GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

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Thunktank
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:08 pm

rgcurrey wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:01 pm
JudgeRusty wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:34 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:56 pm
JudgeRusty wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:27 am
This pistol's hammer will not cock. I know enough not to practice gunsmithing without any knowledge or much skill.
Online research is slow as I cannot even precisely identify this gun. H&R Sportsman similar to a 999 but no model number. And serial number has no letter in it.
Any H&R specialists here?
Image
That Harrinton & Richardson is a fine piece of history, Your Honor, and I imagine it has even more family history.
Without having to do any actual gunsmithing, I think there is one thing you can do before turning it over to someone else.

It’s possible that it’s a matter of corrosion having seized the hammer and/or the action.
I’ve used Kroil penetrating oil to great effect on corroded guns.

Image

If the hammer cocks after a few days of sitting with s few drops placed in the spaces between hammersnd frame, you can use more Kroil to free up the grip screws, remove them and repeat the process on corroded parts in the action.

Finally, you can probably free up and wipe off a fair amount of the corrosion on the frame and barrel by letting it sit with a wipe of Kroil for a few days.

If the hammer is stuck because of a broken part, you might be able to better assess the situation after removing the grips.
the action is free, despite the terrible appearance, the gun is quite tight and almost usable. I misspoke--the hammer has tension from the spring, which appears unbroken when viewed with the grips removed; the hammer moves but does not catch/stop in a cocked or half cocked position.

By the way, this gun says H&R Sportsman on the side and may not have a letter with the serial number if it was produced prior to 1940. This was in Beth's father's tool shed when we found it.
Wish someone in my family had a tool shed like that.
Cool find. Earlier this year when my FIL passed away he had a Sears 22 rimfire that looked pitted like that. The bore was nice and bright though!
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“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:25 pm

JudgeRusty wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:34 pm
the action is free, despite the terrible appearance, the gun is quite tight and almost usable. I misspoke--the hammer has tension from the spring, which appears unbroken when viewed with the grips removed; the hammer moves but does not catch/stop in a cocked or half cocked position.

By the way, this gun says H&R Sportsman on the side and may not have a letter with the serial number if it was produced prior to 1940. This was in Beth's father's tool shed when we found it.
Sorry I misinterpreted.
Perhaps it had been placed where you found it because it was malfunctioning years ago.

Nothing I suggested was helpful.
It does sound like an issue a competent gunsmith might best address.
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:35 pm

I’ve had that Anschutz .22LR sporter for a pretty long time, and for almost as long as I’ve had it I’ve been hoping to find another used one in .22 mag.

Every now and then one turns up, but the few I’ve located have been very far away. I gave up on that quest.

But I have a birthday with a big round zero coming up, and in recent decades I’ve celebrated those birthdays by buy buying a new rifle. So I started looking. My first choice would have been a new 64 action Anschutz sporter. They now cost over $1,000, if you can find one in stock.

Nope.

Second choice was a CZ American, a very nice walnut stocked sporter. The current version is the 455. Those, too, have been a little hard to find in stock, but today, I learned that my favorite local gunshop’s distributer has one. I had them order it.

Image

My 22LR has a Weaver Classic 4X scope on it. For the .22 mag. I ordered a Weaver Classic 2.5-7X.

Image

I’ve never owned a CZ Rimfire rifle, but I’ve heard nothing but good thing about them.
Should have the package in hand, assembled and ready for the range sometime next week!

Photos when they arrive.
I’m pretty tickled.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by rgcurrey » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:05 pm

This sounds like quite the nice set up.
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Goose55 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:18 pm

Only makes sense. I there will be those who carry armaments into these places, that there should also be those who carry arms to defend against them
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:35 pm
I’ve had that Anschutz .22LR sporter for a pretty long time, and for almost as long as I’ve had it I’ve been hoping to find another used one in .22 mag.

Every now and then one turns up, but the few I’ve located have been very far away. I gave up on that quest.

But I have a birthday with a big round zero coming up, and in recent decades I’ve celebrated those birthdays by buy buying a new rifle. So I started looking. My first choice would have been a new 64 action Anschutz sporter. They now cost over $1,000, if you can find one in stock.

Nope.

Second choice was a CZ American, a very nice walnut stocked sporter. The current version is the 455. Those, too, have been a little hard to find in stock, but today, I learned that my favorite local gunshop’s distributer has one. I had them order it.

Image

My 22LR has a Weaver Classic 4X scope on it. For the .22 mag. I ordered a Weaver Classic 2.5-7X.

Image

I’ve never owned a CZ Rimfire rifle, but I’ve heard nothing but good thing about them.
Should have the package in hand, assembled and ready for the range sometime next week!

Photos when they arrive.
I’m pretty tickled.
Looks good to me! I’ve shot a cz 22 and found it to be a great gun.

I will say that my 22 magnum has a 2-7x scope on it. It’s pretty much always on 4x. Those Weaver Classics look good on a gun like that.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Hovannes » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:52 am

I miss Hogleg
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Hovannes » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:37 am

I went in for my new CCW.
I've got the interview scheduled for early August.
The situational awareness training part of the class was well worth taking in any event.
The interactive computer simulation was incredibly realistic!
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:46 pm

My CZ arrived at the gun shop on Friday, but we had houseguests over the weekend so I just got around to putting it all together, cleaning and lubing it, honing the sear and setting the trigger.

Image

Image

CZ American 455 .22 mag, Weaver RV7 2.5-7X 28mm scope, Weaver Grand Slam steel rings, 1" leather sling.

This is the factory test target:

Image

The 5 shot group measures out at around .75" @ 50m, not particularly impressive. If this were to hold at 100yds, this would be a 1.5 MOA gun. I expected better.

But I am hoping the factory tech shot their standard round through the gun, and it was likely a 40g ~1800 fps lead solid. I've got some standard vel.40g FMJs and JHPs, and the round I'm hoping she'll like best, the 2200 fps Hornady 30g V-Max to try.

I hope the gun will do at least MOA with some ammo. I'd prefer .5 to .75, but I'm not optimistic. My other rifles have spoiled me (that goes for the trigger as well), but all of this can be worked out if necessary.

Hope to get to the range in the next day or two.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:57 am

Sorry to hear that you aren’t impressed with it, yet.

My .02 cents and opinions you’re probably aware of already.

I suspect you can eek out a bit more accuracy using the right ammunition that it likes. A bedding job will help too. There seems to be no rhyme or reason why mine likes the particular ammunition that it does. The most accurate out of mine is the 28 gr. lead free from Winchester. I didn’t expect that. I tried many different ones over the years. But it’s not my favorite round, the plain old 40 grain Winchester hp is.

But here’s the thing, and mind you, I’m a big fan of the 22 WMR. I don’t know what you’re plannning to do with yours, but for the uses I’ve had with mine. it’s works great with the same sort of accuracy yours has now. Head shots on small game at short range with the umph for the bigger stuff out to over 100 yards where the 22 rimfire really struggles. From the typical field positions while shooting I probably won’t do better if the rifle was more accurate anyway.

Also, the 22 WMR has a habit to gain relative accuracy the harder the shots get. You didn’t get that perfect headshot on the cottontail? You kill it anyway on the spot! The wind is blowing? Much less a problem than it would be with a 22 rimfire or a 17 HMR. And that nasty coyote out there? No problem, it will get the job done.

:)

It looks like a great rifle and set up to me!
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:54 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:57 am
Sorry to hear that you aren’t impressed with it, yet.

My .02 cents and opinions you’re probably aware of already.

I suspect you can eek out a bit more accuracy using the right ammunition that it likes. A bedding job will help too. There seems to be no rhyme or reason why mine likes the particular ammunition that it does. The most accurate out of mine is the 28 gr. lead free from Winchester. I didn’t expect that. I tried many different ones over the years. But it’s not my favorite round, the plain old 40 grain Winchester hp is.

But here’s the thing, and mind you, I’m a big fan of the 22 WMR. I don’t know what you’re plannning to do with yours, but for the uses I’ve had with mine. it’s works great with the same sort of accuracy yours has now. Head shots on small game at short range with the umph for the bigger stuff out to over 100 yards where the 22 rimfire really struggles. From the typical field positions while shooting I probably won’t do better if the rifle was more accurate anyway.

Also, the 22 WMR has a habit to gain relative accuracy the harder the shots get. You didn’t get that perfect headshot on the cottontail? You kill it anyway on the spot! The wind is blowing? Much less a problem than it would be with a 22 rimfire or a 17 HMR. And that nasty coyote out there? No problem, it will get the job done.

:)

It looks like a great rifle and set up to me!
I agree with everything you've said, Thunk.

Half the fun is working on a rimfire, trying ammo, whatever, until it's where you want it.
I was able to get to the range this morning before it got too hot and I was pleased.

Of course, I forgot to throw the ammo I most hope to hunt with - Hornady 30 gr. V-Max - into my range bag; so, I ended up putting 50 rounds of 40 gr. CCI Maxi-Mag FMJ through the barrel. Tweaked the barrel mounting and action screws, got three shot groups down to a little less than 1/2" at 50m. It was a joy to shoot and I'm plenty happy.

The factory test target and a typical 3-shot group from today at 50m:

Image

When I got home I re-torqued the screws with a dab of blue LockTite and cleaned the barrel one more time.
Another box to foul the barrel, work things in a little more and sight it in with the Hornadys and I imagine she'll be way more than okay.

I expect the rifle will shoot the Hornadys a little better. On Rimfire Central, most .22 mag 455 shooters report that their guns shoot best with it.
Looks like I'll have to make another trip out to the range tomorrow morning, darn it. And Friday is shotguns and clay targets day! This semi-retirement thing is working out okay.

:pipe2:
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The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:32 pm

Oh good! I’m glad to see you happy with it. I know what buyers remorse feels like. :D
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:49 pm

I had buyers remorse over a gun recently. Bought a used Ruger Hawkeye a couple of years ago, it shot horribly. Did some research and discovered this is common problem with them as they age because the action screw loosens up. I tightened it up, took it to the range and it shot very well. I can’t help but wonder if the the person who had it, got rid of it because he/she thought it lost accuracy.

Lever actions often need some adjustment to, especially around the barrel bands.
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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:54 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:49 pm
I had buyers remorse over a gun recently. Bought a used Ruger Hawkeye a couple of years ago, it shot horribly. Did some research and discovered this is common problem with them as they age because the action screw loosens up. I tightened it up, took it to the range and it shot very well. I can’t help but wonder if the the person who had it, got rid of it because he/she thought it lost accuracy.

Lever actions often need some adjustment to, especially around the barrel bands.
How fortunate for you if that was the case with the Ruger.
I have a Hawkeye in .270 that I would never sell.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by rgcurrey » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:27 pm

I always wanted a Ruger #1. Prices these days pretty much means I will always want one too.
Well I got a job and tried to put my money away
But I got debts that no honest man can pay - B. Springsteen

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound[a] teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. - 2 Tim 4:3-4

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:45 am

rgcurrey wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:27 pm
I always wanted a Ruger #1. Prices these days pretty much means I will always want one too.
Me too.
Beautiful rifles.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:30 pm

Went to the range today to sight-in my CZ with 30 gr. V-Max. Also took my Annie .22 LR to sight it back in with 38 gr. Hollow points for hunting after having it set up for 40 gr. target rounds.

I had targets at 50, 75 and 100 yds. and was able to check critical hold-under when sighted in at 100 yds., but with this round on anything but a small squirrel all of those distances will be well within mpbr. Should easily be good out to 125 with a little holdover after that, but this range runs out at about 110 yds. at the berm.

In the process, I rediscovered the significant difference between the CZ trigger (which is okay) and the Anschutz trigger which is fantastic.

I had placed a bunch of clay targets all over the berm behind the 100 yd. target stands at 102-110 yds. With the 4X scope on the Annie, I could quickly and easily move around and break the clays, and then some of their pieces, on the berm (front rest, no rear rest). The crosshairs on the scope are set for 50 yds., and the holdover at 110 yds. nicely coincides with the tip of the point on the lower, wider post on the duplex reticle.

I couldn’t do that consistently with the CZ sighted-in at 100 yds.

The difference, more than anything else at this point, is the quality of the trigger. So . . .
I’ve ordered a Yo Dave trigger kit for the CZ. The kit includes a lighter spring and shims for the sear pivot pin to reduce creep.

If I feel the need after the trigger kit I’ll bed the action into the stock. The barrel is already free-floated from the factory.

I needed a gun project.
I’m having fun.

And this will, of course require many trips to the range.

:pipe3:
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:00 pm

Image

:thumbsup:
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:27 pm

We're getting there . . .

Shot clays early this morning with friends, then went over to the rifle side and checked to see how the CZ was doing after a little more work.
The trigger kit hasn't arrived yet, but in the interim I went to the hardware store and picked up an ACE #144 compression spring to replace the factory trigger spring and lighten the pull down to around #2. I figure the main problem with the grouping at this point was the trigger

I also polished then re-blued what was a very slightly out of round crown.

5 shots at 50 yards:

Image

The trigger is lighter now, but it still has some creep. When the trigger kit gets here I'll try some shims on the sear.
After that, I think I'll call it good. This is plenty good for a hunting rifle. I just don't like poor triggers. And I love to tinker with rifles.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

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Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:55 am

Well dang Durango, I should send a couple of mine to you to tinker with!
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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