I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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hugodrax
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:14 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:08 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:51 pm
Old news.
And therefore...?
You bored us.

Let the Wosbald Papal Navel Gazing Exhibition recommence!
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am

+JMJ+

Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
+JMJ+

Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
Image

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm

+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:41 pm

+JMJ+

Cardinal lays out broad plan for parishes to implement ‘Amoris Laetitia’
Image
Washington Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl speaks Oct. 17 at the 2017 Lumen Civitatis Speaker Series in Memphis, Tenn. (Credit: CNS photo/Karen Pulfer Focht.)

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Washington Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl has issued a broad and detailed pastoral plan for parishes to implement Pope Francis’s post-synodal apostolic exhortation, Amoris Laetitia (“The Joy of Love”).

[…]

“Some may ask, ‘Is the teaching always binding?’ The answer of course is yes,” he continued. “Yet Amoris Laetitia invites us to adopt a complementary perspective and to look with a parental attitude at those families who find themselves in a position where they struggle to even understand, let alone embrace fully, the teaching because of the concrete circumstances in which they live.”

Wuerl said his pastoral plan is “directed to parishes, priests, religious and laity” and is meant “to encourage reflection” on:
  • “The richness of the Church’s perennial teaching on love, marriage, family, faith and mercy.”
  • “The essential aspect of pastoral ministry, called accompaniment.”
  • “Several significant themes such as the new evangelization, the role of conscience, and the privileged place of the parish where we find and experience Christ’s way of living and loving.”
He said the plan “considers in detail the challenges that families encounter today in receiving the Church’s teaching on marriage because of the highly secularized cultural environment in which they live.”

Today, he said, “there are many barriers to encountering Christ and appropriating the Church’s teaching.” Among those barriers are secularism, materialism and individualism, all of which support “a prevalent and dominant relativism,” he said.

“Because of this lack of cultural support, the ministry for encountering and accompanying families through a process of discernment and growth in the faith becomes essential,” the cardinal said, “to the task of the new evangelization as we share Christ’s love and truth in our homes, our communities and our world.”

It is not enough simply for us to hear the Church’s teaching, he said. “We have to be helped to grasp and accept it.”

“Prudential judgments of individuals about their own situation do not set aside the objective moral order,” Wuerl said, but “a decision of conscience to act in one way or another requires guidance and spiritual formation.”

“Priests are called to respect the decisions made in conscience by individuals who act in good faith since no one can enter the soul of another and make that judgment for them,” he noted.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:21 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:41 pm
+JMJ+

Cardinal lays out broad plan for parishes to implement ‘Amoris Laetitia’
Image
Washington Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl speaks Oct. 17 at the 2017 Lumen Civitatis Speaker Series in Memphis, Tenn. (Credit: CNS photo/Karen Pulfer Focht.)

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Washington Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl has issued a broad and detailed pastoral plan for parishes to implement Pope Francis’s post-synodal apostolic exhortation, Amoris Laetitia (“The Joy of Love”).

[…]

“Some may ask, ‘Is the teaching always binding?’ The answer of course is yes,” he continued. “Yet Amoris Laetitia invites us to adopt a complementary perspective and to look with a parental attitude at those families who find themselves in a position where they struggle to even understand, let alone embrace fully, the teaching because of the concrete circumstances in which they live.”

Wuerl said his pastoral plan is “directed to parishes, priests, religious and laity” and is meant “to encourage reflection” on:
  • “The richness of the Church’s perennial teaching on love, marriage, family, faith and mercy.”
  • “The essential aspect of pastoral ministry, called accompaniment.”
  • “Several significant themes such as the new evangelization, the role of conscience, and the privileged place of the parish where we find and experience Christ’s way of living and loving.”
He said the plan “considers in detail the challenges that families encounter today in receiving the Church’s teaching on marriage because of the highly secularized cultural environment in which they live.”

Today, he said, “there are many barriers to encountering Christ and appropriating the Church’s teaching.” Among those barriers are secularism, materialism and individualism, all of which support “a prevalent and dominant relativism,” he said.

“Because of this lack of cultural support, the ministry for encountering and accompanying families through a process of discernment and growth in the faith becomes essential,” the cardinal said, “to the task of the new evangelization as we share Christ’s love and truth in our homes, our communities and our world.”

It is not enough simply for us to hear the Church’s teaching, he said. “We have to be helped to grasp and accept it.”

“Prudential judgments of individuals about their own situation do not set aside the objective moral order,” Wuerl said, but “a decision of conscience to act in one way or another requires guidance and spiritual formation.”

“Priests are called to respect the decisions made in conscience by individuals who act in good faith since no one can enter the soul of another and make that judgment for them,” he noted.

[…]
Pulling a fast one, skinny boy. That's a Cardinal. Not the Pope. If you're starting to like that Cardinal, start a new thread.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:02 am

+JMJ+

Cardinal Wuerl's pastoral plan on 'Amoris Laetitia' points the way forward
Image
Clip from cover art of Cardinal Donald Wuerl's new pastoral plan, "Sharing in the Joy and Love of Marriage and Family," released March 3

[…]

Recently, there has been a great deal of debate about whether or not Amoris Laetitia constitutes a paradigm shift, and whether such a shift is even possible for a church that believes its doctrines are revealed by God. I wrote about that controversy here, and my colleague at The Tablet, editor Brendan Walsh, addressed the issue in this interview with Cardinal Blase Cupich, which includes a video of the cardinal's lecture at the Von Hügel Institute on this subject.

I would submit that Cardinal Wuerl's pastoral plan essentially puts that debate to rest: On virtually every page of the plan, we see that the shift is not in what the church teaches about marriage and family life. The shift is in how the church ministers to the people of God. The word that dominates this pastoral plan is accompaniment. In different sections, we read:

In Amoris Laetitia, the Holy Father gives priority to the practice of pastoral accompaniment, which in its most fundamental aspect involves leading others closer to God. We begin each encounter mindful of everyone's innate human dignity. Pope Francis writes: "The Church will have to initiate everyone — priests, religious and laity — into this 'art of accompaniment' which teaches us to remove our sandals before the sacred ground of the other (cf. Exodus 3:5)."

And:

Early in his pontificate, Pope Francis shared a helpful image of a pastor who accompanies. To a group of priests gathered in Assisi, Pope Francis asked, "What could be more beautiful for us than walking with our people?… sometimes in front, sometimes behind and sometimes in the middle." He further explains, "in front in order to guide the community, in the middle in order to encourage and support; and at the back in order to keep it united and so that no one lags too, too far behind, to keep them united" (Address, October 4, 2013).

And:

If there is a breakdown that leads to separation or even divorce, that loving accompaniment by the Church needs to continue, said the Holy Father. "It is important that the divorced who have entered a new un𝗂on should be made to feel part of the Church," he added, and pastoral care to their children needs to be "the primary concern" (AL, 243-45).

And:

The ministry of accompaniment is a collaborative effort of priests and laity who understand themselves to be missionary disciples, who experience the love of the Lord in their encounter with him and who seek to share it with others.

The cardinal has sections on "accompanying the hurting," "accompanying the anonymous" and an especially interesting section on "accompanying the distracted." All three, but especially this last, reveal a frank but not fretful assessment of the challenges modern families face, a sense of realism about what is possible, especially at first, but also a great confidence in the fact that God's grace is already active in the lives of people and, to repeat a theme of Amoris Laetitia, that God's revelation continues especially in family life. It is, as it is in the Scriptures, a privileged place for God's self-revelation.

This is the paradigm shift. It is not enough for a minister of the Gospel to repeat what the Church teaches and hope that is enough to make marriages more solid, still less bring comfort to the divorced and remarried. We cannot, as some guidelines issued by other bishops, such as those from Archbishop Charles Chaput, skip over the process of accompaniment and discernment and simply repeat the certainty that the divorced and remarried, all of them, without exception and no matter their circumstances, can never be brought to the Eucharistic table. Indeed, the tone of this pastoral plan could not be more different from the Philadelphia guidelines which read as if Amoris Laetitia had never been issued.

The tone of Wuerl's text is captured best in these observations in the chapter on accompaniment:

Some people have focused much of the attention of Amoris Laetitia on people in so-called "irregular situations" as divorce and remarriage. A honest spiritual assessment of marital and family life recognizes that it could be said that each one of us is in an "irregular situation" when it comes to our relationship with true God.

Compare that simple, orthodox observation with the tone of those who seem to revel in referring to "objectively sinful" situations and "manifestly adulterous couples" as we hear on EWTN.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Cleon » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am

hugodrax wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
I do. From the outside looking in, this stuff is fascinating.
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

"More people need to put their big boy britches on." - JMG

"Dang, a pipe slap." - JimVH

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:19 am

Cleon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
I do. From the outside looking in, this stuff is fascinating.
Good. Here's your new friend, Wos. You guys should pm.

You're banned from my funeral, Cleon.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Cleon » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:39 am

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:19 am
Cleon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
I do. From the outside looking in, this stuff is fascinating.
Good. Here's your new friend, Wos. You guys should pm.

You're banned from my funeral, Cleon.
But I smoke pretty little pipes, just like you. Can I have all yours when you die?
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

"More people need to put their big boy britches on." - JMG

"Dang, a pipe slap." - JimVH

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:48 am

Oh, that pesky Pope Francis...

I like him. Why, you ask? Because he cheeses off both the dust-farters and the rainbow-farters. That's his gift to us all. Thank you, sir, and carry on!
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:50 am

Cleon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:39 am
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:19 am
Cleon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
I do. From the outside looking in, this stuff is fascinating.
Good. Here's your new friend, Wos. You guys should pm.

You're banned from my funeral, Cleon.
But I smoke pretty little pipes, just like you. Can I have all yours when you die?
You say "boring." I say "creepy."
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:03 am

+JMJ+

Kasper: the faithful understand Amoris laetitia, stop accusations of heresy
Image
Cardinal Walter Kasper with Pope Francis

An interview with Cardinal Walter Kasper on the post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation on the family and the debate that it sparked in the Catholic world.

As Cardinal Walter Kasper turns 85, the former President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity has written a new book published by the Italian publisher Queriniana. Entitled “Amoris laetitia’s Message. A brotherly discussion.” Cardinal Kasper and Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, President of the Pontifical Academy for Life, are together presenting the book in Rome.

In view of the publication and presentation of the book, Cardinal Walter Kasper granted Vatican News an interview specifically regarding the debate that Pope Francis’ Apostolic Exhortation sparked as well as the good that it has done for families.

[…]

Q. — The subtitle of your book is: “A brotherly discussion.” You also write that disscusions should not be feared, but you add that “there is no place for accusations of heresy.” What has struck you about the debate which became very heated following the publication of Amoris laetitia?
R. — First of all I would like to say that debate in the Church is necessary. There is no need to fear debate! But there is a very bitter debate, way too strong, with accusations of heresy. A heresy is a tenacious disagreement with formal dogma. The doctrine of the indissolubility of marriage has not been called into question on Pope Francis’ part! Before saying that something is heresy, the question should be what the other person means by what has been said. And, above all, that the other person is Catholic should be presupposed, the opposite should not be supposed!

[…]

Q. — What is the greatest help which, according to you, Amoris laetitia gives to today’s families? How can this document “accompany” the daily life of families?
R. — I know a few parishes, also some here in Rome, who have meetings with spouses or with engaged couples preparing for matrimony and they read parts of the Apostolic Exhortation. This document’s language is so clear that any Christian can understand it. It is not high theology incomprehensible to people. The People of God are very content, and happy with this document because it gives space to freedom, but it also interprets the substance of the Christian message in an understandable language. So, the People of God understand! The Pope has an optimal connection with the People of God.

[…]
Last edited by wosbald on Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.




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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:59 am

wosbald wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:03 am
+JMJ+

Kasper: the faithful understand Amoris laetitia, stop accusations of heresy
Image
Cardinal Walter Kasper with Pope Francis

An interview with Cardinal Walter Kasper on the post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation on the family and the debate that it sparked in the Catholic world.

As Cardinal Walter Kasper turns 85, the former President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity has written a new book published by the Italian publisher Queriniana. Entitled “Amoris laetitia’s Message. A brotherly discussion.” Cardinal Kasper and Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, President of the Pontifical Academy for Life, are together presenting the book in Rome.

In view of the publication and presentation of the book, Cardinal Walter Kasper granted Vatican News an interview specifically regarding the debate that Pope Francis’ Apostolic Exhortation sparked as well as the good that it has done for families.

[…]

Q. — The subtitle of your book is: “A brotherly discussion.” You also write that disscusions should not be feared, but you add that “there is no place for accusations of heresy.” What has struck you about the debate which became very heated following the publication of Amoris laetitia?
R. — First of all I would like to say that debate in the Church is necessary. There is no need to fear debate! But there is a very bitter debate, way too strong, with accusations of heresy. A heresy is a tenacious disagreement with formal dogma. The doctrine of the indissolubility of marriage has not been called into question on Pope Francis’ part! Before saying that something is heresy, the question should be what the other person means by what has been said. And, above all, that the other person is Catholic should be presupposed, the opposite should not be supposed!

[…]

Q. — What is the greatest help which, according to you, Amoris laetitia gives to today’s families? How can this document “accompany” the daily life of families?
R. — I know a few parishes, also some here in Rome, who have meetings with spouses or with engaged couples preparing for matrimony and they read parts of the Apostolic Exhortation. This document’s language is so clear that any Christian can understand it. It is not high theology incomprehensible to people. The Pope of God are very content, and happy with this document because it gives space to freedom, but it also interprets the substance of the Christian message in an understandable language. So, the People of God understand! The Pope has an optimal connection with the People of God.

[…]
I keep thinking of the Life of Brian, slightly changed:

"He's a heretic!"

"No, I'm not!"

"Only a t rue heretic denies his heresy."

"Alright, then. I am a heretic."

"He is a heretic!"

Not worth a single stain on the Papal red gators.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by infidel » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:22 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:59 am
Not worth a single stain on the Papal red gators.
Gators? Gaiters?
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:36 am

infidel wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:22 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:59 am
Not worth a single stain on the Papal red gators.
Gators? Gaiters?
They used to wear red shoes.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:27 pm

Cleon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
I do. From the outside looking in, this stuff is fascinating.
It is?

From the inside, the only Catholics who seem to care alot are Catholics who are, shall I say “specialists.” Seriously, I never hear anything about it in parish life. No one cares. As far as I can tell, it’s an attempt to encourage merciful pastoring to help salvation. Sounds good to me.

Just be. Just be cool. Just be righteous. The Sacred Heart of Jesus thumbs up!
Image

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:01 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:27 pm
Cleon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
I do. From the outside looking in, this stuff is fascinating.
It is?

From the inside, the only Catholics who seem to care alot are Catholics who are, shall I say “specialists.” Seriously, I never hear anything about it in parish life. No one cares. As far as I can tell, it’s an attempt to encourage merciful pastoring to help salvation. Sounds good to me.

Just be. Just be cool. Just be righteous. The Sacred Heart of Jesus thumbs up!
Just be cool... like Kaspar, The Faithful.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

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Thunktank
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:28 pm

Del wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:01 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:27 pm
Cleon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:29 pm
+JMJ+
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 pm
wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:05 am
Tracking back to a post on page 57 of this thread …


Orthodox Catholic author warns on EWTN Pope Francis has deliberately created confusion
EWTN anchor and Managing Editor Raymond Arroyo welcomed Lawler Thursday for a discussion of Lawler’s just released book “Lost Shepherd: How Pope Francis is Misleading His Flock” (2018) Regnery.

“Pope Francis has created enough confusion so that there is a huge space for maneuver for people who want to one way or another take an end around around Church moral teachings,” Lawler told Arroyo at the start of their conversation. Arroyo assented this has been done through the Francis pontificate’s much-touted notions of accompaniment and mercy.

[…]

Arroyo and Lawler discussed the conflicting interpretations of the pope’s document throughout the world, with some bishops saying the Church’s pastoral practice has changed and others saying it had not - and the faithful being left in the middle. They talked as well about how, when pastoral practice is changed, the result is doctrine no longer matters anymore because "the lived doctrine" has become unrecognizable – which is the same end result as changing Church teaching.

“That’s precisely the point,” Lawler told Arroyo. “Why else would Pope Francis have declined to answer the dubia - the perfectly legitimate questions from four cardinals asking him for clarity?”

“Why would you not want clarity?” asked Lawler. “Unless your intent was to provide that fuzzy space in which people can maneuver around Church teaching.”

[…]



(Interview with Lawler begins at 23:05 in the video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC-0qoe8wdM
That’s it! Raymond and EWT have spoken! Good grief. :egor:
A couple of weeks ago, before this latest Arroyo debacle, Spadaro (Jesuit editor-in-chief of La Civiltà Cattolica and reputed Papal confidante) retweeted this …

Image

Will EWTN reel-in Raymond, or will he take the network down in an epically flaming fail?

Or will he just pack-up and go to FOX News, instead?

Stay tuned!
Show of hands: who cares?
I do. From the outside looking in, this stuff is fascinating.
It is?

From the inside, the only Catholics who seem to care alot are Catholics who are, shall I say “specialists.” Seriously, I never hear anything about it in parish life. No one cares. As far as I can tell, it’s an attempt to encourage merciful pastoring to help salvation. Sounds good to me.

Just be. Just be cool. Just be righteous. The Sacred Heart of Jesus thumbs up!
Just be cool... like Kaspar, The Faithful.
:thumbsup:

Mercy, Mercy, Mercy

God loves a contrite heart.
Image

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