Though that's my attitude as well, it's not very helpful when talking to those who insist that the early Christians were clueless or syncretized the solstice.jo533281 wrote:Right or wrong, I still shrug my shoulders and go to liturgy Christmas morning.wosbald wrote:The point is that this school of thought says that Christ was born in something like Sept-Oct.jo533281 wrote:I have heard priests and bishops talk about this very thing: that Christ was not born on Christmas day. Does anyone really care? I mean, the traditional date for Christ's crucifixion is March 25th, and yet Easter is a variable feast that changes every year. I could care less (that was for you, UB ) if it is the real date or not. It is about the birth of the Savior, not just in time, historically, but in us, continually. I have no preference either for the old calendar (January 6th) or the new calendar celebration except that on the old calendar I can celebrate Christmas outside the normal secular garbage that takes place on the 25th. Not sure what exactly you wanted here Wos. Just my 2 cents.wosbald wrote:Bump for the Orthos. Anybody? Bueller?wosbald wrote:A buddy of mine (some variety of "Messianic Christian") sent me the following. I'm not particularly versed in this subject matter, but I was wondering what others might have to say about it...
Armenian Apostolic and Eastern Orthodox Christians, unlike Protestants, do not celebrate the birth of Yeshua HaMashiach on December 25th, due to differences between the Armenian, Julian and Gregorian calendars.
The Tanakh (Jewish Scriptures), however, doesn't identify the month in which the Messiah would be born, nor does the Brit Chadashah (New Testament) identify the exact date of His birth.
Scripture does give us an indication of the time of year.
“I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord." (Luke 2:10-11)
When was the Messiah Born?
“And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night.” (Luke 2:8 )
Although Christmas is a well-established Christian tradition, Bible scholars know that December 25th is not the true date of Yeshua’s birth.
Winter in Israel is generally too cold at night to be out shepherding flocks, and yet at the time of Yeshua’s birth, the shepherds were in the fields watching over their flocks at night.
This December in Jerusalem, the temperature has been averaging about 60 degrees Fahrenheit, with the temperature dropping below 50 at night.
While the men in our ministry can get away with wearing short sleeve shirts for part of the day, around 4 p.m. as the sun goes down, it becomes quite cold, and they need to put on a warm jacket.
Another point to consider when trying to determine the time of year that Yeshua (Jesus) was born is the fact that winter in Israel is not a logical time to take a census because of the cold and rain. Occasionally, it even snows in Jerusalem. So the fact that Yoseph (Joseph) and Miriam (Mary) had gone to Beit Lechem (Bethlehem) to register for a census is a good indication that they were traveling in a warmer, drier season (Luke 2:1-5).
When they arrived, Jerusalem and Bethlehem were so crowded that no accommodations were available at the inn. Such crowding would have been more typical during one of the three pilgrimage feasts: Pesach (Passover), Shavuot (Pentecost) or Sukkot (Tabernacles/Booths).
“While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them.” (Luke 2:6-7)
Likely, Yeshua was born at the end of the harvest, during the Biblical holiday of Sukkot, fulfilling the Scripture that one day the Lord would ‘tabernacle’ will His people. (Ezekiel 37:27)
“Look! God’s dwelling is now among the people, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.” (Revelation 21:3)
Just looking for extra info, if anyone has any.