THE CATHOLIC THREAD

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:12 pm

+JMJ-

French priest’s 150-year-old heart being worshipped in NYC
Image
Two women pray in front a container bearing the heart of St. John Vianney Saturday, April 6, 2019 at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. The 150-year-old heart of the French priest is being toured throughout the United States. The tradition of venerating the body parts of saintly Catholics goes back to the Middle Ages in Italy. (Credit: AP Photo/Julie Walker)

NEW YORK — The 150-year-old heart of a French priest is on a U.S. tour — a Roman Catholic relic with New York City as its latest stop.

It was on display Saturday at St. Patrick’s Cathedral on Fifth Avenue, where both the faithful and the curious lined up to see the human organ behind glass. The Knights of Columbus fraternity is sponsoring the pilgrimage of this heart, which has been to 28 states so far, with more coming up.

(The Knights of Columbus are a principal sponsor of Crux.)

Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the archbishop of New York, is to lead a Sunday procession venerating the heart of Saint John Vianney, who was a priest in the southern French town of Ars, outside Lyon. He lived during the French Revolution, helping to hide priests on the run.

The tradition of preserving the body parts of saintly Catholics goes back to the Middle Ages in Italy. When St. Catherine of Siena died in Rome, her hometown of Siena wanted her remains. But they didn’t want to get caught making off with the whole body, and decided to take just her head.

Vianney is considered the patron saint of parish priests, famed for hearing confessions for endless hours with an ear so understanding that he drew Catholics from all around Europe.

“He would also recount to them the sins they left out, because he instinctively felt who they are,” says Joseph Cullen, a member of the Knights of Columbus. “But he had a heart of gold.”

In the next week, Vianney’s heart will be displayed in schools and churches in other parts of New York City — Staten Island, Queens and Brooklyn — and Long Island, as well as other venues on the East Coast. The relic is to return to its permanent home at a French shrine in Ars in early June. The U.S. tour began in November.

[…]

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:28 am

hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:41 am

hugodrax wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am
Unfortunately, discerning the will of God is never easy. And when both the world and the Church confuse Christianity with a mere political movement it gets even worse.
Post of the day, right there!
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:30 pm

+JMJ+

Happy Dyngus Day!

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:26 pm

+JMJ+

Court sides with Philly against Catholic Social Services over same-sex parents in foster care
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(Credit: Pixabay)

Philadelphia city government can require that contractor Catholic Social Services does not discriminate against same-sex couples in its foster care program, a federal appeals court ruled Monday.

The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the city after it stopped placing children with the Archdiocese of Philadelphia’s agency because it would not permit same-sex couples to serve as foster parents.

The court ruled the city did not target the agency because of its religious beliefs but acted only to enforce its own nondiscrimination policy in the face of what seemed to be a clear violation.

“The city stands on firm ground in requiring its contractors to abide by its non-discrimination policies when administering public services,” wrote Circuit Court Judge Thomas Ambro for the three-judge panel.

Catholic Social Services sought an order requiring Philadelphia to renew its contract as a foster care agency and had argued the city’s actions violated the U.S. Constitution’s guarantee of the right to freely practice one’s religion.

The Washington, D.C.-based law firm that represents Catholic Social Services in the matter said the city’s policy has prevented dozens of families who want to take in children from doing so for nearly a year. Asked about a possible appeal, a spokesman said legal options were being reviewed.

“We’re disappointed that the court decided to let the city place politics above the needs of kids and the rights of parents, but we will continue this fight,” said Lori Windham, a lawyer for Catholic Social Services.

[…]

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:23 pm

We're installing a new Bishop on Thursday.
I'm one of the ushers but I'll be working in the parking lot.
It will be a full house with all the church dignitaries and my suggestion to take a second collection because it should be easy pickings didn't fly well with the staff.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Thu May 02, 2019 10:27 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:23 pm
We're installing a new Bishop on Thursday.
I'm one of the ushers but I'll be working in the parking lot.
It will be a full house with all the church dignitaries and my suggestion to take a second collection because it should be easy pickings didn't fly well with the staff.
A last minute switcheroo put me inside the church.
Mission accomplished anyway.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by DepartedLight » Sun May 05, 2019 8:44 pm

My Church has an Eucharistic Adoration Chapel. First visit late this afternoon.

I need to do this a lot more often.
DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by DepartedLight » Wed May 29, 2019 7:31 pm

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DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Fri May 31, 2019 7:21 pm

Our Lady of the Broken

"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Del » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:05 am

A Blessed Ascension Thursday Sunday to nearly all of you!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:07 pm

Del wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:05 am
A Blessed Ascension Thursday Sunday to nearly all of you!
Back at you! :thumbsup:
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:19 pm

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:07 pm
Del wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:05 am
A Blessed Ascension Thursday Sunday to nearly all of you!
Back at you! :thumbsup:

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by sweetandsour » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:12 pm
+JMJ-

French priest’s 150-year-old heart being worshipped in NYC
Image
Two women pray in front a container bearing the heart of St. John Vianney Saturday, April 6, 2019 at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. The 150-year-old heart of the French priest is being toured throughout the United States. The tradition of venerating the body parts of saintly Catholics goes back to the Middle Ages in Italy. (Credit: AP Photo/Julie Walker)

NEW YORK — The 150-year-old heart of a French priest is on a U.S. tour — a Roman Catholic relic with New York City as its latest stop.

It was on display Saturday at St. Patrick’s Cathedral on Fifth Avenue, where both the faithful and the curious lined up to see the human organ behind glass. The Knights of Columbus fraternity is sponsoring the pilgrimage of this heart, which has been to 28 states so far, with more coming up.

(The Knights of Columbus are a principal sponsor of Crux.)

Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the archbishop of New York, is to lead a Sunday procession venerating the heart of Saint John Vianney, who was a priest in the southern French town of Ars, outside Lyon. He lived during the French Revolution, helping to hide priests on the run.

The tradition of preserving the body parts of saintly Catholics goes back to the Middle Ages in Italy. When St. Catherine of Siena died in Rome, her hometown of Siena wanted her remains. But they didn’t want to get caught making off with the whole body, and decided to take just her head.

Vianney is considered the patron saint of parish priests, famed for hearing confessions for endless hours with an ear so understanding that he drew Catholics from all around Europe.

“He would also recount to them the sins they left out, because he instinctively felt who they are,” says Joseph Cullen, a member of the Knights of Columbus. “But he had a heart of gold.”

In the next week, Vianney’s heart will be displayed in schools and churches in other parts of New York City — Staten Island, Queens and Brooklyn — and Long Island, as well as other venues on the East Coast. The relic is to return to its permanent home at a French shrine in Ars in early June. The U.S. tour began in November.

[…]
Really? I know I'm trespassing in this thread, please forgive me. But I'm having trouble getting my arms around this, understanding-wise. Is this heart preserved somehow? Or cremated ashes, perhaps? What's the deal?
I'm old but I'm happy. (Most of the time.)

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:10 pm

sweetandsour wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:12 pm
+JMJ-

French priest’s 150-year-old heart being worshipped in NYC
Image
Two women pray in front a container bearing the heart of St. John Vianney Saturday, April 6, 2019 at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. The 150-year-old heart of the French priest is being toured throughout the United States. The tradition of venerating the body parts of saintly Catholics goes back to the Middle Ages in Italy. (Credit: AP Photo/Julie Walker)

NEW YORK — The 150-year-old heart of a French priest is on a U.S. tour — a Roman Catholic relic with New York City as its latest stop.

It was on display Saturday at St. Patrick’s Cathedral on Fifth Avenue, where both the faithful and the curious lined up to see the human organ behind glass. The Knights of Columbus fraternity is sponsoring the pilgrimage of this heart, which has been to 28 states so far, with more coming up.

(The Knights of Columbus are a principal sponsor of Crux.)

Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the archbishop of New York, is to lead a Sunday procession venerating the heart of Saint John Vianney, who was a priest in the southern French town of Ars, outside Lyon. He lived during the French Revolution, helping to hide priests on the run.

The tradition of preserving the body parts of saintly Catholics goes back to the Middle Ages in Italy. When St. Catherine of Siena died in Rome, her hometown of Siena wanted her remains. But they didn’t want to get caught making off with the whole body, and decided to take just her head.

Vianney is considered the patron saint of parish priests, famed for hearing confessions for endless hours with an ear so understanding that he drew Catholics from all around Europe.

“He would also recount to them the sins they left out, because he instinctively felt who they are,” says Joseph Cullen, a member of the Knights of Columbus. “But he had a heart of gold.”

In the next week, Vianney’s heart will be displayed in schools and churches in other parts of New York City — Staten Island, Queens and Brooklyn — and Long Island, as well as other venues on the East Coast. The relic is to return to its permanent home at a French shrine in Ars in early June. The U.S. tour began in November.

[…]
Really? I know I'm trespassing in this thread, please forgive me. But I'm having trouble getting my arms around this, understanding-wise. Is this heart preserved somehow? Or cremated ashes, perhaps? What's the deal?
One of the indications of Sainthood is that the body is incorruptible. It's not in a jar of formaldehyde or anything like that.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:56 am

Curious.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/pope-fran ... her-change

I'm not sure if this is a big fat nothingburger, or something significant.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:32 am

+JMJ+

Pope Francis: Our Father Should Say “Abandon Us Not When in Temptation” [Analysis, Opinion]
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(CC0 via pixabay)

The Our Father is a central Christian prayer. It is not originally in English but our English translation has changed over time. Last year, Pope Francis spoke about changing a translation currently used in Italian and English. The Italian bishops have proposed changing “lead us not into temptation” to “abandon us not when in temptation.” Many other languages have this, it is theologically accurate, and it is a good translation. I will cover this new development followed by what Francis said a year ago.

The Current Change

The UK Express reports on this proposal from the Italian Episcopal Conference (CEI) after 16 years of study.

[…]

Pope Francis’s Words on the Our Father

As noted at the end of that quotation, Pope Francis spoke about this a year ago on Italian television. I and a priest-friend both wrote about this point then.

The Our Father in Greek

I began by pointing out the Greek and what each word means.
Here’s the key line in Greek, just as St Matthew wrote it.

καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν

I know most of you probably don’t understand that. I post it so we can understand translation. First, some words have a pretty easy or direct translation.

καὶ = and

μὴ = negation which we translate as “not” although “do not” or similar would also work

ἡμᾶς = us

εἰς = in or into

However, two words are not so obvious and direct to translate.

εἰσενέγκῃς which we translate as “lead” comes from two words “into” and “to carry.” Strong’s — a top dictionary of Biblical Greek — defines it: to carry inward (literally or figuratively), bring (in), lead into.

πειρασμόν which we translate as “temptation” but some Bibles translate “trial” has a wide range of meanings. Strong’s has a long definition but here’s a summary: an experiment, attempt, trial, proving, an enticement to sin, or temptation. It has a wider meaning than just a temptation.

Thus, the same line could be translated different ways based on those definitions.
Current Our Father Translations

I also note that Spanish and French both have translations along the line the Pope proposes.

[…]

The Our Father in the Didache

A priest-friend of mine, Fr. Devin Rosa, LC, wrote on the importance of context in theology. His article is well worth a complete read, although it may seem a little theological and thick for some at times. I want to draw out two of his points. First, the Didache:

[…]

The Our Father in Spanish

Second, Fr. Rosa explains the history of Spanish translations of the Our Father:

[…]

Conclusion

So, we should welcome changes like saying “abandon us not when in temptation” or “don’t leave us to fall into temptation.” True the first few weeks, we will all struggle a bit with not saying, “lead us not into temptation” in the Our Father but there are numerous benefits. First, it will help a lot with catechesis. Second, it will clarify practice to prevent a possible theological error. Third, it will unify our translation with other languages as at least three of the main languages prayed by Catholics — Spanish, French and Italian — will now all translate it differently from English. We can remember God never tempts us or leads us into temptation.

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:52 pm

"Conclusion

So, we should welcome changes like saying “abandon us not when in temptation” or “don’t leave us to fall into temptation.” True the first few weeks, we will all struggle a bit with not saying, “lead us not into temptation” in the Our Father but there are numerous benefits. First, it will help a lot with catechesis. Second, it will clarify practice to prevent a possible theological error. Third, it will unify our translation with other languages as at least three of the main languages prayed by Catholics — Spanish, French and Italian — will now all translate it differently from English. We can remember God never tempts us or leads us into temptation."

SO it is a big fat nothingburger after all, since Catholics have already been correctly taught the meaning of the Our Father in infancy and the theologians are just playing Mister Obvious?
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by wosbald » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:10 pm

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:52 pm
[…]

SO it is a big fat nothingburger after all, since Catholics have already been correctly taught the meaning of the Our Father in infancy and the theologians are just playing Mister Obvious?
Seems to me you can thank Lifesite & Pals for it being made a somethingburger.

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:57 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:10 pm
+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:52 pm
[…]
Then it is a big fat nothingburger after all, since Catholics have already been correctly taught the meaning of the Our Father in infancy and the theologians are just playing Mister Obvious?
Seems to me you can thank Lifesite & Pals for it being made a somethingburger.
How so? The words change but the intended meaning remains constant---I suppose it would satisfy the lawyers.
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Re: THE CATHOLIC THREAD

Post by Hovannes » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:15 am

Two of my nieces having their First Communion this afternoon! :D
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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