noteworthy is that last summer both of these academics signed a letter of correction addressed to Pope Francis asking him to change his “erroneous” views.

[…]
Image
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:38 am

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:52 am
+JMJ+

Conservative Catholic dissidents attack Popes Francis and Benedict
Image
Pope Francis, left, embraces Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI before opening the Holy Door to mark the opening of the Catholic Holy Year, or Jubilee, in St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, on Dec. 8, 2015. Photo courtesy of Osservatore Romano/Handout via Reuters

(RNS) — Conservative Catholic dissidents, who have been attacking Pope Francis, showed their true colors recently by attacking retired Pope Benedict, calling his writings “subversive” and “modernist.” That’s right, they think Benedict is a heretic.

In his new book, “Al Cuore di Ratzinger, Al Cuore del Mondo,” the Italian philosopher Enrico Maria Radaelli goes after Joseph Ratzinger’s “Introduction to Christianity,” one of Pope Benedict’s most popular books. Radaelli accuses him of embracing modern subjectivism by dabbling in Kant’s transcendentalism and Hegel’s “dialectical idealism.”

Radaelli is joined in this attack by Monsignor Antonio Livi, dean emeritus of the faculty of philosophy of the Pontifical Lateran University. What is noteworthy is that last summer both of these academics signed a letter of correction addressed to Pope Francis asking him to change his “erroneous” views.

[…]
Image
I find it most interesting to look up the authors of these pieces on either end. Father Reese, for example, is what you'd describe as a rainbow farter. Ordained a Jesuit in the 60's, educated partly at Berkley, pushed out of an editoring gig at a journal of his founding by the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for some controversial views, he nonetheless remains a member of the loyal opposition.

It is so difficult to weigh these opinion pieces objectively. Off the cuff, they seem more like hit pieces back and forth than anything really designed to settle differences within theological disagreements among the faithful. Best I can ever say is I never fully agree nor completely disagree with any of them.

Francis is a mystery to me. I like him for it, too, to an extent. I cannot disagree with his message of love even if I don't always understand it.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am

hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:38 am
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 am
wosbald wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:52 am
+JMJ+

Conservative Catholic dissidents attack Popes Francis and Benedict
Image
Pope Francis, left, embraces Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI before opening the Holy Door to mark the opening of the Catholic Holy Year, or Jubilee, in St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, on Dec. 8, 2015. Photo courtesy of Osservatore Romano/Handout via Reuters

(RNS) — Conservative Catholic dissidents, who have been attacking Pope Francis, showed their true colors recently by attacking retired Pope Benedict, calling his writings “subversive” and “modernist.” That’s right, they think Benedict is a heretic.

In his new book, “Al Cuore di Ratzinger, Al Cuore del Mondo,” the Italian philosopher Enrico Maria Radaelli goes after Joseph Ratzinger’s “Introduction to Christianity,” one of Pope Benedict’s most popular books. Radaelli accuses him of embracing modern subjectivism by dabbling in Kant’s transcendentalism and Hegel’s “dialectical idealism.”

Radaelli is joined in this attack by Monsignor Antonio Livi, dean emeritus of the faculty of philosophy of the Pontifical Lateran University. What is noteworthy is that last summer both of these academics signed a letter of correction addressed to Pope Francis asking him to change his “erroneous” views.

[…]
Image
I find it most interesting to look up the authors of these pieces on either end. Father Reese, for example, is what you'd describe as a rainbow farter. Ordained a Jesuit in the 60's, educated partly at Berkley, pushed out of an editoring gig at a journal of his founding by the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for some controversial views, he nonetheless remains a member of the loyal opposition.

It is so difficult to weigh these opinion pieces objectively. Off the cuff, they seem more like hit pieces back and forth than anything really designed to settle differences within theological disagreements among the faithful. Best I can ever say is I never fully agree nor completely disagree with any of them.

Francis is a mystery to me. I like him for it, too, to an extent. I cannot disagree with his message of love even if I don't always understand it.
Fr. Reese writes stuff like this (from the link):
Sadly, the church does expect seminarians to learn Greek philosophy before studying theology, which results in them spouting unintelligible concepts like “transubstantiation” and “consubstantial.”
This parody from 2010 reminds us of Fr. Reese's long reputation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JR45AJYPYQ
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by OldWorldSwine » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:00 pm

wosbald wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:52 am
+JMJ+

Conservative Catholic dissidents attack Popes Francis and Benedict
Image
Pope Francis, left, embraces Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI before opening the Holy Door to mark the opening of the Catholic Holy Year, or Jubilee, in St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, on Dec. 8, 2015. Photo courtesy of Osservatore Romano/Handout via Reuters

(RNS) — Conservative Catholic dissidents, who have been attacking Pope Francis, showed their true colors recently by attacking retired Pope Benedict, calling his writings “subversive” and “modernist.” That’s right, they think Benedict is a heretic.

In his new book, “Al Cuore di Ratzinger, Al Cuore del Mondo,” the Italian philosopher Enrico Maria Radaelli goes after Joseph Ratzinger’s “Introduction to Christianity,” one of Pope Benedict’s most popular books. Radaelli accuses him of embracing modern subjectivism by dabbling in Kant’s transcendentalism and Hegel’s “dialectical idealism.”

Radaelli is joined in this attack by Monsignor Antonio Livi, dean emeritus of the faculty of philosophy of the Pontifical Lateran University. What is noteworthy is that last summer both of these academics signed a letter of correction addressed to Pope Francis asking him to change his “erroneous” views.

[…]
Clearly a reactionary fanatic!!
"There's what's right and there's what's right and never the twain shall meet."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:35 pm

+JMJ+
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am
Fr. Reese writes stuff like this (from the link):
Sadly, the church does expect seminarians to learn Greek philosophy before studying theology, which results in them spouting unintelligible concepts like “transubstantiation” and “consubstantial.”
This parody from 2010 reminds us of Fr. Reese's long reputation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JR45AJYPYQ
And yet, none of this has anything to do with whether or not an Italian philosopher, Enrico Maria Radaelli, is casting subtle insinuations onto a Pope, whether Francis or, now, Benedict.




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:09 pm

wosbald wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:35 pm
+JMJ+
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am
Fr. Reese writes stuff like this (from the link):
Sadly, the church does expect seminarians to learn Greek philosophy before studying theology, which results in them spouting unintelligible concepts like “transubstantiation” and “consubstantial.”
This parody from 2010 reminds us of Fr. Reese's long reputation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JR45AJYPYQ
And yet, none of this has anything to do with whether or not an Italian philosopher, Enrico Maria Radaelli, is casting subtle insinuations onto a Pope, whether Francis or, now, Benedict.
I think that this is because I don't care.

Every good Pope has drawn undeserved attacks from dissenters.
Every bad Pope has drawn deserved attacks from saints.
And a reg'lar guy like Pope Francis gets attacked from all sides.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:11 pm

wosbald wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:35 pm
+JMJ+
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 am
Fr. Reese writes stuff like this (from the link):
Sadly, the church does expect seminarians to learn Greek philosophy before studying theology, which results in them spouting unintelligible concepts like “transubstantiation” and “consubstantial.”
This parody from 2010 reminds us of Fr. Reese's long reputation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JR45AJYPYQ
And yet, none of this has anything to do with whether or not an Italian philosopher, Enrico Maria Radaelli, is casting subtle insinuations onto a Pope, whether Francis or, now, Benedict.
You get a cookie. You'll get another one if you tell me why I should care about the matter? Seems to me like it won't hurt the papacy much. The dubia didn't do anything but make some waves in the press. Why does Radaelli change my life? It's seems to me like a fight between fringe elements, both of them probably partially correct, neither of them fully correct.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:24 am

+JMJ+

Nationalists demand prayers to Hindu deity at Catholic college in India
Image
Police outside the gates of St. Mary's Post Graduate College in Vidisha, India. (Credit: Father Biju Phillip, Director of the Social Service Center/Sagar Diocese.)

MUMBAI, India - Clashes took place outside of a Catholic college in India, after members of a Hindu-nationalist student association tried to force the school to allow them to perform a Hindu religious ritual at the facility.

Police had to be called when the members of the by Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) refused to leave when their demand was denied, and some members of the group scuffled with the officers.

“The ABVP youth wing trespassed St. Mary’s Post Graduate College - which is a private, unaided institution - on December 30 and they threatened that they would perform Bharat Mata Aarti forcefully on January 4, 2018,” said Father Maria Stephen, the public relations officer for the Catholic Church in the state of Madhya Pradesh.

“The activists were demanding that they perform a Hindu ritual inside the premises,” he told Crux.

Aarti is a Hindu religious ritual to a deity involving the burning of a special candle, accompanied by songs of praise. Bharat Mata is an Hindu “mother goddess” which is the personification of the nation of India, and plays a significant role in Indian nationalism.

[…]




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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:05 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:24 am
+JMJ+

Nationalists demand prayers to Hindu deity at Catholic college in India
Image
Police outside the gates of St. Mary's Post Graduate College in Vidisha, India. (Credit: Father Biju Phillip, Director of the Social Service Center/Sagar Diocese.)

MUMBAI, India - Clashes took place outside of a Catholic college in India, after members of a Hindu-nationalist student association tried to force the school to allow them to perform a Hindu religious ritual at the facility.

Police had to be called when the members of the by Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) refused to leave when their demand was denied, and some members of the group scuffled with the officers.

“The ABVP youth wing trespassed St. Mary’s Post Graduate College - which is a private, unaided institution - on December 30 and they threatened that they would perform Bharat Mata Aarti forcefully on January 4, 2018,” said Father Maria Stephen, the public relations officer for the Catholic Church in the state of Madhya Pradesh.

“The activists were demanding that they perform a Hindu ritual inside the premises,” he told Crux.

Aarti is a Hindu religious ritual to a deity involving the burning of a special candle, accompanied by songs of praise. Bharat Mata is an Hindu “mother goddess” which is the personification of the nation of India, and plays a significant role in Indian nationalism.

[…]
I wish that Catholic colleges in America were as courageous in defying secular sacrilege and the culture of death.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by DepartedLight » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:47 pm

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Saturday: 5:15 p.m. Vigil Mass
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