Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

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Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:19 pm

Everybody is shuffling around their perverted pastors. Something tells me this one won’t make quite the same headline splash.

Long story short, hundreds of SBC pastors, leaders and volunteers credibly abused children, many went back to ministry after having been convicted and the leadership refused to create a database to prevent it from happening.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hundreds-of- ... misconduct

Here’s a much better article from th Houston Chronicle. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/i ... 588038.php

Please pray, folks. The Devil is loose and destroying our families.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by Steverino » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 pm

I read the Houston Chronicle article earlier today. I was a Southern Baptist for many years and have been on the staff at 8 or 9 SBC churches. The article pretty much floored me. I knew about the thing Patterson was involved in but that's all I've ever heard about. I looked at the database that the Chronicle made and, sure enough, I knew one of the guys on it. I didn't know him super well but I would never have suspected this of him. We had this problem in our church last year - one guy messing with the youth and one involved in child porn. I think we learned some things. I sure hope so.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by FredS » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:10 pm

OWS posted this earlier on FB. As he's a Catholic, it's important to understand he's called for strict punishment of offending priests and has never gone easy on them. He correctly pointed out the RCC isn't the only institution with abusers among it's ranks but is more like the canary in the coal mine. I know women who've been abused by soccer coaches, school staff members, police officers, and daycare workers. People get twisted up over priests and pastors because the church is supposed to be a place of refuge, held higher than other places of trust. Mostly it's people who don't attend church who think that. Those of us who do, know it's a body of imperfect men and women just like all our other institutions, but yes, we're doubly hurt when this happens because we are called to be different than the world.

I pray for healing for the victims and the abusers. I also pray the abusers and enablers are punished to the fullest extent possible under the law.

This shouldn't happen.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:33 pm

That's all you can hope for, I guess. It's hard for me to come to terms with people being in danger in their houses of worship. Everybody needs to be on their guard, unfortunately (pastors arent safe, either) and pray. All believers are in danger.

Fred, it seems to me the most dangerous path anybody can go down is the "he's a Catholic" or "he's a Baptist" roads, and I sincerely hope nobody thinks I'm doing that. The pain I've seen in my own community has been terrible to experience and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It would be easy to think that this or that sect is having troubles because of their theology, but it would be incredibly foolish to think so: the Devil hates God and he hates man, too. Belief drives him bonkers.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by FredS » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:54 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:33 pm
. . . Fred, it seems to me the most dangerous path anybody can go down is the "he's a Catholic" or "he's a Baptist" roads, and I sincerely hope nobody thinks I'm doing that . . .
No, no, of course not. I only mentioned that because OWS, like all reasonable men, has never tried to minimize what's happened simply because the abusers are on his team. As you wrote, this is not something we should to get tribal about. No circling the wagons. No finger pointing or your-guy-is-worse-than-my-guy nonsense.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by coco » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:04 pm

To whom it may concern,

If you have reason to suspect that someone is abusing a minor, you MUST report to Child Protective Services.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:09 pm

FredS wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:54 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:33 pm
. . . Fred, it seems to me the most dangerous path anybody can go down is the "he's a Catholic" or "he's a Baptist" roads, and I sincerely hope nobody thinks I'm doing that . . .
No, no, of course not. I only mentioned that because OWS, like all reasonable men, has never tried to minimize what's happened simply because the abusers are on his team. As you wrote, this is not something we should to get tribal about. No circling the wagons. No finger pointing or your-guy-is-worse-than-my-guy nonsense.
Couldn't agree more. Abusers arent playing for any team. They're suiting up merely to deceive whilst hiding under the uniform. Reading this stuff always highlights how incredibly lucky and sheltered my life has been.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by tuttle » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:20 pm

I, unfortunately, was not surprised. I was at a church where a leader was discovered abusing minors (who had done the same at a previous church in another state, unknown at the time of hiring). He's in jail for a long time now. Perhaps because of that, similar stories have caught my eye more than they would have if that never happened.

Local autonomy, just like hierarchy, aren't to blame. The wolves (and their abettors, passive or active) are to blame.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by Cleon » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:41 pm

If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:52 pm

Cleon wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:41 pm
If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
I tried to start a pool for poster most likely to post that, but everyone said it was going to be Cleon.

He ain't wrong, though.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by Cleon » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:55 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:52 pm
Cleon wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:41 pm
If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
I tried to start a pool for poster most likely to post that, but everyone said it was going to be Cleon.

He ain't wrong, though.
Hey, what can I say? Little kids have a special place in the Kingdom.

I wonder how any abuser of little kids makes it out alive. It must be the shock of it all that keeps people from tearing them limb from limb.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by DepartedLight » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:33 pm

If you have reason to suspect that someone is abusing a minor, you MUST report it to Child Protective Services.
DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by sweetandsour » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:12 pm

Has it been this way since the git go?

Unfortunately I am not surprised at this recent news. There's predators, thieves, and Peyton Places everywhere it seems.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by ReverendThom » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:09 pm

:'(

It angers me that churches continually do this.

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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:48 pm

I dont think churches do. Men do.

Fred said it best. The church is full of broken people.

I dont condone anything. Prosecute and remove from ministry. Simple to say, painful to do.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by Fainn » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:02 pm


hugodrax wrote:I dont think churches do. Men .
I know if at least one female nursery worker. Wish they had pressed charges.



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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by hugodrax » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 pm

Fainn wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:02 pm
hugodrax wrote:I dont think churches do. Men .
I know if at least one female nursery worker. Wish they had pressed charges.



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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by DAN » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:20 pm

I'm not so sure how autonomous they are. We often SAY SBC churches are autonomous, but the reality is an awful darn lot of 'em have been swallowing everything the same ol' group of good ol' boys at the top has been saying for decades. Saying the SBC is run by a clique is understating the matter.
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by coco » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:22 pm

A denominational database of allegations (not convictions) would set the denomination up for being charged with libel, right?
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Re: Looks Like Local Autonomy Doesn’t Work, Either

Post by FredS » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:26 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 pm
Fainn wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:02 pm
hugodrax wrote:I dont think churches do. Men .
I know if at least one female nursery worker. Wish they had pressed charges.



Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk
Men = humanity.

I went to school in the dark ages
And yet you felt woke enough to lecture me on inclusivity in the Jocose LGBTGSJ thread. :rolleyes:
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"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

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