Would you fly on a Boeing 737Max

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AFRS
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Re: Would you fly on a Boeing 737Max

Post by AFRS » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:15 am

Steverino wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:00 pm
No. Of course, I wouldn't fly on any other plane either. I've flown before and don't really mind it but it's the airports I can't deal with. At my age I've given up flying. I'll have my wife or my son drive me.
Agreed. My dad was in the Aeronautical industry. I first flew when I was 5 and have flown regularly all my life. I no longer do. As, like you, the B.S. at the airports is more than I want to deal with.

One exception: Israel. Amazing security experience. Anyone want to hear my story .. I'll post it here.

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Re: Would you fly on a Boeing 737Max

Post by Benton629 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:23 am

Yes, if it is flown by any pilot from a US Airline.

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Re: Would you fly on a Boeing 737Max

Post by joegoat » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:17 pm

Benton629 wrote:Yes, if it is flown by any pilot from a US Airline.
The real pilots and genuine aviators are retiring fast. There are lots of pilots flying today's airplanes that would flounder if it all went wrong. The Sulleys are becoming rare. It takes someone who really understands the aircraft systems and flight theory to land safely with multiple system failures. Airline pilots are put through issues in the simulator, but this just isn't the same as a real world issue that has never happened before, one that doesn't have a checklist. One that wasn't supposed to ever happen.
I see it every day from my desk that many flight crews are less than experts on their aircraft. When we defer a system that makes their job easier, they complain.
We were forced to defer both flight management computers on a plane several months back. This is a legal deferral, but prevents the crew from using GPS navigation and they have to use radio navigation. Without waxing eloquent, it is basically the same as needing to put each town you'll have to drive through to reach your final destination as you pass through them instead of just putting the final destination in your GPS when you leave. They just have to change a radio frequency with a knob and adjust their heading with another knob throughout the flight.
We had crews trying to refuse the aircraft because of this!
As airplanes have become more modern they have removed more responsibility and work from the crew to prevent crew error. This is a major reason why flying has become so much safer. After most jet liners are at 10,000 feet, the auto pilot is flying and the pilots are just tweaking altitude, heading, and air speed with knobs and buttons.
There once were three or more people flying the plane. Computers have replaced all but two of them and we're at the point where it could go down to one in the flight deck and someone else monitoring remotely. Several business jets are rated for one pilot already.
The issue with the 737 is indeed with taking a very old design and building on it until it barely resembles the original. At some point, the original is gone and you need to call it something new.
If you're building a tower over several decades using a different construction company and design every so often, the tiny flaws in one level compile with the tiny flaws in the next. As you get higher the flaws stack up until they interact in such a way that something catastrophic happens. I would like to see the FAA redefine the point at which an aircraft model stops being a new generation and becomes a new model.


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Re: Would you fly on a Boeing 737Max

Post by Benton629 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:34 pm

joegoat wrote:
Benton629 wrote:Yes, if it is flown by any pilot from a US Airline.
The real pilots and genuine aviators are retiring fast. There are lots of pilots flying today's airplanes that would flounder if it all went wrong. The Sulleys are becoming rare. It takes someone who really understands the aircraft systems and flight theory to land safely with multiple system failures. Airline pilots are put through issues in the simulator, but this just isn't the same as a real world issue that has never happened before, one that doesn't have a checklist. One that wasn't supposed to ever happen.
I see it every day from my desk that many flight crews are less than experts on their aircraft. When we defer a system that makes their job easier, they complain.
We were forced to defer both flight management computers on a plane several months back. This is a legal deferral, but prevents the crew from using GPS navigation and they have to use radio navigation. Without waxing eloquent, it is basically the same as needing to put each town you'll have to drive through to reach your final destination as you pass through them instead of just putting the final destination in your GPS when you leave. They just have to change a radio frequency with a knob and adjust their heading with another knob throughout the flight.
We had crews trying to refuse the aircraft because of this!
As airplanes have become more modern they have removed more responsibility and work from the crew to prevent crew error. This is a major reason why flying has become so much safer. After most jet liners are at 10,000 feet, the auto pilot is flying and the pilots are just tweaking altitude, heading, and air speed with knobs and buttons.
There once were three or more people flying the plane. Computers have replaced all but two of them and we're at the point where it could go down to one in the flight deck and someone else monitoring remotely. Several business jets are rated for one pilot already.
The issue with the 737 is indeed with taking a very old design and building on it until it barely resembles the original. At some point, the original is gone and you need to call it something new.
If you're building a tower over several decades using a different construction company and design every so often, the tiny flaws in one level compile with the tiny flaws in the next. As you get higher the flaws stack up until they interact in such a way that something catastrophic happens. I would like to see the FAA redefine the point at which an aircraft model stops being a new generation and becomes a new model.


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Hey Joe, that’s my work rant!

Seriously, it’s a real issue. At my previous employer we ( including pilots ) saw three new hires who would be our next accident.

I spoke at length to Safety and Training to no avail. I even spoke to the company owner.

Well, we had the accident we all knew was coming. Fortunately, it was a solo flight with no pax.
We lost nearly every contract and I found myself unemployed.

I hear this same rant from anyone who’s been in aviation a few years and it’s everywhere. Even the regulators cited “unanticipated crew response” in the Max turmoil.


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Re: Would you fly on a Boeing 737Max

Post by jruegg » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:38 pm

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