GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

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hugodrax
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by hugodrax » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:38 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:17 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:10 pm
That changes with the situation, wouldn't you agree? I mean, there's a difference between the rubrics for attempting to determine legislative intent and reading an article. Word choice and tone tell a lot.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is this: are you telling me not to try to determine intent because it is unknowable, or to be damned careful of being cocksure that I've determined the right intent?

The second, I get behind one hundred percent. Look at our own interactions--I've certainly been mistaken as to your intent before now. We've felt each other out on a few occasions too, to make sure we weren't trying to get under the other's skin.

The first, I abominate. It's essentially telling me to drop my gloves completely and take it on the chin and not respond. This approach only really works in an academic setting. It's a laboratory approach, for lack of a better term: without absolutely controlled conditions, it fails.

If I was to adopt this approach, I'd be constantly writing follow up letters for definition and never resolving a case. I'd be reading the newspaper and not bothering to try to understand the underlying motives of the author.

Now, on the other hand, I think tuttle's brother is making a great mistake assuming you wrote the article.
I'm saying that intent can be knowable if one follows up with the author. If the author says "X" and you suspect "Y" then one needs more evidence. However, one can never know apart from the author's input even if one can suspect. Now, one can treat the author as if their intention is "Y" even though they said "X" but that is on The Reader; it seldom reflects reality and generally tells other readers more about The Reader than the author or the author's intent.
Of course, the only way to be one hundred percent certain is to ask the author, but to claim everyone has the time or the inclination to do that is absurd.

So you must not actually follow this rubric too closely, because you clearly have opinions and you clearly decide what you do and don't agree with. Intent is part of this. If you thought the authors intent was to make fun of left wing gun views, you wouldn't have posted the article, I think. Or are we to assume you do no more in posting an article than try to stir up debate?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by UncleBob » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:22 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:38 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:17 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:10 pm
That changes with the situation, wouldn't you agree? I mean, there's a difference between the rubrics for attempting to determine legislative intent and reading an article. Word choice and tone tell a lot.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is this: are you telling me not to try to determine intent because it is unknowable, or to be damned careful of being cocksure that I've determined the right intent?

The second, I get behind one hundred percent. Look at our own interactions--I've certainly been mistaken as to your intent before now. We've felt each other out on a few occasions too, to make sure we weren't trying to get under the other's skin.

The first, I abominate. It's essentially telling me to drop my gloves completely and take it on the chin and not respond. This approach only really works in an academic setting. It's a laboratory approach, for lack of a better term: without absolutely controlled conditions, it fails.

If I was to adopt this approach, I'd be constantly writing follow up letters for definition and never resolving a case. I'd be reading the newspaper and not bothering to try to understand the underlying motives of the author.

Now, on the other hand, I think tuttle's brother is making a great mistake assuming you wrote the article.
I'm saying that intent can be knowable if one follows up with the author. If the author says "X" and you suspect "Y" then one needs more evidence. However, one can never know apart from the author's input even if one can suspect. Now, one can treat the author as if their intention is "Y" even though they said "X" but that is on The Reader; it seldom reflects reality and generally tells other readers more about The Reader than the author or the author's intent.
Of course, the only way to be one hundred percent certain is to ask the author, but to claim everyone has the time or the inclination to do that is absurd.

So you must not actually follow this rubric too closely, because you clearly have opinions and you clearly decide what you do and don't agree with. Intent is part of this. If you thought the authors intent was to make fun of left wing gun views, you wouldn't have posted the article, I think. Or are we to assume you do no more in posting an article than try to stir up debate?
Actually, I told you earlier why I posted it: I thought the thesis worthy of consideration. I didn't come out on one side or the other.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by UncleBob » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:26 pm

Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:05 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:48 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:35 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:37 am
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:09 am
The article also confuses rights according to the Constitution. It explains how rights are not created equal because of government oppression. This assumes that government gives rights. This is an error. God gives rights and the constitution protects the rights God gave us. If there are any unlawful limitations on your rights it is un-Constitutional.
This, right here, is the issue and may be why he tied gun rights to the Bible belt. Did God give us the right to bear arms? And if so, did He give us the right to own guns? The freedom of speech? Right to assembly? A free press? No, but this is how Americanism gets tied to Christianity.
If a man was found raping your wife would stop him with force? If you were being aggressively attacked on the street would you use your fist as a weapon? If a person was attacking your family or stranger in any way, do you have a God given right to bear an arm and use it against that person? Did God give us a right to defend ourselves? I think you would have to drive a real hard case to show me otherwise.
Guns make it easy to kill people... so do rocks.

Why is it Americanized Christianity to believe that I have God-given rights? Is it because Chinese Christianity would say that we have little to no rights?
Cool. Then give up your guns, as Christians, and carry rocks.
Why?
That way you have your "God-given" right to defend yourself without tying it to a "God-given" right to a gun in the Constitution. That way the nation can have a conversation about gun control without tying it to religion. Would you not have the means to defend and the right to defend even if guns were banned?
So you separate yourself from the Constitution because you believe in slavery? No, you stand against it because you agree with the Constitution as do I. For some reason you have this strange notion that agreeing with the Constitution automatically makes chimera Christian-Constitutionalists hybrids. So I can agree with lots of stuff in there until you disagree with it. Then I make guns my god.
I agree with free-speech. Is free-speech my god? I agree with a speedy trial. Is a speedy trial my god? I agree we can bear arms. Does that make bearing arms my god?
I don't know if they are your god--that is for you to consider. I do know that many tie Americanism to Christianity and that many do equate the right to bear arms with a God-given right: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-right- ... in-the-USA
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by hugodrax » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:32 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:22 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:38 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:17 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:10 pm
That changes with the situation, wouldn't you agree? I mean, there's a difference between the rubrics for attempting to determine legislative intent and reading an article. Word choice and tone tell a lot.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is this: are you telling me not to try to determine intent because it is unknowable, or to be damned careful of being cocksure that I've determined the right intent?

The second, I get behind one hundred percent. Look at our own interactions--I've certainly been mistaken as to your intent before now. We've felt each other out on a few occasions too, to make sure we weren't trying to get under the other's skin.

The first, I abominate. It's essentially telling me to drop my gloves completely and take it on the chin and not respond. This approach only really works in an academic setting. It's a laboratory approach, for lack of a better term: without absolutely controlled conditions, it fails.

If I was to adopt this approach, I'd be constantly writing follow up letters for definition and never resolving a case. I'd be reading the newspaper and not bothering to try to understand the underlying motives of the author.

Now, on the other hand, I think tuttle's brother is making a great mistake assuming you wrote the article.
I'm saying that intent can be knowable if one follows up with the author. If the author says "X" and you suspect "Y" then one needs more evidence. However, one can never know apart from the author's input even if one can suspect. Now, one can treat the author as if their intention is "Y" even though they said "X" but that is on The Reader; it seldom reflects reality and generally tells other readers more about The Reader than the author or the author's intent.
Of course, the only way to be one hundred percent certain is to ask the author, but to claim everyone has the time or the inclination to do that is absurd.

So you must not actually follow this rubric too closely, because you clearly have opinions and you clearly decide what you do and don't agree with. Intent is part of this. If you thought the authors intent was to make fun of left wing gun views, you wouldn't have posted the article, I think. Or are we to assume you do no more in posting an article than try to stir up debate?
Actually, I told you earlier why I posted it: I thought the thesis worthy of consideration. I didn't come out on one side or the other.
Remember, I'm just trying to figure out your intent, sir. I can respect that. I understand now.

You sure seem to stir up a lot of hornets nests, though. :D
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Jester » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:51 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:26 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:05 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:48 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:35 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:37 am
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:09 am
The article also confuses rights according to the Constitution. It explains how rights are not created equal because of government oppression. This assumes that government gives rights. This is an error. God gives rights and the constitution protects the rights God gave us. If there are any unlawful limitations on your rights it is un-Constitutional.
This, right here, is the issue and may be why he tied gun rights to the Bible belt. Did God give us the right to bear arms? And if so, did He give us the right to own guns? The freedom of speech? Right to assembly? A free press? No, but this is how Americanism gets tied to Christianity.
If a man was found raping your wife would stop him with force? If you were being aggressively attacked on the street would you use your fist as a weapon? If a person was attacking your family or stranger in any way, do you have a God given right to bear an arm and use it against that person? Did God give us a right to defend ourselves? I think you would have to drive a real hard case to show me otherwise.
Guns make it easy to kill people... so do rocks.

Why is it Americanized Christianity to believe that I have God-given rights? Is it because Chinese Christianity would say that we have little to no rights?
Cool. Then give up your guns, as Christians, and carry rocks.
Why?
That way you have your "God-given" right to defend yourself without tying it to a "God-given" right to a gun in the Constitution. That way the nation can have a conversation about gun control without tying it to religion. Would you not have the means to defend and the right to defend even if guns were banned?
So you separate yourself from the Constitution because you believe in slavery? No, you stand against it because you agree with the Constitution as do I. For some reason you have this strange notion that agreeing with the Constitution automatically makes chimera Christian-Constitutionalists hybrids. So I can agree with lots of stuff in there until you disagree with it. Then I make guns my god.
I agree with free-speech. Is free-speech my god? I agree with a speedy trial. Is a speedy trial my god? I agree we can bear arms. Does that make bearing arms my god?
I don't know if they are your god--that is for you to consider. I do know that many tie Americanism to Christianity and that many do equate the right to bear arms with a God-given right: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-right- ... in-the-USA
Explain to me why the right to bear arms is not a God-given right.
I smoke a cigar because the body is a temple and the temple needs incense. -Michael Knowles

Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by UncleBob » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:51 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:26 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:05 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:48 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:35 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:37 am
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:09 am
The article also confuses rights according to the Constitution. It explains how rights are not created equal because of government oppression. This assumes that government gives rights. This is an error. God gives rights and the constitution protects the rights God gave us. If there are any unlawful limitations on your rights it is un-Constitutional.
This, right here, is the issue and may be why he tied gun rights to the Bible belt. Did God give us the right to bear arms? And if so, did He give us the right to own guns? The freedom of speech? Right to assembly? A free press? No, but this is how Americanism gets tied to Christianity.
If a man was found raping your wife would stop him with force? If you were being aggressively attacked on the street would you use your fist as a weapon? If a person was attacking your family or stranger in any way, do you have a God given right to bear an arm and use it against that person? Did God give us a right to defend ourselves? I think you would have to drive a real hard case to show me otherwise.
Guns make it easy to kill people... so do rocks.

Why is it Americanized Christianity to believe that I have God-given rights? Is it because Chinese Christianity would say that we have little to no rights?
Cool. Then give up your guns, as Christians, and carry rocks.
Why?
That way you have your "God-given" right to defend yourself without tying it to a "God-given" right to a gun in the Constitution. That way the nation can have a conversation about gun control without tying it to religion. Would you not have the means to defend and the right to defend even if guns were banned?
So you separate yourself from the Constitution because you believe in slavery? No, you stand against it because you agree with the Constitution as do I. For some reason you have this strange notion that agreeing with the Constitution automatically makes chimera Christian-Constitutionalists hybrids. So I can agree with lots of stuff in there until you disagree with it. Then I make guns my god.
I agree with free-speech. Is free-speech my god? I agree with a speedy trial. Is a speedy trial my god? I agree we can bear arms. Does that make bearing arms my god?
I don't know if they are your god--that is for you to consider. I do know that many tie Americanism to Christianity and that many do equate the right to bear arms with a God-given right: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-right- ... in-the-USA
Explain to me why the right to bear arms is not a God-given right.
Explain to me how it is.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Jester » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:43 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:30 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:51 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:26 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:05 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:48 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:35 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:37 am
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:09 am
The article also confuses rights according to the Constitution. It explains how rights are not created equal because of government oppression. This assumes that government gives rights. This is an error. God gives rights and the constitution protects the rights God gave us. If there are any unlawful limitations on your rights it is un-Constitutional.
This, right here, is the issue and may be why he tied gun rights to the Bible belt. Did God give us the right to bear arms? And if so, did He give us the right to own guns? The freedom of speech? Right to assembly? A free press? No, but this is how Americanism gets tied to Christianity.
If a man was found raping your wife would stop him with force? If you were being aggressively attacked on the street would you use your fist as a weapon? If a person was attacking your family or stranger in any way, do you have a God given right to bear an arm and use it against that person? Did God give us a right to defend ourselves? I think you would have to drive a real hard case to show me otherwise.
Guns make it easy to kill people... so do rocks.

Why is it Americanized Christianity to believe that I have God-given rights? Is it because Chinese Christianity would say that we have little to no rights?
Cool. Then give up your guns, as Christians, and carry rocks.
Why?
That way you have your "God-given" right to defend yourself without tying it to a "God-given" right to a gun in the Constitution. That way the nation can have a conversation about gun control without tying it to religion. Would you not have the means to defend and the right to defend even if guns were banned?
So you separate yourself from the Constitution because you believe in slavery? No, you stand against it because you agree with the Constitution as do I. For some reason you have this strange notion that agreeing with the Constitution automatically makes chimera Christian-Constitutionalists hybrids. So I can agree with lots of stuff in there until you disagree with it. Then I make guns my god.
I agree with free-speech. Is free-speech my god? I agree with a speedy trial. Is a speedy trial my god? I agree we can bear arms. Does that make bearing arms my god?
I don't know if they are your god--that is for you to consider. I do know that many tie Americanism to Christianity and that many do equate the right to bear arms with a God-given right: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-right- ... in-the-USA
Explain to me why the right to bear arms is not a God-given right.
Explain to me how it is.
I think you are a troll. You have avoided nearly all my questions and you have failed to pick apart any point of view I have put in front of you.
Is the enemy of my enemy my friend?
Can I not know that I have been saved by the God of all things and agree with the Constitution?
Why is it Americanized Christianity to believe that I have God-given rights? Is it because Chinese Christianity would say that we have little to no rights?
Did God give us a right to defend ourselves?

That last question. It goes hand in hand with do we have the right to life?
I smoke a cigar because the body is a temple and the temple needs incense. -Michael Knowles

Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by UncleBob » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm

Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:43 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:30 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:51 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:26 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:30 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:05 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:48 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:35 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:37 am
[quote=Jester post_id=1123207 time=1487869754 user_id=3011]
The article also confuses rights according to the Constitution. It explains how rights are not created equal because of government oppression. This assumes that government gives rights. This is an error. God gives rights and the constitution protects the rights God gave us. If there are any unlawful limitations on your rights it is un-Constitutional.
This, right here, is the issue and may be why he tied gun rights to the Bible belt. Did God give us the right to bear arms? And if so, did He give us the right to own guns? The freedom of speech? Right to assembly? A free press? No, but this is how Americanism gets tied to Christianity.
If a man was found raping your wife would stop him with force? If you were being aggressively attacked on the street would you use your fist as a weapon? If a person was attacking your family or stranger in any way, do you have a God given right to bear an arm and use it against that person? Did God give us a right to defend ourselves? I think you would have to drive a real hard case to show me otherwise.
Guns make it easy to kill people... so do rocks.

Why is it Americanized Christianity to believe that I have God-given rights? Is it because Chinese Christianity would say that we have little to no rights?
Cool. Then give up your guns, as Christians, and carry rocks.
Why?
That way you have your "God-given" right to defend yourself without tying it to a "God-given" right to a gun in the Constitution. That way the nation can have a conversation about gun control without tying it to religion. Would you not have the means to defend and the right to defend even if guns were banned?
So you separate yourself from the Constitution because you believe in slavery? No, you stand against it because you agree with the Constitution as do I. For some reason you have this strange notion that agreeing with the Constitution automatically makes chimera Christian-Constitutionalists hybrids. So I can agree with lots of stuff in there until you disagree with it. Then I make guns my god.
I agree with free-speech. Is free-speech my god? I agree with a speedy trial. Is a speedy trial my god? I agree we can bear arms. Does that make bearing arms my god?
I don't know if they are your god--that is for you to consider. I do know that many tie Americanism to Christianity and that many do equate the right to bear arms with a God-given right: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-right- ... in-the-USA
Explain to me why the right to bear arms is not a God-given right.
Explain to me how it is.
I think you are a troll. You have avoided nearly all my questions and you have failed to pick apart any point of view I have put in front of you.
Is the enemy of my enemy my friend?
Can I not know that I have been saved by the God of all things and agree with the Constitution?
Why is it Americanized Christianity to believe that I have God-given rights? Is it because Chinese Christianity would say that we have little to no rights?
Did God give us a right to defend ourselves?

That last question. It goes hand in hand with do we have the right to life?
[/quote]

You are free to think what you want. There is no evidence that "the right to bear arms" is God-given. I cannot disprove a negative. There is evidence that people believe it, though, and that some blend Americanism with Christianity. The constitution affords us certain rights, thank God, but these are not God-given. Well, unless He is capricious. Many Christians were slaves over the last 2 millennia--why did God not give them the right to be free? Where were their God-given guns?
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Jester » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:58 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm


You are free to think what you want. There is no evidence that "the right to bear arms" is God-given. I cannot disprove a negative. There is evidence that people believe it, though, and that some blend Americanism with Christianity. The constitution affords us certain rights, thank God, but these are not God-given. Well, unless He is capricious. Many Christians were slaves over the last 2 millennia--why did God not give them the right to be free? Where were their God-given guns?
Avoided again. I only want you to answer one.

Do we have the right to life?
I smoke a cigar because the body is a temple and the temple needs incense. -Michael Knowles

Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by UncleBob » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm

Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm


You are free to think what you want. There is no evidence that "the right to bear arms" is God-given. I cannot disprove a negative. There is evidence that people believe it, though, and that some blend Americanism with Christianity. The constitution affords us certain rights, thank God, but these are not God-given. Well, unless He is capricious. Many Christians were slaves over the last 2 millennia--why did God not give them the right to be free? Where were their God-given guns?
Avoided again. I only want you to answer one.

Do we have the right to life?
Nope. Ask the Caananites.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by tuttle » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:18 am

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm


You are free to think what you want. There is no evidence that "the right to bear arms" is God-given. I cannot disprove a negative. There is evidence that people believe it, though, and that some blend Americanism with Christianity. The constitution affords us certain rights, thank God, but these are not God-given. Well, unless He is capricious. Many Christians were slaves over the last 2 millennia--why did God not give them the right to be free? Where were their God-given guns?
Avoided again. I only want you to answer one.

Do we have the right to life?
Nope. Ask the Caananites.
It's tremendously hard not to read that response in the tone of a smartass teenager.

The Founders of the nation believed that we have a God-given right to life. They held it as a truth that was self evident, endowed by the Creator.
"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by UncleBob » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:21 pm

tuttle wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:18 am
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm


You are free to think what you want. There is no evidence that "the right to bear arms" is God-given. I cannot disprove a negative. There is evidence that people believe it, though, and that some blend Americanism with Christianity. The constitution affords us certain rights, thank God, but these are not God-given. Well, unless He is capricious. Many Christians were slaves over the last 2 millennia--why did God not give them the right to be free? Where were their God-given guns?
Avoided again. I only want you to answer one.

Do we have the right to life?
Nope. Ask the Caananites.
It's tremendously hard not to read that response in the tone of a smartass teenager.

The Founders of the nation believed that we have a God-given right to life. They held it as a truth that was self evident, endowed by the Creator.
Whew! Glad that is settled. I especially like how that worked out for the Native populations.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by hugodrax » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:02 pm

Oh, for cripes sake, Jester. You never seemed like a man that would use italic font.

You just made the list.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by tuttle » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:27 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:21 pm
tuttle wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:18 am
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm


You are free to think what you want. There is no evidence that "the right to bear arms" is God-given. I cannot disprove a negative. There is evidence that people believe it, though, and that some blend Americanism with Christianity. The constitution affords us certain rights, thank God, but these are not God-given. Well, unless He is capricious. Many Christians were slaves over the last 2 millennia--why did God not give them the right to be free? Where were their God-given guns?
Avoided again. I only want you to answer one.

Do we have the right to life?
Nope. Ask the Caananites.
It's tremendously hard not to read that response in the tone of a smartass teenager.

The Founders of the nation believed that we have a God-given right to life. They held it as a truth that was self evident, endowed by the Creator.
Whew! Glad that is settled. I especially like how that worked out for the Native populations.
So the abuse of a true thing automatically makes the true thing false? That what you're trying to pull here?
"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by UncleBob » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:28 pm

tuttle wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:27 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:21 pm
tuttle wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:18 am
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm
Jester wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:58 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:52 pm


You are free to think what you want. There is no evidence that "the right to bear arms" is God-given. I cannot disprove a negative. There is evidence that people believe it, though, and that some blend Americanism with Christianity. The constitution affords us certain rights, thank God, but these are not God-given. Well, unless He is capricious. Many Christians were slaves over the last 2 millennia--why did God not give them the right to be free? Where were their God-given guns?
Avoided again. I only want you to answer one.

Do we have the right to life?
Nope. Ask the Caananites.
It's tremendously hard not to read that response in the tone of a smartass teenager.

The Founders of the nation believed that we have a God-given right to life. They held it as a truth that was self evident, endowed by the Creator.
Whew! Glad that is settled. I especially like how that worked out for the Native populations.
So the abuse of a true thing automatically makes the true thing false? That what you're trying to pull here?
My points are these: (1) there is no God-given right to live (else God is not living up to our rights); (2) the Constitution gives a right to life in some ways; (3) blending Americanism with Christianity is dangerous (ie. article); and (4) I'm not even sure why Jester brought it up to begin with.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Jocose » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:24 pm

Glock = Perfection
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS



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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by hugodrax » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:39 pm

Jocose wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:24 pm
Glock = Perfection
Plastic guns for plastic minds.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Hovannes » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:53 pm


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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Hovannes » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:23 pm

Feb 27 is the feast of St. Gabriel of Our Lady of Sorrows, Gabriel Possenti, the un-official Patron Saint of Handgunners.

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:51 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:23 pm
Feb 27 is the feast of St. Gabriel of Our Lady of Sorrows, Gabriel Possenti, the un-official Patron Saint of Handgunners.
I dont know anythibt about this saint and will endeavor to correct that error. That said, i can tell you I prefer St. Hubertus, patron saint of better men than I am and a hunter who had his priorities put in order for him.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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