The Baptist Thread

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Fainn
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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by Fainn » Thu May 16, 2019 8:31 am

tuttle wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:42 am
Fainn wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:36 pm
Side note: I did actually have a revelation from God that included Scripture.
I'm not sure what you mean by that
He brought words of Scripture to my mind when I was going through a tough time
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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by tuttle » Thu May 16, 2019 8:40 am

Fainn wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:31 am
tuttle wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:42 am
Fainn wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:36 pm
Side note: I did actually have a revelation from God that included Scripture.
I'm not sure what you mean by that
He brought words of Scripture to my mind when I was going through a tough time
:thumbsup:
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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by tuttle » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:22 am

The SBC just wrapped up their annual meeting. From what I can tell they had an appropriate response to the sexual abuse scandals taking place. And while resolutions aren't binding on churches, they do (for me at least) indicate the direction on where the SBC is going. The big bluster this year heading into the meeting seemed to be the complementarian/"women as preachers" and the sexual abuse scandals. I'm not finding much official about the complementarian issue, though some folks on twitter indicated it was much talked about on the ground. My guess is that that issue will only grow until next year, when there'll be some sort of resolution put forward.

But one thing, outside of those issues, did ring my bell. There was a resolution about Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality. If anyone has been paying attention, this too, has been an increasing battle ground. It's one of the reasons the Statement on Social Justice document became a thing, in fact the idea for it began at last years SBC meeting in Dallas. That sort of sparked an in-house, informal (mostly via social media, sometimes at conferences) debate about social justice, of which Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality have a hand in. Which leads me to believe that this resolution springs from this debate.

First, the resolution:

Image
RESOLUTION 9 – ON CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND INTERSECTIONALITY
Wednesday, June 12, 2019


WHEREAS, Concerns have been raised by some evangelicals over the use of frameworks such as critical race theory and intersectionality, and

WHEREAS, Critical race theory is a set of analytical tools that explain how race has and continues to function in society, and intersectionality is the study of how different personal characteristics overlap and inform one’s experience, and

WHEREAS, Critical race theory and intersectionality have been appropriated by individuals with worldviews that are contrary to the Christian faith, resulting in ideologies and methods that contradict Scripture, and

WHEREAS, Evangelical scholars who affirm the authority and sufficiency of Scripture have employed selective insights from critical race theory and intersectionality to understand multifaceted social dynamics, and

WHEREAS, The Baptist Faith and Message states, “[A}ll Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian U***n, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried” (Article 1), and

WHEREAS, General revelation accounts for truthful insights found in human ideas that do not explicitly emerge from Scripture and reflects what some may term “common grace”, and

WHEREAS, Critical race theory and intersectionality alone are insufficient to diagnose and redress the root causes of the social ills that they identify, which result from sin, yet these analytical tools can aid in evaluating a variety of human experiences, and

WHEREAS, Scripture contains categories and principles by which to deal with racism, poverty, sexism, injustice, and abuse that are not rooted in secular ideologies, and

WHEREAS, Humanity is primarily identified in Scripture as image bearers of God, even as biblical authors address various audiences according to characteristics such as male and female, Jew and Gentile, slave and free, and

WHEREAS, The New Covenant further unites image bearers by creating a new humanity that will one day inhabit the new creation, and that the people of this new humanity, though descended from every nation, tribe, tongue, and people, are all one through the gospel of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:16, Revelation 21:1-4, 9-14), and

WHEREAS, Christian citizenship is not based on our differences but instead on our common salvation in Christ—the source of our truest and ultimate identity, and

WHEREAS, The Southern Baptist Convention is committed to racial reconciliation built upon biblical presuppositions and is committed to seeking biblical justice through biblical means, now therefore, be it


RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Birmingham, Alabama, June 11-12, 2019, affirms Scripture as the first, last, and sufficient authority with regard to how the Church seeks to redress social ills, and we reject any conduct, creeds, and religious opinions which contradict Scripture, and be it further

RESOLVED, That critical race theory and intersectionality should only be employed as analytical tools subordinate to Scripture—not as transcendent ideological frameworks, and be it further

RESOLVED, That the gospel of Jesus Christ alone grants the power to change people and society because “he who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus” (Philippians 1:6), and be it further

RESOLVED, That Southern Baptists will carefully analyze how the information gleaned from these tools are employed to address social dynamics, and be it further

RESOLVED, That Southern Baptist churches and institutions repudiate the misuse of insights gained from critical race theory, intersectionality, and any unbiblical ideologies that can emerge from their use when absolutized as a worldview, and be it further

RESOLVED, That we deny any philosophy or theology that fundamentially defines individuals using categories identified as sinful in Scripture rather than the transcendent reality shared by every image bearer and divinely affirmed distinctions, and be it further

RESOLVED, That while we denounce the misuse of critical race theory and intersectionality, we do not deny that ethnic, gender, and cultural distinctions exist and are a gift from God that will give Him absolute glory when all humanity gathers around His throne in worship because of the redemption accomplished by our resurrected Lord, and be it finally

RESOLVED, That Southern Baptist churches seek to exhibit the eschatological promise in our churches in the present by focusing on unity in Christ amid image bearers and rightly celebrate our differences as determined by God in the new creation.
TL;DR: Scripture and Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality (CRT&I) can hold hands, so long as Scripture has the tighter grip.

There's a lot of good qualifying going on here, (Scripture is primary, justice ought to be biblical, rejecting CRT&I as legitimate frameworks, etc) so much so that it leads me to wonder why a resolution like this needed crafted in the first place. Reading through it, it almost seems like they've sucked all the power and energy of what makes CRT&I)have any sort of weight. (I mean, in my mind that's a good thing.)

But the ominousness of all of this is that this resolution, regardless of the qualifying, has now officially legitimized these theories as acceptable 'analytical tools' within the SBC. Not only does this resolution fail to capture the whole of CRT&I (not saying it should, but it gives a very, very generic, toothless, and neutral description of each), but it fails to take into account that the "concerns raised" are that these theories cannot be used as mere tools. If you make them submit to Scripture, they cease to be of value because the theories, in and of themselves, conflict with Scripture. It's like making a resolution that says you can use a hammer as a tool, so long as you don't use it for hammering. So I'm left to conclude that the only reason this was a resolution in the first place was to legitimize the theories. The language used is middle of the road, or more likely walking a tightrope. The reality is that the SBC won't stay balanced forever, and legitimizing these theories as useful tools rather than outright condemning them, they've become much too heavy on their leftside.

I read that there was almost no debate/discussion held about this, and that those who did oppose the resolution, even offering to amend it, specifying their actual concerns, wound up failing. It happened toward the end when many folks had already left, and my guess is that many folks don't quite understand what CRT&I actually are.
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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by tuttle » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:04 am

Just an update on the post immediately above this about the SBC's resolution on Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality.

Turns out the original resolution that was given to the SBC resolution committee was written to explicitly denounce and warn about CRT & I entering into the church. In the SBC you can submit a resolution and people are very aware that the Resolution Committee has the ability to edit or change wording (perhaps many resolutions about a certain issue have been submitted and the committee then merges those concerns into a single resolution, or maybe some dumb hick wrote it who doesn't write well, etc), but I think it's fair to say that the changes/edits that everyone assumes the Committee is doing are very much a clean up and clarifying, rather than changing the content, especially in such an extreme reversal as has happened with this resolution.

Read the original here: https://sovereignway.blogspot.com/2019/ ... e.html?m=1

This only adds a greater weight to my initial concerns (in the post immediately above). Explicit concerns outlined in the original were tamped down, condemnation was turned into acceptance and even an encouragement to use them as useful tools. In the most extreme 'benefit of the doubt' scenario, the best you can say is that the Committee that changed this wording/content tried to walk a middle of the road line on theories they see are divisive in SBC life, and that they came to this decision because they completely fail to understand what they are dealing with. However, I tend to give the Committee more credit in understanding what the theories are, so I don't quite buy that. At bottom, it must be said that the majority of the Committee must be sympathetic to the theories and hold them in a favorable light. At the worst, there is a conscious effort to infuse these theories into the church, and the committee used this resolution to knowingly leave the back door unlocked for a future invasion. Even without those motives, that's essentially what they've done. But knowing now that the original was anti-CRT&I and the revised flipped it into a positive affirmation of the same, it's hard to believe that there aren't people doing this on purpose.


EDIT: A better analysis of all of this, and from someone who was on the ground floor, here: https://founders.org/2019/06/15/resolut ... tion-2019/
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by tim_witten » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:22 pm

Fainn wrote:I like stringed instruments so no primitive Baptists.
We Primitive Baptists don’t use any instruments; stringed or other wise....


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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by tim_witten » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:25 pm

Growing up Dad always said that Baptists multiplied by dividing.

Has this thread spawned any other threads yet?


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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by Fainn » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:32 pm

tim_witten wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:25 pm
Growing up Dad always said that Baptists multiplied by dividing.

Has this thread spawned any other threads yet?


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It might. I need someone to explain critical race theory and intersectionality to me
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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by tim_witten » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:43 pm

Fainn wrote:
tim_witten wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:25 pm
Growing up Dad always said that Baptists multiplied by dividing.

Has this thread spawned any other threads yet?


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It might. I need someone to explain critical race theory and intersectionality to me
I had to Google those terms and you’re on your own.


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Re: The Baptist Thread

Post by Sir Moose » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:50 pm

tim_witten wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:43 pm
Fainn wrote:
tim_witten wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:25 pm
Growing up Dad always said that Baptists multiplied by dividing.

Has this thread spawned any other threads yet?


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It might. I need someone to explain critical race theory and intersectionality to me
I had to Google those terms and you’re on your own.

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Critical race intersectionality?
Image
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.

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