I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:52 pm

Well, this is disturbing
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:19 am

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 89 / pg 89


Benedict’s Untimely Meditation [Opinion]
Image\
Retired Pope Benedict XVI attends a consistory for the creation of new cardinals in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican in this Feb. 22, 2014, file photo. (CNS photo/Paul Haring)

How the Pope Emeritus’s Disappointing Essay on Sex Abuse is Being Weaponized

On the evening of April 10, six weeks after the conclusion of the Vatican’s summit on the sex-abuse crisis, the “pope emeritus,” Benedict XVI, made known his thoughts on the genesis of that crisis in a five-thousand-plus-word essay sent to a periodical for Bavarian priests, quickly translated into English, and then diffused online by Catholic websites known for their hostility to Pope Francis.

The essay is divided into two parts. The second, theological part is a reflection on the spiritual nature of the church, and mirrors Pope Francis’s own approach to the sex-abuse crisis: the pope and pope emeritus agree that the crisis cannot be resolved with only bureaucratic and juridical reforms. Both believe that the crisis involves a spiritual evil that must be confronted in spiritual terms. Benedict writes: “Indeed, the Church today is widely regarded as just some kind of political apparatus. One speaks of it almost exclusively in political categories, and this applies even to bishops, who formulate their conception of the church of tomorrow almost exclusively in political terms. The crisis, caused by the many cases of clerical abuse, urges us to regard the Church as something almost unacceptable, which we must now take into our own hands and redesign. But a self-made Church cannot constitute hope.” All this is in keeping with what Francis has said and written on the subject.

The rest of Benedict’s essay, however, departs not only from the current pope’s analysis of the sex-abuse crisis, but also from that of almost everyone else who has studied it. Ratzinger’s core argument starts from an historical-theological analysis of the post-conciliar period — from 1968 onward — and focuses on the negative effects of the sexual revolution on the church. In his view, these effects were twofold: a moral decay in behaviors and the rise of the relativism in moral theology.

This is a problematic analysis to say the least. It puts the Second Vatican Council at the origin of moral decadence in the church. This contrasts starkly with the way Francis has always spoken about the council. Even worse, Benedict’s claim that the phenomenon of sexual abuse was mainly a product of the sixties is contradicted by all the available studies on the topic, as is his suggestion of a connection between sexual abuse and homosexuality (more on this later).

There is no question that the Catholic Church was hit hard by the Sexual Revolution — not only lay people, but also the clergy and the seminaries. But the history of sexual abuse in the church begins well before the turmoil of the ’60s: one can find evidence of it in the writings of the Fathers of the Church, who coined terms for it that are not found in classical Greek (cf. the studies by John Martens). There is a vast literature on the phenomenon and on the tools developed by the church, between the middle ages and the twentieth century, to combat it.

[…]

There is a second problem underlying the publication of this essay. Benedict XVI claims to have prepared these remarks for the February summit on sexual abuse, but, for whatever reason, they were not published at that time. He writes that Pope Francis and the Vatican’s secretary of state, Cardinal Parolin, gave him permission to have the article published in a German-language magazine for the Bavarian clergy. But on the afternoon of April 10 the long text was made available — and in a good English translation — to a select few Catholic and non-Catholic media outlets in the United States that have made it their business to undermine Pope Francis. Who sent it to these outlets? And why to only these and not to others? Were those in charge of communication for the Holy See informed that the article would be publicized and promoted in this way?

The people who can answer all these questions belong not to the Vatican’s official media, which seems to have been surprised by the initiative, but to the parallel papal court that has formed around the pope emeritus. To release Benedict’s article without informing the Vatican press office and other institutional communication channels represents a serious breach of protocol. The Osservatore Romano and Vatican News limited themselves to publishing a short summary of Benedict’s article. But overseas, and especially in the United States, Benedict’s essay has been quickly and predictably weaponized by those who have been trying discredit Francis since the start of his pontificate.

[…]

That brings us to a third problem, this one of an ecclesial nature. The Ratzinger thesis on sexual abuse in the church constitutes a counter-narrative that directly feeds opposition to Pope Francis and creates confusion about what to do at this dramatic moment. This counter-narrative leans heavily on the claim that sexual abuse is the result of homosexuality, a claim that has been contradicted by researchers who have studied the evidence. But Benedict XVI is content to repeat the old canard in this essay, which is one reason it has been welcomed so enthusiastically by Francis’s critics. They reject the alternative theory endorsed by Pope Francis, which is that the sex-abuse crisis is fundamentally about clericalism and the abuse of power. It cannot all be blamed on the Sexual Revolution and the proliferation of pornography.

Since March 2013 there have been too many intrigues and confusions with respect to the office of the pope emeritus. The problem is not between Bergoglio and Ratzinger personally, but between their two offices. This incident shows that it is not enough to improve Vatican’s system of communications, if a shadow court surrounding the pope emeritus continues to give the impression that there is a second pope still in service, caring for those unhappy with the only governing pope.

By resigning voluntarily six years ago, Benedict XVI changed the modern papacy. There are likely to be more such resignations in the future. That means the church needs to think carefully about the office of a pope emeritus rather than allowing it to be treated as a one-off improvisation. There need to be some rules, written and unwritten. When a pope resigns, his secretary or secretaries should resign together with him and be reassigned. The office of “prefect of the pontifical household” must be abolished. The pope emeritus should cease to wear white, and his relations with the media should not be left to the discretion of his personal secretaries, who may have every interest in extending his influence beyond its proper bounds. The communications of the pope emeritus should be handled by official Vatican media.

The publication of Benedict’s essay has already damaged his reputation and sown confusion. It will probably prove to be no more than a minor nuisance to Pope Francis, but it does underscore the need for a new generation of church leaders to deal with the sex-abuse crisis on its own terms rather than simply recycling the clichés, excuses, and evasions that have hindered the Vatican until now.

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:53 am

wosbald wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:19 am
+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 89 / pg 89


Benedict’s Untimely Meditation [Opinion]
Image\
Retired Pope Benedict XVI attends a consistory for the creation of new cardinals in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican in this Feb. 22, 2014, file photo. (CNS photo/Paul Haring)

How the Pope Emeritus’s Disappointing Essay on Sex Abuse is Being Weaponized

On the evening of April 10, six weeks after the conclusion of the Vatican’s summit on the sex-abuse crisis, the “pope emeritus,” Benedict XVI, made known his thoughts on the genesis of that crisis in a five-thousand-plus-word essay sent to a periodical for Bavarian priests, quickly translated into English, and then diffused online by Catholic websites known for their hostility to Pope Francis.

The essay is divided into two parts. The second, theological part is a reflection on the spiritual nature of the church, and mirrors Pope Francis’s own approach to the sex-abuse crisis: the pope and pope emeritus agree that the crisis cannot be resolved with only bureaucratic and juridical reforms. Both believe that the crisis involves a spiritual evil that must be confronted in spiritual terms. Benedict writes: “Indeed, the Church today is widely regarded as just some kind of political apparatus. One speaks of it almost exclusively in political categories, and this applies even to bishops, who formulate their conception of the church of tomorrow almost exclusively in political terms. The crisis, caused by the many cases of clerical abuse, urges us to regard the Church as something almost unacceptable, which we must now take into our own hands and redesign. But a self-made Church cannot constitute hope.” All this is in keeping with what Francis has said and written on the subject.

The rest of Benedict’s essay, however, departs not only from the current pope’s analysis of the sex-abuse crisis, but also from that of almost everyone else who has studied it. Ratzinger’s core argument starts from an historical-theological analysis of the post-conciliar period — from 1968 onward — and focuses on the negative effects of the sexual revolution on the church. In his view, these effects were twofold: a moral decay in behaviors and the rise of the relativism in moral theology.

This is a problematic analysis to say the least. It puts the Second Vatican Council at the origin of moral decadence in the church. This contrasts starkly with the way Francis has always spoken about the council. Even worse, Benedict’s claim that the phenomenon of sexual abuse was mainly a product of the sixties is contradicted by all the available studies on the topic, as is his suggestion of a connection between sexual abuse and homosexuality (more on this later).

There is no question that the Catholic Church was hit hard by the Sexual Revolution — not only lay people, but also the clergy and the seminaries. But the history of sexual abuse in the church begins well before the turmoil of the ’60s: one can find evidence of it in the writings of the Fathers of the Church, who coined terms for it that are not found in classical Greek (cf. the studies by John Martens). There is a vast literature on the phenomenon and on the tools developed by the church, between the middle ages and the twentieth century, to combat it.

[…]

There is a second problem underlying the publication of this essay. Benedict XVI claims to have prepared these remarks for the February summit on sexual abuse, but, for whatever reason, they were not published at that time. He writes that Pope Francis and the Vatican’s secretary of state, Cardinal Parolin, gave him permission to have the article published in a German-language magazine for the Bavarian clergy. But on the afternoon of April 10 the long text was made available — and in a good English translation — to a select few Catholic and non-Catholic media outlets in the United States that have made it their business to undermine Pope Francis. Who sent it to these outlets? And why to only these and not to others? Were those in charge of communication for the Holy See informed that the article would be publicized and promoted in this way?

The people who can answer all these questions belong not to the Vatican’s official media, which seems to have been surprised by the initiative, but to the parallel papal court that has formed around the pope emeritus. To release Benedict’s article without informing the Vatican press office and other institutional communication channels represents a serious breach of protocol. The Osservatore Romano and Vatican News limited themselves to publishing a short summary of Benedict’s article. But overseas, and especially in the United States, Benedict’s essay has been quickly and predictably weaponized by those who have been trying discredit Francis since the start of his pontificate.

[…]

That brings us to a third problem, this one of an ecclesial nature. The Ratzinger thesis on sexual abuse in the church constitutes a counter-narrative that directly feeds opposition to Pope Francis and creates confusion about what to do at this dramatic moment. This counter-narrative leans heavily on the claim that sexual abuse is the result of homosexuality, a claim that has been contradicted by researchers who have studied the evidence. But Benedict XVI is content to repeat the old canard in this essay, which is one reason it has been welcomed so enthusiastically by Francis’s critics. They reject the alternative theory endorsed by Pope Francis, which is that the sex-abuse crisis is fundamentally about clericalism and the abuse of power. It cannot all be blamed on the Sexual Revolution and the proliferation of pornography.

Since March 2013 there have been too many intrigues and confusions with respect to the office of the pope emeritus. The problem is not between Bergoglio and Ratzinger personally, but between their two offices. This incident shows that it is not enough to improve Vatican’s system of communications, if a shadow court surrounding the pope emeritus continues to give the impression that there is a second pope still in service, caring for those unhappy with the only governing pope.

By resigning voluntarily six years ago, Benedict XVI changed the modern papacy. There are likely to be more such resignations in the future. That means the church needs to think carefully about the office of a pope emeritus rather than allowing it to be treated as a one-off improvisation. There need to be some rules, written and unwritten. When a pope resigns, his secretary or secretaries should resign together with him and be reassigned. The office of “prefect of the pontifical household” must be abolished. The pope emeritus should cease to wear white, and his relations with the media should not be left to the discretion of his personal secretaries, who may have every interest in extending his influence beyond its proper bounds. The communications of the pope emeritus should be handled by official Vatican media.

The publication of Benedict’s essay has already damaged his reputation and sown confusion. It will probably prove to be no more than a minor nuisance to Pope Francis, but it does underscore the need for a new generation of church leaders to deal with the sex-abuse crisis on its own terms rather than simply recycling the clichés, excuses, and evasions that have hindered the Vatican until now.
TL; DR:

Beans, Pope Francis' personal hit man, fulfils contract on Benedict. Political left shocked and appalled by actions of the political right. Proposed solution: garrote Pope Emeritus.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:17 am

Much better to read Benedict's letter. As usual, the writing of Ratzinger is easy to read and understand.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... buse-59639

It is notable that Benedict has broken his silence since his retirement.

Benedict does not blast Francis, or engage in any personal attacks. He writes mostly of his own part in the history of this scandal, from the Council to retirement.
Since I myself had served in a position of responsibility as shepherd of the Church at the time of the public outbreak of the crisis, and during the run-up to it, I had to ask myself - even though, as emeritus, I am no longer directly responsible - what I could contribute to a new beginning.

Thus, after the meeting of the presidents of the bishops' conferences was announced, I compiled some notes by which I might contribute one or two remarks to assist in this difficult hour.

Having contacted the Secretary of State, Cardinal [Pietro] Parolin and the Holy Father [Pope Francis] himself, it seemed appropriate to publish this text
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:17 pm

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 89 / pg 89 / pg 90


Pope Benedict’s letter on sex abuse is not an attack on Francis (or Vatican II) [Opinion]
Image
Pope Francis visits retired Pope Benedict XVI on Dec. 21, 2018, in the Mater Ecclesiae monastery. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)

Our church’s divisions can make it hard, sometimes, to hear popes unfiltered—even when they are retired. Benedict XVI’s three-part reflection on clerical sex abuse has been variously greeted as a shot across the bow of Pope Francis’ anti-abuse strategy, as a vindication of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò’s attack on Francis last summer and as a ham-fisted intervention that will feed the nostalgia for the church before the Second Vatican Council.

The optics of the release reinforced these ideas: Why is that only media outlets which have been highly critical of Pope Francis had the translated text before anyone else, each claiming it as an exclusive?

But I think the intention and nature of his text is what Benedict XVI says it is: a helpful contribution. The recent summit called by Pope Francis in Rome to tackle clerical sexual abuse got him thinking about how he could assist “in this difficult hour,” he writes.

“I had to ask myself — even though, as emeritus, I am no longer directly responsible — what I could contribute to a new beginning,” he writes in the article. So he came up with some thoughts, asked Pope Francis if he could publish them and sent the 6,000 words to a Bavarian clergy periodical.

The reflections are mostly unsurprising to anyone familiar with Benedict’s thinking, but there are some intriguing nuggets along with some crude generalizations, and in his third part I see significant backing for Francis’ approach.

[…]

Benedict warns against a ‘self-made church’

Benedict’s third part contains to me his most important — and helpful — suggestions. Noting how the crisis has led some to see the church “as something almost unacceptable, which we must now take into our own hands and redesign,” he warns that “a self-made Church cannot constitute hope.”

It seems obvious that this is a riposte to many of the right-wing responses to institutional failure that treat the church as a kind of renegade corporation needing a purge of bad employees under new management. This was the kind of thing called for last October by the Napa Institute and the “Red Hat Report”, inspired by the attack on Francis by Archbishop Viganò.

Benedict does not use the word, but Francis did recently on his return from Morocco, when he warned of “the church’s danger today of becoming Donatist, making human regulations that are necessary, but limiting ourselves to this and forgetting the other spiritual dimensions, prayer, penitence and self-accusation.” Francis warned the U.S. bishops on the eve of their New Year’s retreat that “many actions can be helpful, good and necessary, and may even seem correct, but not all of them have the ‘flavor’ of the Gospel.”

Is this not Benedict’s point, when he follows his master St. Augustine — who battled the Donatists of his day — in calling up Jesus’ descriptions of the church as a fishing net containing both good and bad, or a field in which both wheat and darnel grow?

It is essentially a Donatist temptation — one to which many followers of Archbishop Viganò succumb — to want to create a church of the pure, to see the church as irredeemably bad and needing to be replaced by “a better Church, created by ourselves,” in Benedict’s words. He describes this idea as “in fact a proposal of the devil, with which he wants to lead us away from the living God, through a deceitful logic by which we are too easily duped.”

Rather, he writes, “the Church of God also exists today, and today it is the very instrument through which God saves us.” It persists in the “many people who humbly, believe, suffer and love, in whom the real God, the loving God, shows Himself to us.”

When I read this I could not help but think of Francis’ long speech to the clergy of Rome at the start of Lent, when he told them not to be discouraged by the scandals, how “the Lord is purifying his bride and is converting us all to himself. … He is saving us from hypocrisy, from the spirituality of appearances. He is blowing his Spirit to restore beauty to his bride caught in flagrant adultery.”

Surprise, surprise. Both the pope and the pope emeritus are at one in defending the freedom of the church to be redeemed by God’s mercy, and in opposing any attempt at neo-Donatist reform.

They are very different men, and very different popes. But on the fundamentals, there seems to be little distance between them. That is why it is not just courtesy for Benedict to sign off by thanking Francis “for everything he does to show us, again and again, the light of God, which has not disappeared, even today.”

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:23 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:17 pm
+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 89 / pg 89 / pg 90


Pope Benedict’s letter on sex abuse is not an attack on Francis (or Vatican II) [Opinion]
Image
Pope Francis visits retired Pope Benedict XVI on Dec. 21, 2018, in the Mater Ecclesiae monastery. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)

Our church’s divisions can make it hard, sometimes, to hear popes unfiltered—even when they are retired. Benedict XVI’s three-part reflection on clerical sex abuse has been variously greeted as a shot across the bow of Pope Francis’ anti-abuse strategy, as a vindication of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò’s attack on Francis last summer and as a ham-fisted intervention that will feed the nostalgia for the church before the Second Vatican Council.

The optics of the release reinforced these ideas: Why is that only media outlets which have been highly critical of Pope Francis had the translated text before anyone else, each claiming it as an exclusive?

But I think the intention and nature of his text is what Benedict XVI says it is: a helpful contribution. The recent summit called by Pope Francis in Rome to tackle clerical sexual abuse got him thinking about how he could assist “in this difficult hour,” he writes.

“I had to ask myself — even though, as emeritus, I am no longer directly responsible — what I could contribute to a new beginning,” he writes in the article. So he came up with some thoughts, asked Pope Francis if he could publish them and sent the 6,000 words to a Bavarian clergy periodical.

The reflections are mostly unsurprising to anyone familiar with Benedict’s thinking, but there are some intriguing nuggets along with some crude generalizations, and in his third part I see significant backing for Francis’ approach.

[…]

Benedict warns against a ‘self-made church’

Benedict’s third part contains to me his most important — and helpful — suggestions. Noting how the crisis has led some to see the church “as something almost unacceptable, which we must now take into our own hands and redesign,” he warns that “a self-made Church cannot constitute hope.”

It seems obvious that this is a riposte to many of the right-wing responses to institutional failure that treat the church as a kind of renegade corporation needing a purge of bad employees under new management. This was the kind of thing called for last October by the Napa Institute and the “Red Hat Report”, inspired by the attack on Francis by Archbishop Viganò.

Benedict does not use the word, but Francis did recently on his return from Morocco, when he warned of “the church’s danger today of becoming Donatist, making human regulations that are necessary, but limiting ourselves to this and forgetting the other spiritual dimensions, prayer, penitence and self-accusation.” Francis warned the U.S. bishops on the eve of their New Year’s retreat that “many actions can be helpful, good and necessary, and may even seem correct, but not all of them have the ‘flavor’ of the Gospel.”

Is this not Benedict’s point, when he follows his master St. Augustine — who battled the Donatists of his day — in calling up Jesus’ descriptions of the church as a fishing net containing both good and bad, or a field in which both wheat and darnel grow?

It is essentially a Donatist temptation — one to which many followers of Archbishop Viganò succumb — to want to create a church of the pure, to see the church as irredeemably bad and needing to be replaced by “a better Church, created by ourselves,” in Benedict’s words. He describes this idea as “in fact a proposal of the devil, with which he wants to lead us away from the living God, through a deceitful logic by which we are too easily duped.”

Rather, he writes, “the Church of God also exists today, and today it is the very instrument through which God saves us.” It persists in the “many people who humbly, believe, suffer and love, in whom the real God, the loving God, shows Himself to us.”

When I read this I could not help but think of Francis’ long speech to the clergy of Rome at the start of Lent, when he told them not to be discouraged by the scandals, how “the Lord is purifying his bride and is converting us all to himself. … He is saving us from hypocrisy, from the spirituality of appearances. He is blowing his Spirit to restore beauty to his bride caught in flagrant adultery.”

Surprise, surprise. Both the pope and the pope emeritus are at one in defending the freedom of the church to be redeemed by God’s mercy, and in opposing any attempt at neo-Donatist reform.

They are very different men, and very different popes. But on the fundamentals, there seems to be little distance between them. That is why it is not just courtesy for Benedict to sign off by thanking Francis “for everything he does to show us, again and again, the light of God, which has not disappeared, even today.”
Great article. Really well written and loving.

What the hell was it doing in America?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:12 am

+JMJ+

New Vatican document to put evangelization ahead of doctrine [In-Depth]
Image
Cover of Vida Nueva's April 27 edition, on the upcoming Vatican constitution. (Credit: courtesy of Vida Nueva)

ROME — A new “super dicastery” on evangelization might be one of the most significant reforms of the governing structures of the Vatican, according to a new report.

Spanish journalist Dario Menor Torres, writing for the weekly Vida Nueva, reveals several elements of the new Vatican constitution that has been in development for years.

The biggest novelty in the document, called Praedicate Evangelium [“Preach the Gospel”], will be the creation of the “super dicastery” for evangelization, which will potentially be more important than the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), often called “The Supreme Congregation.”

Having its roots in the Roman Inquisition, the doctrinal office is the oldest among the congregations of the Roman Curia, and insiders still call it the Holy Office, as it’s tasked with promulgating and defending Catholic doctrine and defending the Church from heresy.

[…]

Menor’s report is based on interviews he conducted with Indian Cardinal Oswald Gracias and Honduran Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga, both members of the pope’s Council of Cardinal Advisers, which was established at the beginning of Francis’s pontificate to help reform the Curia.

“Pope Francis always underlines that the Church is missionary,” Maradiaga told Vida Nueva. “For this reason, it’s logical that we put in the first place the dicastery for Evangelization and not the one for the Doctrine of the Faith.”

“This way, the pope sends a significant signal of the reform to the entire People of God,” the cardinal said.

Gracias agreed.

“The main point of the new Apostolic Constitution is that the mission of the Church is evangelization,” the Indian cardinal told Vida Nueva. “It puts it at the center of the Church and everything the Curia does. It will be the first dicastery. The name of the text shows that evangelization is the principal objective, ahead of anything else.”

Crux had exclusive access to the article before this week’s edition reaches subscribers on Saturday.

According to the report from Vida Nueva, Francis could sign the new constitution on June 29, the Solemnity of Peter and Paul. Conforming to what Gracias told Crux earlier this month, the draft of Praedicate Evangelium was sent to the world’s bishops’ conferences, heads of the Vatican’s dicasteries and other Church officials to review the document and send suggestions by the end of May.

The plan is to compile all the suggestions, make the necessary modifications, and for the Council of Cardinals Advisers to review it again during their June 25-27 meeting.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:50 am

+JMJ+

Talking with a Friend Who Fears Francis [Opinion]
Image

Regarding the CRISIS piece on Francis’ alleged socialist agenda, I find it hard to buy for a couple of reasons.

First of all, it assumes as a matter of course that anything socialist is, ipso facto, absolutely incompatible with the faith. This, according to no less an authority than Benedict XVI, is not true. Here is his discussion of socialism in First Things:
But in Europe, in the nineteenth century, the two models were joined by a third, socialism, which quickly split into two different branches, one totalitarian and the other democratic. Democratic socialism managed to fit within the two existing models as a welcome counterweight to the radical liberal positions, which it developed and corrected. It also managed to appeal to various denominations. In England it became the political party of the Catholics, who had never felt at home among either the Protestant conservatives or the liberals. In Wilhelmine Germany, too, Catholic groups felt closer to democratic socialism than to the rigidly Prussian and Protestant conservative forces. In many respects, democratic socialism was and is close to Catholic social doctrine and has in any case made a remarkable contribution to the formation of a social consciousness.
Benedict, in fact, hails from a country which, pretty much like the rest of Europe, has adopted quite a number of social support networks that function just fine and that are, as he notes, quite compatible with Catholic teaching. Every one of these systems would be categorically condemned as ‘socialist’ by the American right and by the writers and readers of CRISIS. Indeed, the entire English-speaking world as well has adopted what American bishops have literally been demanding for a century; universal health care, which the Church teaches is a human right and we alone still treat as a privilege and condemn as ‘socialist’. It has resulted in, among other things, a health care system where diabetics like me are literally being murdered by insulin costs that force the poor to ration — and die as a result. And that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the madness of our medical system. Meanwhile, the Trump Administration wants to completely destroy Obamacare and has no plans to replace it while also stealing billions from Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in order to pay for the trillion and half in money he and his party just gave to the 1 percent.

If we are going to worry about socialism, I say we should attack the socialism of the rich that is the hallmark of the party of Trump, not the ‘socialism’ of the poor that is simply the Church’s teaching on the common good.

So since there is nothing necessarily incompatible about Catholic teaching about certain aspects of socialism, the question has to be asked, what exactly is Francis saying or doing that is contrary to the faith? I don’t see anything. What I see is offended American conservatives at CRISIS defending the perks of the super-wealthy.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:37 am

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 78 / pg 78 / pg 79 / pg 79 / pg 88 / pg 89 / pg 89 / pg 90


Secretariat of State looks to become even stronger in Vatican reforms [News Analysis]
Image
In a file photo, Pope Francis talks with Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Vatican secretary of state. (Credit: Alessandro Bianchi/Reuters via CNS)

After nearly 6 years of work, it looks like the new governing constitution of the Vatican should be published by the end of the summer.

On Saturday, the Spanish publication Vida Nueva will publish an article outlining some of the changes in the document, called Praedicate Evangelium, which Crux reported on earlier this week.

[…]

But one thing seems clear: The Vatican’s Secretariat of State will be the unchallenged 800-pound gorilla in the Vatican.

At the beginning of Francis’s pontificate, it was widely believed the Vatican’s Secretariat of State would be cut down to size in any reform of the Vatican Curia.

The office runs the Holy See’s diplomacy and is the channel through which the bishops’ conferences communicate with the Vatican. In addition, it performs a function as moderator of the Church’s central bureaucracy, effectively arranging the appointment of high-ranking officials in other Vatican offices.

When Francis was elected, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone was Secretary of State, and his tenure was viewed by most Vatican observers as disappointing at best, fueling speculation that the secretariat would be given a purely diplomatic function in the future.

In the earliest reforms, the pope established two new offices bearing the once-exclusive name “secretariat” — for the economy and for communication — which was supposed to highlight their equality with the Secretariat of State.

However, under Bertone’s successor Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Secretariat of State has not only squashed any putative plans of a downgrade, but like Obi Wan Kenobi, it has become “more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”

Traditionally, the CDF was a check on the secretariat’s power, since it could put a hold on Vatican documents to clear up any doctrinal ambiguity. Under Francis, the CDF has often been sidelined, and under Praedicate Evangelium this change in status will become official.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:17 am

+JMJ+

Pope sends aid to migrants stranded at the US border
Image
Migrants in Tijuana encamped by the wall marking the border with the United States (ANSA)

Thousands of Central American migrants in Mexico are in need of assistance.

Pope Francis has donated 500,000 dollars to assist migrants in Mexico. The funds, from the Peter’s Pence collections, will be distributed among 27 projects promoted by sixteen Mexican dioceses and religious congregations, which requested assistance in continuing to provide food, lodging, and basic necessities to the migrants.

US border closed

According to a statement from Peter’s Pence, “In recent months, thousands of migrants have arrived in Mexico, having travelled more than 4,000 kilometres on foot and with makeshift vehicles from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. Men and women, often with young children, flee poverty and violence, hoping for a better future in the United States. However, the US border remains closed to them.”

Diminished aid and media coverage

In particular, the aid is intended to assist the more than 75,000 people who arrived in Mexico in 2018, in six migrant caravans. “All these people were stranded, unable to enter the United States, without a home or livelihood”, the statement reads. “The Catholic Church hosts thousands of them in hotels within the dioceses or religious congregations, providing basic necessities, from housing to clothing”.

Although a great deal of attention was focused on the caravans at the time, the Peter’s Pence statement notes that “media coverage of this emergency has been decreasing, and as a result, aid to migrants by the government and private individuals has also decreased”.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:48 am

wosbald wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:17 am
+JMJ+

Pope sends aid to migrants stranded at the US border
Image
Migrants in Tijuana encamped by the wall marking the border with the United States (ANSA)

Thousands of Central American migrants in Mexico are in need of assistance.

Pope Francis has donated 500,000 dollars to assist migrants in Mexico. The funds, from the Peter’s Pence collections, will be distributed among 27 projects promoted by sixteen Mexican dioceses and religious congregations, which requested assistance in continuing to provide food, lodging, and basic necessities to the migrants.

US border closed

According to a statement from Peter’s Pence, “In recent months, thousands of migrants have arrived in Mexico, having travelled more than 4,000 kilometres on foot and with makeshift vehicles from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. Men and women, often with young children, flee poverty and violence, hoping for a better future in the United States. However, the US border remains closed to them.”

Diminished aid and media coverage

In particular, the aid is intended to assist the more than 75,000 people who arrived in Mexico in 2018, in six migrant caravans. “All these people were stranded, unable to enter the United States, without a home or livelihood”, the statement reads. “The Catholic Church hosts thousands of them in hotels within the dioceses or religious congregations, providing basic necessities, from housing to clothing”.

Although a great deal of attention was focused on the caravans at the time, the Peter’s Pence statement notes that “media coverage of this emergency has been decreasing, and as a result, aid to migrants by the government and private individuals has also decreased”.

[…]
Image
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:17 pm

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:48 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:17 am
Pope sends aid to migrants stranded at the US border
Image
Migrants in Tijuana encamped by the wall marking the border with the United States (ANSA)

Thousands of Central American migrants in Mexico are in need of assistance.

Pope Francis has donated 500,000 dollars to assist migrants in Mexico. The funds, from the Peter’s Pence collections, will be distributed among 27 projects promoted by sixteen Mexican dioceses and religious congregations, which requested assistance in continuing to provide food, lodging, and basic necessities to the migrants.

US border closed

According to a statement from Peter’s Pence, “In recent months, thousands of migrants have arrived in Mexico, having travelled more than 4,000 kilometres on foot and with makeshift vehicles from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. Men and women, often with young children, flee poverty and violence, hoping for a better future in the United States. However, the US border remains closed to them.”

Diminished aid and media coverage

In particular, the aid is intended to assist the more than 75,000 people who arrived in Mexico in 2018, in six migrant caravans. “All these people were stranded, unable to enter the United States, without a home or livelihood”, the statement reads. “The Catholic Church hosts thousands of them in hotels within the dioceses or religious congregations, providing basic necessities, from housing to clothing”.

Although a great deal of attention was focused on the caravans at the time, the Peter’s Pence statement notes that “media coverage of this emergency has been decreasing, and as a result, aid to migrants by the government and private individuals has also decreased”.

[…]
Image

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:36 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:17 pm
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:48 am
wosbald wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:17 am
Pope sends aid to migrants stranded at the US border
Image
Migrants in Tijuana encamped by the wall marking the border with the United States (ANSA)

Thousands of Central American migrants in Mexico are in need of assistance.

Pope Francis has donated 500,000 dollars to assist migrants in Mexico. The funds, from the Peter’s Pence collections, will be distributed among 27 projects promoted by sixteen Mexican dioceses and religious congregations, which requested assistance in continuing to provide food, lodging, and basic necessities to the migrants.

US border closed

According to a statement from Peter’s Pence, “In recent months, thousands of migrants have arrived in Mexico, having travelled more than 4,000 kilometres on foot and with makeshift vehicles from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. Men and women, often with young children, flee poverty and violence, hoping for a better future in the United States. However, the US border remains closed to them.”

Diminished aid and media coverage

In particular, the aid is intended to assist the more than 75,000 people who arrived in Mexico in 2018, in six migrant caravans. “All these people were stranded, unable to enter the United States, without a home or livelihood”, the statement reads. “The Catholic Church hosts thousands of them in hotels within the dioceses or religious congregations, providing basic necessities, from housing to clothing”.

Although a great deal of attention was focused on the caravans at the time, the Peter’s Pence statement notes that “media coverage of this emergency has been decreasing, and as a result, aid to migrants by the government and private individuals has also decreased”.

[…]
Image
:lol:

I'm glad they're being taken care of, frankly. I just think the meme is great.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:01 am

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackback: pg 90


Pope makes donation to help migrants traveling through Mexico [In-Depth]
Image
A family of Central American migrants is detained by Mexican federal police officers April 22, 2019, in Pijijiapan, Mexico, during their journey toward the United States. (CNS/Jose Cabezas, Reuters)

TAPACHULA, Mexico — Pope Francis has donated $500,000 to assist migrants attempting to travel through Mexico, but who are increasingly being impeded by Mexican officials from reaching the U.S. border.

Those migrants who travel the length of Mexico are also being impeded in their attempts to apply for asylum in the United States and remain in precarious conditions south of the border.

The donation "will be distributed among 27 projects in 16 dioceses and Mexican religious congregations that have asked for help to continue providing housing, food and basic necessities to these brothers and sisters," the Vatican charity Peter's Pence said in an April 27 statement.

The Vatican already approved projects run by seven dioceses and three religious congregations: the Scalabrinians, the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary and the Hermanas Josefinas.

The donation comes as the crush of migrants arriving at the U.S. border reaches levels not seen in more than a decade. Mexico's Catholic Church has helped the migrants with little cooperation from the various levels of government.

[…]

The donation was made as Mexico comes under U.S. pressure and steps up its own enforcement against migrants — backpedaling from a promise made by President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador in his 2018 campaign not to "do the dirty work of any foreign government."

[…]

Shelter operators in border cities say they cannot attend to migrants arriving from the south, a flood of deportees and ever-more asylum-seekers requiring long-term shelter as they wait in Mexico to make their claims in the United States.

Additionally, "Among the residents of the towns and cities where some of these shelters are, they have started to raise strong concerns about informal campaigns that 'criminalize' migrants and impede them from being able to obtain jobs, rent an apartment or travel quietly in the streets," the bishops' statement said.

Churches in the Dioceses of Tapachula, which serves the path through Chiapas state that caravans have followed upon entering Mexico, previously responded with outpourings of generosity when caravans first arrived. But priests say the fatigue has set in and fewer people pitch in.

Bishop Jaime Calderón of Tapachula told reporters April 28 the church would continue to support migrants, even if public opinion — often influenced by false rumors spread on social media of migrants misbehaving — wasn't favorable.

"We have spoken here of a humanitarian crisis and we believe, in accordance with our faith, we have to help. They're brothers," Calderón said.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:06 am

wosbald wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:01 am
+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackback: pg 90


Pope makes donation to help migrants traveling through Mexico [In-Depth]
Image
A family of Central American migrants is detained by Mexican federal police officers April 22, 2019, in Pijijiapan, Mexico, during their journey toward the United States. (CNS/Jose Cabezas, Reuters)

TAPACHULA, Mexico — Pope Francis has donated $500,000 to assist migrants attempting to travel through Mexico, but who are increasingly being impeded by Mexican officials from reaching the U.S. border.

Those migrants who travel the length of Mexico are also being impeded in their attempts to apply for asylum in the United States and remain in precarious conditions south of the border.

The donation "will be distributed among 27 projects in 16 dioceses and Mexican religious congregations that have asked for help to continue providing housing, food and basic necessities to these brothers and sisters," the Vatican charity Peter's Pence said in an April 27 statement.

The Vatican already approved projects run by seven dioceses and three religious congregations: the Scalabrinians, the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary and the Hermanas Josefinas.

The donation comes as the crush of migrants arriving at the U.S. border reaches levels not seen in more than a decade. Mexico's Catholic Church has helped the migrants with little cooperation from the various levels of government.

[…]

The donation was made as Mexico comes under U.S. pressure and steps up its own enforcement against migrants — backpedaling from a promise made by President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador in his 2018 campaign not to "do the dirty work of any foreign government."

[…]

Shelter operators in border cities say they cannot attend to migrants arriving from the south, a flood of deportees and ever-more asylum-seekers requiring long-term shelter as they wait in Mexico to make their claims in the United States.

Additionally, "Among the residents of the towns and cities where some of these shelters are, they have started to raise strong concerns about informal campaigns that 'criminalize' migrants and impede them from being able to obtain jobs, rent an apartment or travel quietly in the streets," the bishops' statement said.

Churches in the Dioceses of Tapachula, which serves the path through Chiapas state that caravans have followed upon entering Mexico, previously responded with outpourings of generosity when caravans first arrived. But priests say the fatigue has set in and fewer people pitch in.

Bishop Jaime Calderón of Tapachula told reporters April 28 the church would continue to support migrants, even if public opinion — often influenced by false rumors spread on social media of migrants misbehaving — wasn't favorable.

"We have spoken here of a humanitarian crisis and we believe, in accordance with our faith, we have to help. They're brothers," Calderón said.

[…]
I'd posted an article which reported on Cardinal Robert Sarah's comments about mass migration. At the time you highlighted a quote from the article stating Sarah's comments being in stark contrast to the Pope's and how Francis "has repeatedly stressed the value of migration and has encouraged European countries, in particular, to open their border to flows of migrants coming from the third world" and your only comment was a laughing emoji.

Now at the time I didn't comment because the quote wasn't from Cardinal Sarah but was a comment by the writer of the article, and Sarah's comments were the reason I posted. I let it slide.

But after this, I'm wondering why you were laughing. It is apparent that Francis is not only talking of supporting migrants, but now financially aiding them. I was assuming your laughter was in regards to the hamfisted way in which the article handled the Pope's position, but as that comment is seemingly confirmed every time the Pope speaks about migration or in this, donating to aid migrants in their migration, I'm wondering why the laughter. Is it because you think Cardinal Sarah's comments aren't in contrast to the Pope on this subject?

(Note: If you wanna pop this over to the Migrant Caravan thread in response, I'm cool with that)
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:32 pm

+JM+
tuttle wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:06 am
[…]

… It is apparent that Francis is not only talking of supporting migrants, but now financially aiding them. …

[…]
Image

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:03 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:32 pm
+JM+
tuttle wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:06 am
[…]

… It is apparent that Francis is not only talking of supporting migrants, but now financially aiding them. …

[…]
Image
I'm convinced Wos left years ago and turned his account over to a particularly gay Jesuit. Or he had a stroke. But something happened.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:19 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:03 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:32 pm
+JM+
tuttle wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:06 am
[…]

… It is apparent that Francis is not only talking of supporting migrants, but now financially aiding them. …

[…]
Image
I'm convinced Wos left years ago and turned his account over to a particularly gay Jesuit. Or he had a stroke. But something happened.
Something certainly happened. Yes, for sure. Darn shame too, he used to have some of the most entertaining, yet thought provoking posts. Now he just posts other people’s posts basically. They aren’t as good as he was. We just have to realize that Wosbald is gone. Has anyone actually seen or spoken to him in the last two or three years? Come to think of it, I haven’t and I used to speak with him every month or three! 8O
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“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:43 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:19 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:03 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:32 pm
+JM+
tuttle wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:06 am
[…]

… It is apparent that Francis is not only talking of supporting migrants, but now financially aiding them. …

[…]
Image
I'm convinced Wos left years ago and turned his account over to a particularly gay Jesuit. Or he had a stroke. But something happened.
Something certainly happened. Yes, for sure. Darn shame too, he used to have some of the most entertaining, yet thought provoking posts. Now he just posts other people’s posts basically. They aren’t as good as he was. We just have to realize that Wosbald is gone. Has anyone actually seen or spoken to him in the last two or three years? Come to think of it, I haven’t and I used to speak with him every month or three! 8O
No. We live about 90 miles apart and have never met, much to my chagrin.

Maybe we could invite him back? I loved Wosbald, man. He's worth so much more than potato chips and papal propaganda.×



×Papal autocorrects to PayPal. Fuggin corporations.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:08 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:43 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:19 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:03 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:32 pm
+JM+
tuttle wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:06 am
[…]

… It is apparent that Francis is not only talking of supporting migrants, but now financially aiding them. …

[…]
Image
I'm convinced Wos left years ago and turned his account over to a particularly gay Jesuit. Or he had a stroke. But something happened.
Something certainly happened. Yes, for sure. Darn shame too, he used to have some of the most entertaining, yet thought provoking posts. Now he just posts other people’s posts basically. They aren’t as good as he was. We just have to realize that Wosbald is gone. Has anyone actually seen or spoken to him in the last two or three years? Come to think of it, I haven’t and I used to speak with him every month or three! 8O
No. We live about 90 miles apart and have never met, much to my chagrin.

Maybe we could invite him back? I loved Wosbald, man. He's worth so much more than potato chips and papal propaganda.×



×Papal autocorrects to PayPal. Fuggin corporations.
Well, they’re basically right about immigration though, you know? :)

I love the Jesuit order. They bring out the side of God the rest of the church wants to pretend isn’t there. :twisted:
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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