A Preponderance of Evidence

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sweetandsour
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A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by sweetandsour » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:09 pm

Before yesterday morning I had no idea what a Preponderance of Evidence was. I'm not sure I know exactly what it is now. But I sure got into a discussion with opposing lawyers yesterday, and the judge too, before I finally got dismissed from jury duty. I think they really wanted me, but I wouldn't go along with their idea of a Preponderance. When I told one attorney that I really didn't like to answer that kind of question, that I might say one thing now, and think something else later when I learn details, the judge spoke up and said that would give him great consternation. I think that's when I got dismissed. Oh well.

But now, all day today, I've based my whole day on a Preponderance.
Is it going to rain tonight? There's greater than 50% chance, so yes it'll rain.
Are you going by the store this afternoon?, my wife asks.
There's a 60% chance that I'll be near there, so yes I'll go.

I still may not get it entirely. But I do know that I've got to be really convinced of something, to be able to say whether one guy gets a million dollars from another guys' family business. I don't know. Perhaps I'm just really not jury material.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by Jocose » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:15 pm

ONE WORD:

Jury duty much?
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by sweetandsour » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:20 am

Jocose wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:15 pm
ONE WORD:

Jury duty much?
I've been dismissed every time.
I'm old but I'm happy. (Most of the time.)

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by Stanley76 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:15 am

I got summoned for jury duty once. I was a police officer at the time and tried to get excused since there was no defense attorney in that whole town who would have allowed me to sit on a jury but the judge said I had to report anyway. The day came and there I sat along with a bunch of other citizens, one guy was a professional juggler, nice guy. I had decided that I really honestly did want to try to get on a jury just to see how the people interacted during deliberations.

The first case was a robbery case in which the accused had beaten a snot out of a pregnant woman while snatching her purse. I knew the Assistant D.A., the defense attorney and the judge. My name came up as one of the prospective jurors to be polled by the lawyers. The judge saw me and was smiling, the D.A. was chuckling, and the defense attorney looked at me and rolled his eyes. When they started asking me questions I almost begged to be on that jury. I swore I could be objective and consider only the evidence presented, the works. The defense attorney dismissed me of course and the judge laughed and said "Good try". Turns out the guy's excuse for robbing the woman was that he owed money to a drug dealer who had threatened him. There was a video of the robbery too. Slam dunk guilty so I probably wouldn't have learned very much about jury deliberations.

I had to stay in the jury pool for two more cases one criminal, one civil but I never even got polled. After I retired I was summoned one more time but that presiding judge also knew me and excused me immediately. I still wish I had gotten to sit on a jury during deliberations.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by gaining_age » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:39 am

It's tricky.

The prosecutor in the case I was in as a juror kept harping on "premeditated" -- just a reflection is all it takes like a decision to run through a yellow light. That didn't sit right because how can you know when or what a premeditated action like that happens. That seemed very loose and tricky.

It was last year about this time that it was over but that experience left me a little shaken about what goes on in the community. I wrote about this elsewhere but I don't have an easy time with the dispensary community now. I do believe medical CBD, etc. has some value but boy did it obviously pull in ugly other factors from sinful man.

Deliberation was an interesting time with strangers from the area all together to make decisions. Yet it was exhausting to hold in all thoughts and not communicate or soundboard about it during the time of the trial- to have to wait to discuss until deliberation time (which was weeks after the start of the trial).

I came away feeling like the process works.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by DepartedLight » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:49 am

sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:20 am
Jocose wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:15 pm
ONE WORD:

Jury duty much?
I've been dismissed every time.
I'm using your fool proof method to dip on jury duty.
DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by TNLawPiper » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:43 am

sweetandsour wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:09 pm
Before yesterday morning I had no idea what a Preponderance of Evidence was. I'm not sure I know exactly what it is now. But I sure got into a discussion with opposing lawyers yesterday, and the judge too, before I finally got dismissed from jury duty. I think they really wanted me, but I wouldn't go along with their idea of a Preponderance. When I told one attorney that I really didn't like to answer that kind of question, that I might say one thing now, and think something else later when I learn details, the judge spoke up and said that would give him great consternation. I think that's when I got dismissed. Oh well.

But now, all day today, I've based my whole day on a Preponderance.
Is it going to rain tonight? There's greater than 50% chance, so yes it'll rain.
Are you going by the store this afternoon?, my wife asks.
There's a 60% chance that I'll be near there, so yes I'll go.

I still may not get it entirely. But I do know that I've got to be really convinced of something, to be able to say whether one guy gets a million dollars from another guys' family business. I don't know. Perhaps I'm just really not jury material.
Preponderance of the evidence is this: if you believe it is a 50/50 probability, you can’t grant the plaintiff relief; if that becomes 50.00000000000001/49.9999999999999, you must grant the plaintiff relief.

Often, the liability and damages phases of a civil lawsuit are bifurcated. This means that you can find the plaintiff is entitled to relief and then decide they’re only entitled to $1. Similarly, even if the plaintiff is entitled to relief, if they were at fault, their damages should be reduced accordingly.

The compensatory damages claimed in most cases are quite small, whereas punitive damages (those designed to punish the defendant and discourage others from similar actions) are typically where the million-dollar-plus damages are seen. Punitive damages require something more than negligence, such as an egregious or intentional harm against the plaintiff, and they’re awarded very infrequently (2% of the cases that go to trial, or .10% of all civil cases, as of 2002).

One misunderstood example is the case where Stella Liebeck was severely burned by the McDonald’s coffee. Her compensatory damages were only $160,000, but the punitive damages—based on the fact that McDonald’s had received hundreds of similar complaints and had never fixed the problem—were $2.7M. This large award of punitive damages amounted to two days’ worth of coffee sales.

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by TNLawPiper » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:45 am

I’ve never been summoned. As an attorney, this rends my soul.

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by JudgeRusty » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 pm

=more likely than not.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by Jocose » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:58 pm

I used to get summoned for jury duty every couple of years it seemed like.

My wife was a juror on a big case a while back.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by JimVH » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:55 pm

I get called every 3 years or so. I’ve only been picked once. It was a civil trial that lasted two days. We didn’t give anyone anything.

I’ll have to give some more thought to the preponderance is evidence issue.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by Winton » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:56 am

I was on a jury for a domestic violence case. We agreed with the facts of the case. She was screaming at him in his face, and he moved her back. But we decided that the "offense" was not a crime. Not Guilty.

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by DepartedLight » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:56 am

Winton wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:56 am
I was on a jury for a domestic violence case. We agreed with the facts of the case. She was screaming at him in his face, and he moved her back. But we decided that the "offense" was not a crime. Not Guilty.
So dude using a cattle prod to back her up wasn't a concern? :clown:
DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by Fainn » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:27 am

A Preponderance of Evidence would be a great name for a tobacco blend.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by JudgeRusty » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:36 am

Fainn wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:27 am
A Preponderance of Evidence would be a great name for a tobacco blend.
I would hold out for the VA-Per "clear and convincing" or the straight Virginia "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by Stanley76 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:11 pm

C&D Probable Cause Vs Mac Barren Reasonable Suspicion. Hard call to make. Both are flake, both are dark fired burley based.
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by sweetandsour » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:27 pm

JudgeRusty wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:36 am
Fainn wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:27 am
A Preponderance of Evidence would be a great name for a tobacco blend.
I would hold out for the VA-Per "clear and convincing" or the straight Virginia "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Before I looked it up I was thinking it was just a quantity, eg, a flock of ducks, a gaggle of geese, a wisp of snipe, an exultation of larks, etc. Or, an "argument of CPSers", perhaps.
I'm old but I'm happy. (Most of the time.)

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by gaining_age » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:07 pm

JudgeRusty wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:36 am
Fainn wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:27 am
A Preponderance of Evidence would be a great name for a tobacco blend.
I would hold out for the VA-Per "clear and convincing" or the straight Virginia "beyond a reasonable doubt."
clear and convincing or "clear and present <danger>"?
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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by JudgeRusty » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:50 pm

sweetandsour wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:27 pm
JudgeRusty wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:36 am
Fainn wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:27 am
A Preponderance of Evidence would be a great name for a tobacco blend.
I would hold out for the VA-Per "clear and convincing" or the straight Virginia "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Before I looked it up I was thinking it was just a quantity, eg, a flock of ducks, a gaggle of geese, a wisp of snipe, an exultation of larks, etc. Or, an "argument of CPSers", perhaps.
Clear and convincing-tough to explain, tough to apply. Complex like a vaper should be. Beyond a reasonable doubt-highest standard.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal

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Re: A Preponderance of Evidence

Post by Goose55 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:55 am

a look at the word, preponderance seems to suggest that the evidence is so strong that one need not ponder or weigh it. Beyond the shadow of a doubt kind of thing.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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