Talk to me about crypto!

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Cleon » Tue May 11, 2021 11:41 am

adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
The concept of cryptocurrency (as infosec guy I hate that "crypto" has become shorthand for "cryptocurrency," but that horse has left the barn) is very interesting as an example of the potential of blockchain technology. I understand the concepts and technical aspects of it pretty well. I understand the desire and see the compelling points being made by the zealots. I have just stayed the hell away from it like it's investment poison.

Could I have bought in years ago? I was certainly aware of it. I just didn't believe in it as a long-term play back then, and I still don't. I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth. I might even believe that it WILL eventually be an investible asset class instead of a speculative roller coaster, at least once it really gets the backing it needs. Today it's very impractical to actually use cryptocurrency for purchases (other than ransomware and black market items) - it's just being used as a casino bet. Right now, though, investment poison for me.

I also think NFTs are beginning to expose to people how hollow and valueless cryptocurrency really is. Of course, people are still buying up NFTs like they're candy, so apparently there are enough people who want to own the "original" nyan cat or whatever. I guess I also feel the same way about fine art collecting, and that isn't slowing down either.

Here's also 2 important differences between fiat currency and cryptocurrency - fiat currency can be used to pay taxes, and (more importantly), there's a massive military backing fiat currency (along with the rest of the government). Will governments eventually "print" or otherwise create so much fait currency ex nihilo that the government backing it no longer matters? Maybe, but it'll take a while (though the political class seems to be trying hard to rush this lately).

Maybe I'm a luddite on this one, but it's still a huge pass for me.

-Andrew
I'm trying to figure out how cryptocurrency attracts people who then assign it value. It has to be attractive somehow. A catchy name (dogecoin). A cool logo (dogecoin again). A celebrity endorsement (Elon Musk).
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by sweetandsour » Tue May 11, 2021 12:37 pm

adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
The concept of cryptocurrency (as infosec guy I hate that "crypto" has become shorthand for "cryptocurrency," but that horse has left the barn) is very interesting as an example of the potential of blockchain technology. I understand the concepts and technical aspects of it pretty well. I understand the desire and see the compelling points being made by the zealots. I have just stayed the hell away from it like it's investment poison.

Could I have bought in years ago? I was certainly aware of it. I just didn't believe in it as a long-term play back then, and I still don't. I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth. I might even believe that it WILL eventually be an investible asset class instead of a speculative roller coaster, at least once it really gets the backing it needs. Today it's very impractical to actually use cryptocurrency for purchases (other than ransomware and black market items) - it's just being used as a casino bet. Right now, though, investment poison for me.

I also think NFTs are beginning to expose to people how hollow and valueless cryptocurrency really is. Of course, people are still buying up NFTs like they're candy, so apparently there are enough people who want to own the "original" nyan cat or whatever. I guess I also feel the same way about fine art collecting, and that isn't slowing down either.

Here's also 2 important differences between fiat currency and cryptocurrency - fiat currency can be used to pay taxes, and (more importantly), there's a massive military backing fiat currency (along with the rest of the government). Will governments eventually "print" or otherwise create so much fait currency ex nihilo that the government backing it no longer matters? Maybe, but it'll take a while (though the political class seems to be trying hard to rush this lately).

Maybe I'm a luddite on this one, but it's still a huge pass for me.

-Andrew
+1.
It's blue sky.
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by ChildOfGod » Tue May 11, 2021 1:26 pm

It’s for fun right now. Could get more real someday. As Warren Buffet says, be “fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful”. This is extremely concise but very wise investing advice. Right now, I’m “fearful” with crypto currency but may pounce on some when it goes low... like real low.
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Del » Tue May 11, 2021 6:23 pm

sweetandsour wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:37 pm
adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
The concept of cryptocurrency (as infosec guy I hate that "crypto" has become shorthand for "cryptocurrency," but that horse has left the barn) is very interesting as an example of the potential of blockchain technology. I understand the concepts and technical aspects of it pretty well. I understand the desire and see the compelling points being made by the zealots. I have just stayed the hell away from it like it's investment poison.

Could I have bought in years ago? I was certainly aware of it. I just didn't believe in it as a long-term play back then, and I still don't. I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth. I might even believe that it WILL eventually be an investible asset class instead of a speculative roller coaster, at least once it really gets the backing it needs. Today it's very impractical to actually use cryptocurrency for purchases (other than ransomware and black market items) - it's just being used as a casino bet. Right now, though, investment poison for me.

I also think NFTs are beginning to expose to people how hollow and valueless cryptocurrency really is. Of course, people are still buying up NFTs like they're candy, so apparently there are enough people who want to own the "original" nyan cat or whatever. I guess I also feel the same way about fine art collecting, and that isn't slowing down either.

Here's also 2 important differences between fiat currency and cryptocurrency - fiat currency can be used to pay taxes, and (more importantly), there's a massive military backing fiat currency (along with the rest of the government). Will governments eventually "print" or otherwise create so much fait currency ex nihilo that the government backing it no longer matters? Maybe, but it'll take a while (though the political class seems to be trying hard to rush this lately).

Maybe I'm a luddite on this one, but it's still a huge pass for me.

-Andrew
+1.
It's blue sky.
It seems more like gold.

There's a finite amount of it, and people are willing to assign a value to it and trade value for it.

Or perhaps it like a Gold ETF, traded on the stock market. It is virtual like cryptocurrency, and yet has a fixed number of shares and a market-assigned value (linked to the trading price of real gold). People agree to trade value for it.

But it sure feels like Beanie Babies or Pokemon cards.
G.K. Chesterton — 'It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged.'

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by sweetandsour » Tue May 11, 2021 7:12 pm

Del wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 6:23 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:37 pm
adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
The concept of cryptocurrency (as infosec guy I hate that "crypto" has become shorthand for "cryptocurrency," but that horse has left the barn) is very interesting as an example of the potential of blockchain technology. I understand the concepts and technical aspects of it pretty well. I understand the desire and see the compelling points being made by the zealots. I have just stayed the hell away from it like it's investment poison.

Could I have bought in years ago? I was certainly aware of it. I just didn't believe in it as a long-term play back then, and I still don't. I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth. I might even believe that it WILL eventually be an investible asset class instead of a speculative roller coaster, at least once it really gets the backing it needs. Today it's very impractical to actually use cryptocurrency for purchases (other than ransomware and black market items) - it's just being used as a casino bet. Right now, though, investment poison for me.

I also think NFTs are beginning to expose to people how hollow and valueless cryptocurrency really is. Of course, people are still buying up NFTs like they're candy, so apparently there are enough people who want to own the "original" nyan cat or whatever. I guess I also feel the same way about fine art collecting, and that isn't slowing down either.

Here's also 2 important differences between fiat currency and cryptocurrency - fiat currency can be used to pay taxes, and (more importantly), there's a massive military backing fiat currency (along with the rest of the government). Will governments eventually "print" or otherwise create so much fait currency ex nihilo that the government backing it no longer matters? Maybe, but it'll take a while (though the political class seems to be trying hard to rush this lately).

Maybe I'm a luddite on this one, but it's still a huge pass for me.

-Andrew
+1.
It's blue sky.
It seems more like gold.



But it sure feels like Beanie Babies or Pokemon cards.
Or tulips perhaps.

Our financial advisor bought gold ETFs for our portfolio last year, btw, but already sold them. He didn't mention anything about mining for them.
Last edited by sweetandsour on Tue May 11, 2021 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by DepartedLight » Tue May 11, 2021 7:57 pm

Off Topic
All the gold in Fort Knox has been evacuated by the Off Earth Citizens.
DL Jake

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Del » Wed May 12, 2021 6:09 am

sweetandsour wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 7:12 pm
Del wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 6:23 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:37 pm
adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
The concept of cryptocurrency (as infosec guy I hate that "crypto" has become shorthand for "cryptocurrency," but that horse has left the barn) is very interesting as an example of the potential of blockchain technology. I understand the concepts and technical aspects of it pretty well. I understand the desire and see the compelling points being made by the zealots. I have just stayed the hell away from it like it's investment poison.

Could I have bought in years ago? I was certainly aware of it. I just didn't believe in it as a long-term play back then, and I still don't. I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth. I might even believe that it WILL eventually be an investible asset class instead of a speculative roller coaster, at least once it really gets the backing it needs. Today it's very impractical to actually use cryptocurrency for purchases (other than ransomware and black market items) - it's just being used as a casino bet. Right now, though, investment poison for me.

I also think NFTs are beginning to expose to people how hollow and valueless cryptocurrency really is. Of course, people are still buying up NFTs like they're candy, so apparently there are enough people who want to own the "original" nyan cat or whatever. I guess I also feel the same way about fine art collecting, and that isn't slowing down either.

Here's also 2 important differences between fiat currency and cryptocurrency - fiat currency can be used to pay taxes, and (more importantly), there's a massive military backing fiat currency (along with the rest of the government). Will governments eventually "print" or otherwise create so much fait currency ex nihilo that the government backing it no longer matters? Maybe, but it'll take a while (though the political class seems to be trying hard to rush this lately).

Maybe I'm a luddite on this one, but it's still a huge pass for me.

-Andrew
+1.
It's blue sky.
It seems more like gold.



But it sure feels like Beanie Babies or Pokemon cards.
Or tulips perhaps.

Our financial advisor bought gold ETFs for our portfolio last year, btw, but already sold them. He didn't mention anything about mining for them.
I didn't mean to insult the intelligence of our fellow members, but I don't know how many people know about the tulips.... apart from Calvinism, that is.

I've heard that the market cap for gold ETF's is about ten times the amount of actual gold on hand. There's a multiplier effect involved.....

.... just as banks are permitted to make loans as a multiplier of the actual cash reserves they have on hand. They get to hand out "money" that they don't have, based on your promise to pay it back. This is how fiat money is created -- government and banks create money from nothing and put it in your account. It becomes "money" just as soon as you think it is worth something -- and find someone else who will trade it with you.

Inflation happens when faith meets math.
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Jester » Wed May 12, 2021 6:17 am

DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 7:57 pm
Off Topic
All the gold in Fort Knox has been evacuated by the Off Earth Citizens.
This
FIGHT LAUGH FEAST

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by adauria » Thu May 13, 2021 10:36 am

Del wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 6:23 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:37 pm
adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
The concept of cryptocurrency (as infosec guy I hate that "crypto" has become shorthand for "cryptocurrency," but that horse has left the barn) is very interesting as an example of the potential of blockchain technology. I understand the concepts and technical aspects of it pretty well. I understand the desire and see the compelling points being made by the zealots. I have just stayed the hell away from it like it's investment poison.

Could I have bought in years ago? I was certainly aware of it. I just didn't believe in it as a long-term play back then, and I still don't. I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth. I might even believe that it WILL eventually be an investible asset class instead of a speculative roller coaster, at least once it really gets the backing it needs. Today it's very impractical to actually use cryptocurrency for purchases (other than ransomware and black market items) - it's just being used as a casino bet. Right now, though, investment poison for me.

I also think NFTs are beginning to expose to people how hollow and valueless cryptocurrency really is. Of course, people are still buying up NFTs like they're candy, so apparently there are enough people who want to own the "original" nyan cat or whatever. I guess I also feel the same way about fine art collecting, and that isn't slowing down either.

Here's also 2 important differences between fiat currency and cryptocurrency - fiat currency can be used to pay taxes, and (more importantly), there's a massive military backing fiat currency (along with the rest of the government). Will governments eventually "print" or otherwise create so much fait currency ex nihilo that the government backing it no longer matters? Maybe, but it'll take a while (though the political class seems to be trying hard to rush this lately).

Maybe I'm a luddite on this one, but it's still a huge pass for me.

-Andrew
+1.
It's blue sky.
It seems more like gold.

There's a finite amount of it, and people are willing to assign a value to it and trade value for it.

Or perhaps it like a Gold ETF, traded on the stock market. It is virtual like cryptocurrency, and yet has a fixed number of shares and a market-assigned value (linked to the trading price of real gold). People agree to trade value for it.

But it sure feels like Beanie Babies or Pokemon cards.
The finite amount of bitcoin, e.g., is an artifact built into the system (technically) to ensure they can't just keep mining more of them, thus imparting artificial scarcity. Contrast that with fiat concurrency and, well, that situation really isn't any better where they CAN just keep manufacturing more it.

The artificial scarcity of bitcoin, in my mind anyway, adds to the idea that it's just something a bunch of people are playing along with. It only has value because the zealots believe it does.

-Andrew

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by gaining_age » Thu May 13, 2021 10:49 am

Jester wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 6:17 am
DepartedLight wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 7:57 pm
Off Topic
All the gold in Fort Knox has been evacuated by the Off Earth Citizens.
This
Off Topic
All the gold in California
Is in a bank in the middle of Beverly Hills
In somebody else's name
So if you're dreamin' about California
It don't matter at all where you've played before
California's a brand-new game
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2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by gaining_age » Thu May 13, 2021 10:50 am

adauria wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:36 am
Del wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 6:23 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:37 pm
adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
The concept of cryptocurrency (as infosec guy I hate that "crypto" has become shorthand for "cryptocurrency," but that horse has left the barn) is very interesting as an example of the potential of blockchain technology. I understand the concepts and technical aspects of it pretty well. I understand the desire and see the compelling points being made by the zealots. I have just stayed the hell away from it like it's investment poison.

Could I have bought in years ago? I was certainly aware of it. I just didn't believe in it as a long-term play back then, and I still don't. I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth. I might even believe that it WILL eventually be an investible asset class instead of a speculative roller coaster, at least once it really gets the backing it needs. Today it's very impractical to actually use cryptocurrency for purchases (other than ransomware and black market items) - it's just being used as a casino bet. Right now, though, investment poison for me.

I also think NFTs are beginning to expose to people how hollow and valueless cryptocurrency really is. Of course, people are still buying up NFTs like they're candy, so apparently there are enough people who want to own the "original" nyan cat or whatever. I guess I also feel the same way about fine art collecting, and that isn't slowing down either.

Here's also 2 important differences between fiat currency and cryptocurrency - fiat currency can be used to pay taxes, and (more importantly), there's a massive military backing fiat currency (along with the rest of the government). Will governments eventually "print" or otherwise create so much fait currency ex nihilo that the government backing it no longer matters? Maybe, but it'll take a while (though the political class seems to be trying hard to rush this lately).

Maybe I'm a luddite on this one, but it's still a huge pass for me.

-Andrew
+1.
It's blue sky.
It seems more like gold.

There's a finite amount of it, and people are willing to assign a value to it and trade value for it.

Or perhaps it like a Gold ETF, traded on the stock market. It is virtual like cryptocurrency, and yet has a fixed number of shares and a market-assigned value (linked to the trading price of real gold). People agree to trade value for it.

But it sure feels like Beanie Babies or Pokemon cards.
The finite amount of bitcoin, e.g., is an artifact built into the system (technically) to ensure they can't just keep mining more of them, thus imparting artificial scarcity. Contrast that with fiat concurrency and, well, that situation really isn't any better where they CAN just keep manufacturing more it.

The artificial scarcity of bitcoin, in my mind anyway, adds to the idea that it's just something a bunch of people are playing along with. It only has value because the zealots believe it does.

-Andrew
Ah... but the ones playing also think of it as countably infinitely divisible --- how small a fraction would you like?
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3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Del » Thu May 13, 2021 1:26 pm

Bitcoin PLUNGES 12% After Elon Musk Says Tesla Will Stop Accepting The Coin, Wipes $365 Billion Off Cryptocurrency Market

The issue appears to be the amount of electricity that is consumed by "miners" in their computer processing to locate more bitcoin.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk announced Wednesday that the electronic car company would suspend vehicle purchases with Bitcoin, citing concern over “rapidly increasing use of fossil fuels for Bitcoin mining.”

“Tesla has suspended vehicle purchases using Bitcoin. We are concerned about rapidly increasing use of fossil fuels for Bitcoin mining and transactions, especially coal, which has the worst emissions of any fuel,” wrote Musk.

....

The energy usage of cryptocurrency is not a new concern for environmentalists. As reported by The Daily Wire in February, “According to researchers at Cambridge University, in terms of annual energy consumption, Bitcoin now consumes more power than Argentina, the Netherlands, and the United Arab Emirates, at 121.36 TWh.”

“This surge in electricity consumption aligns with the meteoric rise of Bitcoin’s price, which has increased from $13,748 on November 1 to $46,517.40 on February 9. While much focus has been given to its price, experts are reportedly becoming increasingly alarmed by the ‘sheer level of energy required by so-called miners, which release new coins into circulation,’” reported The Daily Wire, adding, “According to Digiconomist’s Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index, a tool created by data scientist Alex de Vries, Bitcoin now has a ‘carbon footprint comparable to that of New Zealand,’ producing an estimated 36.95 megatons of C02 per year.”
This has always been the "green problem" with electric energy. It takes lots of fossil fuel to produce the electricity.

You know what else uses lots of fossil-powered electricity? -- ELECTRIC CARS.
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Jocose » Fri May 14, 2021 9:27 am

ONE WORD:

DOGE AND SHIBA
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Del » Sat May 15, 2021 6:27 pm

I don't check out Babylon Bee often enough. It's a gold mine!

Biden Proposes $2 Trillion Bill To Study What's Causing Inflation Rates To Rise
WASHINGTON, D.C.—President Biden proposed a $2 trillion spending bill Monday for the purpose of determining the cause of rising inflation. This is Biden’s fourth proposed $2 trillion bill in as many months.

“The cause of inflation is a major concern for all Americans,” Biden told reporters. “Rest assured, your government is committed to spending however much taxpayer money it takes to get to the bottom of this malarkey!”

According to Biden, the cause of the rapid increase in inflation has been baffling his economic experts for weeks. “All we know is that some mysterious event happened around January 20th which caused inflation to skyrocket out of control,” Biden said. “We don’t know what that event was exactly, but we do suspect President Trump was involved somehow. And maybe Russia.”
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Roadmaster » Sun May 16, 2021 7:02 am

adauria wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
I liken it to a ponzi scheme, despite the years of massive growth.
That's where I'm at.

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Roadmaster » Sun May 16, 2021 7:16 am

ChildOfGod wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:26 pm
It’s for fun right now. Could get more real someday. As Warren Buffet says, be “fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful”. This is extremely concise but very wise investing advice. Right now, I’m “fearful” with crypto currency but may pounce on some when it goes low... like real low.
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by sweetandsour » Thu May 20, 2021 9:33 pm

If you got in 2 or 3 weeks ago on Bitcoin, then you're down by ~10% or so right now. But according to at least one recent article, college kids are still going long on it.

college kids and crypto
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Jocose » Fri May 21, 2021 10:13 am

Most are way down, bitcoin is down like 20k since I started looking. I'm hoping Shiba takes off, I bought 9 million for less than 200$ and so far it's down too
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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Jocose » Fri May 21, 2021 8:47 pm

"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

"This thread makes me sad." ~ SlowToke

"The yutz is silly Jocose. I have him foed yet still have to view his stupid and annoying thread titles." ~ Goose55

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Re: Talk to me about crypto!

Post by Del » Sat May 22, 2021 10:02 am

Jocose wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:47 pm
If I had any social media influence and I was invested heavily in something-or-other, I'd be pumping that up too.

But by all means, "do your own research."
G.K. Chesterton — 'It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged.'

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