THE CATHANGLODOX THREAD

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Post by wosbald » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:16 am

+JMJ+
Brigid wrote:I do notice as I read the Christian Thread instead of making breakfast or heaven forbid doing something useful with my time the presumption of a Protestant outlook. However, I feel that the appropriate response would have been to say, "For the record, this is not an Orthodox viewpoint and therefore isn't in keeping with the thread. Please PM me or start a thread for more discussion."
They certainly didn't say "Please leave so we can have a proper discussion."
As I thought I made clear earlier, they are welcome to stay as respectful guests. But barring that, they should stay out.

Yes, saying "this is out-of-bounds for this thread, please PM someone or start a new thread..." for the thread is an acceptable way to deal with the issue. In fact, I suggested essentially that when I pleaded for us all to give this thread some room to develop organically along CAO-lines.
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Post by Brigid » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:23 am

In that quote I was referring to the Christian Thread. There was a kerfuffle when person A posted something that presumed a Protestant view on the Resurrection and there was a question about whether a hymn to the Theotokos would be welcome.

While I don't feel that we should have to justify our paradigm, I also have no problem with explaining something. Anything in-depth question should become a new thread, but...

I'm tired. This isn't much fun.

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Post by jo533281 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:49 am

Brigid wrote:In that quote I was referring to the Christian Thread. There was a kerfuffle when person A posted something that presumed a Protestant view on the Resurrection and there was a question about whether a hymn to the Theotokos would be welcome.

While I don't feel that we should have to justify our paradigm, I also have no problem with explaining something. Anything in-depth question should become a new thread, but...

I'm tired. This isn't much fun.
Yes, that was my response that was, as Thoth put it, a round about way of making a point. Probably not the best way, in hind sight.

Indeed. It aint much fun. We've had, what, 5 pages and one post about the new Patriarch of Alexandria? Oh, and a follow up by Pope Benedict from Aaron. Wonderful contributions, mind you. But 2... :cry:
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Post by tuttle » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:52 am

Thunktank wrote:Oh dear, we have fallen into tuttle's trap.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA :twisted:

but seriously, I wasn't setting a trap as much as I just wanted to voice my concerns about the term Cathanglodox and I figured it would be best voiced in the Cathanglodox Thread. I guess I was wrong. Perhaps I should be Pope-slapped.

Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
















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Post by wosbald » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:03 am

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
The best way to find out is to sit back and watch and let the thread develop along CAO lines. One can only imagine that issue is bound to come up now and again between the Cathanglodox. You can find out how the issue is handled as the thread develops. It will be exciting.

The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last.
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Post by Del » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:08 am

tuttle wrote:Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
The Roman pontiff is the Bishop of Rome and the successor of St. Peter.

We are all defined, in part, by our state of communion or lack thereof with the See of Peter.

And we still have an acute awareness of the prayer of Jesus, that all of His Apostles (and their successors) should be one in unity. This prayer of Jesus is frustrated by our long dispute over the scope and meaning of the specific authority that Jesus gave to Peter.
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Post by Thunktank » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:30 am

gaining_age wrote:
Thunktank wrote:Oh dear, we have fallen into tuttle's trap. This thread should have been clearly understood by all those here that it was meant to be of interest to Orthodox, Catholics and traditional minded Anglicans. We all understood and respected the Orthodox, Catholic and Christian threads. It took a few pages for us to respect the purpose of the Christian thread sure enough, but in the end we did. I suggest we do the same here. Let's just be honest and admit that a line in the sand does exist between the Cathanglodox and Protestant communities.

At the same time, I still wonder just how wise this thread is to begin with. I've seen way too many Catholics and Orthodox act unilatterally toward each other which all too often leads to deeper schism instead of the healing of it.

Sincerely,
Steve

Seriously, Steve, I think the Cathanglodox REALLY missed the point of the Christian thread and that is sad.

First message in the CHRISTIAN thread:
COG wrote:A thread of open Christian brotherly affection; keeping all posts positive and in The LORD; providing a daily salting of all-walks applicable words of encouragement from God's Word from any and all.

The only hard and fast rule is that all content be entirely agreeable with all distinctives; that no content be disagreeable to anyone from a particular distinctive.

There's an entire forum of many threads for discussing differences.

This is one thread for unifying similarities .
It is surprising to me how the Cathanglodox avoid the thread and have no words of encouragement to share (or very little -- practically none).

I post to the thread to be encouraging-- and keep it active. Maybe I'm one of the main contributors because I see encouragement as a BIG deal.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, Gary. I know this is what you really want to see in that thread and I know you're genuine in that. Of course, we must not forget that that which encourages an Orthodox Christian (such as a hymn to the Theotokos) is hated by many Protestants. The Orthodox can participate in that thread, sure. But we will need to do so as though we're walking on pins and needles because we need to filter everything out that might offend a Protestant.
gainingage wrote:Separatism in the face of Christ's call to unity in John is heaviness to me. That's where the separatism begins to look judgmental -- "we're not you and we're more 'the church' than you". I did look up the Orthodox ecclesial definition and I generally liked it-- perhaps I'm not the audience jo##s was referring to would be offended.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/kalomiros.aspx

Seems like the Orthodox ecclesial view of the church is in line with what COG meant with the CHRISTIAN thread. Ponder that....

G.
Have you read the various other articles on that web page? How about even a few more of them? Trust me, you don't agree with the purpose of that organization. I don't either and I'm Orthodox. There is a small, vocal minority of "Old Calendarists" that hold a very particular view of certain things of interest to the Orthodox. I'm not saying they are "wrong" because much of what they say does have merit. But their spin of the truth I deeply question.

In the article linked above, about half of it is in spirit, IMHO against Orthodoxy. More specifically, they take certain Orthodox perspectives then put a spin on them for the sole purpose of defending their anti-ecumenical position. The so called "Old Calendarist" are the anti-ecumenical Orthodox. Beware of what you read on the internet! Anyone can compile whatever they want. These guys, by in large aren't even part of the canonical church and go to great lengths to defend their position as such. So of course they end up adhering to congregationalism at the expense of the full truth of proper ecclesiology. At least they are ardent defenders of what they believe is the truth. If they were on CPS they would be your worse CPS nightmare!
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Post by Thunktank » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:42 am

tuttle wrote:
Thunktank wrote:Oh dear, we have fallen into tuttle's trap.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA :twisted:

but seriously, I wasn't setting a trap as much as I just wanted to voice my concerns about the term Cathanglodox and I figured it would be best voiced in the Cathanglodox Thread. I guess I was wrong. Perhaps I should be Pope-slapped.

Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
Are you setting another trap?

Briefly, my belief about the Pope is that it would be ideal if we could once again agree to have him as ecumenical Patriarch in his historic role of universal reconciliation. This role has many facets to it and that's probably the most important question to be answered in ecumenical talks between the Cathanglodox.

But I will cease to go beyond this answer concerning this. Why? Because I agree with wosbald and Jo### that this thread shouldn't be about personal unilateral opinions but about sharing information that would be of interest to us.

I really hope that we can move on to better things soon. If not, I'm out.
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Post by tuttle » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:18 pm

Thunktank wrote:
tuttle wrote:
Thunktank wrote:Oh dear, we have fallen into tuttle's trap.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA :twisted:

but seriously, I wasn't setting a trap as much as I just wanted to voice my concerns about the term Cathanglodox and I figured it would be best voiced in the Cathanglodox Thread. I guess I was wrong. Perhaps I should be Pope-slapped.

Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
Are you setting another trap?

No...

Image







yes

Image
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Post by TheRealAaron » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:21 pm

tuttle wrote: Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
Everyone seems to think Tawadros II is great. 8)

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Post by jo533281 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:04 pm

TheRealAaron wrote:
tuttle wrote: Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
Everyone seems to think Tawadros II is great. 8)
Now that is a winner right there. :lol:
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Post by Thunktank » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:38 pm

jo533281 wrote:
TheRealAaron wrote:
tuttle wrote: Say, speaking of pope-slapped...what's the Cathanglodox perspective on the Pope?
Everyone seems to think Tawadros II is great. 8)
Now that is a winner right there. :lol:
Yeah, why didn't I think of that?
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Post by Thoth » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:23 pm

Of the final 3 patriarchal candidates before the altar lot Bishop Tawadros (Theodorus or Theodore) was the dark horse but his selection - even though the general mood of Copts before was apprehensive of what the future brings - gives hope that the church is in good hands.


Though its interesting with his enthronement there will now be two concurrent Pope Theodore II's of the see of Alexandria (one OO and one EO). maybe its a harbinger of true unity between the families of the Orthodox Church.
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Post by jo533281 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:38 pm

Thoth wrote:Of the final 3 patriarchal candidates before the altar lot Bishop Tawadros (Theodorus or Theodore) was the dark horse but his selection - even though the general mood of Copts before was apprehensive of what the future brings - gives hope that the church is in good hands.


Though its interesting with his enthronement there will now be two concurrent Pope Theodore II's of the see of Alexandria (one OO and one EO). maybe its a harbinger of true unity between the families of the Orthodox Church.
Wait... we have a patriarch in Alexandria? 8O
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Post by Thunktank » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:34 pm

jo533281 wrote:
Thoth wrote:Of the final 3 patriarchal candidates before the altar lot Bishop Tawadros (Theodorus or Theodore) was the dark horse but his selection - even though the general mood of Copts before was apprehensive of what the future brings - gives hope that the church is in good hands.


Though its interesting with his enthronement there will now be two concurrent Pope Theodore II's of the see of Alexandria (one OO and one EO). maybe its a harbinger of true unity between the families of the Orthodox Church.
Wait... we have a patriarch in Alexandria? 8O
Yes, we do.

Perhaps we should blindfold another boy to pick their names out of a chalice to see who can preside over the reunited see. :lol:
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Post by wosbald » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:55 am

+JMJ+
From THE ANGLICAN THREAD...
serapion wrote:This thread is devoted to the via media that is Anglicanism.
About this via media, I believe that Colton has said that it refers to a middle way between Cathanglodoxy and Protestantism. But how can there be a middle way between Incarno-Sacramentalism and Protestantism? It would seem to me that either one believes in operationally efficacious Sacraments or one does not.

Or does this "middle way" refer to a sort of tolerance, in practice, of both Cath/Ortho Sacramentalism as well as Protestant variations? And further, if this is the case, then does this make the concept of a via media little more than wishful thinking? Has it established a precedent, becoming a template which has led to the doctrinal and canonical chaos that many Anglicans seem to complain?

Or does the via media refer to something completely different?
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Post by jo533281 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:45 am

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+
From THE ANGLICAN THREAD...
serapion wrote:This thread is devoted to the via media that is Anglicanism.
About this via media, I believe that Colton has said that it refers to a middle way between Cathanglodoxy and Protestantism. But how can there be a middle way between Incarno-Sacramentalism and Protestantism? It would seem to me that either one believes in operationally efficacious Sacraments or one does not.

Or does this "middle way" refer to a sort of tolerance, in practice, of both Cath/Ortho Sacramentalism as well as Protestant variations? And further, if this is the case, then does this make the concept of a via media little more than wishful thinking? Has it established a precedent, becoming a template which has led to the doctrinal and canonical chaos that many Anglicans seem to complain?

Or does the via media refer to something completely different?
Istm that at best, it could possibly (though practically, I am not so sure) be a middle way between RCs and EOs. That is, accepting some things RC (filioque) while accepting some things EO (conciliarism). Just a passing thought. I am not so sure it carries any weight.

As for a way between sacramentalism and antisacramentalism, that sounds to me a bit absurd.
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Post by Thunktank » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:00 pm

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+
From THE ANGLICAN THREAD...
serapion wrote:This thread is devoted to the via media that is Anglicanism.
About this via media, I believe that Colton has said that it refers to a middle way between Cathanglodoxy and Protestantism. But how can there be a middle way between Incarno-Sacramentalism and Protestantism? It would seem to me that either one believes in operationally efficacious Sacraments or one does not.
From a Catholic and Orthodox paradigm this would be true. Therefore it is. :)

However, from a Anglican paradigm there is more to the story to include the many different voices and paradigms that inhabit the Anglican communion.

To clarify my own position I will add that I spent but one important year of soul searching with two different Anglican parishes. One was, at that time, part of the Episcopal church and catered to Charismatic Evangelicalism at it's 11:00 AM service, it's 9:00 AM service followed a broadline pattern and it's 7:00 AM service was filled with people over 70 and used a "high church" pattern of worship. This church had guest speakers that included everything from Evangelical, to Pentecostal, to various mainline Protestant and received gifts like the Stations of the Cross and enjoyed reciting Prayers from Orthodox saints.

The Other Anglican church I attended was splinter group that broke off from the Episcopal church in the 70s. It's name declared what it was, it's name was St. "-------" Anglican Catholic Church. It's services were "high church" and they were very liturgical, using if memory serves, the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. I really enjoyed attending their liturgies while I preferred the parish life of the other Episcopal Church which had various robust activities and ministries.
Or does this "middle way" refer to a sort of tolerance, in practice, of both Cath/Ortho Sacramentalism as well as Protestant variations? And further, if this is the case, then does this make the concept of a via media little more than wishful thinking? Has it established a precedent, becoming a template which has led to the doctrinal and canonical chaos that many Anglicans seem to complain?
The paradigm difference between the Catholic/Orthodox perspective vs Anglican is that Baptism is a greater sign of unity than Communion of the faithful. Also, the standards by which truth is accepted and known is different than either the Catholic or Orthodox churches. Therefore "grace" toward those who believe differently about a certain thing is greatly broadened.
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Post by serapion » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:09 pm

All of the above would make an excellent post in THE ANGLICAN THREAD (shameless promotion here).

My view of it is that Anglicanism tries to be a big tent that can encompass everyone. The result is that it is very unclear when to draw the line between inside and outside the tent. And yes I do think this is one of the reasons why Anglicanism is where it is now.
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Post by OldWorldSwine » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:14 pm

"Unity is hard. Just relax and split the difference, guys", said no Jesus ever.
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