I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:16 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:13 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:55 pm
Of course, La Civilta Cattolica is a Jesuit journal.
Just sayin'
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:35 pm

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 78 / pg 78 / pg 79 / pg 79 / pg 88


Will the Vatican's accord with China reweave the unity of the church? [Opinion]
Image
Worshippers prepare for the Palm Sunday procession March 25, 2018, outside a Catholic church in Youtong, China. On Sept. 22, 2018, the Vatican announced that all of the Catholic bishops in China are in full communion with the pope. (CNS photo/Damir Sagolj, Reuters)

Jesuit Fr. Antonio Spadaro has come out with a new book on the Church and China, his second such volume, the fruit of a collaboration between La Civilta Cattolica, which Spadaro edits, and Georgetown University. I have not received a copy of the book yet, but the preface was written by Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin and I have secured an English translation of his text.

There are many interesting aspects to Parolin's preface, but the most striking is the fact that he situates the new book, and indeed the rapprochement between the Holy See and the People's Republic of China itself, in the context of Pope Benedict XV's encyclical on the missions, Maximum illud, issued exactly one hundred years ago. Parolin writes that Benedict was calling forth in his day what Pope Francis would call in our day a "pastoral conversion." Parolin writes:
Maximum illud reflected above all the great commitment of Benedict XV for peace in the dramatic context of the First World War, which he rightly defined as "useless slaughter." But it was also pervaded by a projection of the global proclamation of the Gospel that recognized the heroism of many missionaries and realistically accepted the limits of the work carried out to bring the Gospel to all, while calling for a return to the spiritual and pastoral sources of the mission to the people, ad gentes.
Pope Benedict XV was very concerned about the nationalistic impulses that had just convulsed Europe, to be sure, but he was also concerned about the way nationalistic ambitions had infected efforts to preach the Gospel, including in China. "[T]he Apostolic Letter contained a strong and clear message: the missions are not an extension of Western Christianity, but the expression of a Church that wants to be truly universal," the cardinal writes. The Church paid a heavy price, Parolin acknowledges, when its proclamation of the Gospel was made to wear Western attire and approach missionary lands with a colonizing mentality.

Parolin's words are important because so much of the criticism of last year's accord between the People's Republic of China and the Vatican was based on precisely these kinds of political and ecclesial categories. Leading the way was George Weigel, who — surprise, surprise — contrasted the outreach to China with St. Pope John Paul II's way of dealing with communist regimes in Eastern Europe. "A Catholicism that has become identified with a discarded communist regime, because the Vatican once conceded the communists a significant role in the Church's internal life, will be at a grave evangelical disadvantage in the post-communist China of the future, where evangelical Protestants and Mormons will be very, very active," Weigel huffed. "And that evangelical concern, I would respectfully remind Cardinal Parolin, has long been the core of my argument against granting the Chinese communist regime a significant role in the choice of bishops." Do it John Paul II's way or don't do it all is Weigel's perennial mantra. He leveled similar criticism against Pope Benedict XVI after his trip to Cuba.

[…]

I am no expert on China, but it seems obvious that no one knows precisely how Chinese society will change in the years ahead, how its political and economic systems will develop, what freedoms will be afforded its people. But, it is foolish to think that just because something worked in eastern Europe it must become the model everywhere. Besides, one of the principal impediments to evangelization in China was the existence of two churches, side by side, one in communion with Rome and the other not. The primary impetus for the Vatican's accord with the government was, in large part, to begin to heal that divide, to "reweave the unity of the Church" in Parolin's felicitous phrase.

This pope has made dialogue a leitmotif of his papacy, and so it should not surprise anyone that he is also committed to dialogue in regards to both healing the divisions within the Chinese Church and proclaiming the Gospel in that country. Dialogue is necessary not least because a universal Church is made up of many local churches where, if it is truly alive, the Gospel is inculturated. The universality of the Church itself makes dialogue normative. Parolin writes that "this universality [of the Church] pushes the Holy See to nurture no distrust or hostility toward any country, but to follow the way of dialogue in order to reduce distances, overcome misunderstandings, and avoid new divisions. The proclamation of the Gospel in China cannot be separated from a stance of respect, esteem, and trust toward the Chinese people and their legitimate state authorities."

[…]

I do not pretend to know if the Vatican's accord with China will, one hundred or two hundred years hence, appear to have been a seminal achievement leading to evangelization in that great country, to say nothing of greater collaboration on issues of shared concern such as protecting the environment. Or, perhaps, people will look back and see it as a misstep, something that led to unfortunate consequences. It is not given to any of us to foretell the future. I do know that if it succeeds or fails, it will be on its own terms, not be because it diverged from the geo-political views of American neo-cons or eastern European precedents from the 1980s.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:10 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:35 pm
+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 78 / pg 78 / pg 79 / pg 79 / pg 88


Will the Vatican's accord with China reweave the unity of the church? [Opinion]
Image
Worshippers prepare for the Palm Sunday procession March 25, 2018, outside a Catholic church in Youtong, China. On Sept. 22, 2018, the Vatican announced that all of the Catholic bishops in China are in full communion with the pope. (CNS photo/Damir Sagolj, Reuters)

Jesuit Fr. Antonio Spadaro has come out with a new book on the Church and China, his second such volume, the fruit of a collaboration between La Civilta Cattolica, which Spadaro edits, and Georgetown University. I have not received a copy of the book yet, but the preface was written by Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin and I have secured an English translation of his text.

There are many interesting aspects to Parolin's preface, but the most striking is the fact that he situates the new book, and indeed the rapprochement between the Holy See and the People's Republic of China itself, in the context of Pope Benedict XV's encyclical on the missions, Maximum illud, issued exactly one hundred years ago. Parolin writes that Benedict was calling forth in his day what Pope Francis would call in our day a "pastoral conversion." Parolin writes:
Maximum illud reflected above all the great commitment of Benedict XV for peace in the dramatic context of the First World War, which he rightly defined as "useless slaughter." But it was also pervaded by a projection of the global proclamation of the Gospel that recognized the heroism of many missionaries and realistically accepted the limits of the work carried out to bring the Gospel to all, while calling for a return to the spiritual and pastoral sources of the mission to the people, ad gentes.
Pope Benedict XV was very concerned about the nationalistic impulses that had just convulsed Europe, to be sure, but he was also concerned about the way nationalistic ambitions had infected efforts to preach the Gospel, including in China. "[T]he Apostolic Letter contained a strong and clear message: the missions are not an extension of Western Christianity, but the expression of a Church that wants to be truly universal," the cardinal writes. The Church paid a heavy price, Parolin acknowledges, when its proclamation of the Gospel was made to wear Western attire and approach missionary lands with a colonizing mentality.

Parolin's words are important because so much of the criticism of last year's accord between the People's Republic of China and the Vatican was based on precisely these kinds of political and ecclesial categories. Leading the way was George Weigel, who — surprise, surprise — contrasted the outreach to China with St. Pope John Paul II's way of dealing with communist regimes in Eastern Europe. "A Catholicism that has become identified with a discarded communist regime, because the Vatican once conceded the communists a significant role in the Church's internal life, will be at a grave evangelical disadvantage in the post-communist China of the future, where evangelical Protestants and Mormons will be very, very active," Weigel huffed. "And that evangelical concern, I would respectfully remind Cardinal Parolin, has long been the core of my argument against granting the Chinese communist regime a significant role in the choice of bishops." Do it John Paul II's way or don't do it all is Weigel's perennial mantra. He leveled similar criticism against Pope Benedict XVI after his trip to Cuba.

[…]

I am no expert on China, but it seems obvious that no one knows precisely how Chinese society will change in the years ahead, how its political and economic systems will develop, what freedoms will be afforded its people. But, it is foolish to think that just because something worked in eastern Europe it must become the model everywhere. Besides, one of the principal impediments to evangelization in China was the existence of two churches, side by side, one in communion with Rome and the other not. The primary impetus for the Vatican's accord with the government was, in large part, to begin to heal that divide, to "reweave the unity of the Church" in Parolin's felicitous phrase.

This pope has made dialogue a leitmotif of his papacy, and so it should not surprise anyone that he is also committed to dialogue in regards to both healing the divisions within the Chinese Church and proclaiming the Gospel in that country. Dialogue is necessary not least because a universal Church is made up of many local churches where, if it is truly alive, the Gospel is inculturated. The universality of the Church itself makes dialogue normative. Parolin writes that "this universality [of the Church] pushes the Holy See to nurture no distrust or hostility toward any country, but to follow the way of dialogue in order to reduce distances, overcome misunderstandings, and avoid new divisions. The proclamation of the Gospel in China cannot be separated from a stance of respect, esteem, and trust toward the Chinese people and their legitimate state authorities."

[…]

I do not pretend to know if the Vatican's accord with China will, one hundred or two hundred years hence, appear to have been a seminal achievement leading to evangelization in that great country, to say nothing of greater collaboration on issues of shared concern such as protecting the environment. Or, perhaps, people will look back and see it as a misstep, something that led to unfortunate consequences. It is not given to any of us to foretell the future. I do know that if it succeeds or fails, it will be on its own terms, not be because it diverged from the geo-political views of American neo-cons or eastern European precedents from the 1980s.

[…]
Hey, what do you know, its Michael Sean Winters of the National Catholic Reporter. He has a very distinctive style.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Goose55 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:05 pm

So, what is the current word? What is most to like about this Pope?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:13 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:05 pm
So, what is the current word? What is most to like about this Pope?
That he'll probably make the next pope look really, really good?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:29 pm

+JMJ+

Polish cardinal, St. John Paul’s aide, defends pontiff’s record on abuse
Image
Polish Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz prays at the tomb of St. John Paul II in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican May 3, 2011. Cardinal Dziwisz issued a statement March 20 vigorously defending the pontiff from "hurtful and historically untrue" claims that he was "slack" in combating sexual abuse by Catholic clergy. (Credit: CNS photo/L'Osservatore Romano via Reuters)

WARSAW, Poland — A close aide to St. John Paul II has vigorously defended the late pope’s handling of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy and denied accusations that he ignored the problem during his 27-year pontificate.

“Emerging opinions that John Paul II was sluggish in guiding the church’s response to sexual abuse of minors by some clerics are prejudicial and contrary to historical facts — the pope was shocked and had no intention of tolerating the crime of pedophilia,” said Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz, who was the pontiff’s personal secretary for 39 years.

John Paul saw how local churches “dealt with emerging problems and gave help when necessary, often at his own initiative.”

The 79-year-old cardinal, who retired in 2016 after 11 years as archbishop of Krakow, was reacting to media criticisms that the Polish pontiff failed to confront abuse claims when they became widespread in the 1980s.

In a March 20 statement to Poland’s Catholic Information Agency, KAI, he said the pope had concluded “new tools were needed” when the abuse crisis “began to ferment” in the United States.

He added that the saint had given church leaders new powers to combat it, including indults, or special licenses to ensure “a policy of zero tolerance,” for the U.S. and Irish churches in 1994 and 1996.

“These were, for the bishops, an unambiguous indication of the direction in which they should fight,” Dziwisz said.

“When it became clear local episcopates and religious superiors were still unable to cope with the problem, and the crisis was spreading to other countries, he recognized it concerned not just the Anglo-Saxon world but had a global character,” the cardinal said.

Criticisms of John Paul’s record have increased in recent months.

[…]

However, in his statement, Dziwisz said St. John Paul had promulgated legal norms of “groundbreaking importance” for tackling abuse crimes in May 2001 — a year before “a wave of revelations” in the U.S. — requiring sexual abuse committed by clergy be referred to the Vatican’s Apostolic Court.

He added that the pope had presented his own analysis of the crisis to U.S. cardinals in April 2002 following the publication of the “Spotlight” claims and had also “known and approved” the launch of Vatican investigations in December 2004 against Father Marcial Maciel Degollado, the Mexican head of the Legionaries of Christ.

“To this day, this analysis serves as a reference point for all those committed to fighting against the crime of sexual abuse of minors by clerics,” said Dziwisz, who also defended John Paul’s record in a Polish TV interview during a February Vatican summit on protection of minors.

“It helps diagnose the crisis and indicates the way out, and this has been confirmed by the Vatican summit convened by Pope Francis, who is following with determination the path of his predecessors in fighting against this problem.”

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:08 pm

+JMJ+

Right to access clean water must be defended, pope says
Image
A man fills a plastic drum with spring water from a mountain in Utuado, Puerto Rico, Oct. 21, 2019. Access to clean, fresh water is a fundamental human right that must be defended, especially in poor areas where men, women and children are suffering the deadly effects of climate change, Pope Francis said. (Credit: Bob Roller/CNS)

ROME — Access to clean, fresh water is a fundamental human right that must be defended, especially in poor areas where men, women and children are suffering the deadly effects of climate change, Pope Francis said.

In a message marking World Water Day, March 22, the pope said that water “is an essential asset for the equilibrium of ecosystems and human survival, and it must be managed and cared for so that it is not polluted or lost.”

“The new generations are called upon — together with all the inhabitants of the planet — to value and defend this good,” he said. “It is a task that begins with raising awareness among those who suffer the unavoidable consequences of climate change and of all those who are victims in one way or another of the exploitation and pollution of water due to various factors.”

As the temperature of the planet continues to rise, he warned, “more and more people are suffering because of the lack of sources of water suitable for consumption.”

Education is also crucial in teaching future generations to “value and love the resources” the earth provides, he said in the message addressed to Jose Graziano da Silva, president of the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization.

While the international community is beginning to invest in the future of the planet, the pope said it must also confront the challenge of helping those who suffer and are at the mercy of those who place profit over people.

“It is necessary to elaborate financing plans as well as long-range water projects,” Francis said. “This firmness will lead us to overcome the vision of turning water into a mere commodity, exclusively regulated by the laws of the market.”

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:14 am

+JMJ+

American pope? Rare, leaked report from Pope Francis’s election reveals who got votes
Image
Cardinal Sean O'Malleyspoke at the Archdiocese of Boston Headquarters about the death of former Boston Cardinal Bernard Law. (JOHN TLUMACKI/GLOBE STAFF)

A rare, leaked report revealed great uncertainty in the 2013 selection of Pope Francis, with a huge number of cardinals getting votes — including, for the first time, top spots for an American and a Canadian.

In 2013, the top four vote-getters were one Italian, Angelo Scola; Jorge Bergoglio, or Pope Francis, from Argentina; Canadian Marc Ouellet; and Sean O’Malley, the archbishop of Boston, according to an article published Friday by America, a Catholic news site.

Scola got 30 votes, Bergoglio 26, Ouellet 22, and O’Malley 10. These were the highest votes ever in a conclave for North Americans, experts said.

Analysts on Friday offered different views of what the votes meant.

[…]

The article provides what experts called unprecedented public detail about a conclave — the normally top-secret event in which cardinals select popes. Participants take an oath not to share what goes on inside the rounds of voting, and some papal experts Friday said they feared the detailed leak could corrupt the entire process going forward.

Almost all top vote-getters for centuries have been Europeans, said America’s Vatican reporter, Gerard O’Connell, who wrote the piece entitled ‘‘Inside the election of Pope Francis.’’

Often the final vote tallies get out years after conclaves, but several papal experts said this was the most detailed leak they’d seen.

O’Connell’s story, which excerpts his upcoming book on the conclave, focuses on the first round of Francis’ election. Conclaves require a two-thirds vote and usually take several rounds to get there. Francis’s had five.

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:00 am

wosbald wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:14 am
+JMJ+

American pope? Rare, leaked report from Pope Francis’s election reveals who got votes
Image
Cardinal Sean O'Malleyspoke at the Archdiocese of Boston Headquarters about the death of former Boston Cardinal Bernard Law. (JOHN TLUMACKI/GLOBE STAFF)

A rare, leaked report revealed great uncertainty in the 2013 selection of Pope Francis, with a huge number of cardinals getting votes — including, for the first time, top spots for an American and a Canadian.

In 2013, the top four vote-getters were one Italian, Angelo Scola; Jorge Bergoglio, or Pope Francis, from Argentina; Canadian Marc Ouellet; and Sean O’Malley, the archbishop of Boston, according to an article published Friday by America, a Catholic news site.

Scola got 30 votes, Bergoglio 26, Ouellet 22, and O’Malley 10. These were the highest votes ever in a conclave for North Americans, experts said.

Analysts on Friday offered different views of what the votes meant.

[…]

The article provides what experts called unprecedented public detail about a conclave — the normally top-secret event in which cardinals select popes. Participants take an oath not to share what goes on inside the rounds of voting, and some papal experts Friday said they feared the detailed leak could corrupt the entire process going forward.

Almost all top vote-getters for centuries have been Europeans, said America’s Vatican reporter, Gerard O’Connell, who wrote the piece entitled ‘‘Inside the election of Pope Francis.’’

Often the final vote tallies get out years after conclaves, but several papal experts said this was the most detailed leak they’d seen.

O’Connell’s story, which excerpts his upcoming book on the conclave, focuses on the first round of Francis’ election. Conclaves require a two-thirds vote and usually take several rounds to get there. Francis’s had five.
Well, the world's water supply, endangered Turkish hordes yearning to overrun the European population and murder a few priests along the way, maybe rape somebody if they can...Chinese and South American communists, queers everywhere, and Uncle Bob all applaud the decision.

Funny thing is, it sure could have been worse. :lol:
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:20 am

+JMJ+

Pope Francis on the importance of the Seal of Confession
Image
Pope Francis hears confessions during World Youth Day in Panama

Pope Francis addresses participants in the 30th Course on the Internal Forum organized by the Apostolic Penitentiary.

Pope Francis on Friday received the over 700 participants in a Course on the Internal Forum organized by the Apostolic Penitentiary insisting on the fact that it is to be taken very seriously.

The Course aims to contribute to the formation of good confessors.

[…]

No jurisdiction can interfere with the “Sacramental seal”

The Pope underscored the importance of the secrecy of confession by explaining that Reconciliation is “a good that the wisdom of the Church has always safeguarded, strenuously, with the Sacramental seal.”

He said that even if this is not always understood by modern mentality, it is indispensable for the holiness of the Sacrament and for the penitent’s freedom of conscience.

“No human power has jurisdiction over it, nor can it claim it”, he said.

The Pope concluded his address inviting the priests to “always listen with great generosity to the confessions of the faithful”, to walk with them along this “path of holiness” and to “contemplate the miracles of conversion that grace works in the secret of the confessional: miracles of which only you and the angels will witness”.

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:02 am

+JMJ+

Pope Francis and Moroccan king sign appeal urging that Jerusalem remain open to all faiths
Image
Pope Francis talks with King Mohammed VI after arriving at Rabat-Sale Airport in Morocco March 30, 2019 (CNS photo/ Vatican Media via Reuters).

Hours after his arrival in Rabat, the capital of Morocco, Pope Francis and the King of Morocco signed an appeal calling for the preservation of the holy city of Jerusalem as a place of encounter for Jews, Christians and Muslims.

They signed the appeal on the afternoon of March 30, when Francis visited King Mohammed VI in the Royal Palace of this majority-Muslim nation. The joint statement emphasized the “unique and sacred character” of Jerusalem, which Muslims call Al Quds, and expressed their joint concern “for its spiritual significance and its special vocation as a city of peace.”

[…]

Though the appeal makes no explicit reference to it, a clear underlying concern is that the status of Jerusalem as a place sacred to all three monotheistic religions could be undermined. In their appeal, Pope Francis and King Mohammed VI said: “We consider it important to preserve the Holy City of Jerusalem / Al-Quds Acharif as the common patrimony of humanity and especially (of) the followers of the three monotheistic religions, as a place of encounter and as a symbol of peaceful coexistence, where mutual respect and dialogue can be cultivated."

Pope Francis and King Mohammed VI expressed their common hope that “in the Holy City, full freedom of access to the followers of the three monotheistic religions and their right to worship will be guaranteed."

“To this end,” they said, “the specific multi-religious character, the spiritual dimension and the particular cultural identity of Jerusalem / Al-Quds Acharif must be protected and promoted.”

They expressed their common hope that “in the Holy City, full freedom of access to the followers of the three monotheistic religions and their right to worship will be guaranteed, so that in Jerusalem / Al-Quds Acharif they may raise their prayers to God, the Creator of all, for a future of peace and fraternity on the earth.”

[…]

Pope Francis described his visit as another occasion to promote interreligious dialogue as part of the celebrations of the 800th anniversary of the meeting of St. Francis of Assisi and Sultan al-Malik al-Kamil in Egypt. The meeting of the saint and sultan during the Crusades, he said, “shows that the courage to encounter one another and extend a hand of friendship is a pathway of peace and harmony for humanity, whereas extremism and hatred cause division and destruction.”

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:19 pm

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 78 / pg 78 / pg 79 / pg 79 / pg 88 / pg 89


Cardinal defends Vatican-China agreement amid criticism
Image
Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Vatican secretary of state, speaks at a symposium on religious freedom hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See in Rome April 3, 2019. (CNS/U.S. Embassy to the Holy See/A.J. Olnes)

Vatican City — Critics of an agreement signed between the Vatican and the Chinese government must be patient and not quick to judge a deal that is meant to protect religious freedom, the Vatican secretary of state said.

After addressing a symposium on religious freedom April 3, Cardinal Pietro Parolin told journalists that the agreement was signed "to advance religious freedom in the sense of finding (some) normalization for the Catholic community" as well as other religious minorities.

"Our hope is that it will help, not limit, religious freedom. But we should be patient," he said, "I know that people want things immediately."

"History was not built in one day; history is a long process. And I think we have to put ourselves in this perspective."

Parolin was among several guest speakers at the "Stand Together to Defend International Religious Freedom" symposium hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See. Also present was Callista Gingrich, U.S. ambassador to the Holy See.

[…]

In response to reporters' questions on the sidelines of the symposium, Parolin said he "sometimes feel a little bit lost" when people criticize the agreement without allowing things "to work peacefully."

"My impression is that (people) want things done immediately," he said. "No; we know that things in history are changing slowly."

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:07 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:20 am
+JMJ+


Apostolic Penitentiary
Is this where Vatican City license plates are made? :rotfl:
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:32 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:19 pm
+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 78 / pg 78 / pg 79 / pg 79 / pg 88 / pg 89


Cardinal defends Vatican-China agreement amid criticism
Image
Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Vatican secretary of state, speaks at a symposium on religious freedom hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See in Rome April 3, 2019. (CNS/U.S. Embassy to the Holy See/A.J. Olnes)

Vatican City — Critics of an agreement signed between the Vatican and the Chinese government must be patient and not quick to judge a deal that is meant to protect religious freedom, the Vatican secretary of state said.

After addressing a symposium on religious freedom April 3, Cardinal Pietro Parolin told journalists that the agreement was signed "to advance religious freedom in the sense of finding (some) normalization for the Catholic community" as well as other religious minorities.

"Our hope is that it will help, not limit, religious freedom. But we should be patient," he said, "I know that people want things immediately."

"History was not built in one day; history is a long process. And I think we have to put ourselves in this perspective."

Parolin was among several guest speakers at the "Stand Together to Defend International Religious Freedom" symposium hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See. Also present was Callista Gingrich, U.S. ambassador to the Holy See.

[…]

In response to reporters' questions on the sidelines of the symposium, Parolin said he "sometimes feel a little bit lost" when people criticize the agreement without allowing things "to work peacefully."

"My impression is that (people) want things done immediately," he said. "No; we know that things in history are changing slowly."

[…]
They removed a validly consecrated bishop in favor of the communist candidate, Wos. To hell with this claptrap.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:36 am

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:32 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:19 pm
Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 78 / pg 78 / pg 79 / pg 79 / pg 88 / pg 89


Cardinal defends Vatican-China agreement amid criticism
Image
Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Vatican secretary of state, speaks at a symposium on religious freedom hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See in Rome April 3, 2019. (CNS/U.S. Embassy to the Holy See/A.J. Olnes)

Vatican City — Critics of an agreement signed between the Vatican and the Chinese government must be patient and not quick to judge a deal that is meant to protect religious freedom, the Vatican secretary of state said.

After addressing a symposium on religious freedom April 3, Cardinal Pietro Parolin told journalists that the agreement was signed "to advance religious freedom in the sense of finding (some) normalization for the Catholic community" as well as other religious minorities.

"Our hope is that it will help, not limit, religious freedom. But we should be patient," he said, "I know that people want things immediately."

"History was not built in one day; history is a long process. And I think we have to put ourselves in this perspective."

Parolin was among several guest speakers at the "Stand Together to Defend International Religious Freedom" symposium hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See. Also present was Callista Gingrich, U.S. ambassador to the Holy See.

[…]

In response to reporters' questions on the sidelines of the symposium, Parolin said he "sometimes feel a little bit lost" when people criticize the agreement without allowing things "to work peacefully."

"My impression is that (people) want things done immediately," he said. "No; we know that things in history are changing slowly."

[…]
They removed a validly consecrated bishop in favor of the communist candidate, Wos. To hell with this claptrap.
So, the "Judeo-Christian West" is … what? Entitled?

To he that has, more will be given. But to he that has not, even which he has will be taken away.

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:45 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:32 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:19 pm
+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 78 / pg 78 / pg 79 / pg 79 / pg 88 / pg 89


Cardinal defends Vatican-China agreement amid criticism
Image
Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Vatican secretary of state, speaks at a symposium on religious freedom hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See in Rome April 3, 2019. (CNS/U.S. Embassy to the Holy See/A.J. Olnes)

Vatican City — Critics of an agreement signed between the Vatican and the Chinese government must be patient and not quick to judge a deal that is meant to protect religious freedom, the Vatican secretary of state said.

After addressing a symposium on religious freedom April 3, Cardinal Pietro Parolin told journalists that the agreement was signed "to advance religious freedom in the sense of finding (some) normalization for the Catholic community" as well as other religious minorities.

"Our hope is that it will help, not limit, religious freedom. But we should be patient," he said, "I know that people want things immediately."

"History was not built in one day; history is a long process. And I think we have to put ourselves in this perspective."

Parolin was among several guest speakers at the "Stand Together to Defend International Religious Freedom" symposium hosted by the U.S. Embassy to the Holy See. Also present was Callista Gingrich, U.S. ambassador to the Holy See.

[…]

In response to reporters' questions on the sidelines of the symposium, Parolin said he "sometimes feel a little bit lost" when people criticize the agreement without allowing things "to work peacefully."

"My impression is that (people) want things done immediately," he said. "No; we know that things in history are changing slowly."

[…]
They removed a validly consecrated bishop in favor of the communist candidate, Wos. To hell with this claptrap.
hugodrax speaks truth.

And while I am often a proponent of discouraging knee-jerk reactions, I wonder sometimes (on this subject and others) if the argument being made that 'let's wait and see and history doesn't happen in a day' more or less serves as the easiest way to defend a bad decision. Because if no deal with communists took place the same wait-and-see-history-slow! argument could be made.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:05 am

+JMJ+

Benedict blames scandals on ’68, says Church law can’t just protect accused [In-Depth]
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This Feb. 9, 2013 file photo shows Pope Benedict XVI flanked by personal secretary Archbishop Georg Gaenswein during a Mass to mark the 900th anniversary of the Order of the Knights of Malta in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican. (Credit: AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia, files)

ROME — In one of his most extended public statements since his resignation more than six years ago, Pope emeritus Benedict XVI has ascribed the clerical sexual abuse scandals to the sexual revolution of the 1960s and a post-Vatican II “collapse” in Catholic moral theology.

Most basically, Benedict argues that the scandals reflect a decline in faith in a personal God.

“Why did pedophilia reach such proportions? Ultimately, the reason is the absence of God,” he wrote. “We Christians and priests also prefer not to talk about God, because this speech does not seem to be practical.”

Reflecting on early struggles in the Vatican to cope with the abuse scandals, Benedict said one problem was an exaggerated “guarantorism” in Church law that put such an emphasis on the due process rights of accused parties that “convictions were hardly possible.”

It was only with time, he said, that imposing permanent penalties on abuser clergy became accepted, recognizing “it is not only the right of the accused that is important and requires a guarantee. Great goods such as the faith are equally important.”

The emeritus pope’s comments come in a 6,000-word essay written for Klerusblatt, a monthly magazine for clergy distributed mostly in his native Bavaria region of Germany.

He said he was motivated to write by the Feb. 21-24 summit convened by Pope Francis on the abuse scandals for the presidents of bishops’ conferences from around the world, and that he sought the permission of both Francis and Italian Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s Secretary of State, before going public with his thoughts on “what I could contribute to a new beginning.”

[…]

In Catholic intellectual life, he wrote, the impulses of the 1960s led to a rethinking of moral theology. After early efforts to replace the traditional concept of natural law with a morality based entirely on Scripture failed, he said, what arose was a form of consequentialism that rejected the idea of absolute good or evil.

One expression of that mentality, he said, came with the “Cologne Declaration” of 1989. Signed by 163 theologians from Germany, Austria, Switzerland and the Netherlands, that statement complained of a “new Roman centralism” under St. John Paul II and an inflation in the scope of papal infallibility. It was signed by many of the leading Catholic theologians of the time, including Eduard Schillebeeckx, Johann Baptist Metz, Hans Küng, Norbert Greinacher and Ottmar Fuchs. Others signed later, most prominently moral theologian Bernard Häring.

In response to those currents, Benedict said, John Paul II issued the 1993 encyclical Veritatis splendor, insisting that “the moral calculus involved in balancing goods must respect a final limit.”

“There are goods that are never subject to trade-offs,” Benedict said, insisting that the teaching authority of the Church can and must speak definitively on moral matters.

“Those who deny the Church a final teaching competence in this area force her to remain silent precisely where the boundary between truth and lies is at stake,” Benedict wrote.

In a section of the essay devoted to “guarantorism” in Church law and what he saw as an exaggerated accent on the rights of the accused, Benedict suggested that mentality developed out of a push to shield theologians from interventions by ecclesiastical authorities.

Benedict also conceded that during his time as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dealing with all the abuse cases arriving in Rome “went beyond the capacities” of his office, resulting in delays and leading Francis to pursue “further reforms.”

In terms of a path forward, Benedict said that “only obedience and love for our Lord Jesus Christ can point the way.”

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:30 am

wosbald wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:05 am
+JMJ+

Benedict blames scandals on ’68, says Church law can’t just protect accused [In-Depth]
Image
This Feb. 9, 2013 file photo shows Pope Benedict XVI flanked by personal secretary Archbishop Georg Gaenswein during a Mass to mark the 900th anniversary of the Order of the Knights of Malta in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican. (Credit: AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia, files)

ROME — In one of his most extended public statements since his resignation more than six years ago, Pope emeritus Benedict XVI has ascribed the clerical sexual abuse scandals to the sexual revolution of the 1960s and a post-Vatican II “collapse” in Catholic moral theology.

Most basically, Benedict argues that the scandals reflect a decline in faith in a personal God.

“Why did pedophilia reach such proportions? Ultimately, the reason is the absence of God,” he wrote. “We Christians and priests also prefer not to talk about God, because this speech does not seem to be practical.”

Reflecting on early struggles in the Vatican to cope with the abuse scandals, Benedict said one problem was an exaggerated “guarantorism” in Church law that put such an emphasis on the due process rights of accused parties that “convictions were hardly possible.”

It was only with time, he said, that imposing permanent penalties on abuser clergy became accepted, recognizing “it is not only the right of the accused that is important and requires a guarantee. Great goods such as the faith are equally important.”

The emeritus pope’s comments come in a 6,000-word essay written for Klerusblatt, a monthly magazine for clergy distributed mostly in his native Bavaria region of Germany.

He said he was motivated to write by the Feb. 21-24 summit convened by Pope Francis on the abuse scandals for the presidents of bishops’ conferences from around the world, and that he sought the permission of both Francis and Italian Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s Secretary of State, before going public with his thoughts on “what I could contribute to a new beginning.”

[…]

In Catholic intellectual life, he wrote, the impulses of the 1960s led to a rethinking of moral theology. After early efforts to replace the traditional concept of natural law with a morality based entirely on Scripture failed, he said, what arose was a form of consequentialism that rejected the idea of absolute good or evil.

One expression of that mentality, he said, came with the “Cologne Declaration” of 1989. Signed by 163 theologians from Germany, Austria, Switzerland and the Netherlands, that statement complained of a “new Roman centralism” under St. John Paul II and an inflation in the scope of papal infallibility. It was signed by many of the leading Catholic theologians of the time, including Eduard Schillebeeckx, Johann Baptist Metz, Hans Küng, Norbert Greinacher and Ottmar Fuchs. Others signed later, most prominently moral theologian Bernard Häring.

In response to those currents, Benedict said, John Paul II issued the 1993 encyclical Veritatis splendor, insisting that “the moral calculus involved in balancing goods must respect a final limit.”

“There are goods that are never subject to trade-offs,” Benedict said, insisting that the teaching authority of the Church can and must speak definitively on moral matters.

“Those who deny the Church a final teaching competence in this area force her to remain silent precisely where the boundary between truth and lies is at stake,” Benedict wrote.

In a section of the essay devoted to “guarantorism” in Church law and what he saw as an exaggerated accent on the rights of the accused, Benedict suggested that mentality developed out of a push to shield theologians from interventions by ecclesiastical authorities.

Benedict also conceded that during his time as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dealing with all the abuse cases arriving in Rome “went beyond the capacities” of his office, resulting in delays and leading Francis to pursue “further reforms.”

In terms of a path forward, Benedict said that “only obedience and love for our Lord Jesus Christ can point the way.”

[…]
It's been a crazy day, my dear Wosbald, but I wanted to thank you for not enraging me this morning. The respite was much appreciated.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:16 am

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackback: pg 89


Top Vatican cardinal says Benedict is only trying to help Francis
Image\
In this Nov. 18, 2011, file photo, then-Pope Benedict XVI is next to Father Federico Lombardi, center, and then-Archbishop Angelo Becciu. (Credit: AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito, files)

ROME — A cardinal who once held one of the highest-ranking positions in the Vatican said Thursday that Benedict XVI’s controversial comments on the clergy abuse crisis were motivated by a desire to help Pope Francis, and that it would be “the greatest suffering” for Benedict to be perceived as contradicting his successor.

“I interpret [the letter] as the reflections of a man who, before this terrible scourge of pedophilia in the Church, attempts to help Pope Francis and all of us to emerge from it,” said Italian Cardinal Giovanni Becciu.

“It doesn’t go against Pope Francis, because he does not suggest legislation,” Becciu said. “It would be the greatest suffering for Benedict to be perceived as in contradiction with Pope Francis.”

Last Sunday, Becciu also said gay people should not become priests and suggested financial penalties for whistleblowers who betray Vatican secrets.

[…]

The text of Becciu’s interview can be found in the second chapter of Francis’s New Cardinals, which contains 25 conversations with all the cardinals made by Francis and eligible to vote in the next conclave. The book, written by journalist Fabio Marchese Ragona , was presented at a press conference near the Vatican April 11.

“It was a moment of concern, trepidation and suffering,” Becciu told attendees at the conference referring to the moments following the Vatileaks. “Now, several years later, I think that in God’s Church nothing happens by chance.”

“Because this happened now, there is a new look to the Church and a new style of government,” he added pointing to Francis’s concern for the poor and the peripheries.

Concerning sexual abuse by clergy, which was discussed by heads of bishops’ conferences around the world during a February summit at the Vatican, Becciu said that it’s necessary to “no longer hide” but added that reporting abuse to civil authorities must vary from country to country.

“Pedophilia is a tsunami for the Church,” he said. “Had it happened in one country, in one area … but no, it happened in all nations. Why did our ecclesial structures produce such men?”

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:34 am

Considering that he is quite literally kissing the feet of the South Sudanese, Papa Francesco could use the help. It's about time to consider a medically induced coma.
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