I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:20 pm

+JMJ+

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Vatican agreement with China likely to be renewed, archbishop says
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A man waves a Chinese flag in St. Peter's Square as Pope Francis leads his Angelus July 17, 2016. (Credit: Tony Gentile/Reuters via CNS)

ROME — Italian Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli said in a recent interview that while the Vatican’s relationship with China is complex, a 2018 provisional agreement on the appointment of bishops will likely be renewed.

“The provisional agreement with China expires in September of this year and we must find a formula, we must see what to do,” Celli said in a recent interview with the Stanze Vaticane program of Italian television network, TGCOM24.

Celli, a longtime Vatican diplomat and former president of the Pontifical Council for Communications, was the key negotiator of the agreement. He told the television program the tone of the Vatican’s interaction with China thus far has been one of “respect, clarity, co-responsibility and foresight.”

“We are trying to look toward the future, and we are trying to give to the future of our realizations a deep and respectful basis, and I would say that we are working in this sense,” he said, insisting that the path forward with China was outlined in Pope Francis’s letter to Catholics in China, shortly after the provisional agreement was signed in 2018.

Celli’s declaration that the agreement is set to expire and will likely be renewed is the first public information about the deal that has been provided, as the terms of the accord were never published.

[…]

In his interview with TGCOM24, Celli said it is “undeniable that there are situations and events that require a path that will not be easy,” but he insisted that despite the bumps in the road, the Holy See “wants to continue with this step, it wants to go forward and arrive to a normality from which the Chinese Catholic Church can fully express its fidelity to the Gospel and also in respect of being Chinese.”

“The Catholic Church in China must be fully Chinese, but fully Catholic! There are no discounts to make,” he said. As things move along, “we must all be faithful to the Gospel.”

“It is not an easy path, but we have embarked on a journey of respect, attention and mutual understanding to resolve those knots that remain and those situations which leave us more than thoughtful, I would say worried,” he said, noting that the path to take, “has already been indicated. We must carry it forward.”

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Onyx » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm

Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:57 pm

Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm
Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?
I am so glad to see you, Onyx!!

:wavey:
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Onyx » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:55 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:57 pm
Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm
Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?
I am so glad to see you, Onyx!!

:wavey:
Thank you. Good to see you. Have you seen the netflix film, The Two Popes?

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:59 pm

Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:55 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:57 pm
Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm
Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?
I am so glad to see you, Onyx!!

:wavey:
Thank you. Good to see you. Have you seen the netflix film, The Two Popes?
No. Have you seen The Young Pope?
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
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non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Onyx » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:25 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:59 pm
Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:55 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:57 pm
Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm
Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?
I am so glad to see you, Onyx!!

:wavey:
Thank you. Good to see you. Have you seen the netflix film, The Two Popes?
No. Have you seen The Young Pope?
No, should I?

The Two Popes is worth seeing. Even just for the film making craft of it. It left me even more unsure of how I feel about both popes portrayed, but as a film, I loved it.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:35 am

Anyone catch Pope Joan?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:01 am

Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm
Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?
Wosbald 2.0 uses CPS to archive all of his articles and references for some grand thesis he is working on.

We think it has something to do with the Templars.
"Anyone who knows anything of experts will know one thing for certain; that they will always be disturbing our way of living; and therefore we shall always be disputing their right of governing." - GKC. Feb 11, 1933.

The future is certain; it’s the past that keeps changing. ~ Old Soviet joke

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:12 am

Del wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:01 am
Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm
Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?
Wosbald 2.0 uses CPS to archive all of his articles and references for some grand thesis he is working on.

We think it has something to do with the Templars.
When Francis became Pope he pushed a big red button and all the Jesuits became activated.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Del » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:35 pm

tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:12 am
Del wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:01 am
Onyx wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm
Ok, I know I'm 125 pages late. But is wosbald starting to like this pope?
Wosbald 2.0 uses CPS to archive all of his articles and references for some grand thesis he is working on.

We think it has something to do with the Templars.
When Francis became Pope he pushed a big red button and all the Jesuits became activated.
Image
"Anyone who knows anything of experts will know one thing for certain; that they will always be disturbing our way of living; and therefore we shall always be disputing their right of governing." - GKC. Feb 11, 1933.

The future is certain; it’s the past that keeps changing. ~ Old Soviet joke

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:01 am

+JMJ+

Intra-thread Trackbacks: pg 63 / pg 64 / pg 65 / pg 65 / pg 66 / pg 66 / pg 73 / pg 84 / pg 120 / pg 123 / pg 124 / pg 124 / pg 124

Inter-Thread Trackbacks:
"Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholic Integralism": pg 4 / pg 6 / pg 6 / pg6 / pg 6 / pg 6



The extremist reactionaries have all the oxygen they need [Opinion]
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This evening, the President of the United States of America amplified a voice that is basically calling for the downfall of the entire Catholic hierarchy.


► Show Spoiler
With this one Tweet, the nature of the division in the Church has come into sharp focus, and the stakes — such as they are — have risen.

On some level, this can be seen as the president’s answer to the statement delivered by Archbishop Wilton Gregory criticizing a visit by President Trump to the Saint John Paul II National Shrine in Washington, DC, on June 2. Last week, CNA reported that White House officials produced emails suggesting that Archbishop Gregory had been aware of the impending visit to the Shrine, which is operated by the Knights of Columbus, days before previous reports had indicated. This subtle attempt to undermine the archbishop’s credibility has now given way to an explicit presidential endorsement of Archbishop Viganò‘s open letter to Trump, written in response to the controversy.

The letter itself is the usual combination of paranoia, apocalypticism, Manichaeism, and conspiracy theories that we have come to expect from Viganò‘s letters. Trump’s public endorsement of the letter does cause some serious problems in the US Church and raises a number of questions.

First of all, by using his platform to amplify the voice of an ecclesial and magisterial arsonist in the Church, Catholics and other Americans have been encouraged by their president to read and approve of Viganò’s dangerous and anti-Christian ideology.

[…]

But most of all, this shows the influence that is held by the Viganò wing of the Church in the US.

In our most recent podcast, Adam Rasmussen commented that he once agreed with the Catholics who said it was best to ignore reactionary characters like Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider, Raymond Arroyo, and Taylor Marshall. Ignore them and they’ll go away, they suggested. He eventually came to realize that they are not going away. They have money, they have influence, they have grassroots support, and now it’s apparent that they have the backing of some very powerful people in the American government.

And for those who perhaps have not seen it firsthand, I assure you: there are parishes in this country where Archbishop Viganò‘s message is being preached from the pulpit. Members of bible studies and prayer groups in your diocese are discussing the “courage” of Viganò and others.

Our faith tells us that the Truth will win in the end, and that those who stand with the Successor of Peter stand with the Church.

But the enemies of the Truth, those who are determined to destroy Christ’s Vicar, can do a great deal of damage in the meantime.

I hope this serves as a wakeup call.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:49 pm

+JMJ+

Intra-thread Trackbacks: pg 63 / pg 64 / pg 65 / pg 65 / pg 66 / pg 66 / pg 73 / pg 84 / pg 120 / pg 123 / pg 124 / pg 124 / pg 124 / pg 125

Inter-Thread Trackbacks:
"Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholic Integralism": pg 4 / pg 6 / pg 6 / pg6 / pg 6 / pg 6



Is Archbishop Viganò in Schism? [In-Depth, Opinion]
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Is Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò in schism? This is a serious question, and it’s not one to be taken lightly. The 1983 Code of Canon Law [CIC] defines schism as “the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him” (canon 751), and the Catechism of the Catholic Church cites this same definition (CCC 2089). I raise the question of Archbishop Viganò in light of some extreme accusations he has made against Pope Francis since last November. The language used by Viganò against Pope Francis — and more recently against Vatican II and the post-conciliar Catholic Church — suggests that the former papal nuncio to the USA is refusing submission to the Roman Pontiff. Some examples bear this out.

[…]

As can be seen, Archbishop Viganò accuses Pope Francis of having a “false magisterium” that promotes heresies, idolatry, and the subversion of two thousand years of Tradition. If this is what Viganò believes about Pope Francis, he cannot in good faith submit to him as the Supreme Pontiff. But such refusal of submission is the very definition of schism.

What is most disturbing is that Archbishop Viganò levels these serious accusations against Pope Francis and the Church without any evidence except his own assertions. The idolatry claim stems from a prayer service that took place in the Vatican Gardens on October 4, 2019. This service, though, was profoundly Catholic, and the claim that idolatry took place has been refuted in a series of detailed articles by Pedro Gabriel. It is an exercise in rash judgment to insist that idolatry took place during the Amazon Synod without any convincing evidence. Pope Francis has explained that there was no idolatrous intent connected with the wooden statues, but this is not convincing to Viganò because he’s already made up his mind that Pope Francis is an apostate modernist who can’t be trusted.

[…]

The most extreme words of Archbishop Viganò thus far are found in his letter of June 9, 2020 that was published in Italian on the website of Marco Tosatti and in English by Inside the Vatican and other sites. In this letter, the Archbishop not only states that “the demythologization of the Papacy” is a theme of Francis’s pontificate, but he also points to “the situation of the most serious apostasy to which the highest levels of the Hierarchy are exposed.” In his June 9 letter, Viganò expresses his conviction that the roots of the problem go back to Vatican II. Moreover, he believes that the efforts to read the Council’s documents with the hermeneutic of continuity have now “shipwrecked miserably” (miseramente naufragati) in confrontation with the present crisis. Where does this crisis leave the Church? Here is how the Archbishop reads the signs of the times:
… [It] is undeniable that from Vatican II onwards a parallel church was built, superimposed over and diametrically opposed to the true Church of Christ. This parallel church progressively obscured the divine institution founded by Our Lord in order to replace it with a spurious entity, corresponding to the desired universal religion that was first theorized by Masonry.
Apparently Archbishop Viganò does not believe that the Church in communion with Pope Francis is the true Church of Christ. Instead, it is “a spurious entity” corresponding to a Masonic inspired “universal religion.” For Viganò, the Abrahamic Family House being built in Abu Dhabi signifies “the triumph of the Masonic plan in preparation for the kingdom of the Antichrist!” He makes this claim even though there will be separate worship services in the church, the synagogue, and the mosque built on the common foundation of the “Family House.”

If the Church in communion with Pope Francis is “a spurious entity” where is the true Church of Christ today? Is it to be found in the faithful remnant of true believers made up of those who follow the thinking of Viganò? The Archbishop apparently believes that the “spurious entity” of the Church under Francis is part of “a globalist plan that has as its goal the cancellation of the Catholic Church, in order to replace it with a confederation of idolaters and heretics united by environmentalism and universal brotherhood.”

[…]

I could give other examples of inaccurate claims and accusations made by Archbishop Viganò, but I think these will suffice. If the Archbishop wishes us to believe that the Church under Pope Francis is a “spurious entity,” what confidence can we have in the “Church” that he claims to follow when his “Church” seems to be grounded in dubious accusations that don’t measure up to careful scrutiny? It seems that Archbishop Viganò has established his claims on conspiracy theories of Masonic infiltrations that have made the Church under Pope Francis a “spurious entity” preparing the way for “the kingdom of the Antichrist.” What, though, becomes of the dogma of the indefectibility of the Church of Christ grounded in the teaching of Vatican I that the “See of Peter remains always untainted by any error according to the divine promise of our Lord and Savior made to the prince of his disciples: ‘But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren’ [Lk 22:32].” (cf. Denz.-H, 3070).

If Archbishop Viganò truly believes that Pope Francis is propagating heresies, idolatry, and apostasy, then either Christ’s promise to the Church has failed or the Church led by Pope Francis is not the Church of Christ. If Viganò believes that Christ has failed in his promise, then he sets himself against Sacred Scripture and the teaching of Vatican I. If he believes that the Church led by Pope Francis is not the true Church of Christ, then either he is a schismatic or a sedevacantist.

I honestly believe Archbishop Viganò has become a victim of his own hyperbolic rhetoric. He wishes to uphold Catholic tradition as he sees it, but his own words place him in a very tenuous ecclesiastical position. An archbishop of the Catholic Church who makes such overt and egregious accusations against the sitting Roman Pontiff is clearly refusing submission to the Supreme Pontiff, which according to canon 751 of the CIC, places him at least in material schism from the Catholic Church. I say material schism because it would be up to competent authority to determine whether canons 1364 §1 or 194, §1, n.2 of the CIC apply to Archbishop Viganò.

With that said, I would not favor any canonical sanctions placed on Archbishop Viganò, out of concern that it would only embolden his followers and lead to greater resistance to the Holy Father. I think the policy chosen by Pope Francis is the better path, which is that of pastoral charity and silence. We need to pray for Archbishop Viganò and hope that he will once again assume his previous attitude of trust and obedience toward the Apostolic See. The Archbishop seems to have a sincere devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Let us ask for the intercession of the Mother of the Church to touch the heart of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò so he can once again become a loyal son of the Church that has the Roman Pontiff, Pope Francis, as her “visible source and foundation of faith and communion” (Lumen Gentium, 18).

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:45 am

+JMJ+

Intra-thread Trackbacks: pg 63 / pg 64 / pg 65 / pg 65 / pg 66 / pg 66 / pg 73 / pg 84 / pg 120 / pg 123 / pg 124 / pg 124 / pg 124 / pg 125 / pg 125

Inter-Thread Trackbacks:
"Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholic Integralism": pg 4 / pg 6 / pg 6 / pg6 / pg 6 / pg 6



Will conservative Catholics be horrified by latest Viganò letter? [Opinion]
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Italian Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, former apostolic nuncio to the United States, is pictured at his residence at the Vatican on Oct. 20, 2011 (CNS/Paul Haring)

No, President Donald Trump's decision to send out a tweet saying how honored he was to receive an unctuous letter from Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, the former apostolic nuncio to the United States, does not amount to a hill of beans politically. What interest the development holds — apart from its exquisite voyeuristic value — is on the religious side of the church-state ledger.

[…]

I do not agree with David Gibson, director of the Center on Religion and Culture at Fordham University, who told the Tablet, "Trump is on dangerous terrain with white Catholics. Catholics who support him may not love Pope Francis, but if they see the president attack the Pope they may not be happy." The majority of white Catholics vote Republican, and they have long been willing to shop in the Catholic teaching cafeteria in order to support their candidates. (Of course, the cafeteria phenomenon is found on the Catholic left too, but they are not a part of the current brouhaha.) Catholics who support Trump are not likely to be moved by an attack on a pope they probably do not much care for anyway.

Image
Robert Royal, Raymond Arroyo and Fr. Gerald Murray (NCR screenshot from The World Over on YouTube)

Raymond Arroyo and his "papal posse" on EWTN — Fr. Gerald Murray and writer Robert Royal — did not spend too much time talking about Viganò but used his letter to complain about the treatment Trump received at the hands of Washington Archbishop Wilton Gregory when Gregory spoke against Trump's photo-op at the St. John Paul II Shrine. It was mind-numbingly absurd. Arroyo and his guests argued that Gregory was showing his antipathy toward the president and that bishops are well advised to respect the office of the presidency, no matter who is in the White House. None of the three remembered the treatment President Barack Obama received when he went to the University of Notre Dame in 2009.

While it is doubtful the Viganò episode will cause any political fallout, it might cause some Catholics to reconsider their religious stance. Arroyo's television show is one of the ways news items and opinions migrate from the extreme Catholic fringe into the mainstream of conservative Catholicism. I suspect Viganò's letter was so filled with craziness, even Arroyo knew it was a mistake to call attention to it. But, with his tweet, the president apparently introduced millions of his fellow Americans to the fact that an archbishop with a long and influential career can also write things that can charitably be called deranged.

Up until the president's tweet, Viganò's letter had been reported at LifeSiteNews, which is a fringe outlet. Those who frequent the site would not be alarmed by the bizarre conspiracy theories and apocalyptic tenor of the archbishop's letter. That is standard fare there. When items cross over into the Catholic mainstream from LifeSiteNews, usually via EWTN or their news service the Catholic News Agency, then the bishops need to pay attention and worry about the consequences. This time, it was the president's tweet that drove millions to the LifeSiteNews website. I wonder what they will make of the offerings there. Most Catholics, most conservative Catholics, do not question the Second Vatican Council, do not hate gay people, do not think the Second Coming is just around the corner and it will be bad for just about everyone. The pre-conciliar understandings of the faith the site peddles bear no resemblance to the teachings of St. Pope Paul VI, or St. Pope John Paul II, or Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, that is, the teachings most Catholics have heard at Mass these many years.

I hope these first-time visitors to LifeSiteNews are appropriately horrified and rethink what they mean when they call themselves "conservative," maybe even reconsider whatever biases they have against Francis. But, change their politics? Not a shot.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:44 am

+JMJ+

[mispost]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Goose55 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:04 pm

Still talking about the Pope in a pipe smoking forum. I struggle to understand that. I really do.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:16 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:04 pm
Still talking about the Pope in a pipe smoking forum. I struggle to understand that. I really do.
To be fair, Wosbald is a lot like a guy that just bought a new truck and a Cooleroo. :lol:

I thing Goose makes a fair point.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by coco » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:13 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:04 pm
Still talking about the Pope in a pipe smoking forum. I struggle to understand that. I really do.
It is a Christian pipe smoking forum. I'm pretty sure that makes talk about the Pope fair game.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:04 am

Goose55 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:04 pm
Still talking about the Pope in a pipe smoking forum. I struggle to understand that. I really do.
The best way to understand is by posting a "Why do we talk about the Pope in a pipe smoking forum?" thread.

A couple people might attempt a real answer, FredS will be one of them and then you'll feel slightly guilty at asking the question in the first place, but it will mostly take a turn towards jokes and shenanigans before it ultimately gets spammed with so many wosposts that you'll end up ignoring it for long bouts of time until that same urge to clean up your email hits and then you'll hop in just to see if there are anything but links but you're wrong. It's a forest of links, with a canopy even, and only then will you start to understand.

It is the CPS way.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:32 am

+JMJ+

Intra-thread Trackbacks: pg 63 / pg 64 / pg 65 / pg 65 / pg 66 / pg 66 / pg 73 / pg 84 / pg 120 / pg 123 / pg 124 / pg 124 / pg 124 / pg 125 / pg 125 / pg 125

Inter-Thread Trackbacks:
"Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholic Integralism": pg 4 / pg 6 / pg 6 / pg6 / pg 6 / pg 6



Priests, parishes share Viganò's letter to Trump [In-Depth]
Image
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò at St. Agnes Cathedral in Rockville Centre, New York, in a 2012 file photo (CNS/Long Island Catholic/Gregory A. Shemitz)

When Steven Rafferty's wife, Kathy, noticed Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò's recent letter to Donald Trump posted on the official Facebook page of their parish, she left a comment questioning the integrity of both the sender and recipient of the letter.

The letter was quickly deleted, but it was a breaking point for the Raffertys, who attend Immaculate Conception in Cottonwood, Arizona.

[…]

For the Raffertys, seeing their parish share the writing of an Italian archbishop who had previously called for Pope Francis' resignation, left them "disinclined to participate in a parish that promotes this kind of stuff," Steven Rafferty told NCR.

"I'm usually pretty quiet," he said. "This is the first time I've taken a stand. The Viganò thing is just unreal and out of control."

Although Rafferty tries to stay informed about church news, many fellow parishioners rely on what they hear from the parish to shape their understanding of church life on both a local and global level, he said. Viganò "does not deserve our time," Rafferty said. "He's undermining church authority and the pope, and it disturbs me very much."

Rafferty's story is not an outlier. Across the country, priests have used their homilies, bulletins and parish social media to promote Viganò, who since issuing an 11-page testimonial manifesto against Francis in August 2018 has been heralded by many right-wing Catholics as leading the resistance to Francis' papacy.

[…]

While many mainstream Catholics have dismissed the former Vatican diplomat, who has written of Masonic conspiracy theories and fueled suspicions of the deep state, some Catholic observers worry about a normalizing effect when parish priests promote radicalized individuals such as Viganò to everyday Catholics in the pews who are unattuned to inside church baseball.

In many such cases, the priests in question use their homilies and parish resources to promote a fusion of traditionalist theology and conservative political talking points. In the weeks following Viganò's 2018 attack against Francis, many bishops' conferences around the globe issued statements specifically denouncing the former nuncio. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops did not.

[…]

According to Massimo Faggioli, a church historian at Villanova University, some church leaders operate under the assumption that "Catholics in the pews are protected from the calumnies and conspiracy theories thanks to a kind of ecclesial herd immunity," and hence, many choose to brush off Viganò as irrelevant.

"The fact is that only a small percentage of Catholics have been immunized by reading about Viganò since his already very eventful days in the Vatican, then as a nuncio to the U.S., and finally when he went rogue in August 2018," Faggioli told NCR.

[…]

Fr. Bob Bonnot, a retired pastor and executive director of the Association of U.S. Catholic Priests, told NCR that such efforts only serve to fuel the divisions among Catholics.

"Few people would have any sense of who Viganò is, and apart from their own bishop and maybe one or two other prominent bishops or cardinals, they wouldn't be able to tell you very much about the church hierarchy," Bonnot said.

Yet Bonnot warned that if parishioners respect and trust their pastor, they're likely to pay attention to what he says and the individuals or causes he promotes.

Faggioli told NCR that most Catholics are exposed to content such as Viganò's when it receives the endorsement of a local parish priest or through certain kinds of Catholic media. He said he understands the reluctance of the U.S. bishops' conference to speak collectively against Viganò "to avoid the danger to elevate him through an official sanction, a voluntary martyrdom that Viganò and his enablers would certainly welcome."

"On the other hand," said Faggioli, "when pastors are silent against the informal endorsements he receives in Catholic circles and in Catholic media, I think it is a failure in pastoral care — or worse, complicity in the scandal he has created since 2018."

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:34 pm

tuttle wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:04 am
Goose55 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:04 pm
Still talking about the Pope in a pipe smoking forum. I struggle to understand that. I really do.
The best way to understand is by posting a "Why do we talk about the Pope in a pipe smoking forum?" thread.

A couple people might attempt a real answer, FredS will be one of them and then you'll feel slightly guilty at asking the question in the first place, but it will mostly take a turn towards jokes and shenanigans before it ultimately gets spammed with so many wosposts that you'll end up ignoring it for long bouts of time until that same urge to clean up your email hits and then you'll hop in just to see if there are anything but links but you're wrong. It's a forest of links, with a canopy even, and only then will you start to understand.

It is the CPS way.
Goose is throwing a fit. Why validate his behavior?

Let him cry it out.
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
—Marcus Aurelius

non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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