I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:50 am

+JMJ+
Jester wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:39 am
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Pope Francis on Sunday lamented that “the wealthy few” enjoy what, “in justice, belongs to all”
The wealthy few enjoy what nobody deserves. In justice, we all deserve the wrath of God. I find it strange that the Popes theology is lining up a bit with Joel Osteen here.
Thanx for further confirmation of what I'd earlier said to Del about Zero Tolerance Border Policy being an artifact of Calvinist absolutization of private property rights.

It seems to me that the essential injustice of the unilateralization of power-relations in ZTP and in the more-recent Asylum Denial Proclamation — as being the relation obtaining between a Sovereign Nation who "enjoys" holding all the cards and an excluded, disenfranchised, powerless Other who "deserves nothing" — could barely be made more clear and stark.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Jester » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:07 am

wosbald wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:50 am
+JMJ+
Jester wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:39 am
Image
Pope Francis on Sunday lamented that “the wealthy few” enjoy what, “in justice, belongs to all”
The wealthy few enjoy what nobody deserves. In justice, we all deserve the wrath of God. I find it strange that the Popes theology is lining up a bit with Joel Osteen here.
Thanx for further confirmation of what I'd earlier said to Del about Zero Tolerance Border Policy being an artifact of Calvinist absolutization of private property rights.

It seems to me that the essential injustice of the unilateralization of power-relations in ZTP and in the more-recent Asylum Denial Proclamation — as being the relation obtaining between a Sovereign Nation who "enjoys" holding all the cards and an excluded, disenfranchised, powerless Other who "deserves nothing" — could barely be made more clear and stark.
You read into all that on my observation of the pope saying the wealthy enjoy what belongs to all? I was pointing out that what the wealthy enjoy belongs to no one and that nobody deserves what they have.

You also somehow linked this to ZTP and Calvinists? :egor:

This mindset the pope has is flawed. The rich are no longer allowed to be generous. In fact they owe it to the poor because the rich stole it. It is no longer charity, it is now reparations. If I disagree with the popes position on why there is inequality you call me disenfranchised. i am merely saying that the pope is wrong to call the poor entitled.

There are a good amount of rich people who know they deserve nothing and give freely with an open hand. Sometimes the best part of giving is giving to people who don't deserve it. Giving to a child on Christmas who has been disobedient all year is a great picture of the gospel. Christ gave to us freely not because we deserved it. We most certainly never could deserve it.

Are we to mix in the generous rich with the greedy and force their wicked hand? If the pope has his way we are no longer giving as Christ gave to the church but we are now giving because people are entitled.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 am

+JMJ+
Jester wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:07 am
wosbald wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:50 am
Jester wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:39 am
Image
Pope Francis on Sunday lamented that “the wealthy few” enjoy what, “in justice, belongs to all”
The wealthy few enjoy what nobody deserves. In justice, we all deserve the wrath of God. I find it strange that the Popes theology is lining up a bit with Joel Osteen here.
Thanx for further confirmation of what I'd earlier said to Del about Zero Tolerance Border Policy being an artifact of Calvinist absolutization of private property rights.

It seems to me that the essential injustice of the unilateralization of power-relations in ZTP and in the more-recent Asylum Denial Proclamation — as being the relation obtaining between a Sovereign Nation who "enjoys" holding all the cards and an excluded, disenfranchised, powerless Other who "deserves nothing" — could barely be made more clear and stark.
You read into all that on my observation of the pope saying the wealthy enjoy what belongs to all? …

You also somehow linked this to ZTP and Calvinists? :egor:

[…]
Yes. And yes.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:28 pm

Excellent demonstration, Wosbald.

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No, HappySerf won't complain as long as you institute the very policies that make sure he and his progeny can not rise. Why, you ask? Because we have programmed him to believe he is actually in charge and the world relies on him to submit in order to continue to function! Yes, thanks to His Personal Cross protocol and the way it interfaces with the Everybody Else is Going to Hell for Trying to Interfere Matrix, HappySerf truly and firmly opposes any and all leveling of the playing field in a way that would benefit him. No, nobody ever forced him to spend any money at WalMart, he says, cheerfully shopping at the only store he can afford. Make a budget!

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HappySerf. The way of the future.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:04 pm

And now a brief commercial message from our sponsors
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:44 am

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackback: pg 83 / pg 83


Was Rome wrong to block U.S. bishops from voting on sex abuse proposals? [Opinion]
Image
Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of Galveston-Houston, center, leads the opening prayer Nov. 13 during the fall general assembly of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in Baltimore. Also pictured are Archbishop Jose H. Gomez of Los Angeles, vice president of the USCCB, and Msgr. J. Brian Bransfield, general secretary. (CNS photo/Tennessee Register/Rick Musacchio)

[…]

I think it is obvious that Pope Francis "gets" the evil of sex abuse: His decision to ask for the resignation of the entire episcopate of Chile signifies that. Not since Napoleon's Concordat with Pope Pius VII in 1801 had an entire episcopate been sacked. We also know that the pope understands the crisis is one of clericalism and hierarchic malpractice: Pope Benedict was significantly better on sex abuse than Pope John Paul II, but only Francis was willing to demand the resignation of bishops who had been negligent in confronting abuse. Bishop Robert Finn is no longer the bishop of Kansas City-St. Joseph, and Archbishop John Nienstedt is no longer the archbishop of St. Paul and Minneapolis.

But, I suspect the pope does not understand the media culture in which the U.S. church operates. In this regard, I suspect he is like many U.S. bishops. As Robert Mickens convincingly argued in La Croix International, the U.S. bishops do not control their own communications with the people in the pews. That task has been ceded to a rightwing media empire that includes EWTN, the National Catholic Register and the Catholic News Agency, with help from First Things. Those bishops who have not realized this are largely those who are fine with it, which is really scary.

And, in most dioceses, if there is a newspaper on the kitchen table it is not the diocesan newspaper, but a secular newspaper, one that probably no longer even has a dedicated religion reporter. For the average Catholic, who doesn't subscribe to either NCR, who watches ESPN not EWTN, the bishops need the secular media to communicate with those Catholics.

I also wonder if the pope grasps how differently the American mind, and especially the American religious mind, works from that found in Catholic cultures. Pragmatism and an idolatrous belief in the power of logic run through every synapse of the American psyche. In the weeks after Pearl Harbor, Winston Churchill came to the United States for consultations with President Franklin Roosevelt. They held long meetings with their staffs, both political and military. In his war memoirs, Churchill writes: …

[…]

Perhaps Cardinal DiNardo, who was in Rome for the entire month of October, should have explained the proposals to the pope with a view towards helping him understand the ways his legalistic and managerial proposals might shape the culture of the church in beneficial ways. Perhaps. I get the feeling that DiNardo and the pope do not see eye-to-eye on very much and after watching the debacle in Baltimore two weeks ago, no one, including the pope, could express much confidence in DiNardo's leadership.

I remain convinced that the pope was justified in squashing the vote. The proposals, in the final analysis, did little to address the clerical culture the bishops sustain. Still, I wish Rome would get into the habit of explaining its decisions more fully. Silence has its spiritual utility, to be sure, and this pope seems determined to reorient all of us away from the cultural norms of modernity and back to the essential spiritual norms of our faith. The bishops got into this mess in no small part because they listened to their lawyers, and listening to their communications' experts will not get them out of it. They must do the spiritual work the pope wants them to do. But, pastorally, the Holy Father needs to see how his decision demoralized many faithful Catholics. In so doing, he has raised the stakes for the February meeting of the presidents of all the world's bishops' conferences. That meeting must be successful in ways even we poor pragmatic, logical, litigious Americans can grasp.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:40 am

+JMJ+

Müller calls out Viganò, US bishops in new interview [In-Depth]
Image
Cardinal Gerhard Muller, former prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, looks on during a Vatican news conference Oct. 25, 2016. (Credit: CNS photo/Paul Haring)

ROME — The Vatican’s former doctrinal chief in a new interview issued a strong critique of both a former papal ambassador who asked Pope Francis to resign, and the U.S. bishops’ decision to move on sex abuse without proper consultation from the Holy See.

In the interview, given to veteran Vatican journalist Andrea Tornielli and published Nov. 27 on Italian site Vatican Insider, German Cardinal Gerhard Müller, former prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, spoke out against the polemics that have developed between different Church factions, and said he believes Francis is doing everything he can to address clerical sexual abuse.

“No one has the right to indict the pope or ask him to resign!” Müller said, referring to an Aug. 26 statement made by Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, who served as papal envoy to the U.S. from 2011-2016, accusing Francis of ignoring warnings about the sexual misconduct of ex-Cardinal Theodore McCarrick an asking him to resign.

“Clearly it is possible to have different opinions on the existing problems and on the ways to resolve them, but we must discuss them according to the roles of each and in the end,” Müller said, adding that it is the cardinals who ought to help the pope or ask him for explanations.

However, these conversations “must take place in private, in the proper places, and without ever making a public controversy,” he said, adding that such “attacks” ultimately “end up questioning the credibility of the Church and her mission.”

Müller said he is personally convinced that the pope “is doing everything possible” to address the clerical abuse scandals and to push priests to adopt a “new spirituality,” acting according to Christ in pursuing what is best for children and young people.

Müller’s defense of Francis may come as a surprise by some, as he has typically been seen as opposed to the pontiff on matters of doctrine and the Church’s moral teaching. Müller, who oversaw the Vatican’s doctrinal office from 2012-2017, said he was surprised when his mandate ended to hear that it would not be renewed, and that Francis had been casual in how he handled it, without giving much notice.

At the time, many pegged the pope’s decision not to renew Müller’s mandate on difference between the two over Francis’ 2016 apostolic exhortation, Amoris Laetitia, which opened a cautious door for divorced and remarried Catholics without an annulment to receive communion.

However, in his interview, Müller condemned the polarization inside the Church. Addressing allegations by some that the abuse crisis is being used as a weapon to fight internal battles, he said the entire ecclesial community must work together to overcome the sexual abuse crisis, which is “hurting the credibility of the Church.”

“Unfortunately, we have these groups, these ‘parties’ - the so-called ‘progressives’ and ‘conservatives,’” he said. “We are all united in the revealed faith, and not by the prejudices of political ideologies. We are not a political entity.”

Müller voiced hope that Pope Francis would make steps toward reconciliation, and suggested establishing a commission of close cardinal confidants to study the abuse crisis in the U.S. and make proposals that go beyond “oppositions, struggles between factions, mutual suspicions, and propaganda carried out by media campaigns.”

[…]
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:32 pm

+JMJ+

Inter-Thread Trackback: pg 66


Retired pope corrects 'false insinuation' by German theologian
Image
Pope Benedict XVI greets Rabbi Riccardo Di Segni, the chief rabbi of Rome, during his visit to the main synagogue in Rome in this 2010 file photo. The now retired pontiff sent a letter correcting a German theologian who implied that Pope Benedict encouraged the evangelization of the Jewish people as a mission. (Credit: Paul Haring/CNS)

ROME — Retired Pope Benedict XVI sent a letter correcting a German theologian who implied that the former pontiff encouraged the evangelization of the Jewish people as a mission.

In a message sent to the German monthly, Herder Korrespondenz, Benedict responded to an article in which Michael Bohnke, the theologian, criticized the pope and accused him of advocating proselytism.

Judaism and Christianity are “two ways of interpreting the Scriptures,” the former pope said. The accusation in the article is “grotesque nonsense and has nothing to do with what I said about it. I therefore reject his article as a completely false insinuation.”

According to Vatican News, Bohnke panned a document published in 2015 by the Commission for Religious Relations With the Jews.

The document, which reflected on Catholic-Jewish relations on the 50th anniversary of Vatican II document, Nostra Aetate, was later published in the German theological journal Communio in 2017.

In it, Benedict said that while there is no specific mission to evangelize Jews, “Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner.”

Bohnke said the former pope lacked understanding with regard to Judaism while ignoring the suffering inflicted upon Jews by Christians.

However, the pope addressed Bohnke’s criticism, saying that his words did not emphasize a “mission” to convert Jews, but rather dialogue.

Christ’s mandate to his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all peoples and cultures, Benedict said, “is universal with one exception: A mission to the Jews was not foreseen and not necessary because they alone, among all peoples, knew the ‘unknown God.'”

Christians, he added, are called to dialogue with Jews about Jesus and whether he is the Messiah promised to the people of Israel.

According to Vatican News, Bohnke panned a document published in 2015 by the Commission for Religious Relations With the Jews.

The document, which reflected on Catholic-Jewish relations on the 50th anniversary of Vatican II document, Nostra Aetate, was later published in the German theological journal Communio in 2017.

In it, Benedict said that while there is no specific mission to evangelize Jews, “Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner.”

Bohnke said the former pope lacked understanding with regard to Judaism while ignoring the suffering inflicted upon Jews by Christians.

However, the pope addressed Bohnke’s criticism, saying that his words did not emphasize a “mission” to convert Jews, but rather dialogue.

Christ’s mandate to his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all peoples and cultures, Benedict said, “is universal with one exception: A mission to the Jews was not foreseen and not necessary because they alone, among all peoples, knew the ‘unknown God.'”

Christians, he added, are called to dialogue with Jews about Jesus and whether he is the Messiah promised to the people of Israel.

To take up this dialogue once again, Benedict said, is “the duty given us at this time.”
"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:52 pm

wosbald wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:32 pm
+JMJ+

Inter-Thread Trackback: pg 66


Retired pope corrects 'false insinuation' by German theologian
Image
Pope Benedict XVI greets Rabbi Riccardo Di Segni, the chief rabbi of Rome, during his visit to the main synagogue in Rome in this 2010 file photo. The now retired pontiff sent a letter correcting a German theologian who implied that Pope Benedict encouraged the evangelization of the Jewish people as a mission. (Credit: Paul Haring/CNS)

ROME — Retired Pope Benedict XVI sent a letter correcting a German theologian who implied that the former pontiff encouraged the evangelization of the Jewish people as a mission.

In a message sent to the German monthly, Herder Korrespondenz, Benedict responded to an article in which Michael Bohnke, the theologian, criticized the pope and accused him of advocating proselytism.

Judaism and Christianity are “two ways of interpreting the Scriptures,” the former pope said. The accusation in the article is “grotesque nonsense and has nothing to do with what I said about it. I therefore reject his article as a completely false insinuation.”

According to Vatican News, Bohnke panned a document published in 2015 by the Commission for Religious Relations With the Jews.

The document, which reflected on Catholic-Jewish relations on the 50th anniversary of Vatican II document, Nostra Aetate, was later published in the German theological journal Communio in 2017.

In it, Benedict said that while there is no specific mission to evangelize Jews, “Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner.”

Bohnke said the former pope lacked understanding with regard to Judaism while ignoring the suffering inflicted upon Jews by Christians.

However, the pope addressed Bohnke’s criticism, saying that his words did not emphasize a “mission” to convert Jews, but rather dialogue.

Christ’s mandate to his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all peoples and cultures, Benedict said, “is universal with one exception: A mission to the Jews was not foreseen and not necessary because they alone, among all peoples, knew the ‘unknown God.'”

Christians, he added, are called to dialogue with Jews about Jesus and whether he is the Messiah promised to the people of Israel.

According to Vatican News, Bohnke panned a document published in 2015 by the Commission for Religious Relations With the Jews.

The document, which reflected on Catholic-Jewish relations on the 50th anniversary of Vatican II document, Nostra Aetate, was later published in the German theological journal Communio in 2017.

In it, Benedict said that while there is no specific mission to evangelize Jews, “Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner.”

Bohnke said the former pope lacked understanding with regard to Judaism while ignoring the suffering inflicted upon Jews by Christians.

However, the pope addressed Bohnke’s criticism, saying that his words did not emphasize a “mission” to convert Jews, but rather dialogue.

Christ’s mandate to his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all peoples and cultures, Benedict said, “is universal with one exception: A mission to the Jews was not foreseen and not necessary because they alone, among all peoples, knew the ‘unknown God.'”

Christians, he added, are called to dialogue with Jews about Jesus and whether he is the Messiah promised to the people of Israel.

To take up this dialogue once again, Benedict said, is “the duty given us at this time.”
Germans arguing over Jews is hardly news. :zzz:
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:53 am

+JMJ+

In defence of truth and mercy
Image
“Foggy path”, Leonid Afremov (www.afremov.com)

On the Holy Father’s teachings in ‘Amoris Laetitia’

[…]

This takes us to the controversial chapter eight [of Amoris Laetitia], and which for me, was the critical reason I felt compelled to enter the debate. Firstly, there can be no denying that it is a challenging text. It faces head on the most difficult cases, involving divorced and civilly remarried Catholics and the varied pastoral care that can be offered to them; it advances in a most careful manner the teaching of St John Paul in Familiaris Consortio, which acknowledged the necessity of discernment for cases of an irregular un𝗂on. There is no doubt however, that for the lax or the rigorist, there is the temptation to see an abandoning of 2000 years of Catholic teaching; but in reality neither is true. Pope Francis has simply utilised his power to bind and loose4 and — with the certain authority of Christ to do so5 — enabled pastors to discern with a person or couple the way forward which may include the “help of the Sacraments.”6 This is far removed however from a general change in sacramental discipline which is not possible due to the possibility of mortal sin and scandal.

Pope Francis’ realism and utilisation of authentic moral theology — which recognizes that the degree of imputability may be diminished greatly or even removed altogether for sins of grave matter — has led him to discern that there will be souls involved in irregular unions who will benefit from the sacraments of confession and Holy Communion as divine medicine for their spiritual healing. This will include not only those who manage to live as brother and sister, but those who — possibly because of the fear of further sin engulfing the family home and their children — cannot reach that goal yet. The Holy Father proposes as a firm foundation for these souls, the law of gradualness taught by St John Paul II which encourages them to begin a step by step growth in their spiritual life which with the grace of God can help them eventually leave the sinful element of their un𝗂on.

For the rigorist held in a straightjacket of fear, this papal act of mercy cannot be possible for several reasons: 1) they reject the supreme authority of Christ’s Vicar to grant this, 2) they ignore or even reject authentic moral theology on sin and guilt as taught in the Catechism, and 3) they lack any nuance in the question of what constitutes a firm purpose of amendment. For Pope Francis, however, rigidity “grieves the Holy Spirit”7, it hides pride and insecurity and resembles the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. The rigid don’t care much for discerning individual problems and situations; they prefer to classify objectively grave sinners as one group without discerning subjective reasons for a given situation. It seems to me that in a time of great moral turmoil with so many confused and weak souls, the Holy Spirit has sent the first Jesuit Pope armed with the great Jesuitical tool of discernment in order to loosen the fetters of the Church — certainly not in a doctrinal sense — but in those ways that were detrimental to evangelising in an age of “silent apostasy.”8 The Church cannot act like a Mother if the Mother never speaks to some of her children.

[…]

Chapter eight of Amoris Laetitia must be seen not as a rupture — as Pope Francis has now clearly taught — but in total continuity and harmony with past magisterial teaching. How can we be confident this is the case? Firstly, because no doctrine has been tampered with: the indissolubility of marriage remains, the doctrine on mortal sin remains, the horror of sacrilegious reception of Holy Communion remains (cf. 1 Cor 11:27, 29), and the gravity of all acts of adultery remain. Alongside this, we have an authentic extension and application of mercy for sinners who, recognizing their sinful situation, are conscious of the need for the Lord. They make their own the words of St John Paul II: “Were we to disregard the Eucharist, how could we overcome our own deficiency?”11 There can be no rupture when the maternal instincts of Holy Mother Church seek to rescue souls who are genuine in their desire to change, and when this maternal tenderness is manifest in the will of the “sweet Christ on earth.”12 It is simply not possible.

Pope Francis, we can say, marries three essential spiritual elements in his teaching on reintegrating the divorced and civilly remarried into the life of the Church: 1) Ignatian discernment, 2) Thomistic doctrine on morality, and 3) a Franciscan love for the (spiritually) poor. He also reveals a beautiful manifestation of the charism of Peter: he is teacher and pastor, one who, rather than allow doctrine to go stale on a shelf, utilises everything at his disposal to go in search of the lost sheep and bring them home.

[…]
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:49 am

You know, Wosbald, I’m rather sick of being gaslit by the men doing mental gymnastics. I’m not “rigid”, nor am I a moralist, nor am I neo-pelagian nor copraphagic in tendency. We all struggle with chastity, but we can’t simply remake the Church into our own image and call ourselves Catholics. So I get that it’s tough if you have same-sex attraction to remain chaste or to remain celibate if you’ve been divorced. I’m not sure that I could do it. I have a hard enough time as is. But I’m pretty darned sure that I wouldn’t demand the Catechism get a rewrite because I couldn’t keep from rooting around. And I’m pretty damned sick of being insulted by Fr Martin, LGBTQ SJ, Pope Francis, and the ultramontanist piano teacher that wrote that article for not lightly acquiescing to major logical somersaults.

I don’t have a dog in the race, in one sense. I’m your typical nearly celibate married guy and I’m likely to remain that way. But I’m annoyed by the continual bleating of those who reject the call to be in the world and not of it, preferring to be of the world and demand the Church approve of their choices. Annulments exist for the very reason Chapter 8 was written.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:19 pm

+JMJ+

Cardinal Napier denounces Raymond Arroyo
Image
Cardinal Wilfrid F. Napier (CNS photo/Paul Haring)

The cardinal compared the World Over host to 'Ian Paisley and his ilk'

Cardinal Wilfrid Napier has denounced Catholic broadcaster Raymond Arroyo, comparing him to Ulster Protestant leader Ian Paisley.

In a tweet, the cardinal said Arroyo’s show The World Over was like a “throwback to the 1960’s & 70’s” when radical Protestants “fulminated against [the] Catholic Faith in general, & [the] Pope in particular!”

Image

Raymond Arroyo has achieved prominence with his weekly EWTN talk show, which takes a largely conservative line and has been critical of Pope Francis and his allies.

His interview with Bishop Martin Holley, who was removed from the Diocese of Memphis earlier this year, was criticised by another bishop, who described the show as “deplorable” and “fake news”.

[…]

Raymond Arroyo appeared to respond to Cardinal Napier’s tweet later on Monday:

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"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Goose55 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:52 pm

Did I read it right? This morning I saw a news blurb and it said that Francis used to be a bouncer at a club in was it Argentina?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:54 pm

+JMJ+
Goose55 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:52 pm
Did I read it right? This morning I saw a news blurb and it said that Francis used to be a bouncer at a club in was it Argentina?
LMGTFY
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Goose55 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:17 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:54 pm
+JMJ+
Goose55 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:52 pm
Did I read it right? This morning I saw a news blurb and it said that Francis used to be a bouncer at a club in was it Argentina?
LMGTFY
THat was cool. Thanks
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:53 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:19 pm
+JMJ+

Cardinal Napier denounces Raymond Arroyo

I don't really care about Cardinal Napier of South Africa or Ian Paisley of Ulster. Which leaves just this one useful paragraph in the whole article:
[Arroyo's] interview with Bishop Martin Holley, who was removed from the Diocese of Memphis earlier this year, was criticised by another bishop, who described the show as “deplorable” and “fake news”.
And that paragraph only mentions a couple of quoted words from some un-named "bishop" ("sources say"..... although might have been Hillary, or it could have been Trump).
============================================

I've been busting on Raymond Arroyo for decades.... but how is this link newsworthy?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:34 am

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:49 am
[…]

… Annulments exist for the very reason Chapter 8 [of Amoris Laetitia] was written.
I've been kickin' this around every whichway for the last few days, and — assuming that I'm reading you aright — it seems to me that reducing Chapter 8 to "Annulments" would imply the consequence that Acts of the Ordinary Magisterium (i.e. those of both Chapter 8 and the Buenos Aires bishops' interpretation) would be tagged as being Catholically meaningless.

Which, itself, I think would be theologically untenable. It seems to me that every Act of the Magisterium must have some sort of significance, regardless of how relativized to the totality of Catholic teaching that significance may well be. IOW, the Magisterium can't have brain-farts.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Jester » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:06 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:54 pm
+JMJ+
Goose55 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:52 pm
Did I read it right? This morning I saw a news blurb and it said that Francis used to be a bouncer at a club in was it Argentina?
LMGTFY
You lost me at step 2.
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We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:11 pm

wosbald wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:34 am
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:49 am
[…]

… Annulments exist for the very reason Chapter 8 [of Amoris Laetitia] was written.
I've been kickin' this around every whichway for the last few days, and — assuming that I'm reading you aright — it seems to me that reducing Chapter 8 to "Annulments" would imply the consequence that Acts of the Ordinary Magisterium (i.e. those of both Chapter 8 and the Buenos Aires bishops' interpretation) would be tagged as being Catholically meaningless.

Which, itself, I think would be theologically untenable. It seems to me that every Act of the Magisterium must have some sort of significance, regardless of how relativized to the totality of Catholic teaching that significance may well be. IOW, the Magisterium can't have brain-farts.
Quick gloss on my part, of course, but hat's the point/problem. I view Chapter 8, or more correctly, part of Chapter 8, as incompatible with the Magisterium. I can't be right, but I sure don't understand the compatibility.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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