THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

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Thunktank
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Post by Thunktank » Sat May 17, 2014 4:16 pm

Kerdy wrote:
OldWorldSwine wrote:Patriarch to meet Pope in Jerusalem!

http://eu.greekreporter.com/2014/05/09/ ... hisms-end/
Orthodox the world over are sharpening their pitch forks and fueling their torches.
I doubt that very much. You spend too much time on the internet where a small vocal minority (half of whom are likely former Evangelicals and new to the Orthodox faith) like to sharpen their pitchforks and fuel their torches. More Orthodox probably don't worry about it much at all, much like the rank and file Roman Catholics. Yet still others are in fact very interested in building bridges with other Christians. I don't know how we as Orthodox can possible justify being closed off to such opportunity under these circumstances.
Last edited by Thunktank on Sat May 17, 2014 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Thunktank » Sat May 17, 2014 4:23 pm

Kerdy wrote:
Del wrote:
Thunktank wrote:I watch EWTN sometimes. A few worthwhile programs to watch. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that far too often when the Orthodox are mentioned on that network it's often filled with misinformation. Then there are times I end up feeling down right depressed after watching EWTN because someone flat out disrespects Orthodoxy in some form or another. I shouldn't be surprised and I know the Orthodox can be guilty of this against the Catholic Church and practice as well. But I guess I'm just starting to come to grips that the schism will never end. Most probably already know this but I guess I've been hoping. But, when I hear Catholics on EWTN talk about certain things in opposition to the Orthodox I can't help but think that the Catholics have a fundamentally different spirit. Reunion is hopeless.

Last night I watched a program where a priest or bishop (not sure which) was brought in to discuss possible changes in the way the Catholic Church may deal with Catholics who divorced and remarried. There was discussion that perhaps there ought to be some way to allow those people to return to taking the Eucharist again at some point. The host of the show brought up the fact that some Catholics were looking to the Orthodox for a solution to this problem. The clergyman obviously made some gesture that the host easily identified as disapproval, the host laughed as though the very idea was preposterous in agreement with his guest speaker. Then they went on and complained that to take Orthodox ideas seriously would mean that they would need to accept "different kinds of marriage." But for me, the icing on the cake to this whole conversation was that they were quite serious about streamlining the annulment process and broadening the definition of an invalid marriage. <redacted_emoji> :facepalm:

Seriously! :x
I didn't see this, but I has the sad :(

I am not familiar with the Orthodox canon law concerning valid and invalid marriage. I am quite certain that no one has explained to me what details of Orthodox law are problematic.

I know the problems that are found in Roman Canon Law.

I know that there are people who want us to dispense with canonical form. Instead of determining whether the sacrament was invalid, they want to us ignore the original marriage and divorce for "pastoral" reasons -- which really aren't "reasons" at all, just sentiments and arbitrary choices.

People want an easy way to ignore Jesus' firm teaching about marriage. (Today's reading, as luck has it!)
The Orthodox Church is much more relaxed with marriage than the Catholic Church in many ways. Divorce and remarriage being one of them. Each has its own issues to work through.
Actually the Orthodox Church doesn't have an issue with marriage anymore than can be expected because of our position in the world dealing with sinners. Neither are we "relaxed" about marriage at all. In fact, we have maintained requirements that Orthodox Christians must marry other baptized Christians in the Orthodox Church. Where are you coming up with this, kerdy? Some Orthodox Christians do fall into sin and divorce, yes. The same is true of Roman Catholics. But the last time I checked, Orthodox and Catholic married couples had nearly identical divorce rates in comparison to each other in this country.
Last edited by Thunktank on Sat May 17, 2014 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Thunktank » Sat May 17, 2014 4:28 pm

"If you only knew how great a blessing comes from the Divine Liturgy,
then you would collect even the dust from the floor of the church
to wash your faces with it..."

-St.Gabriel the Confessor and Fool for Christ

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Post by Thunktank » Sat May 17, 2014 5:07 pm

By the way. The Orthodox Church DOES NOT create a condition of divorce. It does not terminate any marriage. It has no authority to do so. What it does do is recognize that a "marriage" does not function as a marriage and therefore cannot be considered an operating marriage due to sin from lack or some other cause. Hmmmm, sounds kinda of like the RCC annulment process doesn't it? :wink:

How the word "divorce" is associated with the Orthodox has more to with the church's role in relation to civil divorce. It is not a word the church created for it's own use.

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Post by Kerdy » Sat May 17, 2014 5:52 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
OldWorldSwine wrote:Patriarch to meet Pope in Jerusalem!

http://eu.greekreporter.com/2014/05/09/ ... hisms-end/
Orthodox the world over are sharpening their pitch forks and fueling their torches.
I doubt that very much. You spend too much time on the internet where a small vocal minority (half of whom are likely former Evangelicals and new to the Orthodox faith) like to sharpen their pitchforks and fuel their torches. More Orthodox probably don't worry about it much at all, much like the rank and file Roman Catholics. Yet still others are in fact very interested in building bridges with other Christians. I don't know how we as Orthodox can possible justify being closed off to such opportunity under these circumstances.
I don't either, but far too many do. It makes no sense, but that is the world in which we live. I should not have posted that here. No one here has provoked a reply like that. A moment of weakness. But, I for one applaud the efforts from the Pope and EP. I think their work is awesome sauce!
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Post by Kerdy » Sat May 17, 2014 5:55 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
Del wrote:
Thunktank wrote:I watch EWTN sometimes. A few worthwhile programs to watch. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that far too often when the Orthodox are mentioned on that network it's often filled with misinformation. Then there are times I end up feeling down right depressed after watching EWTN because someone flat out disrespects Orthodoxy in some form or another. I shouldn't be surprised and I know the Orthodox can be guilty of this against the Catholic Church and practice as well. But I guess I'm just starting to come to grips that the schism will never end. Most probably already know this but I guess I've been hoping. But, when I hear Catholics on EWTN talk about certain things in opposition to the Orthodox I can't help but think that the Catholics have a fundamentally different spirit. Reunion is hopeless.

Last night I watched a program where a priest or bishop (not sure which) was brought in to discuss possible changes in the way the Catholic Church may deal with Catholics who divorced and remarried. There was discussion that perhaps there ought to be some way to allow those people to return to taking the Eucharist again at some point. The host of the show brought up the fact that some Catholics were looking to the Orthodox for a solution to this problem. The clergyman obviously made some gesture that the host easily identified as disapproval, the host laughed as though the very idea was preposterous in agreement with his guest speaker. Then they went on and complained that to take Orthodox ideas seriously would mean that they would need to accept "different kinds of marriage." But for me, the icing on the cake to this whole conversation was that they were quite serious about streamlining the annulment process and broadening the definition of an invalid marriage. <redacted_emoji> :facepalm:

Seriously! :x
I didn't see this, but I has the sad :(

I am not familiar with the Orthodox canon law concerning valid and invalid marriage. I am quite certain that no one has explained to me what details of Orthodox law are problematic.

I know the problems that are found in Roman Canon Law.

I know that there are people who want us to dispense with canonical form. Instead of determining whether the sacrament was invalid, they want to us ignore the original marriage and divorce for "pastoral" reasons -- which really aren't "reasons" at all, just sentiments and arbitrary choices.

People want an easy way to ignore Jesus' firm teaching about marriage. (Today's reading, as luck has it!)
The Orthodox Church is much more relaxed with marriage than the Catholic Church in many ways. Divorce and remarriage being one of them. Each has its own issues to work through.
Actually the Orthodox Church doesn't have an issue with marriage anymore than can be expected because of our position in the world dealing with sinners. Neither are we "relaxed" about marriage at all. In fact, we have maintained requirements that Orthodox Christians must marry other baptized Christians in the Orthodox Church. Where are you coming up with this, kerdy? Some Orthodox Christians do fall into sin and divorce, yes. The same is true of Roman Catholics. But the last time I checked, Orthodox and Catholic married couples had nearly identical divorce rates in comparison to each other in this country.
I wasn't clear. Apologies. I meant permissiveness of divorce and remarriage is more lenient than the Catholic Church allowing up to, I think, three marriages. Its been awhile since I looked it up, but if I am wrong I have no problem admitting it. Could you PM the info to me if you find it? I don't want to drag the thread down. Again, I shouldn't have contributed here. I have been trying not to get in the mix here like I used to all the time. It isn't easy.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Post by Kerdy » Sat May 17, 2014 5:57 pm

Thunktank wrote:By the way. The Orthodox Church DOES NOT create a condition of divorce. It does not terminate any marriage. It has no authority to do so. What it does do is recognize that a "marriage" does not function as a marriage and therefore cannot be considered an operating marriage due to sin from lack or some other cause. Hmmmm, sounds kinda of like the RCC annulment process doesn't it? :wink:
What you describe does sound a lot like what the Catholic Church exercises.

More similar than different, right? People may be able to learn something from the Pope and EP.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by colton » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:38 am

I just posted a bunch of pictures from a recent youth church camp over at my parish's Facebook page, but I wanted to share this one. Mass at 9,700 feet:

Image

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by TNLawPiper » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:05 pm

Blessed Solemnity of All Saints to you and yours. Let us thank God for our eternal communion!

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by Thoth » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:49 pm

History made, as Anglicans, Oriental Orthodox agree on Christ's incarnation

Not as sanguine as the article headline but it is a good step and hopefully this strikes a blow to the J.S. Spong-ilk in the Anglican church.
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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by Skip » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:00 pm

colton wrote:I just posted a bunch of pictures from a recent youth church camp over at my parish's Facebook page, but I wanted to share this one. Mass at 9,700 feet:

Image
I missed this the first time around. How does this outdoor structure fit into the cathanglodox outdoor structure taxonomy?
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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:01 am

+JMJ+

Exclusive: Christ's Burial Place Exposed for First Time in Centuries
Image


JERUSALEM, ISRAEL — For the first time in centuries, scientists have exposed the original surface of what is traditionally considered the tomb of Jesus Christ. Located in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City of Jerusalem, the tomb has been covered by marble cladding since at least 1555 A.D., and most likely centuries earlier.

"The marble covering of the tomb has been pulled back, and we were surprised by the amount of fill material beneath it,” said Fredrik Hiebert, archaeologist-in-residence at the National Geographic Society, a partner in the restoration project. “It will be a long scientific analysis, but we will finally be able to see the original rock surface on which, according to tradition, the body of Christ was laid."

[…]

This burial shelf is now enclosed by a small structure known as the Edicule (from the Latin aedicule, or "little house"), which was last reconstructed in 1808-1810 after being destroyed in a fire. The Edicule and the interior tomb are currently undergoing restoration by a team of scientists from the National Technical University of Athens, under the direction of Chief Scientific Supervisor Professor Antonia Moropoulou.

The exposure of the burial bed is giving researchers an unprecedented opportunity to study the original surface of what is considered the most sacred site in Christianity. An analysis of the original rock may enable them to better understand not only the original form of the tomb chamber, but also how it evolved as the focal point of veneration since it was first identified by Helena, mother of the Roman emperor Constantine, in A.D. 326.

"We are at the critical moment for rehabilitating the Edicule," Moropoulou said. "The techniques we're using to document this unique monument will enable the world to study our findings as if they themselves were in the tomb of Christ."

[…]

The Church of the Holy Sepulchre (also known as the Church of the Resurrection) is currently under the custody of six Christian sects. Three major groups—the Greek Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Armenian Orthodox Church—maintain primary control over the site, and the Coptic, Ethiopian Orthodox, and Syriac communities also have a presence there. Parts of the church that are considered common areas of worship for all of the sects, including the tomb, are regulated by a Status Quo agreement that requires the consent of all of the custodial churches. …

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by wosbald » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:31 am

+JMJ+

Pope, Patriarch: ‘Cry of the earth’ and cry of the poor are one voice
Image
Pope Francis and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople after delivering a blessing in Istanbul in 2014. (Credit: CNS/Paul Haring.)

Pope Francis and Patriarch Bartholomew released a joint statement to mark the World Day of Prayer for the Care of Creation on Sept. 1. They both say that they’re convinced there’s no sincere and enduring solution to the ongoing ecological crisis unless “the response is concerted and collective, unless the responsibility is shared and accountable, unless we give priority to solidarity and service.”

ROME - In a joint statement from Pope Francis and Patriarch Bartholomew to mark the World Day of Prayer for the Care of Creation on Sept. 1, the two said that what’s happening in the world today reveals a “morally decaying scenario, where our attitude and behavior towards creation obscures our calling as God’s co-operators.”

They call on those “in positions of social and economic, as well as political and cultural, responsibility to hear the cry of the earth, and to attend to the needs of the marginalized.”

Those leaders, Francis and Bartholomew write, are called to “respond to the plea” of millions, and support “the consensus of the world for the healing of our wounded creation.”

One point stressed by Francis and Bartholomew is that care for the environment, and care for the poor, are inextricably linked. …

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by Del » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:11 am

This bit:
“We no longer respect nature as a shared gift; instead, we regard it as a private possession. We no longer associate with nature in order to sustain it; instead, we lord over it to support our own constructs,” the leaders write.
This is the problem. Not just the natural environment. We also treat natural realities like our bodies, our gender, our children, our marriages and families -- as if they are objects that we can own, use, consume, and discard at will.

And thus, these natural matters that should be protected for our common good become political footballs. We kick them around.

The environment suffers because we abuse it for our pleasure.
The poor suffer because we can find no way to consume them for profit.


We are missing the courage to sacrifice and give of ourselves to help the poor, or guard our culture, or care for the environment.
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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by wosbald » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:09 am

+JMJ+

Coptic abbot's murder points to strains over ecumenism in Egypt [In-Depth]
Image
Pope Tawadros II, right, presides over the funeral of Bishop Anba Epiphanius at St. Macarius Monastery on July 31 in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt. (Photo courtesy US-International Coptic Media Center)

Cairo — The Coptic Orthodox community in Egypt is reeling from the recent murder of the abbot of St. Macarius Monastery, apparently by traditionalists of his own faith, in the fourth-century center of meditation and scholarship 60 miles northwest of Cairo.

The victim, Bishop Anba Epiphanius, 64, was the point man in efforts by the Coptic pope, Tawadros II, to reconcile their church with the Vatican. The two popes, Roman and Coptic, had explored steps toward mutual recognition of baptism rituals, pilgrimage sites and even reconciling their liturgical calendars.

On July 29, Epiphanius died from a blow to the head with a sharp object.

Investigators obtained a confession from 34-year-old monk Wael Saad after another member of the order, Remon Ramsi Mansour, 33, attempted suicide by slitting his wrists and throwing himself from the highest building in the monastery.

Both now face trial on Sept. 23 for killing Epiphanius.

[…]

The Vatican reacted to the jihadist attacks [by Egypt's Islamic State equivalent] by approaching Tawadros with renewed gestures of solidarity, culminating in Pope Francis' 2017 visit to Cairo and Egypt's Catholic community, estimated to be as many as 200,000 people. Copts, an ancient Christian sect, are thought to make up 10 to 15 percent of Egypt's nearly 100 million people.

Image
Bishop Anba Epiphanius (Photo courtesy US-International Coptic Media Center)

During that visit, the Coptic Church said it would not require Catholics who married into their church to be rebaptized as Coptic Orthodox. The two churches also opened discussions of accepting Dec. 25 as Christmas instead of using the older Gregorian calendar to determine church holidays.

[…]

But traditionalists criticized Tawadros and Epiphanius, a theologian respected for his Arabic translations of early Christian sources written in ancient Greek and the pre-Islamic Coptic language, for the change.

Many Copts reject the concept of unity, and haven't been shy about expressing their sentiments on the Facebook page of the "Association of Faith Protectors," a group that emerged in opposition to Tawadros' reforms.

"The so-called protectors began to establish online militias to attack, harass and accuse the pope and his allies of heresy," said Ayman Erian, a Coptic researcher for the Institute of Development Studies at the University of Sussex in England.

[…]

Image
St. Macarius Monastery in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt. (Photo by Berthold Werner/Creative Commons)

"According to the monks, there were conflicts with the abbot," said Amir Nassif, who resigned as Saad's lawyer after the police confession was made public. ("The devil controlled the monk," Nassif said, explaining his resignation. "It's impossible for me to participate in the killing of Bishop Epiphanius.")

Saad has been stripped of his monastic name of Isaiah. But church authorities have yet to banish his alleged accomplice Ramsy, known as Faltaous, from holy orders.

"Bishop Epiphanius posed a threat to the traditionalists after he used manuscripts from St. Macarius Monastery to prove that the Egyptian Church did not rebaptize Catholics until the 19th century," said Bassem Al-Janoubie, a liberal Coptic activist.

Four months before the murder, hard-line monks and other traditionalists began to criticize Epiphanius after the abbot told a Cairo conference on Middle East Christianity that the rebaptism requirement was a relic of competition between the Roman and Egyptian Orthodox churches that only started when European Catholic missionaries arrived in the 1800s.

In late July, Saad had been disciplined before Epiphanius' murder for improper use of social media, but was not suspended from orders, however, after a group of monks peers signed a petition opposing his removal.

Image
The funeral procession of Bishop Anba Epiphanius at St. Macarius Monastery on July 31 in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt. (Photo courtesy US-International Coptic Media Center)

In the immediate aftermath of the murder, Tawadros II ordered monks to deactivate all social media accounts.

"These behaviors are not true to monastic life," said Tawadros, who also imposed a yearlong suspension on taking in new monks.

Meanwhile, Copts are mourning the loss of an important theologian.

"They are against the pope and fear the project of unity with other churches," said Erian, the Coptic Cairo researcher. "But I say that there is no one in our Holy Synod to compare to Epiphanius in terms of knowledge and piousness. His passing is a great loss to the church."

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by TNLawPiper » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:14 am

Del wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:11 am
This bit:
“We no longer respect nature as a shared gift; instead, we regard it as a private possession. We no longer associate with nature in order to sustain it; instead, we lord over it to support our own constructs,” the leaders write.
This is the problem. Not just the natural environment. We also treat natural realities like our bodies, our gender, our children, our marriages and families -- as if they are objects that we can own, use, consume, and discard at will.

And thus, these natural matters that should be protected for our common good become political footballs. We kick them around.

The environment suffers because we abuse it for our pleasure.
The poor suffer because we can find no way to consume them for profit.


We are missing the courage to sacrifice and give of ourselves to help the poor, or guard our culture, or care for the environment.
+1

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by Thoth » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:56 pm

wosbald wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:09 am
+JMJ+

Coptic abbot's murder points to strains over ecumenism in Egypt [In-Depth]
Image
Pope Tawadros II, right, presides over the funeral of Bishop Anba Epiphanius at St. Macarius Monastery on July 31 in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt. (Photo courtesy US-International Coptic Media Center)

Cairo — The Coptic Orthodox community in Egypt is reeling from the recent murder of the abbot of St. Macarius Monastery, apparently by traditionalists of his own faith, in the fourth-century center of meditation and scholarship 60 miles northwest of Cairo.

The victim, Bishop Anba Epiphanius, 64, was the point man in efforts by the Coptic pope, Tawadros II, to reconcile their church with the Vatican. The two popes, Roman and Coptic, had explored steps toward mutual recognition of baptism rituals, pilgrimage sites and even reconciling their liturgical calendars.

On July 29, Epiphanius died from a blow to the head with a sharp object.

Investigators obtained a confession from 34-year-old monk Wael Saad after another member of the order, Remon Ramsi Mansour, 33, attempted suicide by slitting his wrists and throwing himself from the highest building in the monastery.

Both now face trial on Sept. 23 for killing Epiphanius.

[…]

The Vatican reacted to the jihadist attacks [by Egypt's Islamic State equivalent] by approaching Tawadros with renewed gestures of solidarity, culminating in Pope Francis' 2017 visit to Cairo and Egypt's Catholic community, estimated to be as many as 200,000 people. Copts, an ancient Christian sect, are thought to make up 10 to 15 percent of Egypt's nearly 100 million people.

Image
Bishop Anba Epiphanius (Photo courtesy US-International Coptic Media Center)

During that visit, the Coptic Church said it would not require Catholics who married into their church to be rebaptized as Coptic Orthodox. The two churches also opened discussions of accepting Dec. 25 as Christmas instead of using the older Gregorian calendar to determine church holidays.

[…]

But traditionalists criticized Tawadros and Epiphanius, a theologian respected for his Arabic translations of early Christian sources written in ancient Greek and the pre-Islamic Coptic language, for the change.

Many Copts reject the concept of unity, and haven't been shy about expressing their sentiments on the Facebook page of the "Association of Faith Protectors," a group that emerged in opposition to Tawadros' reforms.

"The so-called protectors began to establish online militias to attack, harass and accuse the pope and his allies of heresy," said Ayman Erian, a Coptic researcher for the Institute of Development Studies at the University of Sussex in England.

[…]

Image
St. Macarius Monastery in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt. (Photo by Berthold Werner/Creative Commons)

"According to the monks, there were conflicts with the abbot," said Amir Nassif, who resigned as Saad's lawyer after the police confession was made public. ("The devil controlled the monk," Nassif said, explaining his resignation. "It's impossible for me to participate in the killing of Bishop Epiphanius.")

Saad has been stripped of his monastic name of Isaiah. But church authorities have yet to banish his alleged accomplice Ramsy, known as Faltaous, from holy orders.

"Bishop Epiphanius posed a threat to the traditionalists after he used manuscripts from St. Macarius Monastery to prove that the Egyptian Church did not rebaptize Catholics until the 19th century," said Bassem Al-Janoubie, a liberal Coptic activist.

Four months before the murder, hard-line monks and other traditionalists began to criticize Epiphanius after the abbot told a Cairo conference on Middle East Christianity that the rebaptism requirement was a relic of competition between the Roman and Egyptian Orthodox churches that only started when European Catholic missionaries arrived in the 1800s.

In late July, Saad had been disciplined before Epiphanius' murder for improper use of social media, but was not suspended from orders, however, after a group of monks peers signed a petition opposing his removal.

Image
The funeral procession of Bishop Anba Epiphanius at St. Macarius Monastery on July 31 in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt. (Photo courtesy US-International Coptic Media Center)

In the immediate aftermath of the murder, Tawadros II ordered monks to deactivate all social media accounts.

"These behaviors are not true to monastic life," said Tawadros, who also imposed a yearlong suspension on taking in new monks.

Meanwhile, Copts are mourning the loss of an important theologian.

"They are against the pope and fear the project of unity with other churches," said Erian, the Coptic Cairo researcher. "But I say that there is no one in our Holy Synod to compare to Epiphanius in terms of knowledge and piousness. His passing is a great loss to the church."
Nope thats not reason. Its a nice story but not the truth or the whole truth of to the treason why the bishop was murdered. And the article keeps referring to traditionlist actually they're an extreme fringe group... real traditionalists in the church had an appreciation for H.G. Bishop Epiphnius' scholarship. There's a lot of internal politics and not inclined to air dirty laundry publicly.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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wosbald
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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by wosbald » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:39 am

+JMJ+

Eastern Europe's Catholics steer through inter-Orthodox feud [In-Depth]
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Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and other religious leaders arrive at the Basilica of St. Nicholas in Bari, Italy, July 7. Pope Francis is met Christian leaders for an ecumenical day of prayer for peace in the Middle East. (CNS/Paul Haring)

Warsaw, Poland — As the Orthodox ecumenical patriarch goes ahead with plans to recognize an independent church in Ukraine, despite harsh Russian reactions, Catholic Church leaders across Europe have been keeping their distance from the inter-Orthodox row.

Prominent lay Catholics concede, however, that the conflict could have significant regional consequences, as well as raise questions about future Catholic-Orthodox relations.

"Strictly speaking this isn't really a conflict — the ecumenical patriarch is fulfilling his canonical duties in recognizing an independent church, and the Russian Orthodox are contesting this," said Marcin Przeciszewski, director of KAI, the Polish church's Catholic information agency. "Of course, this isn't a matter for our church or the Vatican, and they won't issue statements about it. But Catholics in countries like ours naturally want Ukraine to be fully sovereign, and it won't be as long as part of its church remains dependent on Russia's Moscow Patriarchate."

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Ukranian Orthodox Patriarch Filaret Denisenko, 2015 (CNS/Tyler Orsburn)

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A man stands in front his damaged house after shelling March 24, 2016, in the Ukrainian town of Makeevka. (CNS/EPA/Alexander Ermochenko)

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Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow in Havana Feb. 12, 2016. (CNS/Paul Haring)

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(CNS/The Catholic Spirit/Marlo Williamson)

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People arrive for a liturgy May 21, 2017, at then-new Ukrainian Catholic parish in Odessa, Ukraine. "We dreamed of a golden-domed church," said Bishop Mykhaylo Bubniy of Odessa, whose parishioners waited decades for the new building. (CNS/Mariana Karapinka)

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by Thunktank » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:43 am

We'll certainly face difficulties in our future contacts," Khroul told NCR. "But perhaps some Orthodox will also look at the Catholic Church more favorably now, seeing how its own internal unity, even with various rites and traditions, contrasts with the deep conflicts now occurring between their own churches." 
I know it played a part in this Orthodox Christian's embrace of the Papacy. Virtually every schism concerning the Orthodox, whether between themselves or the Catholics had been heavily influenced by temporal powers and interests. They often cloak it in some sort of theological or canonical dispute, but the trouble remains, they forget the dignity of St Peter's office and the apostolic fidelity thereof. So now, even the Ecumenical Patriarch (who stands without Peter's office) stands to be pushed aside by Russian interests. I really hope more Orthodox come back to their senses and find the memory of a United Christendom.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

Post by durangopipe » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:55 am

Thunktank wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:43 am
I really hope more Orthodox come back to their senses and find the memory of a United Christendom.
Orthodox Christians
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