Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Del » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:41 am

tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:22 am
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:29 pm
FredS wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:37 pm
Where the hell are our moderators? This thread has been alive for 6 1/2 hrs.
The man has a valid point.
Since Skip, Pepik, and Hugo all stepped down it seems UB is the new ban enforcer in town. My conjecture is he's too busy aiming his guns at wos and Del to worry about threads like this. Besides, we're all big boys. I think we can handle it. Don't let the ban make us think we can't.
Any moderator would do well to keep a close eye on Del & Wos & Goose.

Any developments on this tragic event? I can't find any morning news releases, or rumors of protests and riots.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Goose55 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:47 am

Del wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:22 am
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:29 pm
FredS wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:37 pm
Where the hell are our moderators? This thread has been alive for 6 1/2 hrs.
The man has a valid point.
Since Skip, Pepik, and Hugo all stepped down it seems UB is the new ban enforcer in town. My conjecture is he's too busy aiming his guns at wos and Del to worry about threads like this. Besides, we're all big boys. I think we can handle it. Don't let the ban make us think we can't.
Any moderator would do well to keep a close eye on Del & Wos & Goose.

Any developments on this tragic event? I can't find any morning news releases, or rumors of protests and riots.
According to court records, a charge of criminal homicide has been filed against East Pittsburgh Police Officer Michael Rosfeld in connection with the fatal shooting. I was under the impression Rosfeld had a fellow Officer with him when the vehicle was stopped but this article states he was the only Officer at the stop. A 2nd patrol car arrived at about the time the shots were fired.

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/06 ... ittsburgh/
Last edited by Goose55 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by John-Boy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:01 am

coco wrote:
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Thunktank » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:14 pm

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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by rgcurrey » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:54 pm

I do not know all the details, I do realize that incidents like this that happen in real time are easy to judge after and hard to judge while it is actually happening. I will say though that I feel sick when I here that someone who was running from law enforcement and did not have a gun (weapon) in their hand, was shot in the back. I don't care what the report was that this car may or may not have been involved in, I don't don't care if it later comes out that the victim was the shooter and he is on video shooting from the car and dna on the gun that matches the bullet shot (i.e. no question of guilt), we as a society should not be ok with shooting an unarmed person in the back.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Goose55 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:43 pm

It's really such a pity that the young man decided to flee because he had nothing wrong. He would have been released and slept in his own bed at home that night. Such a tragedy.

Video surveillance confirms it was the youth in the back seat of that car that had been the shooter at the drive by shooting. Perhaps it was this "friend" in the back seat that convinced him to run with him.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Del » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:56 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:43 pm
It's really such a pity that the young man decided to flee because he had nothing wrong. He would have been released and slept in his own bed at home that night. Such a tragedy.

Video surveillance confirms it was the youth in the back seat of that car that had been the shooter at the drive by shooting. Perhaps it was this "friend" in the back seat that convinced him to run with him.
Aye. No doubt, this death is needless and tragic. Criminal charges against the officer are also tragic.

This kid was 15 -- an age prone to foolish mistakes. But why did the child play at drive-by shootings? Why did the child run from a policeman with his gun drawn?
============================================

I have a very wise friend who studies the gang culture and works with former gang members. He says that the young men are looking for father-figures to fill the void that the absent father has created. The gang provides that sort of "acceptance" into adult male life that a father is supposed to guide a young man through.

We won't see an end to gun violence until we see a restoration of the natural family in our culture. It's as simple -- and as unimaginable -- as that.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Goose55 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:13 pm

This Officer charged with homicide isn't a done thing. He knew the occupants of the car had been involved in a drive by shooting, so he knew there could well be guns in that vehicle. So, it's dicey. The trial will be closely followed.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by TNLawPiper » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:33 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:43 pm
It's really such a pity that the young man decided to flee because he had nothing wrong. He would have been released and slept in his own bed at home that night. Such a tragedy.

Video surveillance confirms it was the youth in the back seat of that car that had been the shooter at the drive by shooting. Perhaps it was this "friend" in the back seat that convinced him to run with him.
Being in the front seat during a drive-by murder is enough to get him charged with accessory or conspiracy, at the very least. He knew he'd be doing time if caught, which is why he ran. It was an instinct I'm sure most people would feel at such a young age.

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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by coco » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:46 am

John-Boy wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:01 am
coco wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:22 am
I've been reading with one finger on the delete button.
I’ve been reading with one finger in my nose.
We have two hands, so we can do both.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by FredS » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:19 am

TNLawPiper wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:33 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:43 pm
It's really such a pity that the young man decided to flee because he had nothing wrong. He would have been released and slept in his own bed at home that night. Such a tragedy.

Video surveillance confirms it was the youth in the back seat of that car that had been the shooter at the drive by shooting. Perhaps it was this "friend" in the back seat that convinced him to run with him.
Being in the front seat during a drive-by murder is enough to get him charged with accessory or conspiracy, at the very least. He knew he'd be doing time if caught, which is why he ran. It was an instinct I'm sure most people would feel at such a young age.
Many (most?) of these young criminals were raised without a father and they seem to have no model for life beyond childhood. Say, age 25.

Twice, in the span of just a few minutes this kid put himself in someones gun sights. Once in the return fire in the drive-by and once by the cop. Holy hell. I've never been shot at, and this kid was shot at twice in just one day and who knows how many other times over the last year or two. That he was willing to risk death so cavalierly indicates he had no hope. No dreams. No love for anyone. No love from anyone. Nothing.

I don't want to conflate gangsters returning fire with a LEO's gunfire but, as the protesters gather, I hope they remember the officer wasn't the only one who shot at the kid that day. Someone in their own community did so a few minutes earlier.
Last edited by FredS on Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Del » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:25 am

coco wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:46 am
John-Boy wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:01 am
coco wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:22 am
I've been reading with one finger on the delete button.
I’ve been reading with one finger in my nose.
We have two hands, so we can do both.
While smoking a pipe and sitting on the potty, too. Mod-masters of multi-tasking.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Goose55 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:14 am

TNLawPiper wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:33 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:43 pm
It's really such a pity that the young man decided to flee because he had nothing wrong. He would have been released and slept in his own bed at home that night. Such a tragedy.

Video surveillance confirms it was the youth in the back seat of that car that had been the shooter at the drive by shooting. Perhaps it was this "friend" in the back seat that convinced him to run with him.
Being in the front seat during a drive-by murder is enough to get him charged with accessory or conspiracy, at the very least. He knew he'd be doing time if caught, which is why he ran. It was an instinct I'm sure most people would feel at such a young age.
Yup. That was definitely not your ordinary traffic stop. Police could be quite certain that that vehicle, and it's occupants were the ones involved in the drive by shooting that had just occurred minutes before. The officer had no way of knowing which of the three was the shooter, nor could he know where the weapon/s were. The two bolted out of the car so quickly he had only a fraction of a second to react. If I were that officer and had time to think through my response, I'd have thought if I shoot them in the butt and they are armed, they would still potentially be dangerous.

I think the case will boil down to not knowing where the weapon/s were, and his being the only Officer at the scene with no assistance to render not just one, but three suspects secure.

Definitely aggravated circumstances. And the case against the Officer is not slam dunk. Of course, if he is acquitted we'll have a volatile situation in Pittsburgh.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:08 pm

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Goose55 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:16 pm

Yes, such transactions in this 'ol world are worthy of singing the blues
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by FredS » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:35 pm

Of course Bob posted the censored version.
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by UncleBob » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:04 am

Image

Image

Image
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by Goose55 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:55 am

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:04 am
Image

Image

Image
Pointy Birds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lVTLbvSK44
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by FredS » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:22 am

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:04 am
Image
I got the point Bob. That we're privileged white guys who have no idea what life in the hood is like. That we're quick to judge others based on their circumstances even if they didn't put themselves in the middle of whatever mess they're in. That one or two bad choices or unlucky breaks could land us in the same place. That urban cops treat brown or black people differently than me.

All that may be true, but why should that stop me from commenting on the topic at hand? Of course you've not written that I shouldn't comment, but the implication in the Everlast song is that we shouldn't judge others unless we've walked in their shoes. Since I've never been a black teenager or a single mother I should be silent?
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Re: Use Of Police Lethal Force on Pittsburgh, PA Teen

Post by UncleBob » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:32 am

FredS wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:22 am
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:04 am
Image
I got the point Bob. That we're privileged white guys who have no idea what life in the hood is like. That we're quick to judge others based on their circumstances even if they didn't put themselves in the middle of whatever mess they're in. That one or two bad choices or unlucky breaks could land us in the same place. That urban cops treat brown or black people differently than me.

All that may be true, but why should that stop me from commenting on the topic at hand? Of course you've not written that I shouldn't comment, but the implication in the Everlast song is that we shouldn't judge others unless we've walked in their shoes. Since I've never been a black teenager or a single mother I should be silent?
Actually, that is half the point. The other is that of trying to understand what it is like to live and serve as a police officer in that context. Most of these threads, in the past, end up as exercises of reading in our experiences to the situation instead of trying to understand what happened from the view of the participants.
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