Kentucky Derby

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Kentucky Derby

Post by JimVH » Sat May 04, 2019 5:37 pm

It's sad that the best horse lost. Clearly the best horse.

Apparently rubbin' is not racin'.

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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by hugodrax » Sat May 04, 2019 5:58 pm

Best horse lost because of that damned jockey.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by JudgeRusty » Sun May 05, 2019 7:06 am

hugodrax wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:58 pm
Best horse lost because of that damned jockey.
After reading the statement from steward and recap, I understand better. Article this morning didn't blame jockey but horse when it shied to the side apparently at the noise of the crowd affecting 3 horses, least of all the winner, but Country finished ahead of the other affected horses.
It's a hot brown mess, but there apparently was some reason behind the decision.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by Hovannes » Sun May 05, 2019 7:49 am

I don't understand the Steward's decision blaming the horse.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by TNLawPiper » Sun May 05, 2019 8:51 am

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 105796001/
We had a lengthy review of the race, we interviewed affected riders and we determined the 7 horse (Maximum Security) drifted out and impacted the progress of No. 1 (War of Will), in turn interfering with the 18 (Long Range Todd) and 21 (Bodexpress),” Chief State Steward Barbara Borden said. “Those horses were all affected, we thought, by the interference, and therefore we unanimously determined to disqualify No. 7 and place him behind No. 18.”

Notice who wasn’t affected by the incident, according to the stewards? Country House. He was just a bystander, and frankly, one who had his chance to pass Maximum Security in the stretch and instead fell two lengths behind at the wire.

In other words, stewards disqualified the best horse over an incident that impacted two also-rans while giving the victory to another horse who was never going to win on his own. How does that make sense?
Agreed. And to see how far Maximum Security veered away from the rail, only to move back inside, overtake Code of Honor, and still manage to win by a length, it was clearly the best horse. If anyone should have been upset, it was the jockey for Bodexpress, which made its way from the last chute to the top three for most of the race, until Maximum Security started to veer.

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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by hugodrax » Sun May 05, 2019 9:27 am

Hovannes wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:49 am
I don't understand the Steward's decision blaming the horse.

First thing that jockey said was the crowd noise spooked his horse "cause he a baby, you know?" He knew what was up--you could watch his face during that twenty minutes.

I'm no expert, betting on a grand total of about 10 races a year, but as much as I didn't like it, Maximum Security sure as heck came off his line, threw a block, and caused some serious interference. And it doesn't matter if the horse did it on his own or because of his rider, unfortunately, so we don't need to kill the jockey.

I thought the winning trainer has shown a lot of class.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by durangopipe » Sun May 05, 2019 10:28 am

We don’t know who the best horse in the race was. The incident makes that determination impossible. War of Will was making a serious move when he was blocked, and the jockey had to break his momentum to avoid a wreck. It could have been a lot worse but for some incredible riding on the horses that were blocked.

We’ll never know what might have been or what should have been.

I know we’ve all either seen and heard this or read it but it bears repeating. Country House’s trainer said, “They don’t take many horses down in the Kentucky Derb. If it was a maiden $10,000 race on a Thursday, it’s a no-brainer. There were two horses taken out. … They have a duty to do the right thing. I hope they do.”

The Stewards made the only decision they were allowed under the rules. The horse that veered out of his lane (severely) blocked two horses (one of whom was gaining momentum and breaking for the lead) and had to be disqualified, the horse that crossed the line second became the winner by default, not by dint of his being the best horse in the race.

Unfortunate, but the only proper decision.

And what exact combination of spooked horse and lack of jockey control was involved will also never be known for certain.
If anyone has a legitimate reason to feel he was robbed of a possible victory it is Gaffalione who was on War of Will.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by TNLawPiper » Sun May 05, 2019 5:16 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 10:28 am
We don’t know who the best horse in the race was. The incident makes that determination impossible. War of Will was making a serious move when he was blocked, and the jockey had to break his momentum to avoid a wreck. It could have been a lot worse but for some incredible riding on the horses that were blocked.

We’ll never know what might have been or what should have been.

I know we’ve all either seen and heard this or read it but it bears repeating. Country House’s trainer said, “They don’t take many horses down in the Kentucky Derb. If it was a maiden $10,000 race on a Thursday, it’s a no-brainer. There were two horses taken out. … They have a duty to do the right thing. I hope they do.”

The Stewards made the only decision they were allowed under the rules. The horse that veered out of his lane (severely) blocked two horses (one of whom was gaining momentum and breaking for the lead) and had to be disqualified, the horse that crossed the line second became the winner by default, not by dint of his being the best horse in the race.

Unfortunate, but the only proper decision.

And what exact combination of spooked horse and lack of jockey control was involved will also never be known for certain.
If anyone has a legitimate reason to feel he was robbed of a possible victory it is Gaffalione who was on War of Will.
I noticed at the time how close the feet of War of Will were to those of Maximum Security, and I was surprised there was no collision taking out multiple horses.

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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by ReverendThom » Sun May 05, 2019 7:22 pm

All the people I know that know horse racing said it was the right call. Shrug

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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by FredS » Sun May 05, 2019 7:35 pm

Seems to me that the horse in front controls the track. They worked hard to get in the lead and they should be able to go where they want.

That said, the jockey on Maximum Security knew they blocked others. He tried to get out in front of it as soon as the commentator rode up along side him. Whether he did it on purpose or not, he knew what happened.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by TNLawPiper » Sun May 05, 2019 9:31 pm

FredS wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Seems to me that the horse in front controls the track. They worked hard to get in the lead and they should be able to go where they want.

That said, the jockey on Maximum Security knew they blocked others. He tried to get out in front of it as soon as the commentator rode up along side him. Whether he did it on purpose or not, he knew what happened.
Here’s what the rule says, courtesy of a news report:
"A leading horse if clear is entitled to any part of the track," states the rule, in KAR Title 810. "If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul. If a jockey strikes another horse or jockey, it is a foul. If in the opinion of the stewards a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards."
Source: https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Inter ... 05861.html

Now, there is some controversy because this is THE race. The Grand Poobah, the Big Kahuna—the Kentucky Friggin’ Derby. Some have said this was a call to be made on a lesser race with less at stake, whereas others have said that’s exactly why the disqualification should stand: if jockeys think they can get away with it in the Kentucky Derby, they may be willing to try it anywhere.

I don’t particularly care. This is a controversy that doesn’t raise eyebrows about the treatment of the animals themselves, so it could serve as a helpful distraction from those otherwise terrible scandals. It may cause more people to watch the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes to see whether Maximum Security can pull those out and have a claim to a stolen Triple Crown.

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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by Jocose » Sun May 05, 2019 9:33 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:31 pm
FredS wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Seems to me that the horse in front controls the track. They worked hard to get in the lead and they should be able to go where they want.

That said, the jockey on Maximum Security knew they blocked others. He tried to get out in front of it as soon as the commentator rode up along side him. Whether he did it on purpose or not, he knew what happened.
Here’s what the rule says, courtesy of a news report:
"A leading horse if clear is entitled to any part of the track," states the rule, in KAR Title 810. "If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul. If a jockey strikes another horse or jockey, it is a foul. If in the opinion of the stewards a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards."
Source: https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Inter ... 05861.html

Now, there is some controversy because this is THE race. The Grand Poobah, the Big Kahuna—the Kentucky Friggin’ Derby. Some have said this was a call to be made on a lesser race with less at stake, whereas others have said that’s exactly why the disqualification should stand: if jockeys think they can get away with it in the Kentucky Derby, they may be willing to try it anywhere.

I don’t particularly care. This is a controversy that doesn’t raise eyebrows about the treatment of the animals themselves, so it could serve as a helpful distraction from those otherwise terrible scandals. It may cause more people to watch the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes to see whether Maximum Security can pull those out and have a claim to a stolen Triple Crown.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by TNLawPiper » Sun May 05, 2019 9:35 pm

Jocose wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:33 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:31 pm
FredS wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Seems to me that the horse in front controls the track. They worked hard to get in the lead and they should be able to go where they want.

That said, the jockey on Maximum Security knew they blocked others. He tried to get out in front of it as soon as the commentator rode up along side him. Whether he did it on purpose or not, he knew what happened.
Here’s what the rule says, courtesy of a news report:
"A leading horse if clear is entitled to any part of the track," states the rule, in KAR Title 810. "If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul. If a jockey strikes another horse or jockey, it is a foul. If in the opinion of the stewards a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards."
Source: https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Inter ... 05861.html

Now, there is some controversy because this is THE race. The Grand Poobah, the Big Kahuna—the Kentucky Friggin’ Derby. Some have said this was a call to be made on a lesser race with less at stake, whereas others have said that’s exactly why the disqualification should stand: if jockeys think they can get away with it in the Kentucky Derby, they may be willing to try it anywhere.

I don’t particularly care. This is a controversy that doesn’t raise eyebrows about the treatment of the animals themselves, so it could serve as a helpful distraction from those otherwise terrible scandals. It may cause more people to watch the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes to see whether Maximum Security can pull those out and have a claim to a stolen Triple Crown.
I understand your viewpoint and accept it as fact, though I did not deliberate on the matter.

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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by Jocose » Sun May 05, 2019 9:36 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:35 pm
Jocose wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:33 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:31 pm
FredS wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:35 pm
Seems to me that the horse in front controls the track. They worked hard to get in the lead and they should be able to go where they want.

That said, the jockey on Maximum Security knew they blocked others. He tried to get out in front of it as soon as the commentator rode up along side him. Whether he did it on purpose or not, he knew what happened.
Here’s what the rule says, courtesy of a news report:
"A leading horse if clear is entitled to any part of the track," states the rule, in KAR Title 810. "If a leading horse or any other horse in a race swerves or is ridden to either side so as to interfere with, intimidate, or impede any other horse or jockey, or to cause the same result, this action shall be deemed a foul. If a jockey strikes another horse or jockey, it is a foul. If in the opinion of the stewards a foul alters the finish of a race, an offending horse may be disqualified by the stewards."
Source: https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Inter ... 05861.html

Now, there is some controversy because this is THE race. The Grand Poobah, the Big Kahuna—the Kentucky Friggin’ Derby. Some have said this was a call to be made on a lesser race with less at stake, whereas others have said that’s exactly why the disqualification should stand: if jockeys think they can get away with it in the Kentucky Derby, they may be willing to try it anywhere.

I don’t particularly care. This is a controversy that doesn’t raise eyebrows about the treatment of the animals themselves, so it could serve as a helpful distraction from those otherwise terrible scandals. It may cause more people to watch the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes to see whether Maximum Security can pull those out and have a claim to a stolen Triple Crown.
I understand your viewpoint and accept it as fact, though I did not deliberate on the matter.
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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by JimVH » Mon May 06, 2019 11:53 am

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Re: Kentucky Derby

Post by durangopipe » Sat May 18, 2019 7:52 pm

War of Will was the best horse in the race.
Both of ‘em.
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