I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:00 pm

tuttle wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:53 am
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 am
tuttle wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:36 am
You hit closer to my point in the second half of your response. I was sloppy in conveying what was on my mind. I wasn't necessarily trying to slam the Roman Catholic Church for executing people, but rather looking at a time when the Catholic church approved of the death penalty. I have a hard time rectifying the claim that the DP is inadmissible now and is not in contradiction with the Church's teachings then.
Some Christian ethical rules are absolute.

But most ethical solutions depend on the facts of the situation.

For example, War is always a terrible thing. But sometimes the situation demands War as the just and ethical response of a nation for the protection of its people. Thus we have a "Just War" theology.

So Francis is saying that capital punishment, while terrible, can still be just under some circumstances..... but we don't find ourselves under those circumstances in this age.

Our fear (in this age of abortion and assisted suicide) is that secular governments might find it convenient to reduce their imprisoned populations by a more enthusiastic application of the death penalty. Such spectacle might even be televised, for the edification of the masses. And the ratings are good.
Don't take my questioning as being opposed to what you've put forward, or being unable to understand it, I'm not necessarily unsympathetic to the aims, I'm more concerned about the means. I still haven't heard a convincing argument that tells me how the Pope's decision jives with the Church's teaching in the past, especially how it jives with Paul's admission that the State has the God given authority to wield the sword against evildoers. To say the DP is inadmissible and that such a statement isn't conflicting with the teachings of the past seem out of step to me and so much like modern liberal reasoning that it gives me bewildered pause.
I keep trying to tell you.... Pope Francis is not saying that the death penalty is "inadmissible" or that the state does not have this "authority."

He is saying that the death penalty is unconscionable under the circumstances of this age. It's not that we can't -- just that we most certainly shouldn't.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:24 pm

+JMJ+
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:00 pm
I keep trying to tell you.... Pope Francis is not saying that the death penalty is "inadmissible" or that the state does not have this "authority."

He is saying that the death penalty is unconscionable under the circumstances of this age. It's not that we can't -- just that we most certainly shouldn't.
Even though the specific word used is "inadmissible" and not "unconscionable"?

I think your reading is simply wrongheaded. As wrongheaded as Tuttle's (unsurprising, from a Prot POV) charge of "unjivability".

IMO, PP Francis is simply bringing out the paradox in greater relief than was done in years past. Though the DP is not intrinsically evil, it is nevertheless "inadmissible" Goseplwise.

Can something be "not wrong" and, yet, still not be a high enough standard for those that follow the Master?

For example — and this may be a somewhat imperfect analogy — polygamy and/or divorce are "not wrong" vis-à-vis the Natural Law or Old Testament. But they are still not the Gospel standard. "But from the beginning, the Death Penalty was not so."?

Of course, all of this assumes that the catechetical revision is not reversible.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:48 pm

How Pope Francis Is Changing the Catholic Church
In the first year of his papacy, Francis famously issued “The Joy of the Gospel,” an apostolic exhortation that sought an inclusive, decentralized Church and raised environmentalism to the forefront of the faith’s mission. And then, in 2016, he infuriated conservatives with “On Love in the Family,” an exhortation containing a footnote that signaled a path for divorced (and remarried) Catholics to receive Holy Communion. It was the footnote heard round the Catholic world.

Recently, in a Roman hotel basement, I watched a conference of conservative cardinals suggest that Francis risked heresy, as far-right groupies cheered in support. I’ve read conservative blogs attacking the pope for staying silent as Ireland voted to legalize abortion. Over drinks on Roman rooftops, I’ve listened to Church traditionalists explain why Muslim migration into Europe must be stopped—and mischievously trade gossip about the pope’s single functioning lung (part of his other was removed due to an infection when he was a teenager) and predict his life expectancy.

“They remain connected to a Catholicism that was linked to costumes. Nostalgia,” Archbishop Celli tells me. For them, he adds, Catholicism is a museum to be visited. “Pope Francis has nothing of the museum about him.”
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:58 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:48 pm
How Pope Francis Is Changing the Catholic Church
In the first year of his papacy, Francis famously issued “The Joy of the Gospel,” an apostolic exhortation that sought an inclusive, decentralized Church and raised environmentalism to the forefront of the faith’s mission. And then, in 2016, he infuriated conservatives with “On Love in the Family,” an exhortation containing a footnote that signaled a path for divorced (and remarried) Catholics to receive Holy Communion. It was the footnote heard round the Catholic world.

Recently, in a Roman hotel basement, I watched a conference of conservative cardinals suggest that Francis risked heresy, as far-right groupies cheered in support. I’ve read conservative blogs attacking the pope for staying silent as Ireland voted to legalize abortion. Over drinks on Roman rooftops, I’ve listened to Church traditionalists explain why Muslim migration into Europe must be stopped—and mischievously trade gossip about the pope’s single functioning lung (part of his other was removed due to an infection when he was a teenager) and predict his life expectancy.

“They remain connected to a Catholicism that was linked to costumes. Nostalgia,” Archbishop Celli tells me. For them, he adds, Catholicism is a museum to be visited. “Pope Francis has nothing of the museum about him.”
I'd trust Vogue on Vatican reporting like I'd trust Archbishop Celli on fashion advice.

Except that Archbishop Celli has no reason to lie and spin about fashions.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Jester » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:00 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:38 am
+JMJ+
Jester wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:24 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:47 am
I've thought of this. But I believe that …
I am extremely pro-capital punishment. …

[…]
Well, assuming the authority of the Pope's catechetical revision, then that would seem to leave only two choices:

  • You have decided to relativize the Gospel. To lay the Gospel aside, at least in certain cases, in your pursuit of Justice.
    or
  • You have a different Gospel.

Regardless, that's something that you'll have to work out at your appointed time. Either that, or come to the Church and work it out before your appointment.

Not judgin'. Just sayin'. :)
Agreed, assuming the Pope's authority would only leave those two choices.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:04 am

wosbald wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:24 pm
+JMJ+
Del wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:00 pm
I keep trying to tell you.... Pope Francis is not saying that the death penalty is "inadmissible" or that the state does not have this "authority."

He is saying that the death penalty is unconscionable under the circumstances of this age. It's not that we can't -- just that we most certainly shouldn't.
Even though the specific word used is "inadmissible" and not "unconscionable"?

I think your reading is simply wrongheaded. As wrongheaded as Tuttle's (unsurprising, from a Prot POV) charge of "unjivability".

IMO, PP Francis is simply bringing out the paradox in greater relief than was done in years past. Though the DP is not intrinsically evil, it is nevertheless "inadmissible" Goseplwise.

Can something be "not wrong" and, yet, still not be a high enough standard for those that follow the Master?

For example — and this may be a somewhat imperfect analogy — polygamy and/or divorce are "not wrong" vis-à-vis the Natural Law or Old Testament. But they are still not the Gospel standard. "But from the beginning, the Death Penalty was not so."?

Of course, all of this assumes that the catechetical revision is not reversible.
I get this, I "basically" agree with the Pope about it. I'm most certainly NOT pro DP. However, I still believe there may be times when it is admissible and even good insofar that just war and self defense is. This authoratative pronouncement from the Holy Father is simply a bit too general. .02

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:07 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:29 am

+JMJ+
Image


Pope Francis: Letter to the People of God (full text)
Image
Pope Francis at prayer

Pope Francis has responded to new reports of clerical sexual abuse and the ecclesial cover-up of abuse. In an impassioned letter addressed to the whole People of God, he calls on the Church to be close to victims in solidarity, and to join in acts of prayer and fasting in penance for such "atrocities".


Letter of His Holiness Pope Francis
To the People of God

“If one member suffers, all suffer together with it” (1 Cor 12:26). These words of Saint Paul forcefully echo in my heart as I acknowledge once more the suffering endured by many minors due to sexual abuse, the abuse of power and the abuse of conscience perpetrated by a significant number of clerics and consecrated persons. Crimes that inflict deep wounds of pain and powerlessness, primarily among …

[…]
"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:21 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:29 am
+JMJ+
Image


Pope Francis: Letter to the People of God (full text)
Image
Pope Francis at prayer

Pope Francis has responded to new reports of clerical sexual abuse and the ecclesial cover-up of abuse. In an impassioned letter addressed to the whole People of God, he calls on the Church to be close to victims in solidarity, and to join in acts of prayer and fasting in penance for such "atrocities".


Letter of His Holiness Pope Francis
To the People of God

“If one member suffers, all suffer together with it” (1 Cor 12:26). These words of Saint Paul forcefully echo in my heart as I acknowledge once more the suffering endured by many minors due to sexual abuse, the abuse of power and the abuse of conscience perpetrated by a significant number of clerics and consecrated persons. Crimes that inflict deep wounds of pain and powerlessness, primarily among …

[…]
Rod Dreher has an interesting take:
If I had not been following this story closely for years, I would be comforted by this epistle. Here’s why you should not be.
He goes on to discuss the inactivity of previous popes and feels Francis is just full of hot air unless some major action is taken very soon.

He also highlights the comments of one Father Dwight Longenecker:
The Pope’s letter to the People of God: 1. Lays most of the emphasis on caring for victims 2. Spreads the blame to “all of us.” 3. Glosses over egregious episcopal crimes 4. Never mentions homosexuality.

Of course we must do everything we can for the victims of clerical abuse, but the exclusive focus on the victims is a slick PR stunt to shift attention away from the abusers and their enablers.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by TNLawPiper » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:17 pm

The Catholic Bishops Who Failed Us All

What we need is a time of public penance and purgation. If the Church does not police itself, the public will, and their policing will be unmeasured persecution. I'm not convinced persecution is unmerited, frankly.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:50 am

My bishop has put on the armor and grabbed the sword.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bisho ... -in-church

He's not shying away from the battle that needs to be fought. It starts with naming the problem at the core.
There must be no room left, no refuge for sin – either within our own lives, or within the lives of our communities. To be a refuge for sinners (which we should be), the Church must be a place where sinners can turn to be reconciled. In this I speak of all sin. But to be clear, in the specific situations at hand, we are talking about deviant sexual – almost exclusively homosexual – acts by clerics. We’re also talking about homosexual propositions and abuses against seminarians and young priests by powerful priests, bishops, and cardinals. We are talking about acts and actions which are not only in violation of the sacred promises made by some, in short, sacrilege, but also are in violation of the natural moral law for all. To call it anything else would be deceitful and would only ignore the problem further.

There has been a great deal of effort to keep separate acts which fall under the category of now- culturally-acceptable acts of homosexuality from the publicly-deplorable acts of pedophilia. That is to say, until recently the problems of the Church have been painted purely as problems of pedophilia – this despite clear evidence to the contrary. It is time to be honest that the problems are both and they are more. To fall into the trap of parsing problems according to what society might find acceptable or unacceptable is ignoring the fact that the Church has never held ANY of it to be acceptable – neither the abuse of children, nor any use of one’s sexuality outside of the marital relationship, nor the sin of sodomy, nor the entering of clerics into intimate sexual relationships at all, nor the abuse and coercion by those with authority.
Taking no prisoners.
While recent credible accusations of child sexual abuse by Archbishop McCarrick have brought a whole slew of issues to light, long-ignored was the issue of abuse of his power for the sake of homosexual gratification.

It is time to admit that there is a homosexual subculture within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church that is wreaking great devastation in the vineyard of the Lord.
He urges any victims, past or present, to report to secular law enforcement. No more secrets.
Here again, I state, as we have done consistently, if you have knowledge of any sort of criminal abuse of children by someone in the Church, contact law enforcement. If you need help in contacting law enforcement contact our Victim’s Assistance Coordinator and she will help connect you with the best resources. If you are an adult victim of sexual abuse from childhood, we still encourage you to reach out to law enforcement first, but even if you don’t want to, please still reach out to us.
He urges all of us to make reparations, join in the spiritual battle.
Finally, I ask you all to join me and the entire clergy of the Diocese of Madison in making public and private acts of reparation to the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for all the sins of sexual depravity committed by members of the clergy and episcopacy.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:48 am

+JMJ+
Del wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:50 am
My bishop has put on the armor and grabbed the sword.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bisho ... -in-church

He's not shying away from the battle that needs to be fought. It starts with naming the problem at the core.

[…]

Taking no prisoners.

[…]

He urges all of us to make reparations, join in the spiritual battle.

[…]
Somehow, you've managed to conjure shades of the 54 Day Holy Face Novena for Our President.

Make it stop.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycMdhsEVWrY
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by durangopipe » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 am

durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
I wonder if the uptick in the focus on homosexuality is because of how downplayed it had been in the past? At least that's the vibe I'm getting.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by durangopipe » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am

tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
I wonder if the uptick in the focus on homosexuality is because of how downplayed it had been in the past? At least that's the vibe I'm getting.
Yes, I got that sense, too, Tuttle.

But as the video shows, girls were abused as well and the sins of pedophilia and dishonesty (the cover up) should not be lost in focusing on and speaking out about rooting out the acceptance and secrecy of non-celibate homosexuality among the clergy.

This would allow great sin to remain minimized.

Only God can judge, but it would seem that the greatest harm here was done to the young faithful whose trust in clergy was violated and whose pain and suffering were hidden and minimized to protect the church - young girls as well as boys.

And this, I believe,is what the Pope is addressing and some of the faithful layman and clergy continue to be in denial about.
Last edited by durangopipe on Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:32 am

durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am
tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
I wonder if the uptick in the focus on homosexuality is because of how downplayed it had been in the past? At least that's the vibe I'm getting.
Yes, I got that sense, too, Tuttle.

But as the video shows, girls were abused as well and the sins of pedophilia and dishonesty (the cover up) should not be lost in focusing on and speaking out about rooting out the acceptance and secrecy of homosexuality among the clergy.

This would allow great sin to remain minimized.

Only God can judge, but it would seem that the greatest harm here was done to the young faithful whose trust in clergy was violated and whose pain and suffering were hidden and minimized to protect the church - young girls as well as boys.

And this, I believe,is what the Pope is addressing and some of the faithful laymen and clergy continue to be in denial about.
This is a problem for this whole mess: many can't see the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia. You should read some of the older posts that survived the purging.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:42 am

UncleBob wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:32 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am
tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
I wonder if the uptick in the focus on homosexuality is because of how downplayed it had been in the past? At least that's the vibe I'm getting.
Yes, I got that sense, too, Tuttle.

But as the video shows, girls were abused as well and the sins of pedophilia and dishonesty (the cover up) should not be lost in focusing on and speaking out about rooting out the acceptance and secrecy of homosexuality among the clergy.

This would allow great sin to remain minimized.

Only God can judge, but it would seem that the greatest harm here was done to the young faithful whose trust in clergy was violated and whose pain and suffering were hidden and minimized to protect the church - young girls as well as boys.

And this, I believe,is what the Pope is addressing and some of the faithful laymen and clergy continue to be in denial about.
This is a problem for this whole mess: many can't see the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia. You should read some of the older posts that survived the purging.
Again, emphasizing something, focusing on something, in contrast to another, doesn't mean one can't see the difference between the two. Especially if one sin is virtually despised by everyone (pedophilia) and another is heartily accepted by many (homosexuality). It is viable to draw a link between the two. Like someone would with Greed and Theft or Abuse and Murder. Just because some people see a link between the two doesn't mean they are unable to differentiate them.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:54 am

tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:42 am
UncleBob wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:32 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am
tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
I wonder if the uptick in the focus on homosexuality is because of how downplayed it had been in the past? At least that's the vibe I'm getting.
Yes, I got that sense, too, Tuttle.

But as the video shows, girls were abused as well and the sins of pedophilia and dishonesty (the cover up) should not be lost in focusing on and speaking out about rooting out the acceptance and secrecy of homosexuality among the clergy.

This would allow great sin to remain minimized.

Only God can judge, but it would seem that the greatest harm here was done to the young faithful whose trust in clergy was violated and whose pain and suffering were hidden and minimized to protect the church - young girls as well as boys.

And this, I believe,is what the Pope is addressing and some of the faithful laymen and clergy continue to be in denial about.
This is a problem for this whole mess: many can't see the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia. You should read some of the older posts that survived the purging.
Again, emphasizing something, focusing on something, in contrast to another, doesn't mean one can't see the difference between the two. Especially if one sin is virtually despised by everyone (pedophilia) and another is heartily accepted by many (homosexuality). It is viable to draw a link between the two. Like someone would with Greed and Theft or Abuse and Murder. Just because some people see a link between the two doesn't mean they are unable to differentiate them.
I agree except that in order to fix the problem over the long-term, the RCC folks will need to focus on the actual problem of pedophilia and how pedophiles think vs. homosexuals.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:59 am

tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
I wonder if the uptick in the focus on homosexuality is because of how downplayed it had been in the past? At least that's the vibe I'm getting.
What happened:
1) Some talented and charismatic gay men got themselves ordained. They rose in the ranks of the hierarchy while hiding double lives. (Cardinal Spellman, 1940's)
2) These men became the gate-keepers of who entered seminaries and who were rejected.
3) They groomed their favorites and guided them into the priesthood, upward in the ranks, and encouraged them to live double lives. (Cardinal McCarrick, 1960's)
4) This second generation became the new gatekeepers, grooming and encouraging. These formed circles and cadres, protecting each other.
5) This generation, who were abused and imprinted as altar boys, repeated the cycle. (70's & 80's)
6) Seminaries became safe places for gay men. Any student who complained was admonished, told to keep silent, or washed out.
7) A large number of gay men entered parishes as priests. Many were imprinted on altar boys by their own first sexual experiences.

This unique dynamic is the reason why priest sexual abuse cases are so different from the rest of the world. Most secular pedophile victims are pre-pubescent girls. But 80% of the Catholic priests' victims were adolescent boys.

When the crisis first broke in America (2002), we pressed the abusers out of ministry. Then we investigated all of the seminaries and rooted out the gay faculty and students.

What we are discovering now is that our work is not done. We have to root out the gay priests -- those who were not abusing children, but who were still quietly living double lives of sexual sin. AND WE NEED TO ROOT OUT THE GAY BISHOPS AND CARDINALS, who were the lynch pins of recruiting, protecting, and covering up.

For many years, rumors of a Lavender Mafia within the Church was the stuff of tinfoil-hat conspiracy nut jobs. This time, they were right.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

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Cleon
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Cleon » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:04 am

tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:42 am
UncleBob wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:32 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am
tuttle wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:50 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... ical-abuse

To focus on homosexuality as “the” sin that must be rooted out misses much of the sin, I fear.
I wonder if the uptick in the focus on homosexuality is because of how downplayed it had been in the past? At least that's the vibe I'm getting.
Yes, I got that sense, too, Tuttle.

But as the video shows, girls were abused as well and the sins of pedophilia and dishonesty (the cover up) should not be lost in focusing on and speaking out about rooting out the acceptance and secrecy of homosexuality among the clergy.

This would allow great sin to remain minimized.

Only God can judge, but it would seem that the greatest harm here was done to the young faithful whose trust in clergy was violated and whose pain and suffering were hidden and minimized to protect the church - young girls as well as boys.

And this, I believe,is what the Pope is addressing and some of the faithful laymen and clergy continue to be in denial about.
This is a problem for this whole mess: many can't see the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia. You should read some of the older posts that survived the purging.
Again, emphasizing something, focusing on something, in contrast to another, doesn't mean one can't see the difference between the two. Especially if one sin is virtually despised by everyone (pedophilia) and another is heartily accepted by many (homosexuality). It is viable to draw a link between the two. Like someone would with Greed and Theft or Abuse and Murder. Just because some people see a link between the two doesn't mean they are unable to differentiate them.
I don't know why everyone is always quick to split this up into two fully separate acts? They overlap in that grey area in the middle that everyone supposedly loves, except when it doesn't suit them. I suppose it's to protect consenting homosexuals to make sure they don't get covered with the blanket of pedophilia, which can be a viable concern.

I maintain that a full grown man that sexually abuses a little boy has committed both an act of homosexuality and pedophilia.It is sin upon sin. Some men struggle with homosexuality as adults because they were abused by men as children. I say "some" because I know some.
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

"More people need to put their big boy britches on." - JMG

"Dang, a pipe slap." - JimVH

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