THE CATHOLIC THREAD

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:22 am

During Sunday's Homily a visiting priest told us to consider that we are not human beings on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings on a human journey.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:24 am

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:22 am
During Sunday's Homily a visiting priest told us to consider that we are not human beings on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings on a human journey.
So he wasn’t a Dominican, then?
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 am

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:24 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:22 am
During Sunday's Homily a visiting priest told us to consider that we are not human beings on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings on a human journey.
So he wasn’t a Dominican, then?
Appropriately for the day, a St. Patrick's!
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:12 am

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 am
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:24 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:22 am
During Sunday's Homily a visiting priest told us to consider that we are not human beings on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings on a human journey.
So he wasn’t a Dominican, then?
Appropriately for the day, a St. Patrick's!
A what?
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Hovannes
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:12 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 am
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:24 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:22 am
During Sunday's Homily a visiting priest told us to consider that we are not human beings on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings on a human journey.
So he wasn’t a Dominican, then?
Appropriately for the day, a St. Patrick's!
A what?
A St. Patrick Father
https://www.facebook.com/stpatricksmiss ... tychicago/
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:16 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:12 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 am
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:24 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:22 am
During Sunday's Homily a visiting priest told us to consider that we are not human beings on a spiritual journey, but rather spiritual beings on a human journey.
So he wasn’t a Dominican, then?
Appropriately for the day, a St. Patrick's!
A what?
A St. Patrick Father
https://www.facebook.com/stpatricksmiss ... tychicago/
No Facebook. Never heard of them. Probably a front for the New IRA.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:57 pm

A blessed and happy Feast of Saint Joseph to you all!
Even the Jesuits.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:08 pm

We've a problem with Satanists stealing consecrated hosts.
It got a bit tense at today's morning mass, to say the least! 8O
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:16 pm

+JMJ+

Rector of Montreal’s St. Joseph’s Oratory stabbed during televised Mass
Image
Father Claude Grou, rector of St. Joseph's Oratory in Montreal, seen June 4, 2018, was wounded March 22, 2019, after being stabbed during a televised Mass in the crypt of the oratory. (Credit: Francois Gloutnay/Presence via CNS)

MONTREAL, Canada — Father Claude Grou, rector of St. Joseph’s Oratory of Mount Royal, was stabbed during a Mass March 22. The motive for the attack remains unknown.

He was taken to the hospital and was in stable condition, said a statement from the Archdiocese of Montreal.

During the 8:30 a.m. Mass in the crypt, a tall, light-skinned man wearing a white hat walked toward Grou and stabbed him in the stomach.

“At the end of the psalm, just before the … Gospel, there is this guy who comes from who-knows-where — I only film the front of the crypt — and who moves rather quickly,” said Dinh Khoi Vu, who directed the morning Mass at the Oratory for Salt and Light Television.

“Father Grou saw him coming with his knife. He had the reaction to move to the side, but he was still touched,” he added.

“The knife fell. The aggressor was no longer able to pick it up. Many faithful rushed to hold him back.”

Grou got up, and members of the security service managed to control the attacker.

Fifty people were gathered in the crypt of St. Joseph’s Oratory.

“Father Grou left the oratory, sitting in a wheelchair,” to the applause of some people, relieved to see that he was still conscious, explained Vu. Grou left the oratory in an ambulance.

“He was sitting. He was conscious, “said Celine Barbeau, spokeswoman for the oratory.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:59 pm

Cardinal Sarah: migration a new form of slavery Image

https://www.foxnews.com/world/catholic- ... justify-it
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:27 pm

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:59 pm
Cardinal Sarah: migration a new form of slavery Image

https://www.foxnews.com/world/catholic- ... justify-it
The above-linked article wrote: […]

Sarah’s comments are in stark contrast to those from Pope Francis on the subject. Francis has repeatedly stressed the value of migration and has encouraged European countries, in particular, to open their border to flows of migrants coming from the third world.

[…]
:rotfl:

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:34 am

wosbald wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:27 pm
+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:59 pm
Cardinal Sarah: migration a new form of slavery Image

https://www.foxnews.com/world/catholic- ... justify-it
The above-linked article wrote: […]

Sarah’s comments are in stark contrast to those from Pope Francis on the subject. Francis has repeatedly stressed the value of migration and has encouraged European countries, in particular, to open their border to flows of migrants coming from the third world.

[…]
:rotfl:
Wos,

Typically, I wake up rather rough. Unshaven and surly, surrounded by children we have to get to school and who, invariably, cannot find something of critical importance to the mission. Before coffee and morning ablutions, I'm not fit to be seen nor heard.

Because of my respect for you, I've had two cups of coffee, bathed and shaved, and startled my neighbors by appearing on the patio in my robe and slippers, pipe full of Prince Albert in my hand. Even the tobacco was chosen out of respect for you--I cannot make it turn bitter or harsh, no matter my puffing cadence. All of this was done in the prayer that I may be reasonable. Come, Holy Spirit, and enkindle our hearts with the flame of Thy divine love.

For every Catholic position, there exists an obverse and a reverse, a yin and a yang. The struggle is often in not seeing those with the opposite position as just a bunch of yinyangs.

I believe you live in a more theoretical world than I do. I'd put pretty good money on it, actually. And that drives a wedge between us that I wish wasn't there. Because of my background, I naturally tend towards a preservationist attitude. I am heavily invested in existing systems and that makes me view change askance. Because I look at men as venal animals, I'm always looking to see what the other guy has to gain. That colors my perceptions and I realize it.

Now, let me dissect the Catholic world I think I grew up in versus the one I think I live in today. There was no condoning homosexual relations (I'm not so naive as to think Curial queers are a new thing, but never before has the clergyman condoned the sin, nor have clergymen been permitted to openly defy Church teaching with impunity from public social media platforms.)

Confession was a rigorous experience, with the priest asking serious questions searching to see the gravity of the sin and the steps the penitent had taken to assume earthly responsibility for his mistakes. Now, my parish has set aside half an hour per week to the Sacrament and I'm accused of scrupulosity for believing masturbation is a sin. No matter. Sin doesn't exist and the whole congregation receives anyway, with only five or six of us freaks remaining behind.

Married priests were an anathema. Remember that word? It doesn't seem to exist anymore. Now it's proven men of a certain age. What the hell, let's have Protestant spouses receive the Body and Blood despite not believing in it. Keep those Church taxes flowing!

It very much seems to me that we're moving from no salvation outside the Church (an admittedly vague concept) to an idea that the Holy Spirit has moved upon society and it is the Church's responsibility to catch up, to deify the Golden Idol because that's what people are worshipping anyway.

There is nobody in the pews in a European church on a Sunday. In the US, there are precious few, and very few males of my age. It's become a feels good experience, and people stay home. In my youth, if Dad stayed home, Dad got a phone call. If it persisted, Dad got a visit. Now it's a shrug of the shoulders. Fatherless sons are left to the religious instruction of mothers of indifferent intellect.

Homilies indicate everybody goes to Heaven and Purgatory isn't mentioned because it's distasteful. No matter anyway. The vast majority of American Catholics don't believe in transubstantiation anyway. They're just going through the motions.

And that's where your emoji set me off, brother. Of all the things to pick out of that article, that's the point of contention? There's an institutionalized disregard of the poor backwards African prelates who just happen to have been properly catechized in favor of a new, anything goes except that embarrassingly old-fashioned rock of truth upon which our Church was built. Let's ignore them and mock the author's politics instead.

The Battle of Lepanto, which saw Catholic forces heaving the heretical Turk back from whence he came was a crowning achievement of western Christendom. Every frog should swim in its own pond. We sent missionaries to other ponds and didn't invite their missionaries into ours. We are reversing that now. One pond for all frogs. Well, any naturalist can tell you what happens when invasive species are introduced to your pond. In our case, you get Moslems treating the Coliseum like an outdoor Mosque.

And, in a world where the Church teaches humble submission to the will of the invited, invading theoretical guest, it is my opinion that you are not going to see their wholesale conversion to the one true Faith, but rather, fatherless sons looking for an ideal of manliness apostasizing to serve the Enemy. I think experience is bearing me out on this.

And that's where the "let's just agree that it's theoretically possible that everything will work out in a few centuries" argument leaves me absolutely cold. We are being invaded now. Evil is being actively preached to my children now. Duly consecrated Chinese bishops are disappearing now.

Professor Pangloss was wrong, Wos. We need to tend to our own garden.

-----------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR:

I %fracking hate emojis. :lol:
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:47 am

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:34 am
[...]

And that's where the "let's just agree that it's theoretically possible that everything will work out in a few centuries" argument leaves me absolutely cold. We are being invaded now. Evil is being actively preached to my children now. …

[…]
It's not a question of whether everything will "work out" or not.

It's that, if one needs to posit violating Social Justice in order to "save the nation" or to "save Western civilization" or whatnot, then the nation or Western civilization or whatnot ain't worth saving.

If that's really the choice, then it's time for the nation to go to the Cross. And whoever does not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:10 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:47 am
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:34 am
[...]

And that's where the "let's just agree that it's theoretically possible that everything will work out in a few centuries" argument leaves me absolutely cold. We are being invaded now. Evil is being actively preached to my children now. …

[…]
It's not a question of whether everything will "work out" or not.

It's that, if one needs to posit violating Social Justice in order to "save the nation" or to "save Western civilization" or whatnot, then the nation or Western civilization or whatnot ain't worth saving.

If that's the choice, then it's time for the nation to go to the Cross. And whoever does not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Sounds rather nihilistic, no?
The points Cardinal Sarah brings up are valid---the West is a brain drain for the third world, migrants must assimilate or be outcast, human trafficking is the new normal, the conditions which caused migration continue to exist and the health, safety and social order of both migrants and the citizenry suffer because of it when migrations reach the current levels.
That isn't social justice, but social suicide.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:27 am

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:10 am
wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:47 am
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:34 am
[...]

And that's where the "let's just agree that it's theoretically possible that everything will work out in a few centuries" argument leaves me absolutely cold. We are being invaded now. Evil is being actively preached to my children now. …

[…]
It's not a question of whether everything will "work out" or not.

It's that, if one needs to posit violating Social Justice in order to "save the nation" or to "save Western civilization" or whatnot, then the nation or Western civilization or whatnot ain't worth saving.

If that's the choice, then it's time for the nation to go to the Cross. And whoever does not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
[…]

The points Cardinal Sarah brings up are valid--- …
We (i.e. Hugo and I) were discussing the author.

Not Card. Sarah.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:43 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:27 am
+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:10 am
wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:47 am
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:34 am
[...]

And that's where the "let's just agree that it's theoretically possible that everything will work out in a few centuries" argument leaves me absolutely cold. We are being invaded now. Evil is being actively preached to my children now. …

[…]
It's not a question of whether everything will "work out" or not.

It's that, if one needs to posit violating Social Justice in order to "save the nation" or to "save Western civilization" or whatnot, then the nation or Western civilization or whatnot ain't worth saving.

If that's the choice, then it's time for the nation to go to the Cross. And whoever does not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
[…]

The points Cardinal Sarah brings up are valid--- …
We (i.e. Hugo and I) were discussing the author.

Not Card. Sarah.
I wondered if that was the opposing view, Wos. It's going to take me a moment to put my thoughts in order before I respond. It doesn't seem nihilistic to me, it seems suicidal.

And while I may be called to be a martyr, I am not called to be suicidal.

It appears that two opposing unalienable rights exist in opposition to each other, of equal truth and merit, namely: a) people have a right to migrate and b) people have a right to defend their lands.

There is a Christian balance to be struck, to be sure. But I'm having difficulty not seeing the view of Social Justice equals Christianity as fundamentally simplistic. The Church should teach me how to carry my cross, no? Why instead is it building one for me?
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:57 am

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:43 am
[…]

The Church should teach me how to carry my cross, no? Why instead is it building one for me?
You mean, "Why didn’t Jesus let the people make him king — so that he could fill their bellies and make everything groovy — instead of fleeing into the mountains?"

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:57 am
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:43 am
[…]

The Church should teach me how to carry my cross, no? Why instead is it building one for me?
You mean, "Why didn’t Jesus let the people make him king — so that he could fill their bellies and make everything groovy — instead of fleeing into the mountains?"
Perhaps it would be better phrased as "Why isn't Judas the greatest of our saints?"
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:20 am

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am
wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:57 am
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:43 am
[…]

The Church should teach me how to carry my cross, no? Why instead is it building one for me?
You mean, "Why didn’t Jesus let the people make him king — so that he could fill their bellies and make everything groovy — instead of fleeing into the mountains?"
Perhaps it would be better phrased as "Why isn't Judas the greatest of our saints?"
One needs to blame the builders of the Cross — those who force the false choice: "Either affirm Zero Tolerance (or, alternately, affirm Open Borders), or be branded an Enemy of the State/People" — rather than the Master who leads to it.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by hugodrax » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:41 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:20 am
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am
wosbald wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:57 am
hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:43 am
[…]

The Church should teach me how to carry my cross, no? Why instead is it building one for me?
You mean, "Why didn’t Jesus let the people make him king — so that he could fill their bellies and make everything groovy — instead of fleeing into the mountains?"
Perhaps it would be better phrased as "Why isn't Judas the greatest of our saints?"
One needs to blame the builders of the Cross — those who force the false choice: "Either affirm Zero Tolerance (or, alternately, affirm Open Borders), or be branded an Enemy of the State/People" — rather than the Master who leads to it.
One does indeed. Unfortunately, discerning the will of God is never easy. And when both the world and the Church confuse Christianity with a mere political movement it gets even worse.

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