Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

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Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Jocose » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:54 pm

Bill Gates Plans to Spray The Atmosphere with Chalk to Combat Climate Change.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?!?!


https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen ... 745332793b
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by wosbald » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:09 pm

+JMJ+

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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by TheShepherd » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:49 pm

Jocose wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:54 pm
Bill Gates Plans to Spray The Atmosphere with Chalk to Combat Climate Change.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?!?!


https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen ... 745332793b
Well this is an interesting free-market attempt at responding to the concerns.

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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Del » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:07 am

TheShepherd wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:49 pm
Jocose wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:54 pm
Bill Gates Plans to Spray The Atmosphere with Chalk to Combat Climate Change.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?!?!


https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen ... 745332793b
Well this is an interesting free-market attempt at responding to the concerns.
You understand that the "free market" of tech mega-billionaires is exactly like socialism, right?

The only difference is whether the oligarchs achieve power through building billions in wealth -- or by winning rigged elections and then selling themselves out to billionaires.
======================================

In the 70's, the mega-dire eco-catastrophe warning was that global cooling was the existential threat. Air pollution was going to block half of the sun from the surface of the earth. Famines were going to wipe out much of the human population. Three-quarters of the world's species were going to become extinct.

The answer was more government control, of course. It always is. This is how the EPA was established.

I do appreciate the efforts and our air is much cleaner now. We don't have to wear masks in our cities, like they do in China.

Oh, wait....
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by tuttle » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:14 am

This is a Marvel movie. Bill Gates is a supervillain.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by DepartedLight » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:29 am

DL Jake

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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by coco » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:08 am

The biggest difference between Earth and Venus is the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Try it there first, maybe.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Jester » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:17 am

coco wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:08 am
The biggest difference between Earth and Venus is the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Try it there first, maybe.
That's some Elon like thinking there.
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Would it be easier to cool down Venus or warm up Mars?
Mars -80°
Venus 850°
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Sir Moose » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:56 am

I suspect the solar power companies are going to have something to say about it.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by durangopipe » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:08 am

I’m with you on this one, Jo.
“Geo-engineering” is like playing God.

We just don’t know enough.
It’s the very definition of hubris.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by coco » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:13 am

Jester wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:17 am
coco wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:08 am
The biggest difference between Earth and Venus is the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Try it there first, maybe.
That's some Elon like thinking there.
Image

Would it be easier to cool down Venus or warm up Mars?
Mars -80°
Venus 850°
Mars doesn't have much of an atmosphere. Taking all the extra carbon dioxide from Earth and sending it to Mars would probably raise the temperature nicely. CO2 is like a warm, fuzzy blanket. Two birds, one stone?

I think Venus would be the best choice for the Earth cooling experiment, since it is effectively Earth with lots of greenhouse gasses. There are problems, of course. Venus is a long way away. Not much can get close to the surface without getting as melty as Dali's clocks. The project would be pretty expensive. Nothing Elon's engineers can't solve, though.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by coco » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:23 am

Part of the question is whether or not we should do a feasibility study. Should we develop the technology just in case we need it as a last resort? The problem is that once the technology is developed, someone might actually want to use it. The atomic bomb "solved" a problem and simultaneously created far more problems. Humans are not very good at seeing the implications of their actions in the long-run.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Jester » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:01 am

coco wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:23 am
Part of the question is whether or not we should do a feasibility study. Should we develop the technology just in case we need it as a last resort? The problem is that once the technology is developed, someone might actually want to use it. The atomic bomb "solved" a problem and simultaneously created far more problems. Humans are not very good at seeing the implications of their actions in the long-run.
The problem here is that people already have been saying we are past the point of using last resorts.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Sir Moose » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:20 am

This is essentially nuclear winter without all that pesky radiation, right? Wasn't nuclear winter supposed to be a bad thing?
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by coco » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:56 am

Sir Moose wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:20 am
This is essentially nuclear winter without all that pesky radiation, right? Wasn't nuclear winter supposed to be a bad thing?
Not if it exactly offset the rise in temperature... and if there were no unexpected side effects... and everything worked exactly as planned,,, and
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by coco » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:11 am

Jester wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:01 am
coco wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:23 am
Part of the question is whether or not we should do a feasibility study. Should we develop the technology just in case we need it as a last resort? The problem is that once the technology is developed, someone might actually want to use it. The atomic bomb "solved" a problem and simultaneously created far more problems. Humans are not very good at seeing the implications of their actions in the long-run.
The problem here is that people already have been saying we are past the point of using last resorts.
Perhaps we are, in the sense that the system is already too destabilized to recover.

Perhaps we aren't.

Part of the trouble is that we don't have a lot of experience with what happens when CO2 levels are raised on an Earthlike planet.* It would help if we could find a few hundred perfectly Earthlike planets and then raise the CO2 levels on them and see what happens. From this data we could make theories about what it takes to hurt a planet like Earth. The data could then be applied to our own situation.

Sadly, we are stuck with just feeling our way through this one. All we have are educated guesses about what might happen.

I point this out because there are a lot of people who are very confident that greenhouse emissions will certainly kill us all very soon. There are also a lot of people who believe that humans simply are unable do anything to change the weather on earth. Both sides would do well to realize that we simply cannot say for sure what will happen. We don't know. This has never happened before.

Both sides need to commit themselves to looking at existing data and models rather than believing whatever rhetoric their political party is spewing this week. Climate change could REALLY be a problem, and it bears further investigation. It is important enough that we shouldn't let ourselves be swayed by political power grabs.





*Though Venus might be a clue.
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Del » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:24 pm

Chalk is limestone -- calcium carbonate. Calcium + H2O + CO2.

So let's bring up trillions of tons of CO2 that is trapped in the lithosphere and spread it all over the biosphere. Add in all of the extra CO2 released by the fossil fuels needed to mine, process and distribute the chalk.

The math isn't working out on this one....
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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Stanley76 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:58 pm

Acts 2:20
"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by TheShepherd » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:08 pm

Del wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:07 am
You understand that the "free market" of tech mega-billionaires is exactly like socialism, right?

The only difference is whether the oligarchs achieve power through building billions in wealth -- or by winning rigged elections and then selling themselves out to billionaires.
I'm not following you- I don't understand how financial investments by companies are like "socialism".

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Re: Dimming the Sun: What could go wrong?

Post by Del » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:26 am

TheShepherd wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:08 pm
Del wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:07 am
You understand that the "free market" of tech mega-billionaires is exactly like socialism, right?

The only difference is whether the oligarchs achieve power through building billions in wealth -- or by winning rigged elections and then selling themselves out to billionaires.
I'm not following you- I don't understand how financial investments by companies are like "socialism".
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