More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

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More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by JimVH » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:53 am

Full Article: New Bill Seeks to Dramatically Increase Federal Taxes on Tobacco Products

This would bring a 1650% increase in pipe tobacco taxes.
Tobacco Business Magazine wrote:Here’s how the tax parity, as defined by Section 5701(g) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, could change for each product category:

Small Cigarettes: From $50.33 to $100.66
Large Cigarettes: From $105.69 to $211.38
Roll-Your-Own Tobacco: From $24.78, amended to $49.56
Pipe Tobacco Tobacco: From $2.8311 cents to $49.56
Smokeless Tobacco: In paragraph (1) of Section 5701(e), from $1.51 to $26.84; paragraph (2), from $50.33 cents to $10.74
Small Cigars: From $50.33 to $100.66
Large Cigars: From 52.75 percent to $49.56 per pound and a proportionate tax at the like rate on all fractional parts of a pound but not less than 10.066 cents per cigar
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by adauria » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:01 pm

Disgusting. Here's hoping it fails (along with the rest of the tax hikes).

I wish it was clear what quantity that pipe tobacco tax applies to in the article. Is that per pound?

-Andrew

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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by 424cat » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:27 pm

Ammunition and Tobacco. Taxes is the easiest way regulate both
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by JMG » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:33 pm

Already wrote my reps about it.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by tuttle » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:24 pm

Holy crap!

This had better be an April Fool's joke...
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by daveinlax » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:27 pm

I can’t believe tax parity and a mail order ban didn’t happen years ago. I’ve been saying this for years, 99% of “pipe tobacco” sold is RYO cigarette tobacco relabeled to avoid taxes. Did anyone think Big Tobacco was going to let this happen? :pipe:

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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by SlowToke » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:10 pm

It's sad. Thankfully, I'm set for the rest of my life barring a house fire or mold infestation. If this passes, it would likely be the proverbial nail in the coffin.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by Sir Moose » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:14 pm

As if that wasn't enough...

Washington State Lawmakers Consider 1,000% Tax Increase on Tobacco Businesses
Lawmakers in Washington are exploring an unusual way to affect nicotine consumption and increase taxes on tobacco products sold in the state. Instead of increasing the excise tax rate, which is currently $3.025 per pack of 20 cigarettes, sponsors of HB 1550 are suggesting increasing the Business & Occupations (B&O) tax on tobacco manufacturers and wholesalers by 1,000 percent.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by joegoat » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:50 pm

There will be many more home growers. Excessively taxing or outright banning something only creates a black market.

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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by Del » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:20 pm

joegoat wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:50 pm
There will be many more home growers. Excessively taxing or outright banning something only creates a black market.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati - When all else fails, play dead.
Marijuana will be legal over-the-counter everywhere. And tobacco will be black market contraband.

This is bizarro, just like everything else in soviet amerika.

Might as well talk about the virtues of race- and gender-identity lessons for grade-schoolers.... and the evils of taking your children to church.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by durangopipe » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:43 pm

Unbelievable.

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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by tuttle » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:23 am

There is a link from the article that makes it easy to contact your Senators about it.

here it is:

https://oneclickpolitics.global.ssl.fas ... o_id=12153
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by FredS » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:31 am

Del wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:20 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:50 pm
There will be many more home growers. Excessively taxing or outright banning something only creates a black market.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati - When all else fails, play dead.
Marijuana will be legal over-the-counter everywhere. And tobacco will be black market contraband.

This is bizarro, just like everything else in soviet amerika.
The point you miss is that both products will be legal, and both products are/will be heavily taxed. "Sin taxes" have always been a popular way to encourage abstinence on the one hand, and increase public welfare on the backs of those who don't abstain on the other hand. Tobacco, alcohol, gambling, and weed are all yuge money-makers for government.

As we see here in the high country, there's still a black market for un-taxed weed and there will one for tobacco when taxes put the legal stuff out of reach of some. I can also see big tobacco aligning themselves with natives in order to create a gray market and sell on their reservations just like big gaming does with casinos. In CO, it's legal to grow a limited amount of pot for 'personal use' and we might see the market offering grow systems and even home topping and infusion kits for diy pipe tobacco grown in your basement or bedroom closet. How about 'community gardens' in urban areas? Maybe you could hit up the farm stand for some tomatoes and a few unprocessed leaves every Saturday morning? I envision all sorts of scenarios for the future of tobacco, and in none of them do I see it going away.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by Del » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:24 am

FredS wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:31 am
Del wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:20 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:50 pm
There will be many more home growers. Excessively taxing or outright banning something only creates a black market.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati - When all else fails, play dead.
Marijuana will be legal over-the-counter everywhere. And tobacco will be black market contraband.

This is bizarro, just like everything else in soviet amerika.
The point you miss is that both products will be legal, and both products are/will be heavily taxed. "Sin taxes" have always been a popular way to encourage abstinence on the one hand, and increase public welfare on the backs of those who don't abstain on the other hand. Tobacco, alcohol, gambling, and weed are all yuge money-makers for government.

As we see here in the high country, there's still a black market for un-taxed weed and there will one for tobacco when taxes put the legal stuff out of reach of some. I can also see big tobacco aligning themselves with natives in order to create a gray market and sell on their reservations just like big gaming does with casinos. In CO, it's legal to grow a limited amount of pot for 'personal use' and we might see the market offering grow systems and even home topping and infusion kits for diy pipe tobacco grown in your basement or bedroom closet. How about 'community gardens' in urban areas? Maybe you could hit up the farm stand for some tomatoes and a few unprocessed leaves every Saturday morning? I envision all sorts of scenarios for the future of tobacco, and in none of them do I see it going away.
Simple truth is that it doesn't matter whether the product is illegal or simply taxed at an onerous rate. Both result in vigorous black market trafficking.

What we will lose are the legal jobs and producers of premium products. Like we lost McClelland.

Rusty liked to remind us that the European manufacturers of premium pipe tobacco were also dependent on the American market for adequate volume, because Europe pipe tobacco is already taxed at onerous rates.
===================================

I need to get JMG to teach me how he cured tobacco and rolled home-made cigars in PNG.... Just so I have something to pass down to my grandchildren.

Customs of tobacco enjoyment have evolved quite a bit over the centuries since Columbus met a native chief smoking a monster stogie.

If we have to go back to pioneer days and homegrown tobacco, perhaps making snuff will return as a cottage industry.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by Hovannes » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:33 am

I wonder if the cartels will start black marketing in Maltese Falcon and Squadron Leader?
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by JMG » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:39 am

adauria wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:01 pm
Disgusting. Here's hoping it fails (along with the rest of the tax hikes).

I wish it was clear what quantity that pipe tobacco tax applies to in the article. Is that per pound?

-Andrew
Not sure it would matter since we have to buy it from a distributor and they certainly will not be buying in small enough quantities to fly under the tax increase. Thus, it will be reflected in our cost.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by JMG » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:44 am

Del wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:24 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:31 am
Del wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:20 pm
joegoat wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:50 pm
There will be many more home growers. Excessively taxing or outright banning something only creates a black market.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati - When all else fails, play dead.
Marijuana will be legal over-the-counter everywhere. And tobacco will be black market contraband.

This is bizarro, just like everything else in soviet amerika.
The point you miss is that both products will be legal, and both products are/will be heavily taxed. "Sin taxes" have always been a popular way to encourage abstinence on the one hand, and increase public welfare on the backs of those who don't abstain on the other hand. Tobacco, alcohol, gambling, and weed are all yuge money-makers for government.

As we see here in the high country, there's still a black market for un-taxed weed and there will one for tobacco when taxes put the legal stuff out of reach of some. I can also see big tobacco aligning themselves with natives in order to create a gray market and sell on their reservations just like big gaming does with casinos. In CO, it's legal to grow a limited amount of pot for 'personal use' and we might see the market offering grow systems and even home topping and infusion kits for diy pipe tobacco grown in your basement or bedroom closet. How about 'community gardens' in urban areas? Maybe you could hit up the farm stand for some tomatoes and a few unprocessed leaves every Saturday morning? I envision all sorts of scenarios for the future of tobacco, and in none of them do I see it going away.
Simple truth is that it doesn't matter whether the product is illegal or simply taxed at an onerous rate. Both result in vigorous black market trafficking.

What we will lose are the legal jobs and producers of premium products. Like we lost McClelland.

Rusty liked to remind us that the European manufacturers of premium pipe tobacco were also dependent on the American market for adequate volume, because Europe pipe tobacco is already taxed at onerous rates.
===================================

I need to get JMG to teach me how he cured tobacco and rolled home-made cigars in PNG.... Just so I have something to pass down to my grandchildren.

Customs of tobacco enjoyment have evolved quite a bit over the centuries since Columbus met a native chief smoking a monster stogie.

If we have to go back to pioneer days and homegrown tobacco, perhaps making snuff will return as a cottage industry.
It was easy to grow in Hewa because the ground was so stinking fertile and we had constant temps and plenty of rain year round. Here will be a different story. As far as techniques, check out fairtradetobacco.com. They have a wealth of information.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by coco » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:31 am

I'm guessing this will put a bowl of tobacco at about $3-4. However, you won't actually be able to buy the tobacc at any price (legally), since this will shut down the blenders.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by Jocose » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:37 am

I didnt read the OP in fear of getting upset.
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Re: More Tobacco Bad, Taxes Good Legislation

Post by coco » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:37 am

Image
There are many terrible attributes of the lowly cob. Not the least of them is that it makes you look like a doof.

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