Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by gaining_age » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:39 pm

sweetandsour wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:15 pm
FredS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:59 am
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 pm
FTR - Mrs FredS works in the local university health care system and is scheduled to be vaccinated today. I don't plan to be vaccinated. Now or ever. That may change though.
Our daughter is a HCW in NY, and is scheduled to get the vaccine next week. When it becomes available ill probably get it. But right now I'm still needing the flu shot and shingles shots.
Now the shingles shot... that's worthy of a thread!
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by TNLawPiper » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:39 pm

AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:52 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:19 pm
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 pm
Are we going to talk about the woman in Alaska who had no known allergies but went into anaphylaxis after getting vaxxed?
And what did she do after recovering? She released a statement encouraging people to be vaccinated.
I wonder if there's a vaccination against stupidity? AFAIK there's no cure.
I know some folks who could benefit from it.
Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.

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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by AFRS » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:47 pm

sweetandsour wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:15 pm
FredS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:59 am
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 pm


FTR - Mrs FredS works in the local university health care system and is scheduled to be vaccinated today. I don't plan to be vaccinated. Now or ever. That may change though.
Our daughter is a HCW in NY, and is scheduled to get the vaccine next week. When it becomes available ill probably get it. But right now I'm still needing the flu shot and shingles shots.
Hmmm I think that post may be messed up.

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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by AFRS » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:47 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:39 pm
AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:52 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:19 pm
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 pm
Are we going to talk about the woman in Alaska who had no known allergies but went into anaphylaxis after getting vaxxed?
And what did she do after recovering? She released a statement encouraging people to be vaccinated.
I wonder if there's a vaccination against stupidity? AFAIK there's no cure.
I know some folks who could benefit from it.
No, you. <again> :clown:

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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by Del » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:51 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:09 pm
Stanley76 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:48 pm
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 pm
Are we going to talk about the woman in Alaska who had no known allergies but went into anaphylaxis after getting vaxxed?
I will.
Seat belts don't always work either.
Let's all get real here....

Every year, people die from getting flu shots. I believe that number is close to 200 per year. That is considered an acceptable risk, in order to protect tens of thousands of people who are at risk from the wild virus.

A whole lot more people are going to get the covid vaccine.... because our elite experts and politicians tell us that we must, in order to return to our normal lives.

So we should expect that about a thousand Americans -- more or less -- will die from reactions to the covid vaccine. If we try to vaccinate every American in the next 6 months, there will be about 6 people per day who will die from the covid shot.

This is a price we must endure if we want to get back to our jobs, and see our kids in school, and enjoy a few beers at the pub.
Off Topic
For perspective, we tolerate the killing of 2500 American children each and every day.

The media pushed panic and fear of covid upon us by telling sensational stories about a young, healthy person who died from the virus.

There will be similar panic spread against the vaccine.... stories of some individuals who died from the shot.

this game only benefits those who desire panic and fear. Ignore them all.
Last edited by Del on Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by AFRS » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:54 pm

Del wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:51 pm

Let's all get real here....

Every year, people die from getting flu shots. I believe that number is close to 200 per year. That is considered an acceptable risk, in order to protect tens of thousands of people who are at risk from the wild virus.

A whole lot more people are going to get the covid vaccine.... because our elite experts and politicians tell us that we must, in order to return to our normal lives.

So we should expect that about a thousand Americans -- more or less -- will die from reactions to the covid vaccine. If we try to vaccinate every American in the next 6 months, that will be about 6 people per day who will die from the shot.

This is a price we must endure if we want to get back to our jobs, and see our kids in school, and enjoy a few beers at the pub.
Off Topic
For perspective, we tolerate the killing of 2500 American children each and every day.
But Del, we don't know what the long term effects of this vaccine are. What happens 10 years down the road when (hypothetically) people break out with gross sores all over their body and there's no cure because it's their RNA that's been buggared with?

And then How will we know the vax is working? Will the survival rate go from 99.7% to 99.8?
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by Del » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:09 pm

AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:54 pm
But Del, we don't know what the long term effects of this vaccine are. What happens 10 years down the road when (hypothetically) people break out with gross sores all over their body and there's no cure because it's their RNA that's been buggared with?
I don't think that's how a vaccine works.
AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:54 pm
And then How will we know the vax is working? Will the survival rate go from 99.7% to 99.8?
Doesn't matter. All we need to do is to persuade/force the elite leaders and experts to say that it did work, and now we can go to a pub or a hockey game if we want to.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by AFRS » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:15 am

Del wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:09 pm
AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:54 pm
But Del, we don't know what the long term effects of this vaccine are. What happens 10 years down the road when (hypothetically) people break out with gross sores all over their body and there's no cure because it's their RNA that's been buggared with?
I don't think that's how a vaccine works.
AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:54 pm
And then How will we know the vax is working? Will the survival rate go from 99.7% to 99.8?
Doesn't matter. All we need to do is to persuade/force the elite leaders and experts to say that it did work, and now we can go to a pub or a hockey game if we want to.
It does.. this isn't a 'normal' vaccine. It's an mRNA vax. I changes your rna to force it to create the protein that Covid is made of. Your body then learns to identify and attack that protein...

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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by TNLawPiper » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:02 am

AFRS wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:15 am
Del wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:09 pm
AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:54 pm
But Del, we don't know what the long term effects of this vaccine are. What happens 10 years down the road when (hypothetically) people break out with gross sores all over their body and there's no cure because it's their RNA that's been buggared with?
I don't think that's how a vaccine works.
AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:54 pm
And then How will we know the vax is working? Will the survival rate go from 99.7% to 99.8?
Doesn't matter. All we need to do is to persuade/force the elite leaders and experts to say that it did work, and now we can go to a pub or a hockey game if we want to.
It does.. this isn't a 'normal' vaccine. It's an mRNA vax. I changes your rna to force it to create the protein that Covid is made of. Your body then learns to identify and attack that protein...
The CDC says it doesn’t affect your DNA. Where’s your proof that it does?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... asics.html
Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.

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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by TNLawPiper » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:05 am

AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:47 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:39 pm
AFRS wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:52 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:19 pm
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 pm
Are we going to talk about the woman in Alaska who had no known allergies but went into anaphylaxis after getting vaxxed?
And what did she do after recovering? She released a statement encouraging people to be vaccinated.
I wonder if there's a vaccination against stupidity? AFAIK there's no cure.
I know some folks who could benefit from it.
No, you. <again> :clown:
Your response makes no sense. If I wanted to call you stupid, I would have. You’re not stupid, you’re just misguided and an ass.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by CodeMonkey » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:43 pm

Maybe
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by tuttle » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:06 am

TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:18 pm
tuttle wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:58 am
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:30 pm
Roadmaster wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:09 pm
Stanley76 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:48 pm
AFRS wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 pm
Are we going to talk about the woman in Alaska who had no known allergies but went into anaphylaxis after getting vaxxed?
I will.
Seat belts don't always work either.
Generally speaking, seatbelts don't hurt you when you put them on.
Generally speaking, COVID-19 doesn't hurt you when you get it either.
Generally speaking, it doesn’t KILL you. There are plenty of folks seeking medical care or being hospitalized because of COVID. My co-worker, a spry 25-year-old, said he had flu-like symptoms for a week and still has brain fog in the morning nearly six weeks later.

I know five people who have died from it.
Maybe I should have said percentagely speaking?
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by tuttle » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:15 am

TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:21 pm
tuttle wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:04 pm
A small percentage of people receiving the vaccine have some bad reactions. Don't freak out.

A small percentage of people die from COVID-19. END THE WORLD!!!
This is kind of a silly response. A short reaction from a vaccine is vastly preferable to death. Show me where this vaccine is killing more than 3,000 people every single day, and maybe I’ll support your calls to avoid it.
I don't believe I've advocated for people to avoid the vaccine. I personally won't take it, and while I am rather comfortable mocking and deriding people who believe it is our Lord and Savior, I'm for freedom. Take it. Don't take it. Just don't force me and mine and we're cool, man.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by wosbald » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:54 am

+JMJ+

Vatican green-lights COVID vaccines, finds no ‘cooperation’ in abortion for users
Image

Image
The word "COVID-19" is reflected in a vaccine drop that dangles from a syringe needle in this illustration photo Nov. 9, 2020. (Credit: Dado Ruvic/Reuters via CNS)

ROME — After receiving what they said were “several requests for guidance” on the morality of the use of COVID-19 vaccines developed with cells derived from aborted fetuses, the Vatican’s doctrine office issued an explanatory note Monday giving the green light.

The vaccines in question are the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, which both used cell lines derived from fetuses aborted in the last century during confirmatory testing, but not in design, development, or production.

[…]

In its Dec. 21 note, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said “diverse and sometimes conflicting” statements from bishops, experts, and Catholic associations have raised further questions about the morality of the vaccine, which required clarity.

While clarifying that it is not competent to judge the safety and efficiency of the vaccines, the CDF said that in cases in which “ethically irreproachable Covid-19 vaccines” are not available, “it is morally acceptable to receive Covid-19 vaccines that have used cell lines from aborted fetuses in their research and production process.”

The reason for this, they said, is that the abortion from which the cell lines were harvested “is, on the part of those making use of the resulting vaccines, remote.”

Speaking of the “moral duty” to avoid what it terms a “passive material cooperation” in the abortion by using a product made with its cell lines, the department said this duty “is not obligatory if there is a grave danger, such as the otherwise uncontainable spread of a serious pathological agent,” in this case, COVID-19.

“It must therefore be considered that, in such a case, all vaccinations recognized as clinically safe and effective can be used in good conscience with the certain knowledge that the use of such vaccines does not constitute formal cooperation with the abortion from which the cells used in production of the vaccines derive,” they said.

However, the congregations clarified that while it judges the use of the vaccines as morally licit given the circumstances, this thumbs-up does not amount to an approval of abortion itself, or the use of cell lines derived from aborted fetuses in scientific testing.

Both pharmaceutical companies and governmental health agencies, then, are “encouraged to produce, approve, distribute and offer ethically acceptable vaccines that do not create problems of conscience for either health care providers or the people to be vaccinated.”

The Vatican stressed that receiving a vaccine is not a moral obligation, and therefore must be voluntary.

“The morality of vaccination depends not only on the duty to protect one’s own health, but also on the duty to pursue the common good,” they said, adding that in the absence of other means to stop or prevent the pandemic, the “common good” in this case might mean receiving the vaccine, “especially to protect the weakest and most exposed.”

For those who refuse to receive the vaccine for reasons of conscience, the Vatican said they are free to do so, but on the condition that they “must do their utmost to avoid, by other prophylactic means and appropriate behavior, becoming vehicles for the transmission of the infectious agent.”

“In particular, they must avoid any risk to the health of those who cannot be vaccinated for medical or other reasons, and who are the most vulnerable,” they said.

Stressing the importance of equal access to the vaccines, the Vatican said there is a “moral imperative” for the pharmaceutical industry, governments, and international organizations “to ensure that vaccines, which are effective and safe from a medical point of view, as well as ethically acceptable, are also accessible to the poorest countries in a manner that is not costly for them.”

“The lack of access to vaccines, otherwise, would become another sign of discrimination and injustice that condemns poor countries to continue living in health, economic and social poverty,” they said.

Signed by the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Spanish Cardinal Luis Ladaria, the noted was approved by Pope Francis, who during a Dec. 17 meeting with Ladaria read it and “ordered its publication.”

ImageImage

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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by FredS » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:27 am

tuttle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:15 am
TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:21 pm
tuttle wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:04 pm
A small percentage of people receiving the vaccine have some bad reactions. Don't freak out.

A small percentage of people die from COVID-19. END THE WORLD!!!
This is kind of a silly response. A short reaction from a vaccine is vastly preferable to death. Show me where this vaccine is killing more than 3,000 people every single day, and maybe I’ll support your calls to avoid it.
I don't believe I've advocated for people to avoid the vaccine. I personally won't take it, and while I am rather comfortable mocking and deriding people who believe it is our Lord and Savior, I'm for freedom. Take it. Don't take it. Just don't force me and mine and we're cool, man.
Here's the deal - - - Nobody (nobody who's commented here anyway) believes a vaccine is our Lord and Savior.
but
Have you ever thought maybe our Lord hates death? Hates it so much He overcame it. Hates it so much He sent a cure so we may delay it a little?
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by tuttle » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:59 am

FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:27 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:15 am
TNLawPiper wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:21 pm
tuttle wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:04 pm
A small percentage of people receiving the vaccine have some bad reactions. Don't freak out.

A small percentage of people die from COVID-19. END THE WORLD!!!
This is kind of a silly response. A short reaction from a vaccine is vastly preferable to death. Show me where this vaccine is killing more than 3,000 people every single day, and maybe I’ll support your calls to avoid it.
I don't believe I've advocated for people to avoid the vaccine. I personally won't take it, and while I am rather comfortable mocking and deriding people who believe it is our Lord and Savior, I'm for freedom. Take it. Don't take it. Just don't force me and mine and we're cool, man.
Here's the deal - - - Nobody (nobody who's commented here anyway) believes a vaccine is our Lord and Savior.
but
Have you ever thought maybe our Lord hates death? Hates it so much He overcame it. Hates it so much He sent a cure so we may delay it a little?
I haven't mocked anyone here. I'm making cultural commentary. And again, for the umpteenth time, I'm not unaware of the positive benefits of vaccines nor am I against anyone getting a vaccine. I'm not against me and mine getting a vaccine to inoculate against something horrible (if we so choose).

Insofar as our culture and technocrats have been signaling hard and strong their desire to get everyone to obey them through coercion and mandates, and with the crapshow of lockdowns and masking as evidence to the fact, my main drive in my comments about this vaccine boils down to this: I'm against forced vaccines for COVID-19 and any steps leading to that destination.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by AnungUnRama » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:41 am

tuttle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:59 am
I'm against forced vaccines for COVID-19 and any steps leading to that destination.
^^^^^^^This. Emphatically, absolutely, without question THIS.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by FredS » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:06 am

AnungUnRama wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:59 am
I'm against forced vaccines for COVID-19 and any steps leading to that destination.
^^^^^^^This. Emphatically, absolutely, without question THIS.
Because you're going to live in your own cave the rest of your life?

We (your fellow citizens) have mandated and forced hundreds of impositions on your freedom for our good rather than yours. Your employers have done the same in the name of protecting their company as well as your coworkers and customers. I have not heard of any governmental agency forcing these new vaccines on anyone but if covid and other novel virus' continue to be a problem over the coming years, and if a vaccine is proven safe and effective over the next couple years, we may very well decide it's in our interest to require you and your children to be vaccinated if you wish to move about outside your home.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by tuttle » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:30 am

FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:06 am
AnungUnRama wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:59 am
I'm against forced vaccines for COVID-19 and any steps leading to that destination.
^^^^^^^This. Emphatically, absolutely, without question THIS.
Because you're going to live in your own cave the rest of your life?

We (your fellow citizens) have mandated and forced hundreds of impositions on your freedom for our good rather than yours. Your employers have done the same in the name of protecting their company as well as your coworkers and customers. I have not heard of any governmental agency forcing these new vaccines on anyone but if covid and other novel virus' continue to be a problem over the coming years, and if a vaccine is proven safe and effective over the next couple years, we may very well decide it's in our interest to require you and your children to be vaccinated if you wish to move about outside your home.
All that is to be seen. I haven't heard of any agencies forcing anyone to take the vaccine but I have heard a lot of people signal such a thing should happen, or at the very least make arguments that it'll never happen and when it does I guess you'll go live in a cave...

If a town contracts the bubonic plague and half of them die and the other half are looking all swelly in the pits then it behooves the government to step in, lock it down, vax the lot of them, even against their will. That's a proper use of emergency powers. When there is an actual, you know, emergency. The problem with COVID is that it isn't the bubonic plague but it's being treated as such.

I have no reason to believe the flu vaccine is either ineffective (for whatever particular strain it's combating) or unsafe. But I don't take it because it's not the bubonic plague and I'm not likely going to drop dead in the street from the flu. Maybe I'll change my tune when I'm up in years and the likelihood of me keeling over from the flu is higher. I have nothing against it.

Same with Covid. For right now I see no reason for me or mine to take it. If contracted, the likelihood of death is less than 1%. More people would know that information if our overlords wouldn't censor it at every turn. More people might take those real scientific numbers seriously if every political and cultural influencer didn't mock and deride people who discuss it as Anti-science and Covid-deniers.

All that aside, when I'm an old man and my likelihood of death from Covid (as opposed to death, ahem, with Covid) increases a few percentage points, I'll be happy to consider such a safe and healthy vaccine, especially after it's been out there for 20-30 years instead of 2 weeks. All the more reason to feel good about it.

But removing people's freedom to move, assemble, travel, buy/sell, or any other thing because they don't have their COVID ID Card stamped APPROVED? Well, percentages of people dying COVID associated deaths might go up.
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Re: Will you take a Covid 19 vaccine?

Post by FredS » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:10 pm

tuttle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:30 am
FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:06 am
AnungUnRama wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:59 am
I'm against forced vaccines for COVID-19 and any steps leading to that destination.
^^^^^^^This. Emphatically, absolutely, without question THIS.
Because you're going to live in your own cave the rest of your life?

We (your fellow citizens) have mandated and forced hundreds of impositions on your freedom for our good rather than yours. Your employers have done the same in the name of protecting their company as well as your coworkers and customers. I have not heard of any governmental agency forcing these new vaccines on anyone but if covid and other novel virus' continue to be a problem over the coming years, and if a vaccine is proven safe and effective over the next couple years, we may very well decide it's in our interest to require you and your children to be vaccinated if you wish to move about outside your home.
All that is to be seen. I haven't heard of any agencies forcing anyone to take the vaccine but I have heard a lot of people signal such a thing should happen, or at the very least make arguments that it'll never happen and when it does I guess you'll go live in a cave...

If a town contracts the bubonic plague and half of them die and the other half are looking all swelly in the pits then it behooves the government to step in, lock it down, vax the lot of them, even against their will. That's a proper use of emergency powers. When there is an actual, you know, emergency. The problem with COVID is that it isn't the bubonic plague but it's being treated as such.

I have no reason to believe the flu vaccine is either ineffective (for whatever particular strain it's combating) or unsafe. But I don't take it because it's not the bubonic plague and I'm not likely going to drop dead in the street from the flu. Maybe I'll change my tune when I'm up in years and the likelihood of me keeling over from the flu is higher. I have nothing against it.

Same with Covid. For right now I see no reason for me or mine to take it. If contracted, the likelihood of death is less than 1%. More people would know that information if our overlords wouldn't censor it at every turn. More people might take those real scientific numbers seriously if every political and cultural influencer didn't mock and deride people who discuss it as Anti-science and Covid-deniers.

All that aside, when I'm an old man and my likelihood of death from Covid (as opposed to death, ahem, with Covid) increases a few percentage points, I'll be happy to consider such a safe and healthy vaccine, especially after it's been out there for 20-30 years instead of 2 weeks. All the more reason to feel good about it.

But removing people's freedom to move, assemble, travel, buy/sell, or any other thing because they don't have their COVID ID Card stamped APPROVED? Well, percentages of people dying COVID associated deaths might go up.
We're largely in agreement here but for two things:
- Are you calling me a geezer? You mentioned old people and how the vaccine may be more appropriate for them twice in your reply. :twisted: :D :twisted:
I suppose I should be glad you didn't mention overweight, outta shape smokers.

- You mentioned that if "half the town" died it'd be appropriate for Uncle Joe to step in and mandate the vaccination. Would it also be proper if 49% died? How about 40%? 10%? 5%? Who gets to decide? This is where the whole thing get's muddy. Nobody trusts "the numbers" put out by the government or the media. Many - like you, Affers, Del, AnungUnRama, Slowtoke, and others - think they're inflated to present more of an urgency for the government to force lockdowns, face coverings, or mandatory vaccination. To scare us into giving up a little liberty for safety. I don't trust the numbers simply because I know how the healthcare bureaucracy runs. I don't trust them provide accurate information - especially if padding "the number" earns them more compensation, or less blame, or financial burden. I do think the nurses, docs, and even politicians individually, have our best interests at heart though.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

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