GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Where Fellowship and Camaraderie lives: that place where the CPS membership values fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community
Post Reply
User avatar
joegoat
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Southwest Ohio

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by joegoat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:03 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:37 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:55 pm
Congrats! I'm not a fan of the fancy new muzzle loaders, but they are nearly as reliable as a center fire gun now. Dial it in good. That first shot still has to count just as it did hundreds of years ago.
I’ve had the joys of hunting Pennsylvania’s flintlock season. If I still lived there, or anywhere near there I still would. I would have invested in handmade flintlock long rifle by now. I have repro flintlock and a little bit of fffg Goex.

I now live in one of the most unfriendly black powder states. We are allowed to store but 1 LB of real black powder, and hunters must use lead free ammunition. I can’t even find real black powder anymore. I would have to buy it in bulk and deal with hazmat costs.

I’m seriously looking at inlines right now. It’s one way I can avoid the hunting crowds and hunt later in the season when it cools off more. Also, I’ve spend years mulling over hunting in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. Draw odds may be acceptable in some of those areas for black powder. From what I’ve seen, modern muzzleloaders with 209 primers, scopes, Triple Seven and Blackhorn 209, sabots and BOR lock bullets are pretty much like hunting and shooting with a single shot 45-70. They’re also keeping the effective range in my comfort zone as a hunter who doesn’t want to snipe at deer or elk at hundreds of yards.

I’m not having much luck finding the center fire rifle I wanted for Son2. There’s only a few in the entire country with the wrong barrel type. Plus, maybe I should just wait a year and get him a left hand bolt action that will serve him for years to come. This year is all messed up. Maybe I’ll just mail order a nice in-line to carry along while I help the boys fill their tags. When they can’t make it out with me, I’ll take one of my bolts back from them for the trip.
Black MZ is an economical BP substitute from Sportsmans Warehouse, which I keep on hand for my cap and ball revolver.
That stuff was cheaper than pyrodex when it first came out. That is no longer the case in my area. I'll check online pricing. The "virtually non corrosive" attracted me. Pyrodex sticks like glue and eats a gun right up.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

"A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Hovannes
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Posts: 27631
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Hovannes » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:57 pm

joegoat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:03 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:37 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:55 pm
Congrats! I'm not a fan of the fancy new muzzle loaders, but they are nearly as reliable as a center fire gun now. Dial it in good. That first shot still has to count just as it did hundreds of years ago.
I’ve had the joys of hunting Pennsylvania’s flintlock season. If I still lived there, or anywhere near there I still would. I would have invested in handmade flintlock long rifle by now. I have repro flintlock and a little bit of fffg Goex.

I now live in one of the most unfriendly black powder states. We are allowed to store but 1 LB of real black powder, and hunters must use lead free ammunition. I can’t even find real black powder anymore. I would have to buy it in bulk and deal with hazmat costs.

I’m seriously looking at inlines right now. It’s one way I can avoid the hunting crowds and hunt later in the season when it cools off more. Also, I’ve spend years mulling over hunting in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. Draw odds may be acceptable in some of those areas for black powder. From what I’ve seen, modern muzzleloaders with 209 primers, scopes, Triple Seven and Blackhorn 209, sabots and BOR lock bullets are pretty much like hunting and shooting with a single shot 45-70. They’re also keeping the effective range in my comfort zone as a hunter who doesn’t want to snipe at deer or elk at hundreds of yards.

I’m not having much luck finding the center fire rifle I wanted for Son2. There’s only a few in the entire country with the wrong barrel type. Plus, maybe I should just wait a year and get him a left hand bolt action that will serve him for years to come. This year is all messed up. Maybe I’ll just mail order a nice in-line to carry along while I help the boys fill their tags. When they can’t make it out with me, I’ll take one of my bolts back from them for the trip.
Black MZ is an economical BP substitute from Sportsmans Warehouse, which I keep on hand for my cap and ball revolver.
That stuff was cheaper than pyrodex when it first came out. That is no longer the case in my area. I'll check online pricing. The "virtually non corrosive" attracted me. Pyrodex sticks like glue and eats a gun right up.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
$10 or $12 a pound last time I checked a year ago.
Not Holy Black of course, but at least it's available.
"Praise be to Mary, her child and all those with them in Paradise."---Paulus Kal

User avatar
Hovannes
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Posts: 27631
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Hovannes » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:57 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:33 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:46 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:37 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:55 pm
Congrats! I'm not a fan of the fancy new muzzle loaders, but they are nearly as reliable as a center fire gun now. Dial it in good. That first shot still has to count just as it did hundreds of years ago.
I’ve had the joys of hunting Pennsylvania’s flintlock season. If I still lived there, or anywhere near there I still would. I would have invested in handmade flintlock long rifle by now. I have repro flintlock and a little bit of fffg Goex.

I now live in one of the most unfriendly black powder states. We are allowed to store but 1 LB of real black powder, and hunters must use lead free ammunition. I can’t even find real black powder anymore. I would have to buy it in bulk and deal with hazmat costs.

I’m seriously looking at inlines right now. It’s one way I can avoid the hunting crowds and hunt later in the season when it cools off more. Also, I’ve spend years mulling over hunting in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. Draw odds may be acceptable in some of those areas for black powder. From what I’ve seen, modern muzzleloaders with 209 primers, scopes, Triple Seven and Blackhorn 209, sabots and BOR lock bullets are pretty much like hunting and shooting with a single shot 45-70. They’re also keeping the effective range in my comfort zone as a hunter who doesn’t want to snipe at deer or elk at hundreds of yards.

I’m not having much luck finding the center fire rifle I wanted for Son2. There’s only a few in the entire country with the wrong barrel type. Plus, maybe I should just wait a year and get him a left hand bolt action that will serve him for years to come. This year is all messed up. Maybe I’ll just mail order a nice in-line to carry along while I help the boys fill their tags. When they can’t make it out with me, I’ll take one of my bolts back from them for the trip.
Black MZ is an economical BP substitute from Sportsmans Warehouse, which I keep on hand for my cap and ball revolver.
Didn't realize Hov caught a felony.
:lol:
"Praise be to Mary, her child and all those with them in Paradise."---Paulus Kal

User avatar
Thunktank
Needs to smoke more
Needs to smoke more
Posts: 23131
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: 471 Km from the London Bridge

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:49 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:57 pm
joegoat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:03 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:37 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:55 pm
Congrats! I'm not a fan of the fancy new muzzle loaders, but they are nearly as reliable as a center fire gun now. Dial it in good. That first shot still has to count just as it did hundreds of years ago.
I’ve had the joys of hunting Pennsylvania’s flintlock season. If I still lived there, or anywhere near there I still would. I would have invested in handmade flintlock long rifle by now. I have repro flintlock and a little bit of fffg Goex.

I now live in one of the most unfriendly black powder states. We are allowed to store but 1 LB of real black powder, and hunters must use lead free ammunition. I can’t even find real black powder anymore. I would have to buy it in bulk and deal with hazmat costs.

I’m seriously looking at inlines right now. It’s one way I can avoid the hunting crowds and hunt later in the season when it cools off more. Also, I’ve spend years mulling over hunting in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. Draw odds may be acceptable in some of those areas for black powder. From what I’ve seen, modern muzzleloaders with 209 primers, scopes, Triple Seven and Blackhorn 209, sabots and BOR lock bullets are pretty much like hunting and shooting with a single shot 45-70. They’re also keeping the effective range in my comfort zone as a hunter who doesn’t want to snipe at deer or elk at hundreds of yards.

I’m not having much luck finding the center fire rifle I wanted for Son2. There’s only a few in the entire country with the wrong barrel type. Plus, maybe I should just wait a year and get him a left hand bolt action that will serve him for years to come. This year is all messed up. Maybe I’ll just mail order a nice in-line to carry along while I help the boys fill their tags. When they can’t make it out with me, I’ll take one of my bolts back from them for the trip.
Black MZ is an economical BP substitute from Sportsmans Warehouse, which I keep on hand for my cap and ball revolver.
That stuff was cheaper than pyrodex when it first came out. That is no longer the case in my area. I'll check online pricing. The "virtually non corrosive" attracted me. Pyrodex sticks like glue and eats a gun right up.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
$10 or $12 a pound last time I checked a year ago.
Not Holy Black of course, but at least it's available.
I think Black MZ is discontinued by Alliant. Triple Seven and Pyrodex RS both have their strong points. I got my flintlock to work with Pyrodex, using real BP in the pan. Not sure I would trust it with a big 4x4 mule deer in my sights though. More testing needed. I do have a partial can of fffg Goex left to test my flintlock barrel one more time. I ran a string of mini led lights down the barrel this morning to see if the barrel was still bright. It is. I really had to scrub the heck out of it last year to remove the frosting that took hold starting 20 years ago when I left for the service. I used to be able to shoot 3 inch groups at 80 yards with it back in the day. I have an entire box of .495 round balls and .015 patches ready to go. I hope to get out with boys in the next few days to shoot rimfires and that old flintlock and see how she does now.

Anyway, as I understand it, the traditionalists belong to black powder clubs that pool funds to get real BP. Flintlocks really do need it. I’m strongly considering the possibility of building a long rifle from Track of the Wolf or Jim Chambers. I’m redoing my garage for projects like that as I post this. Though I may start with an easier build like a cap lock Lyman Great Plains rifle which is fairly authentic for the west coast actually, post Mountainmen era.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

No complaining + gratefulness= happiness

User avatar
Hovannes
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Posts: 27631
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:03 pm

I'm Sad to hear Alliant discontinued Black MZ! I'll have to check out my local Sportsman's Warehouse to see if any is left on the shelf.
My kindergarten teacher was a descendant of the Hawken brothers.
"Praise be to Mary, her child and all those with them in Paradise."---Paulus Kal

User avatar
Thunktank
Needs to smoke more
Needs to smoke more
Posts: 23131
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: 471 Km from the London Bridge

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:53 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:03 pm
I'm Sad to hear Alliant discontinued Black MZ! I'll have to check out my local Sportsman's Warehouse to see if any is left on the shelf.
My kindergarten teacher was a descendant of the Hawken brothers.
I think I saw they had some left the other day. I never even heard of it until then. I have some Triple Seven that I used with my cap n ball once. Worked well as I recall and it didn’t gum up the action as quickly as black powder. Clean up was easier than anything else I ever tried. I think I would work that option with percussions as a BP substitute.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

No complaining + gratefulness= happiness

User avatar
joegoat
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Southwest Ohio

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by joegoat » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:08 am

Thunktank wrote:
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:57 pm
joegoat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:03 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:37 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:55 pm
Congrats! I'm not a fan of the fancy new muzzle loaders, but they are nearly as reliable as a center fire gun now. Dial it in good. That first shot still has to count just as it did hundreds of years ago.
I’ve had the joys of hunting Pennsylvania’s flintlock season. If I still lived there, or anywhere near there I still would. I would have invested in handmade flintlock long rifle by now. I have repro flintlock and a little bit of fffg Goex.

I now live in one of the most unfriendly black powder states. We are allowed to store but 1 LB of real black powder, and hunters must use lead free ammunition. I can’t even find real black powder anymore. I would have to buy it in bulk and deal with hazmat costs.

I’m seriously looking at inlines right now. It’s one way I can avoid the hunting crowds and hunt later in the season when it cools off more. Also, I’ve spend years mulling over hunting in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. Draw odds may be acceptable in some of those areas for black powder. From what I’ve seen, modern muzzleloaders with 209 primers, scopes, Triple Seven and Blackhorn 209, sabots and BOR lock bullets are pretty much like hunting and shooting with a single shot 45-70. They’re also keeping the effective range in my comfort zone as a hunter who doesn’t want to snipe at deer or elk at hundreds of yards.

I’m not having much luck finding the center fire rifle I wanted for Son2. There’s only a few in the entire country with the wrong barrel type. Plus, maybe I should just wait a year and get him a left hand bolt action that will serve him for years to come. This year is all messed up. Maybe I’ll just mail order a nice in-line to carry along while I help the boys fill their tags. When they can’t make it out with me, I’ll take one of my bolts back from them for the trip.
Black MZ is an economical BP substitute from Sportsmans Warehouse, which I keep on hand for my cap and ball revolver.
That stuff was cheaper than pyrodex when it first came out. That is no longer the case in my area. I'll check online pricing. The "virtually non corrosive" attracted me. Pyrodex sticks like glue and eats a gun right up.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
$10 or $12 a pound last time I checked a year ago.
Not Holy Black of course, but at least it's available.
I think Black MZ is discontinued by Alliant. Triple Seven and Pyrodex RS both have their strong points. I got my flintlock to work with Pyrodex, using real BP in the pan. Not sure I would trust it with a big 4x4 mule deer in my sights though. More testing needed. I do have a partial can of fffg Goex left to test my flintlock barrel one more time. I ran a string of mini led lights down the barrel this morning to see if the barrel was still bright. It is. I really had to scrub the heck out of it last year to remove the frosting that took hold starting 20 years ago when I left for the service. I used to be able to shoot 3 inch groups at 80 yards with it back in the day. I have an entire box of .495 round balls and .015 patches ready to go. I hope to get out with boys in the next few days to shoot rimfires and that old flintlock and see how she does now.

Anyway, as I understand it, the traditionalists belong to black powder clubs that pool funds to get real BP. Flintlocks really do need it. I’m strongly considering the possibility of building a long rifle from Track of the Wolf or Jim Chambers. I’m redoing my garage for projects like that as I post this. Though I may start with an easier build like a cap lock Lyman Great Plains rifle which is fairly authentic for the west coast actually, post Mountainmen era.
I've never built a kit from these suppliers. I have built traditions and I'm here to say, you get what you pay for. Their traditional side lock kits are basic. There is little room for artistic liberty aside from finish options. Their musket kits are better though. As far as I can tell, they buy components from other Italian manufacturers and offer them in kit form. I built an 1852 smoothbore from them. Traditions are great shooters though. I can place every patched round ball well within a paper plate at 100 yards with the stock iron sights.
When you choose your kit, know what you plan to shoot with it. Patched round ball is my preference. Round balls need a slow rifling like a 1:60. 1:48 is very common and is supposed to handle conical bullets and round ball, but your powder charge is limited with round ball. The faster the ball is traveling in a fast rifle twist the more likely it is to strip past the rifling. I use 60 grains of Pyrodex in my percussion Kentucky long rifle and at 100 yards it shoots to point of aim. 100 yards is a sweet spot in my opinion.
I use pillow ticking as patch material and lube it with a home made beef tallow (rendered at home) and bees wax mixture.
I want to build one of Traditions .32 Crockett kits for a squirrel gun. Lyman also seems to be one of the only ones offer .54 kits. I may do a rifle and pistol combo in .54 someday. Kit guns are great fun, require minimal tools, and give you a great sense of pride at the range.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

"A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis

User avatar
adauria
Don't Need No Fancy Title
Don't Need No Fancy Title
Posts: 3624
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Contact:

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by adauria » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:23 am

For those interested (which I imagine is no one), my wife and I just tried a bunch of sub-compact 9mm pistols for her carry gun, and to my surprised we unanimously settled on and purchased the Sig Sauer P365. It's an impressive little gun! Shoots and handles great, and can hold 10+1, which is really impressive for its tiny little size.

-Andrew

User avatar
joegoat
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Southwest Ohio

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by joegoat » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:43 am

adauria wrote:For those interested (which I imagine is no one), my wife and I just tried a bunch of sub-compact 9mm pistols for her carry gun, and to my surprised we unanimously settled on and purchased the Sig Sauer P365. It's an impressive little gun! Shoots and handles great, and can hold 10+1, which is really impressive for its tiny little size.

-Andrew
Congrats! They are nice little guns


Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

"A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Thunktank
Needs to smoke more
Needs to smoke more
Posts: 23131
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: 471 Km from the London Bridge

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:47 am

adauria wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:23 am
For those interested (which I imagine is no one), my wife and I just tried a bunch of sub-compact 9mm pistols for her carry gun, and to my surprised we unanimously settled on and purchased the Sig Sauer P365. It's an impressive little gun! Shoots and handles great, and can hold 10+1, which is really impressive for its tiny little size.

-Andrew
Interesting. :D
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

No complaining + gratefulness= happiness

User avatar
Thunktank
Needs to smoke more
Needs to smoke more
Posts: 23131
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: 471 Km from the London Bridge

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:22 pm

joegoat wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:08 am
Thunktank wrote:
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:57 pm
joegoat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:03 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:37 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:55 pm
Congrats! I'm not a fan of the fancy new muzzle loaders, but they are nearly as reliable as a center fire gun now. Dial it in good. That first shot still has to count just as it did hundreds of years ago.
I’ve had the joys of hunting Pennsylvania’s flintlock season. If I still lived there, or anywhere near there I still would. I would have invested in handmade flintlock long rifle by now. I have repro flintlock and a little bit of fffg Goex.

I now live in one of the most unfriendly black powder states. We are allowed to store but 1 LB of real black powder, and hunters must use lead free ammunition. I can’t even find real black powder anymore. I would have to buy it in bulk and deal with hazmat costs.

I’m seriously looking at inlines right now. It’s one way I can avoid the hunting crowds and hunt later in the season when it cools off more. Also, I’ve spend years mulling over hunting in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. Draw odds may be acceptable in some of those areas for black powder. From what I’ve seen, modern muzzleloaders with 209 primers, scopes, Triple Seven and Blackhorn 209, sabots and BOR lock bullets are pretty much like hunting and shooting with a single shot 45-70. They’re also keeping the effective range in my comfort zone as a hunter who doesn’t want to snipe at deer or elk at hundreds of yards.

I’m not having much luck finding the center fire rifle I wanted for Son2. There’s only a few in the entire country with the wrong barrel type. Plus, maybe I should just wait a year and get him a left hand bolt action that will serve him for years to come. This year is all messed up. Maybe I’ll just mail order a nice in-line to carry along while I help the boys fill their tags. When they can’t make it out with me, I’ll take one of my bolts back from them for the trip.
Black MZ is an economical BP substitute from Sportsmans Warehouse, which I keep on hand for my cap and ball revolver.
That stuff was cheaper than pyrodex when it first came out. That is no longer the case in my area. I'll check online pricing. The "virtually non corrosive" attracted me. Pyrodex sticks like glue and eats a gun right up.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
$10 or $12 a pound last time I checked a year ago.
Not Holy Black of course, but at least it's available.
I think Black MZ is discontinued by Alliant. Triple Seven and Pyrodex RS both have their strong points. I got my flintlock to work with Pyrodex, using real BP in the pan. Not sure I would trust it with a big 4x4 mule deer in my sights though. More testing needed. I do have a partial can of fffg Goex left to test my flintlock barrel one more time. I ran a string of mini led lights down the barrel this morning to see if the barrel was still bright. It is. I really had to scrub the heck out of it last year to remove the frosting that took hold starting 20 years ago when I left for the service. I used to be able to shoot 3 inch groups at 80 yards with it back in the day. I have an entire box of .495 round balls and .015 patches ready to go. I hope to get out with boys in the next few days to shoot rimfires and that old flintlock and see how she does now.

Anyway, as I understand it, the traditionalists belong to black powder clubs that pool funds to get real BP. Flintlocks really do need it. I’m strongly considering the possibility of building a long rifle from Track of the Wolf or Jim Chambers. I’m redoing my garage for projects like that as I post this. Though I may start with an easier build like a cap lock Lyman Great Plains rifle which is fairly authentic for the west coast actually, post Mountainmen era.
I've never built a kit from these suppliers. I have built traditions and I'm here to say, you get what you pay for. Their traditional side lock kits are basic. There is little room for artistic liberty aside from finish options. Their musket kits are better though. As far as I can tell, they buy components from other Italian manufacturers and offer them in kit form. I built an 1852 smoothbore from them. Traditions are great shooters though. I can place every patched round ball well within a paper plate at 100 yards with the stock iron sights.
When you choose your kit, know what you plan to shoot with it. Patched round ball is my preference. Round balls need a slow rifling like a 1:60. 1:48 is very common and is supposed to handle conical bullets and round ball, but your powder charge is limited with round ball. The faster the ball is traveling in a fast rifle twist the more likely it is to strip past the rifling. I use 60 grains of Pyrodex in my percussion Kentucky long rifle and at 100 yards it shoots to point of aim. 100 yards is a sweet spot in my opinion.
I use pillow ticking as patch material and lube it with a home made beef tallow (rendered at home) and bees wax mixture.
I want to build one of Traditions .32 Crockett kits for a squirrel gun. Lyman also seems to be one of the only ones offer .54 kits. I may do a rifle and pistol combo in .54 someday. Kit guns are great fun, require minimal tools, and give you a great sense of pride at the range.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
My first priority is that my guns serve a hunting purpose, historical accuracy does interest me however secondarily. Modern in lines seem more like single shot 45-70s these days. I was fortunate enough to grow up in Pennsylvania among a few diehard flintlock hunters. Pennsylvania is the only state with a traditional flintlock only deer season, and when I was teenager they still required round ball too. Some guys had very nice custom long rifles, I loved those rifles but at the time couldn’t afford one. Others had Lyman and TC “Hawken” style rifles. My dad bought a Lyman Trade rifle, with the 1:48 inch twist. He was an exceptional shot with a centerfire, but he didn’t cozy up the the temperamental needs of a flintlock. After a few years he gave the rifle to me when I was 17 when I showed him I could hit better with it than he could.

The original Hawkens rifles as I understand it were generally around 1:48 too, albeit they had different lands and grooves. Indeed, the powder charge is limited, but 90 grains of FFG gave acceptable hunting accuracy. The round ball hunters I knew never had issues with the round ball killing deer. It kills more like an arrow than a high powered modern rifle. Very often the deer wouldn’t show obvious signs of being hit only to topple over a few steps later. For deer, the 50 and 54 were equally effective according to these guys.

Out here in CA, if I were to hunt with traditional muzzleloaders I would need to find a lead free bullet. Ballistic Products does provide a lead free round ball that is very hard and a bit lighter than lead, though despite that, they penetrate deeper than lead at normal hunting ranges. If my flintlock can still shoot lead, I may experiment with them and some sabots. If I can see these lead free round balls work well, I may give a self made custom rifle a try and/or a slow twist Lyman Great Plains rifle which, for a factory gun kit can be made to look and shoot very close to the originals which were prevalent in my current west coast region at the time (1840s - 1860s).
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

No complaining + gratefulness= happiness

User avatar
Stanley76
Master of Swords
Master of Swords
Posts: 2670
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:50 pm
Location: Pungo River NC

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Stanley76 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:33 pm

Recently I decided to upgrade my AR. It's a Bushmaster Patrol Carbine. The rebuild included a new upper, new stock assembly, and a titanium buffer, larger pistol grip, a more ergonomic selector lever, match trigger, extended handguard and new iron sights. I got my buddy who is a gunsmith to do the work and traded him the old upper for doing the work so I only had to buy the parts.

I picked it up last Saturday (Independence Day) and went to the range to zero in the sights and the optic (Aimpoint Comp M2). Liked it. Once I got it dialed in I did some dynamic movement drills, changing positions, shooting from standing, kneeling, ect., mag changes and transitioning from carbine to handgun. I had a great day. I plan to do more movement, mag change and transition drills. The handgun I used Sat. was a Glock 19 because that is the pistol that I carry 90% of the time. Here are a few pictures of the upgrade.

Image

Image
"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

User avatar
durangopipe
The Goat Fairy
The Goat Fairy
Posts: 8476
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: Southwest Colorado

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:44 pm

Stanley76 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:33 pm
Recently I decided to upgrade my AR. It's a Bushmaster Patrol Carbine. The rebuild included a new upper, new stock assembly, and a titanium buffer, larger pistol grip, a more ergonomic selector lever, match trigger, extended handguard and new iron sights. I got my buddy who is a gunsmith to do the work and traded him the old upper for doing the work so I only had to buy the parts.

I picked it up last Saturday (Independence Day) and went to the range to zero in the sights and the optic (Aimpoint Comp M2). Liked it. Once I got it dialed in I did some dynamic movement drills, changing positions, shooting from standing, kneeling, ect., mag changes and transitioning from carbine to handgun. I had a great day. I plan to do more movement, mag change and transition drills. The handgun I used Sat. was a Glock 19 because that is the pistol that I carry 90% of the time. Here are a few pictures of the upgrade.

Image

Image
Congratulations Stanley.

I'm not normally too much of an AR guy (although my son certainly is) - but when I see "match trigger", I get interested! :D
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

User avatar
Stanley76
Master of Swords
Master of Swords
Posts: 2670
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:50 pm
Location: Pungo River NC

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Stanley76 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:39 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:44 pm
Stanley76 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:33 pm
Recently I decided to upgrade my AR. It's a Bushmaster Patrol Carbine. The rebuild included a new upper, new stock assembly, and a titanium buffer, larger pistol grip, a more ergonomic selector lever, match trigger, extended handguard and new iron sights. I got my buddy who is a gunsmith to do the work and traded him the old upper for doing the work so I only had to buy the parts.

I picked it up last Saturday (Independence Day) and went to the range to zero in the sights and the optic (Aimpoint Comp M2). Liked it. Once I got it dialed in I did some dynamic movement drills, changing positions, shooting from standing, kneeling, ect., mag changes and transitioning from carbine to handgun. I had a great day. I plan to do more movement, mag change and transition drills. The handgun I used Sat. was a Glock 19 because that is the pistol that I carry 90% of the time. Here are a few pictures of the upgrade.

Image

Image
Congratulations Stanley.

I'm not normally too much of an AR guy (although my son certainly is) - but when I see "match trigger", I get interested! :D
Cool. The trigger is a BCM PNT. It's not one of those 200.00 plus jobs but it has very little creep, smooth and a clean break. The reset is solid. Not sure what the pull is but it's not as heavy as the original trigger.
"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

User avatar
JimVH
Boop Totesadorbs' Dad
Boop Totesadorbs' Dad
Posts: 25632
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as soon as I could.
Contact:

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by JimVH » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:20 pm

Stanley76 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:39 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:44 pm
Stanley76 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:33 pm
Recently I decided to upgrade my AR. It's a Bushmaster Patrol Carbine. The rebuild included a new upper, new stock assembly, and a titanium buffer, larger pistol grip, a more ergonomic selector lever, match trigger, extended handguard and new iron sights. I got my buddy who is a gunsmith to do the work and traded him the old upper for doing the work so I only had to buy the parts.

I picked it up last Saturday (Independence Day) and went to the range to zero in the sights and the optic (Aimpoint Comp M2). Liked it. Once I got it dialed in I did some dynamic movement drills, changing positions, shooting from standing, kneeling, ect., mag changes and transitioning from carbine to handgun. I had a great day. I plan to do more movement, mag change and transition drills. The handgun I used Sat. was a Glock 19 because that is the pistol that I carry 90% of the time. Here are a few pictures of the upgrade.

Image

Image
Congratulations Stanley.

I'm not normally too much of an AR guy (although my son certainly is) - but when I see "match trigger", I get interested! :D
Cool. The trigger is a BCM PNT. It's not one of those 200.00 plus jobs but it has very little creep, smooth and a clean break. The reset is solid. Not sure what the pull is but it's not as heavy as the original trigger.
Nice.
"The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days." Ray Wylie Hubbard

User avatar
durangopipe
The Goat Fairy
The Goat Fairy
Posts: 8476
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: Southwest Colorado

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:13 pm

Annual cleaning of the guns in the safe that weren't shot this past year (too many!).
Fun though.

Image

:pipe3:
Last edited by durangopipe on Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

User avatar
Thunktank
Needs to smoke more
Needs to smoke more
Posts: 23131
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: 471 Km from the London Bridge

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:43 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:13 pm
Annual cleaning of the guns in the safe that weren't shot this past year (too many!).
Fun though.

Image
I have a feeling most guns in America aren’t shot every year. I have a couple that get sporadically shot too.

What sort of accuracy do you get from that M77 of yours?

It amazes me how accurate some entry level bolt guns are today like the Ruger American. Ugly, but very accurate. Your M77 is one of the best looking bolt guns made IMO.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

No complaining + gratefulness= happiness

User avatar
durangopipe
The Goat Fairy
The Goat Fairy
Posts: 8476
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: Southwest Colorado

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by durangopipe » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:52 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:43 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:13 pm
Annual cleaning of the guns in the safe that weren't shot this past year (too many!).
Fun though.

Image
I have a feeling most guns in America aren’t shot every year. I have a couple that get sporadically shot too.

What sort of accuracy do you get from that M77 of yours?

It amazes me how accurate some entry level bolt guns are today like the Ruger American. Ugly, but very accurate.

It’s a .270.

Averages around 1 3/4" ** @ 100yds with Hornady Custom Ammunition 140gr. SST - best factory ammo I found for this gun. Of course, they don't make it anymore and haven't for about a decade. :lol:

I've still got a few boxes.

It actually shoots both 130gr. and 150gr. Core Lokt about as well.

I imagine I'd be able to do at least a little better if I worked up a load for it, but I gave all of my metallic cartridge reloading gear to my son around the same time I got this rifle (fall of 2008). I was loading an ungodly amount of shotgun shells at the time and just didn't have time for rifle loads; besides, my son had just bought a .375 Ruger and either he was going to have to buy his own reloading gear or go broke shooting it. He needed the rifle reloading gear more than I did.

It's plenty accurate for a hunting rifle, and I like the quasi-Mauser action very much.
It's built like a tank. Large loading port. Easy to work with gloves.

** Edit: I posted this from memory. I may be wrong about the average group size. I’m thinking it must be better than that, but I can’t honestly remember for sure. I often save sight-in targets. If I can find one for this rifle I’ll update.

It’s a Hawkeye Model (one of the earliest) made long after Ruger stopped outsourcing their barrels and began hammer forging them in house. M77 accuracy consistency improved dramatically once they started making their own barrels for them.

I do know for sure that mine is not an MOA rifle.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

User avatar
joegoat
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Minstrel of Midnight Serenades
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Southwest Ohio

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by joegoat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:59 pm

I have been looking for a stainless boat paddle stock M77 for years. I don't know why, but I find them to be the ultimate combination of classic bolt gun and rugged bush gun.
I have one of Rugers Gunsite Scouts in 308. It is basically a modified M77 and a great little rifle.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

"A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Thunktank
Needs to smoke more
Needs to smoke more
Posts: 23131
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: 471 Km from the London Bridge

Re: GUNS! That's what's happenin'!

Post by Thunktank » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:08 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:52 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:43 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:13 pm
Annual cleaning of the guns in the safe that weren't shot this past year (too many!).
Fun though.

Image
I have a feeling most guns in America aren’t shot every year. I have a couple that get sporadically shot too.

What sort of accuracy do you get from that M77 of yours?

It amazes me how accurate some entry level bolt guns are today like the Ruger American. Ugly, but very accurate.

It’s a .270.

Averages around 1 3/4" ** @ 100yds with Hornady Custom Ammunition 140gr. SST - best factory ammo I found for this gun. Of course, they don't make it anymore and haven't for about a decade. :lol:

I've still got a few boxes.

It actually shoots both 130gr. and 150gr. Core Lokt about as well.

I imagine I'd be able to do at least a little better if I worked up a load for it, but I gave all of my metallic cartridge reloading gear to my son around the same time I got this rifle (fall of 2008). I was loading an ungodly amount of shotgun shells at the time and just didn't have time for rifle loads; besides, my son had just bought a .375 Ruger and either he was going to have to buy his own reloading gear or go broke shooting it. He needed the rifle reloading gear more than I did.

It's plenty accurate for a hunting rifle, and I like the quasi-Mauser action very much.
It's built like a tank. Large loading port. Easy to work with gloves.

** Edit: I posted this from memory. I may be wrong about the average group size. I’m thinking it must be better than that, but I can’t honestly remember for sure. I often save sight-in targets. If I can find one for this rifle I’ll update.

It’s a Hawkeye Model (one of the earliest) made long after Ruger stopped outsourcing their barrels and began hammer forging them in house. M77 accuracy consistency improved dramatically once they started making their own barrels for them.

I do know for sure that mine is not an MOA rifle.
Interesting. That’s about what I’m getting out of mine too in .260 Remington. Using Hornady GMX and Remington Core Lokt. Prior to that rifle, my bolt experience has been Remington 7, and 700s and Browning A-bolts. All sub MOA capable with the right ammunition. I haven’t done extensive work on the Ruger though and I have several loads of hand loaded rounds to try.

When I first bought it I was getting three inch groups, then I discovered the action screw was loose, so I tightened that up and cut the groups nearly in half. I suppose it is accurate enough for hunting, especially since I adhere to keeping shots at game to below 300 yards.

Anyway, talk about relative accuracy and range, I’m actually planning on using my flintlock for at least some mule deer hunting this season. Patched round ball and all! I may be handicapping myself more than is sane! It’s an experiment really as I consider doing muzzleloader and traditional archery only hunting from now on. I think it’s a reaction to all the long range hunting being pushed these days.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

No complaining + gratefulness= happiness

Post Reply