I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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wosbald
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:33 am

+JMJ+

Hostility to Vatican II runs deep with Pope Francis' critics
Image
People look at a poster expressing criticism of Pope Francis in Rome Feb. 5, 2017. Numerous copies of the poster were placed in the center of Rome but were quickly covered or removed by city authorities. (CNS/Paul Haring)

[…]

The latest evidence comes from a book by E.M. Radaelli that places much of the blame for what he discerns as a quasi-heretical modernism in the church on the shoulders of Joseph Ratzinger! Here is how Andrea Tornielli characterizes this new volume:
The volume aims to "convince the old professor, then Pope, now cardinal again, to reject, publicly, immediately and in full, all the "improper concepts of his Introduction to Christianity" which "infect the pages of the book, before it is too late for him." And he wants "to demonstrate to the widest possible number of reachable readers, how false and misleading are all the doctrines taught, so as to help the Church return to the solidity of her faith forever."
The irony here is enormous. I read Ratzinger's Introduction to Christianity years ago, and loved it. Whenever my liberal friends would attack Ratzinger, it was clear that they either had not read his work or misunderstood it, or were so biased by their dislike of some of his actions as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that they could not or would not see the gems in his theology.

The irony continues. Radaelli also criticizes the "progressive theology" of Karl Rahner, Hans Urs von Balthasar and Henri de Lubac. It would come as a surprise to many of Balthasar's and DeLubac's critics and champions to see them placed in the category of "progressive theology" alongside Rahner.

[…]

Zuhlsdorf and Edward Pentin at the National Catholic Register report on a statement from three bishops in Kazakhstan that directly challenges Amoris Laetitia. I do not mean to nitpick, but Pentin's way of recounting the Kazak bishops' claims is significant. For example, he writes:
In view of this "ever increasing confusion" in the Church, the bishops reassert the Church's teaching on the indissolubility of marriage, arguing that admitting some "remarried" divorcees without an annulment to Holy Communion, and not living in continence, is tantamount to a "kind of introduction of divorce in the life of the Church."
There is no sense that the Kazak bishops are here asserting a controverted point, no "what they claim is the Church's teaching on the indissolubility of marriage," no introduction of an adjective like "supposed" to make it clear that these are claims, not facts. It is hard to know where the bishops end and Pentin begins.

Additionally, after the pope's decision to post the statement of the bishops of Buenos Aires, Argentina, and his response in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, are there really grounds for "confusion" any longer? The Kazak bishops (and Pentin for that matter) may not like the definitive interpretation given by the pope, but there is no longer any reason for confusion.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:11 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"You guys are weird." - Mrs. FredS

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:30 am

+JMJ+
UncleBob wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:11 am
Image

:chili:
Fixed it fer ya.

Cuz yer pic wouldn't show. Just sayin'.




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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:47 am

wosbald wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:30 am
+JMJ+
UncleBob wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:11 am
Image

:chili:
Fixed it fer ya.

Cuz yer pic wouldn't show. Just sayin'.
That's one thing about Frank I like. His pictures always show.

:cheese:
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"You guys are weird." - Mrs. FredS

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:57 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"You guys are weird." - Mrs. FredS

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:04 pm

National Catholic Reporter.

Hostility against faithful Catholicism and the authentic teaching of Vatican II runs deep at National Catholic Reporter.

And this author -- Sean Michael Winters -- is notorious.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Goose55 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:53 pm

Del wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:04 pm
National Catholic Reporter.

Hostility against faithful Catholicism and the authentic teaching of Vatican II runs deep at National Catholic Reporter.

And this author -- Sean Michael Winters -- is notorious.
Order the fellow to recant.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:53 pm
Del wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:04 pm
National Catholic Reporter.

Hostility against faithful Catholicism and the authentic teaching of Vatican II runs deep at National Catholic Reporter.

And this author -- Sean Michael Winters -- is notorious.
Order the fellow to recant.
Here's the deal: National Catholic Reporter is the mouthpiece of dissident groups that falsely claim to be "Catholic" -- but they are not under the pastoral leadership of any bishop or pope. Every real Catholic mission has a bishop that they answer to. National Catholic Reporter has none. They say that they hate Pope Benedict or love Pope Francis, but they answer to no one but themselves. As a result, it is a lie that they have "Catholic" in their name.... and they know it.

There is no one can order them to cease-and-desist. Since their founding in 1968, bishops in their home diocese of Kansas City have ordered them to stop using the name "Catholic." They don't listen.
http://www.courageouspriest.com/bishop- ... g-catholic

We know (from the Podesta email leaks during the last election campaign) that a lot of their political agenda was developed by subversive politics. They are political hacks, working to separate Catholics from our faith.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:38 am

+JMJ+

Wikipedia: National Catholic Reporter #Bishops' criticisms
In 1968, Kansas City Bishop Charles Herman Helmsing issued a statement condemning NCR, saying it had a "policy of crusading against the Church's teachings," a "poisonous character" and "disregard and denial of the most sacred values of our Catholic faith."[11] Helmsing warned that NCR's writers were likely guilty of heresy and subject to the automatic excommunication that incurs. Because the publication "does not reflect the teaching of the Church, but on the contrary, has openly and deliberately opposed this teaching," he asked the editors to "drop the term 'Catholic' from their masthead" because "they deceive their Catholic readers and do a great disservice to ecumenism by ... watering down Catholic teachings.[11][12]

NCR did not comply with his request, and 66 Catholic journalists signed a statement disagreeing with the condemnation based on its "underlying definition of the legitimate boundaries of religious journalism in service to the church." The Catholic Press Association reported that the dispute arose from a difference of opinion regarding the function of the press.[13]

In 2013, Bishop Robert Finn wrote a column in his diocesan newspaper recalling Helmsing's condemnation of NCR and wrote that the paper refused to "submit their bona fides as a Catholic media outlet in accord with the expectations of Church law," and considered itself an "independent newspaper which commented on 'things Catholic.'"[14]

NCR publisher Thomas C. Fox denied the implication that there was a decades-long animosity between the diocese and the newspaper, noting that Bishop John Sullivan and Bishop Raymond Boland "had cordial relations with NCR." He pointed out that NCR is a member of the Catholic Press Association of the United States and Canada whose honorary president is Bishop John Wester, who also serves as the chairman of the Committee of Communications of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Fox noted an NCR editorial in November 2012 had called on Finn to resign or be removed from his position after Finn was found guilty "of failing to report suspected child abuse involving a local priest."[15] Finn did resign from the Diocese of Kansas City on April 21, 2015 after an internal Vatican investigation.




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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:08 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"You guys are weird." - Mrs. FredS

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:12 pm

wosbald wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:38 am
+JMJ+

Wikipedia: National Catholic Reporter #Bishops' criticisms
In 1968, Kansas City Bishop Charles Herman Helmsing issued a statement condemning NCR, saying it had a "policy of crusading against the Church's teachings," a "poisonous character" and "disregard and denial of the most sacred values of our Catholic faith."[11] Helmsing warned that NCR's writers were likely guilty of heresy and subject to the automatic excommunication that incurs. Because the publication "does not reflect the teaching of the Church, but on the contrary, has openly and deliberately opposed this teaching," he asked the editors to "drop the term 'Catholic' from their masthead" because "they deceive their Catholic readers and do a great disservice to ecumenism by ... watering down Catholic teachings.[11][12]

NCR did not comply with his request, and 66 Catholic journalists signed a statement disagreeing with the condemnation based on its "underlying definition of the legitimate boundaries of religious journalism in service to the church." The Catholic Press Association reported that the dispute arose from a difference of opinion regarding the function of the press.[13]

In 2013, Bishop Robert Finn wrote a column in his diocesan newspaper recalling Helmsing's condemnation of NCR and wrote that the paper refused to "submit their bona fides as a Catholic media outlet in accord with the expectations of Church law," and considered itself an "independent newspaper which commented on 'things Catholic.'"[14]

NCR publisher Thomas C. Fox denied the implication that there was a decades-long animosity between the diocese and the newspaper, noting that Bishop John Sullivan and Bishop Raymond Boland "had cordial relations with NCR." He pointed out that NCR is a member of the Catholic Press Association of the United States and Canada whose honorary president is Bishop John Wester, who also serves as the chairman of the Committee of Communications of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Fox noted an NCR editorial in November 2012 had called on Finn to resign or be removed from his position after Finn was found guilty "of failing to report suspected child abuse involving a local priest."[15] Finn did resign from the Diocese of Kansas City on April 21, 2015 after an internal Vatican investigation.
They insist that no one has authority to correct them when they are wrong. You know what that means.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Skip » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:14 pm

Del wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:12 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:38 am
+JMJ+

Wikipedia: National Catholic Reporter #Bishops' criticisms
In 1968, Kansas City Bishop Charles Herman Helmsing issued a statement condemning NCR, saying it had a "policy of crusading against the Church's teachings," a "poisonous character" and "disregard and denial of the most sacred values of our Catholic faith."[11] Helmsing warned that NCR's writers were likely guilty of heresy and subject to the automatic excommunication that incurs. Because the publication "does not reflect the teaching of the Church, but on the contrary, has openly and deliberately opposed this teaching," he asked the editors to "drop the term 'Catholic' from their masthead" because "they deceive their Catholic readers and do a great disservice to ecumenism by ... watering down Catholic teachings.[11][12]

NCR did not comply with his request, and 66 Catholic journalists signed a statement disagreeing with the condemnation based on its "underlying definition of the legitimate boundaries of religious journalism in service to the church." The Catholic Press Association reported that the dispute arose from a difference of opinion regarding the function of the press.[13]

In 2013, Bishop Robert Finn wrote a column in his diocesan newspaper recalling Helmsing's condemnation of NCR and wrote that the paper refused to "submit their bona fides as a Catholic media outlet in accord with the expectations of Church law," and considered itself an "independent newspaper which commented on 'things Catholic.'"[14]

NCR publisher Thomas C. Fox denied the implication that there was a decades-long animosity between the diocese and the newspaper, noting that Bishop John Sullivan and Bishop Raymond Boland "had cordial relations with NCR." He pointed out that NCR is a member of the Catholic Press Association of the United States and Canada whose honorary president is Bishop John Wester, who also serves as the chairman of the Committee of Communications of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Fox noted an NCR editorial in November 2012 had called on Finn to resign or be removed from his position after Finn was found guilty "of failing to report suspected child abuse involving a local priest."[15] Finn did resign from the Diocese of Kansas City on April 21, 2015 after an internal Vatican investigation.
They insist that no one has authority to correct them when they are wrong. You know what that means.
They're Protestants?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:27 pm

Skip wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:14 pm
Del wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:12 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:38 am
+JMJ+

Wikipedia: National Catholic Reporter #Bishops' criticisms
In 1968, Kansas City Bishop Charles Herman Helmsing issued a statement condemning NCR, saying it had a "policy of crusading against the Church's teachings," a "poisonous character" and "disregard and denial of the most sacred values of our Catholic faith."[11] Helmsing warned that NCR's writers were likely guilty of heresy and subject to the automatic excommunication that incurs. Because the publication "does not reflect the teaching of the Church, but on the contrary, has openly and deliberately opposed this teaching," he asked the editors to "drop the term 'Catholic' from their masthead" because "they deceive their Catholic readers and do a great disservice to ecumenism by ... watering down Catholic teachings.[11][12]

NCR did not comply with his request, and 66 Catholic journalists signed a statement disagreeing with the condemnation based on its "underlying definition of the legitimate boundaries of religious journalism in service to the church." The Catholic Press Association reported that the dispute arose from a difference of opinion regarding the function of the press.[13]

In 2013, Bishop Robert Finn wrote a column in his diocesan newspaper recalling Helmsing's condemnation of NCR and wrote that the paper refused to "submit their bona fides as a Catholic media outlet in accord with the expectations of Church law," and considered itself an "independent newspaper which commented on 'things Catholic.'"[14]

NCR publisher Thomas C. Fox denied the implication that there was a decades-long animosity between the diocese and the newspaper, noting that Bishop John Sullivan and Bishop Raymond Boland "had cordial relations with NCR." He pointed out that NCR is a member of the Catholic Press Association of the United States and Canada whose honorary president is Bishop John Wester, who also serves as the chairman of the Committee of Communications of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Fox noted an NCR editorial in November 2012 had called on Finn to resign or be removed from his position after Finn was found guilty "of failing to report suspected child abuse involving a local priest."[15] Finn did resign from the Diocese of Kansas City on April 21, 2015 after an internal Vatican investigation.
They insist that no one has authority to correct them when they are wrong. You know what that means.
They're Protestants?
Goose?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by infidel » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:29 pm

Skip wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:14 pm
Del wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:12 pm
They insist that no one has authority to correct them when they are wrong. You know what that means.
They're Protestants?
Image
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Skip » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:40 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:27 pm
Skip wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:14 pm
Del wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:12 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:38 am
+JMJ+

Wikipedia: National Catholic Reporter #Bishops' criticisms
In 1968, Kansas City Bishop Charles Herman Helmsing issued a statement condemning NCR, saying it had a "policy of crusading against the Church's teachings," a "poisonous character" and "disregard and denial of the most sacred values of our Catholic faith."[11] Helmsing warned that NCR's writers were likely guilty of heresy and subject to the automatic excommunication that incurs. Because the publication "does not reflect the teaching of the Church, but on the contrary, has openly and deliberately opposed this teaching," he asked the editors to "drop the term 'Catholic' from their masthead" because "they deceive their Catholic readers and do a great disservice to ecumenism by ... watering down Catholic teachings.[11][12]

NCR did not comply with his request, and 66 Catholic journalists signed a statement disagreeing with the condemnation based on its "underlying definition of the legitimate boundaries of religious journalism in service to the church." The Catholic Press Association reported that the dispute arose from a difference of opinion regarding the function of the press.[13]

In 2013, Bishop Robert Finn wrote a column in his diocesan newspaper recalling Helmsing's condemnation of NCR and wrote that the paper refused to "submit their bona fides as a Catholic media outlet in accord with the expectations of Church law," and considered itself an "independent newspaper which commented on 'things Catholic.'"[14]

NCR publisher Thomas C. Fox denied the implication that there was a decades-long animosity between the diocese and the newspaper, noting that Bishop John Sullivan and Bishop Raymond Boland "had cordial relations with NCR." He pointed out that NCR is a member of the Catholic Press Association of the United States and Canada whose honorary president is Bishop John Wester, who also serves as the chairman of the Committee of Communications of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Fox noted an NCR editorial in November 2012 had called on Finn to resign or be removed from his position after Finn was found guilty "of failing to report suspected child abuse involving a local priest."[15] Finn did resign from the Diocese of Kansas City on April 21, 2015 after an internal Vatican investigation.
They insist that no one has authority to correct them when they are wrong. You know what that means.
They're Protestants?
Goose?
Damn. Somebody send some aloe vera to the southwest.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:06 pm

Skip wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:40 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:27 pm
Skip wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:14 pm
Del wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:12 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:38 am
+JMJ+

Wikipedia: National Catholic Reporter #Bishops' criticisms
In 1968, Kansas City Bishop Charles Herman Helmsing issued a statement condemning NCR, saying it had a "policy of crusading against the Church's teachings," a "poisonous character" and "disregard and denial of the most sacred values of our Catholic faith."[11] Helmsing warned that NCR's writers were likely guilty of heresy and subject to the automatic excommunication that incurs. Because the publication "does not reflect the teaching of the Church, but on the contrary, has openly and deliberately opposed this teaching," he asked the editors to "drop the term 'Catholic' from their masthead" because "they deceive their Catholic readers and do a great disservice to ecumenism by ... watering down Catholic teachings.[11][12]

NCR did not comply with his request, and 66 Catholic journalists signed a statement disagreeing with the condemnation based on its "underlying definition of the legitimate boundaries of religious journalism in service to the church." The Catholic Press Association reported that the dispute arose from a difference of opinion regarding the function of the press.[13]

In 2013, Bishop Robert Finn wrote a column in his diocesan newspaper recalling Helmsing's condemnation of NCR and wrote that the paper refused to "submit their bona fides as a Catholic media outlet in accord with the expectations of Church law," and considered itself an "independent newspaper which commented on 'things Catholic.'"[14]

NCR publisher Thomas C. Fox denied the implication that there was a decades-long animosity between the diocese and the newspaper, noting that Bishop John Sullivan and Bishop Raymond Boland "had cordial relations with NCR." He pointed out that NCR is a member of the Catholic Press Association of the United States and Canada whose honorary president is Bishop John Wester, who also serves as the chairman of the Committee of Communications of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Fox noted an NCR editorial in November 2012 had called on Finn to resign or be removed from his position after Finn was found guilty "of failing to report suspected child abuse involving a local priest."[15] Finn did resign from the Diocese of Kansas City on April 21, 2015 after an internal Vatican investigation.
They insist that no one has authority to correct them when they are wrong. You know what that means.
They're Protestants?
Goose?
Damn. Somebody send some aloe vera to the southwest.
What do you have against aloe vera?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by infidel » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:30 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:06 pm
What do you have against aloe vera?
Bloody weeds.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:54 pm

infidel wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:30 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:06 pm
What do you have against aloe vera?
Bloody weeds.
Sorry, wrong you.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:48 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:54 pm
infidel wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:30 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:06 pm
What do you have against aloe vera?
Bloody weeds.
Sorry, wrong you.
I am so glad that I started this!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Eph 4

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:49 am

+JMJ+

Pope aide says tensions around 'Amoris' reflect a 'paradigm shift'
Image
In this Tuesday, Aug. 22, 2017 file photo, Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin arrives to meet head of the Russian Orthodox Church Patriarch Kirill, at the St. Danilov monastery, Russian Patriarch's residence in Moscow. (Credit: AP Photo/Alexander Zemlianichenko.)

ROME – According to the pope’s top aide, the sometimes-tumultuous debates unleashed in Catholicism by Pope Francis’s 2016 document on the family, Amoris Laetitia, aren’t primarily due to “certain aspects of its content,” but rather the “paradigm shift” for the Church the document represents.

“At the end of the day, what resulted from Amoris Laetitia is a new paradigm that Pope Francis is carrying forward with wisdom, with prudence, and also with patience,” said Italian Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s Secretary of State and effectively the most senior figure in the Church after the pope himself.

“Probably, the difficulties that came up [around the document] and that still exist in the Church, beyond certain aspects of its content, are due precisely to this change of attitude that the pope is asking of us,” Parolin said.

“It’s a paradigm change, and the text itself insists on this, that’s what is asked of us – this new spirit, this new approach! … Every change always brings difficulties, but these difficulties have to be dealt with and faced with commitment,” Parolin said.

Parolin’s comments came in an interview with Vatican News, a news portal launched by the Vatican’s new Secretariat for Communications. The text of the interview was released Thursday in Rome.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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